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Questions for Bible2

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by ThomasGuthler, May 21, 2014.

  1. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Thank you for saving, and for re-posting, these old entries.

    Based on parts of them, I hope to add a new blog entry under *Josh. 15:8, add a new (last) section under *Mk. 16:16 and *Rom. 14:13, and make additions to *Heb. 10:25 and *Rev. chs. 2-3.

    -

    Thank you for helping me to make these additions to the blog.
     
  2. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

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    These are entries on the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD, maybe there are some more scriptures which could include reference to 70 AD?


    "70 AD could have been a part of Matthew 21:41, it's the exact opposite of Zechariah 14:3-21, where Jerusalem is saved.

    Luke 23:30 can include reference to the fall of Jerusalem in 70 AD (Luke 23:28-30)."

    --

    Some more entries for review:



    Salvation in the Millennium?

    http://www.christianforums.com/threads/salvation-in-the-millennium.7294663/#post-49005163

    --

    In application to pre-post, John 8:32 would mean that knowing the post-trib truth will make one free of something, which could be fear of the tribulation. For the post-trib view requires that one face one's fear of the tribulation head-on and overcome it (cf. Revelation 2:10), while the pre-trib view allows one to merely attempt to smother it with a false hope of a pre-trib rapture, while the fear continues to fester in one's subconscious nonetheless (cf. Hebrews 2:15).

    "And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." (Hebrews 2:15)

    Of course, the benefit of knowing the post-trib truth can be short-circuited by those who think that God must protect them perfectly during the tribulation; this false hope of mandatory miraculous protection is no less an attempt to smother one's fear of the tribulation than the false hope of a pre-trib rapture.

    Letting the post-trib truth "sink in" is the perfect image of what we must let happen, for those who refuse the post-trib truth and hold onto the pre-trib false hope could be like those who, even though they love the Word of God, they "have no root in themselves", and so will become "offended" in tribulation (Matthew 13:20-21, 24:9-10), possibly even to the point of apostasy (Isaiah 8:21-22; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Thessalonians 2:3).

    Just as it takes time for the root of a plant to grow, as it has to gradually work its way down through the soil and stones, so it takes time for the post-trib truth to work its way down through the fears and worries of our souls, and replace them with a root of fearlessness and courage and determination, so that we might endure the coming tribulation with patience and faith unto the end (Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13).

    Many who hold the pre-trib view, especially those who do so out of the utmost fear (whether they realize it or not), could very well be horribly blindsided when they realize there isn't going to be a pre-trib rapture, that they are in the tribulation and will have to suffer through all of it. They could totally freak out and their faith could completely fail.

    But nothing requires that this has to happen to someone just because they hold to the pre-trib view. There will no doubt be very many who hold to the pre-trib view who will do just fine in the tribulation; they will simply think "Oh, well. I guess I read it wrong. No big deal. The Church has always had to suffer tribulation. May God see me through this", and they will knuckle down and endure the tribulation with patience and faith unto the end.

    They could even put some who held to the post-trib view to shame, for some who held to the post-trib view could falter in their faith during the long suffering of the tribulation, despite all their warnings to those who held to the pre-trib view (cf. Job 4:3-5).

    --

    Predestination in the sense of Ephesians 1:5 refers only to the elect being predestined to initial salvation. Predestination in the sense of Isaiah 46:10-11 includes every action by every person, both elect and unelect.

    ~

    In Jeremiah 31:1-7, "the remnant of Israel" is the very small remnant of genetic Israel which will be saved (Isaiah 1:8-9, Romans 9:27-29). While spiritual Israel, the elect, is the only Israel God has ever loved (Romans 9:11-13), the elect includes a remnant of genetic Israel (Romans 9:27) as well as some Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

    Jeremiah 31:1-7 by itself (like Romans 11:28b by itself) is referring only to God's love for the elect remnant of genetic Israel which will be saved (Isaiah 1:8-9, Romans 9:27-29). Other passages such as Romans 9:11-13,24 refer to God's love for all of the elect, both Jews and Gentiles.

    The remnant of Israel in Jeremiah 31:1-7 is the very small remnant of genetic Israel which will be saved (Isaiah 1:8-9, Romans 9:27-29). There is also a spiritual Israel which is different than genetic Israel (Romans 9:3-8). Spiritual Israel consists of all of the elect (Romans 9:11-13), both Jews and Gentiles (Romans 9:24).

