Questions For Darwinists

[Agonaces of Susa]

How come we don't observe any new animals evolving?

How come abiogenesis has never been observed in nature or the laboratory?

How come we don't observe spontaneous generation of life?

 

[FreezBee]

How come we don't observe any new animals evolving?

Sorry, but your question is very unclear.

What evolves is populations (or rather, entire ecosystems), and all populations keep evolving, as long as there is replication going on.

I suppose you mean to ask, whether speciation occurs, and it does (see e.g. here).

How come abiogenesis has never been observed in nature or the laboratory?

What exactly do you mean by 'abiogenesis'?

How come we don't observe spontaneous generation of life?

Because that's probably not possible -- depending on, how spontaneous it has to be.


- FreezBee

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Sorry, but your question is very unclear.

What evolves is populations (or rather, entire ecosystems), and all populations keep evolving, as long as there is replication going on.

I suppose you mean to ask, whether speciation occurs, and it does (see e.g. here).

I'm not asking about speciation since DNA allows for diversity.

I'm asking about new animals.

Like centaurs, chimeras, dragons, etc.

What exactly do you mean by 'abiogenesis'?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Abiogenesis

the supposed spontaneous origination of living organisms directly from lifeless matter

***

Because that's probably not possible -- depending on, how spontaneous it has to be.

I agree abiogenesis is impossible therefore evolution is a pseudoscientific fraud.

 

[FreezBee]

I'm not asking about speciation since DNA allows for diversity.

I'm asking about new animals.

Like centaurs, chimeras, dragons, etc.

*Checking thread title*

The thread title is: "Questions for Darwinists".

What is a 'Darwinist'?

If it is someone who accepts the evidence for (more or less) Darwin's theory of evolution, how is your question relevant?

abiogenesis - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary



***


I agree abiogenesis is impossible therefore evolution is a pseudoscientific fraud.

Abiogenesis -- in the sense of modern animals being spontaneously generated from dirty clothes or such -- is not part of the theory of evolution.

While not stricly a part of the theory of evolution either, there is a variety of hypotheses on the origin of life, but they are all assuming rather long timespans and several stages from biological monomers to cells.


- FreezBee

 

[sbvera13]

How come we don't observe any new animals evolving?

We do.

How come abiogenesis has never been observed in nature or the laboratory?

Same reason we havn't reached the speed of light yet. Emphasis on yet.

How come we don't observe spontaneous generation of life?

The Theory of Evolution states that spontaneous generation is impossible.

Susa: 1
Susa's Strawman: 0
TOE: Uncontested

 

[Wedjat]

Different hypothosized stages of abiogenesis have been reproduced in lab conditions.

As for why we don't see it in nature... well, coincidentally (by which I mean not a coincidence at all) the raw material for new life is also the kind of stuff that would get eaten up in an instant by nearby microorganisms. Also, any new forms of life would be so under evolved that they would be severely disadvantaged by all the surrounding existent life and die out within- minutes actually.
In short, abiogenesis can only occur where there is not currently any life.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

We do.

Name the animal or else withdraw the claim.

The Theory of Evolution states that spontaneous generation is impossible.

If evolution says abiogenesis is impossible then how did life get here? Creationism?

 

[TheBlueBlurr]

Define ''Darwinist''

 

[sbvera13]

If evolution says abiogenesis is impossible then how did life get here? Creationism?

Equivocation fallacy. "Spontaneous Generation" and "Abiogenesis" are not the same thing.

Name the animal or else withdraw the claim.

Speciation Event, Google Scholar: 65,300 hits

Observed Speciation, Google: 1,750,000 hits

Observed Speciation in the Wild, Google: 287,000 hits

Observed Speciation in the Laboratory, Google: 772,000 hits

Would you like more? Out of the million+ options, I'm sure I could find one or two individual animals to name if you want something with Latin in it.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Define ''Darwinist''

Someone who believes in the following: the common descent of all life on Earth from a single ancestor via undirected mutation and natural selection.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

"Spontaneous Generation" and "Abiogenesis" are not the same thing.

Webster's dictionary says otherwise: http://www.christianforums.com/t7429641/#post53849487

Do you claim to know more about definitions than Webster's dictionary?

 

[sbvera13]

I usually use "abiogenesis" as shorthand to refer to "the theory of abiogenesis." It differs from "spontaneous generation" in that the latter has a long history of ideas associated with it, beginning with Aristotle, that have now been disproved. Condensing the two ideas into one sentence definitions may make them appear similar, since they refer to similar subjects, however their common usage (especially here in the science forums) is quite different. Allow me to define them as I use them, taking their historical contexts into consideration.

Spontaneous generation: The sudden appearance of fully-formed organisms out of non-living matter. (this is once how the appearance of mold on food was explained; we now know this to be impossible)

Abiogenesis: The gradual development of nonliving matter into pregressively more complex forms that eventually gain the attribute of self-replication.

ps. I notice you failed to respond to my providing you with sources regarding the evolution of new species. I will consider this a concession.

 

[Washington]

How come we don't observe any new animals evolving?

How come abiogenesis has never been observed in nature or the laboratory?

How come we don't observe spontaneous generation of life?

Obviously your implication here is that if we can't see it happening now it could never have happened in the past.
But I understand where you're coming from. Just like:

How come we don't hear anyone saying, "Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth." A lot of places could use just such help ASAP.

How come no one ain't making any new beasts of the earth after his kind? Some of the old ones are going extinct.

And, How come we never see anyone rising from the dead. Just for fun of course, and not too long after having died please.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Abiogenesis: The gradual development of nonliving matter into pregressively more complex forms that eventually gain the attribute of self-replication.

That has never been observed.

ps. I notice you failed to respond to my providing you with sources regarding the evolution of new species. I will consider this a concession.

I notice you ignored where I said I'm not talking about speciation since DNA allows for all types of diversity within genuses: http://www.christianforums.com/t7429641/#post53849487

I will consider this a concesion on your part.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Obviously your implication here is that if we can't see it happening now it could never have happened in the past.

I'm not gullible enough to believe in uniformitarianism so I would never claim that.

 

[TheBlueBlurr]

Someone who believes in the following: the common descent of all life on Earth from a single ancestor via undirected mutation and natural selection.

I accept evolution but i'm not gonna call myself a darwinist or evolutionist. It's just stupid.

Stop with the labels

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

I accept evolution but i'm not gonna call myself a darwinist or evolutionist. It's just stupid.

Stop with the labels

Forgive me for calling a spade a spade.

What should I call people who believe in Darwinism if not Darwinists?

 

[TheBlueBlurr]

I don't think there's any one whom believes in Darwinism here.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

I don't think there's any one whom believes in Darwinism here.

Great! I guess we're all happy then.

 

[Freysinn]

Great! I guess we're all happy then.

I think a majority of this forum accepts evolution as a fact. But do not they actually consider themself "darwinist" as much as someone would consider themself a "newtonianist" for accpeting his laws of motion.