questions for ReformedTruth

[Calminian]

Rarely do I come across real hyper-calvinists (for lack of a better term). But I do believe I’ve found one.

For example, and I forgot the guy`s name, but does anyone remember that greasy, moley looking little bald guy in Florida they just sent to the chair? I mean the one that just kidnapped an 8 year old girl, raped her in a house trailer for a week, then buried her alive in a garbage bag? Well this all was ordained by the hand of God, every cry of pain from the girl, down to the selection of the brand of bag to bury her in. And if you claim God was just watching that is blasphemy. He directed it. Weak Calvinists can try and skirt it any way they like.

There's questions I've been dying to ask one,and now that I have, I hope he'll answer some of them.

1) Do you believe God causes your sin? When you sin (assuming you believe you sin), is it really God causing you to do so for his good pleasure?

2) Do you consider John Calvin and Charles Spurgeon to be “weak calvinists” since they deny that God is the author of evil?


I’m sure I’ll think of others. Just give me a second.

 

[Calminian]

3) regarding pre-fallen Adam, did God create him with a inclination or even nature that caused him to sin?

4) When God was finished with creation week, and proclaimed that everything was "very good" was He including sin. IOW, was God calling sin "very good?"

more coming...

 

[Calminian]

5) Do you believe God is responsible for the reprobation of men? Generally calvinists and arminians agree in belief that salvation is all of God, and reprobation all of men. They differ on how that logically works itself out, but agree at least in principle. Do you disagree? Do you believe both salvation and reprobation are strictly acts of God?

 

[ReformedTruth]

Rarely do I come across real hyper-calvinists (for lack of a better term). But I do believe I’ve found one.

"Hyper Calvinists" as you call them are just honest enough to take Calvinism to it`s logical conclusion without all the piled high and deep double speak that`s not found in the bible.

There's questions I've been dying to ask one,and now that I have, I hope he'll answer some of them. .

1) Do you believe God causes your sin? When you sin (assuming you believe you sin), is it really God causing you to do so for his good pleasure?

Yes. Wasn`t I clear on that point? "All things" means just that.

2) Do you consider John Calvin and Charles Spurgeon to be “weak calvinists” since they deny that God is the author of evil?


I’m sure I’ll think of others. Just give me a second.

I haven`t read everything they wrote so I can`t comment. I know Calvin did teach double predestination which is a scriptural truth none should shirk from.

 

[ReformedTruth]

5) Do you believe God is responsible for the reprobation of men? Generally calvinists and arminians agree in belief that salvation is all of God, and reprobation all of men. They differ on how that logically works itself out, but agree at least in principle. Do you disagree? Do you believe both salvation and reprobation are strictly acts of God?

Well I answered that in the other post. Don`t listen to these so called "Calvinists" who refuse to fess up to the whole story in order to create a buffer between themselves and the whole truths of scripture. This is done not to offend the sensiblities of carnal men. It`s a ruse. Back to the football game. I may check back here before bed.

 

[justsurfing]

There is no question, in my mind, that all things that happen are absolutely by the sovereign permission or active work of God.Y et, I see all evil as occuring by the sovereign permission of God... not by His active work by His own Spirit.

All that the Holy Spirit does is good. All that Satan does is evil. Yet, God lifts the restraint of the Holy Spirit and evil is permitted to act and occur.

To say that God is sovereign while diluting the term is intellectual dishonesty. God is either completely 100% sovereign... or He is not sovereign at all. Yet, God is completely good. He actively does no evil. Though He most certainly does allow it... for a time.

God bless,

js

 

[Calminian]

There is no question, in my mind, that all things that happen are absolutely by the sovereign permission or active work of God.Y et, I see all evil as occuring by the sovereign permission of God... not by His active work by His own Spirit.

All that the Holy Spirit does is good. All that Satan does is evil. Yet, God lifts the restraint of the Holy Spirit and evil is permitted to act and occur.

To say that God is sovereign while diluting the term is intellectual dishonesty. God is either completely 100% sovereign... or He is not sovereign at all. Yet, God is completely good. He actively does no evil. Though He most certainly does allow it... for a time.

God bless,

js

Care to answer the question directed at RT?

 

[Calminian]

3) regarding pre-fallen Adam, did God create him with a inclination or even nature that caused him to sin?

4) When God was finished with creation week, and proclaimed that everything was "very good" was He including sin. IOW, was God calling sin "very good?"

more coming...

I noticed these questions haven't been answered yet.

 

[ReformedTruth]

I noticed these questions haven't been answered yet.

My position on all your questions was made clear on the other thread, along with scriptural support, all before you started a Watergate of redundancy here with a new thread title. If your do not believe God predestines "all things" including evil then make your case. I`m out of paitence.