    ~

    The elect are already the good seed (those created to be vessels of God's mercy) even before Jesus sows them into the world, even before they are born, just as the unelect are already the tares (those created to be vessels of God's wrath) even before Satan sows them into the world, even before they are born:

    "37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels." (Matthew 13:37-39)

    ~

    John 12:46 means that Christ will draw all manner of men to himself (cf. Acts 10:12,28), not all men, for not all men are the good seed sown by Christ (Matthew 13:37-43).

    ~

    While Paul quotes Deuteronomy 32:21 in Romans 10:19, and the jealousy of the blinded elect Israelites of 40-65 AD would be included in Romans 11:11, this in no way means that the fullness of the Gentiles and the second coming had to occur at that time. For the Antichrist still has to commit the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36, 2 Thessalonians 2:4) before the second coming can occur (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, Matthew 24:15-31).

    ~

    Romans 11:23 means that elect Israelites cut off by unbelief will be grafted back in when they come into belief.

    ~

    "The election" in Romans 11:28 is referring back to the "election" in Romans 9:11-23, in which some people were elected [before they were born] to become saved vessels of mercy instead of unsaved vessels of wrath.

    While the unbelieving elect people referred to in Romans 11:28 are Jews only (Romans 11:25-28), the principle in Romans 11:28 would be the same for elect Gentiles: all elect people are elect even before they believe in Jesus, even while they are still enemies of the gospel, for all elect people were elected even before they were born (Romans 9:11).

    ~

    The present tenses in Romans 11:28-32 simply mean that there were blinded unsaved elect Jews (Romans 11:25,28) alive at the time the book of Romans was written in the first century.

    Even though it doesn't use any future tenses, Romans 11:28-32 still necessitates a future obtaining of mercy (Romans 11:31b,32b) of some of the blinded part of the unsaved elect Jews who are enemies of the gospel (Romans 11:28) and in unbelief (Romans 11:31). The Textus Receptus doesn't say "NOW obtain mercy" in Romans 11:31, and neither would Paul the apostle have said that in his original manuscript, after stating the conditions which will have to be met in the future before some of the blinded part of the unsaved elect Jews can get saved (Romans 11:25-26).

    ~

    Ephesians 1:4 doesn't mean that those predestined were actually already in Christ before the foundation of the world, for they did not even exist before the foundation of the world. Instead, Ephesians 1:4 means that those predestined before the foundation of the world were predestined in the anticipation that they would be brought into Christ sometime subsequent to their being born. Romans 16:7b shows that people actually come into Christ only when they become believers.

    Believers are in the context of Ephesians 1:4-6 insofar as only believers are being referred to as "us" and "we" in that passage (Ephesians 1:1,13,15,19).

    ~

    Ephesians 1:11b doesn't take away man's free will; it only shows that God does everything that He wants to do.

    No scripture says that God alone has a sovereign will in the sense of Him being free to make His own choices. Man also is free to make his own choices (e.g. Deuteronomy 23:16).

    ~

    Ephesians 1:13 doesn't say that any of Adam's offspring can become the elect, for not all people are elect (Romans 9:11-22). And so not all people can trust in the Lord Jesus Christ (John 6:65, Ephesians 2:8, Acts 13:48b).

    Actually, any of Adam's offspring who hear the gospel and then trust in Christ were already the children of promise. For those who are not the children of promise, but are the children of Satan, never trust in Christ even after hearing the gospel (John 8:42-47).

    After people who are of God are granted faith, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit, for "after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise" (Ephesians 1:13).

    ~

    "All men have not faith" (2 Thessalonians 3:2) because God has not given to all men his miraculous gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8, John 6:65, 1 Corinthians 3:5, Acts 13:48). And even among those who have been given faith, some have been given more "talents" than others (Matthew 25:15). All those who have been given faith do not prophesy, or work miracles, or have gifts of healing, or speak in tongues, or interpret tongues (1 Corinthians 12:29-30), because not all those who have been given faith are given the same gifts of the Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:4-30), and some gifts are greater than others (1 Corinthians 14:5; 1 Corinthians 12:31).

    Man being created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26) doesn't mean that God has given to every man the same things. While all men are the same in their essence (Acts 17:26), God does give more to some men than to others.

    ~

    1 Peter 1:2 doesn't say that the elect can't be unbelievers before they get saved. The original Greek of 1 Peter 1:1-2 can be translated as "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect sojourners scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia and Bithynia. According to the foreknowledge of God the Father in sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ, grace unto you and peace be multiplied".

    Quote: „Here is the scriptural definition of "elect"...

    1 Peter 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied."

    A: Actually, in 1 Peter 1:2, it's "according to the foreknowledge [or forethought] of God the Father" and "Grace unto you" that come closer to defining the word "elect" in itself. For in 1 Peter 1:2, the original Greek word translated as "elect" is "eklektos", which means "chosen": "ye are a chosen (eklektos) generation" (1 Peter 2:9). And elect humans are those humans who were chosen by God before the foundation of the world to become saved: "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love" (Ephesians 1:4). It is the unelect "whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world" (Revelation 17:8).

    --

    The time after the white throne judgement (Revelation 20:11-15) will be the time of the new earth, when the New Jerusalem will descend out of heaven so that God might live with us down on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-3). So if Paul had gone to that time, he would have referred to it as the new earth, not the third heaven.

    Actually, the third heaven is a past, present, and future place, just as paradise is past, present, and future place. That's why Jesus could say to someone who was about to die in the first century:

    "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43).

    The third heaven today is where it was in the past and where it will be in the future, just as the first and second heavens today are where they were in the past and where they will be in the future.

    The Hebrew word translated as "heaven" in Genesis 1:20, which refers to the atmosphere, is the same Hebrew word translated as "heaven" in Ecclesiastes 5:2, which refers to the place where God is, the spiritual realm (Revelation 4:2), the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2b); just as the same Hebrew word is used to refer to outer space, where the stars reside (Genesis 26:4). So the same Hebrew word refers to all three levels of heaven which all exist at the same time.

    The same is true in the Greek. The Greek word translated as "air" in Matthew 6:26, which refers to the atmosphere, is the same Hebrew word translated as "heaven" in Matthew 5:45, which refers to the place where God is, the spiritual realm (Revelation 4:2), the third heaven (2 Corinthians 12:2b); just as the same Greek word is used to refer to outer space, where the stars reside (Matthew 24:29). So the same Greek word refers to all three levels of heaven which all exist at the same time.

    Any age before the foundation of this age would have also contained three heavens, if the earth and its atmosphere existed before the foundation of this particular age.

    Every translation-reference to "foundation of the world" in the KJV Bible (Matthew 13:35, 25:34, Luke 11:50, John 17:24, Ephesians 1:4, Hebrews 4:3, 9:26, 1 Peter 1:20, Revelation 13:8, 17:8) is based on the original Greek word "kosmos" (Strongs #2889), which doesn't mean "age", but could include the entire Creation, the earth and all three heavens. So a reference to "before the foundation of the kosmos" could mean before God created anything at all, even heaven itself (Genesis 1:1).

    The new heaven and earth could mean a brand new surface to the earth and a brand new atmosphere, or first heaven, to the earth, while the second heaven, outer space, remains unrenewed, and the third heaven, the place of God's throne, needs no renewal.

    Three levels of heaven aren't sci-fi fantasy, for even real science divides between the atmosphere (the first heaven) and outer space (the second heaven), and, although it's not proven, non-fictional science (String Theory, based on mathematics) postulates more than three spatial dimensions to this universe. The third heaven is the spiritual realm where God's throne is (Revelation 4:2, 2 Corinthians 12:2), and this realm could exist in three higher spatial dimensions, so that the Creation, including the spiritual realm, could consist of at least seven dimensions: six spatial dimensions (three physical and three spiritual) and one temporal dimension.

    And this is a conservative number of dimensions, for String Theory posits that there could be something like eleven dimensions to this universe.

    So the third heaven could very well be in higher spatial dimensions. And it could be in our same temporal dimension, so that the third heaven has existed in our past, exists in our present, and will exist in our future. Nothing requires that the third heaven will only exist in some future age.

    The second heaven (outer space, the physical universe) could have been created some 10 billion years before the first heaven (the earth's atmosphere) was created when God created the planet earth some five billion years ago. And the third heaven (the created spiritual realm) could have existed for untold ages before the creation of the physical universe some fifteen billion years ago. So there could have been two higher levels of heaven for billions of years before the lowest level was created with the planet earth.