 

[justsurfing]

Care to answer the question directed at RT?

My friend,

I'm a Spirit-filled believer who believes God has given me divine authority over Satan... in His sovereignty.. in the name of Jesus.

I'm on a "quest" for full stature in Christ.

I don't get classified, too much, as a "hyper-calvinist".

I spose though, if I look at one way, a truly biblical "hyper-calvinist"... can't help but be "universalist"... cause everything lines up at.. 100%... with God's sovereign perfect, not permissive, will being done sovereignly, perfectly, 100%... at the end.

(How else could it... ???)

I'll answer your questions since you asked.

God bless,

js

​

 

[justsurfing]

1) Do you believe God causes your sin?

No, that would be my sinful nature and Satan at work. But, of course, God lifts restraint and allows it. (short answer).

you sin (assuming you believe you sin), is it really God causing you to do so for his good pleasure?

God only takes good pleasure in that which is good.

2) Do you consider John Calvin and Charles Spurgeon to be “weak calvinists” since they deny that God is the author of evil?

The Bible doesn't say God is the "author" of evil... though God is the Creator of evil.

(It's kind of like "creating" one's opposite... by just removing One's Being/Spirit from the being/spirit of the "opposite".)

It's like dealing with an egg. If the yoke and egg white are perfect together... and, like, if the yoke was removed and the egg became as the result "completely evil"... just for illustration's sake... that's creating evil through removal of the central goodness of the egg.

God is Good.

When He removed Himself from the center of Lucifer... Satan emerged.


Like
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[ReformedTruth]

My friend,​

I'm a Spirit-filled believer who believes God has given me divine authority over Satan... in His sovereignty.. in the name of Jesus.​

I'm on a "quest" for full stature in Christ.​

I don't get classified, too much, as a "hyper-calvinist".​

I spose though, if I look at one way, a truly biblical "hyper-calvinist"... can't help but be "universalist"... cause everything lines up at.. 100%... with God's sovereign perfect, not permissive, will being done sovereignly, perfectly, 100%... at the end.​

(How else could it... ???)​

I'll answer your questions since you asked.​

God bless,​

js​

I`m afraid you misunderstand as God prepares some beforehand as vessels of destruction for his glory. Punishing eternally those he has ordained to be wicked is part and parcel to his own good pleasure which ultimately is his glory and has nothing to do with you. And if you have a problem with this I`d only say, "who are you to reply against God?"

 

[justsurfing]

3) regarding pre-fallen Adam, did God create him with a inclination or even nature that caused him to sin?

I'm giving you my personal point of view... but I will say openly I am OPEN to scriptural correction if anyone can counter me with scripture.

God made "pre-fallen Adam" of the dust of the ground. Adam was good. There was no evil pre-disposition in Adam whatsoever.

However, Jesus said this in the Garden, "Pray. The spirit is willing. The flesh is weak."

Adam's flesh was weak. No inclination or nature to sin.

Weakness of the flesh.

4) When God was finished with creation week, and proclaimed that everything was "very good" was He including sin.

Oh come on, you're being facetious, aren't you?

 

[justsurfing]

5) Do you believe God is responsible for the reprobation of men?

Responsible in what sense?

Did God create them with a specific plan for their lives and pre-determine them to be reprobate? Yes.

Is God responsible for their sin? No.

Generally calvinists and arminians agree in belief that salvation is all of God, and reprobation all of men. They differ on how that logically works itself out, but agree at least in principle. Do you disagree? Do you believe both salvation and reprobation are strictly acts of God?[/

Obviously, I don't believe you are correctly delineating between Calvinism and Arminiasm, imo.

However, salvation is all of God in every sense.

Reprobation is planned by God and certain persons are pre-destined and fated to be reprobate in God's sovereign will and plan.

Yet, they are responsible for their own reprobation... and their wills are not violated in that they choose as God has chosen for them.

 

[justsurfing]

I`m afraid you misunderstand as God prepares some beforehand as vessels of destruction for his glory.

I agree God prepares some beforehand as vessels of destruction. The Bible doesn't say this is for His glory. It says it is to make His wrath and power known.

The vessels of mercy are prepared before hand for mercy and His glory.

eternal punishment

Sorry, I accidentally hit a wrong button and erased some of what you said.

I think it was "eternal punishment" and I typed that back in.

OK.

The Bible doesn't say that.

There is no such thing as "eternal punishment".

(We'd have to do a study of the original Greek to see that sola scripture... and sola scripture is not in errant translation but in pure original form as God spoke it by the Spirit.)

hose he has ordained to be wicked is part and parcel to his own good pleasure

Where in the Bible does it say God created wickedness for His own good pleasure?

I know in Ephesians the Bible says that those who are predestined to salvation in Christ and to the adoption of sons (that includes all who died in Adam - all mankind) God has done for His good pleasure.

The Bible says God takes no pleasure in the death of those who die. God is not sadistic... and doesn't enjoy wickedness in any way shape or form... nor does He take pleasure in the deaths of those who die.

God is good and takes good pleasure only in that which is good.

God is Love. God is Good.

God is 100% Love. God is 100% Good.

which ultimately is his glory

God's glory is revealed in those who are re-created anew in His image in Christ.

The reprobate, on the last day, shall be re-created anew as well as the elect.

Everyone goes to Heaven.

and has nothing to do with you. And if you have a problem with this I`d only say, "who are you to reply against God?"[/

I've accurately stated the sovereign, perfect will of God sola scripture, imo.

I'm not replying against God.

Anyone who protests God turning to have mercy on all, after the complete destruction of evil, actually is the one who is replying against God.

As we both know, the death of Jesus Christ is sufficient to save all men.

God will have mercy on whom He shall have mercy.

The scripture reveals that God has planned and purposed to have mercy on all, "Who are you, oh man, to reply against God."

Jesus Christ hands the kingdom to the Father only after all have been saved... and God is all in all.

God never intended to do anything less than His perfect will... to all.

His plan is revealed in scripture... sola scripture. (The original language He spoke.)

 

[Calminian]

My position on all your questions was made clear on the other thread, along with scriptural support, all before you started a Watergate of redundancy here with a new thread title. If your do not believe God predestines "all things" including evil then make your case. I`m out of paitence.

Why is they they always shy away from those particular questions? They're always fine with saying God created sin, but can't seem to admit that he called sin "very good" at the completion of the creation week. And they seem to have trouble admitting Adam had a sinful nature. I guess even hyper calvinists will only go so far.

 

[Calminian]

My friend,

I'm a Spirit-filled believer who believes God has given me divine authority over Satan... in His sovereignty.. in the name of Jesus.

I'm on a "quest" for full stature in Christ.

I don't get classified, too much, as a "hyper-calvinist".​

Oh no no, don't get me wrong. I didn't believe for a minute you were a hyper-calvinist. In fact, I'm not sure I even like the term, but it seems to fit those who believe they are taking Calvin's logic to a more logical conclusion, if you will. Thus they talk about God, being the author of sin, etc.. At least that's what ReformedTruth has claimed.

Anyway, I just wanted you to feel free to answer, even though the questions were not directed to you initially. I appreciate your input. I really have no problem with traditional classical calvinists. I worship with them every Sunday and share their core beliefs. I just disagree with their logic on some things.

But I definitely disagree with hyper-calvinistic beliefs (until I can come up with a better term) which claim God causes them to sin and similar things of that nature. In fact I'm wondering if they even know the Lord. I’m kind of having fun with this discussion, but on second thought, I’m saddened if this person is holding to a false view of God and therefore a false faith.​

 

[Van]

"Hyper Calvinists" as you call them are just honest enough to take Calvinism to it`s logical conclusion without all the piled high and deep double speak that`s not found in the bible.

A quote for the ages!!!!

Whatsoever comes to pass actually means whatsoever comes to pass. Like a breath of fresh air, RT speaks the truth about the false doctrine of Calvinism.

Did God create Adam with a sinful nature? Nope, that is the result of the fall. But God did create Adam with the capacity to sin, to choose to do other than the command of God, and so when Adam ignored God's word and ate of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, Adam sinned willingly and knowingly.

When God proclaimed His creation very good, He was not saying sin was very good. He was saying His creation was very suitable for His purpose. And the fall, which God arranged, was also for His purpose.

 

[Van]

Hi RT, thankyou for speaking clearly about Calvinism. Calvinism teaches that "God ordains whosoever comes to pass." That does not mean permissive will. That means exhaustive determinism, everything is predetermined by God.

Now I believe this is false doctrine, but it certainly reflects Calvinism truthfully presented.

Thankyou, you are the first Calvinist I have encountered that exhibits integrety. Now I think you are wrong as to your beliefs, but I admire your honesty.

So we agree as to the logical consequences of Calvinism, but we disagree as to whether these doctrines are biblical. So setting aside the shroud of mystery that others seek to cloak their beliefs in lets discuss real Calvinism.

First, I believe the T, the U, the L, and the I of the TULIP are false doctrines. Please pick one of these, and I will demonstrate why I believe the doctine is unbiblical.

 

[Van]

Hi RT, do you agree with this summary of Calvinism? God has ordained whatsoever comes to pass, you were saved or damned from all eternity for all eternity and nothing you can do during your lifetime will alter that foreordained outcome, not praying for yourselves or your loved ones, not reading the Bible to your kids, not anything.