    The first heaven, the earth's atmosphere, will be destroyed at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11) and replaced when a new earth is created (Revelation 21:1). But the second heaven, outer space, could continue unchanged at the great white throne judgment and then for billions of years after that, until God eventually decides to create a new universe. Even science admits that this universe will eventually die: it will get so spread out and cold and dark that nothing will survive, and then even the protons making up all atoms will eventually decay away, so that there will be nothing but empty, cold blackness forever. Of course, God won't have to wait that long to roll up this dying (entropic) universe and replace it with a brand new one. He could do that long before it reaches a completely decrepit state, in which physical life will no longer be possible.

    And He may never have to replace the third heaven, the created spiritual realm. It could remain unchanged through entire series of future physical universes, for untold trillions and trillions of years, just as it could have existed in the past for untold trillions and trillions of years, through entire series of past physical universes, before the one we're in now.

    So the second and third heavens need have no connection at all with earth ages, just as the first heaven could continue through various different ages on the earth, such as the current age and the millennial age, and then be renewed at the start of the new-earth age.

    --

    In Daniel 8:9, the pleasant land is Israel (Zechariah 7:14, Psalms 106:24).

    The Antichrist may not be physically attractive at all, for he will have a "fierce" countenance (Daniel 8:23).

    ~

    The Bible does say that the Antichrist is someone "to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom" (Daniel 11:21).

    Daniel 11:21 would be in line with some Arab, say from Lebanon, being given control of a Baathist confederation of Iraq, Syria (including "Palestine", i.e. a defeated Israel), and Egypt. His not being given the "honor of the kingdom" could simply mean that he will be given only pro tempore control, until, say "proper elections can be held".

    That he will "obtain the kingdom by flatteries" could mean that he will obtain control by huge bribes paid to the generals.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2015
  3. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Thank you for saving, and for re-posting, these old entries.

    Based on parts of them, I hope to make additions to the blog entry under *Isa. 66:19, and add a section to *Dan. 8:9 and *Dan. 8:23.

    Also, I hope to add a new entry under *Jn. 8:32, make an addition to the last paragraph of section 1 under *Rom. 11:25, and make additions to section 2 under *2 Cor. 12:2.

    -

    Thank you for helping me to make these additions to the blog.
     
  4. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

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    Some more posts for review:



    The apostles Peter and Paul, and the first-century church of Smyrna could have quoted Psalms 91 ...

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...mething-to-prove.7238401/page-2#post-47242960

    --

    "The day of Jesus Christ" (Philippians 1:6) and "the day of Christ" (Philippians 2:16; 2 Thessalonians 2:2) are the same as "the day of the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 5:2; 2 Peter 3:10) and "the day of God" (2 Peter 3:12) and "the day of wrath" (Romans 2:5), for the day of the Lord is "the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 1:8) and He is God (John 1:1,14) and He will bring wrath: "He treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God" (Revelation 19:15).



    "Christ" means anointed.

    "Lord" means supreme in authority.

    "Jesus" means YHWH saves.

    "God" means the Deity.

    The Christ is Jesus (John 4:25-26).

    The Lord is Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31).

    Jesus Christ the Lord is God (John 20:28).

    So the day of Christ (Philippians 2:16) is the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6).

    And the day of Jesus Christ (Philippians 1:6) is the day of the Lord (2 Thessalonians 2:2, original Greek).

    And the day of the Lord (2 Thessalonians 2:2, original Greek) is the the day of the Lord Jesus (1 Corinthians 5:5).

    And the day of the Lord Jesus (2 Corinthians 1:14) is the day of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:8).

    And the day of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 1:8) is the day of God (Revelation 16:14).

    So all of these days are the same day. It will begin at the second coming (1 Corinthians 1:7-8), immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31).

    "Waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 1:7-8).

    "The day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night" (1 Thessalonians 5:2).

    This is referring to the second coming:

    "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame" (Revelation 16:15).

    This is spoken after the sixth vial, at the very end of the tribulation, for the second coming and rapture won't be until after the tribulation:

    "Immediately after the tribulation ... they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect" (Matthew 24:29-31).

    "The coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him" (2 Thessalonians 2:1).

    "We which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air" (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

    The burning up of the earth referred to by 2 Peter 3:10 will happen at the end of the day of the Lord, which will include the entire millennium, for a thousand years to God is as one day:

    "Beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day" (2 Peter 3:8).

    The day of the Lord and the day of Christ are the same day, "the day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 1:8), which will begin with the second coming and rapture, after the tribulation.

    The day of the Lord and the day of God are the same day, the day in which the heavens and the earth will be destroyed:

    "The day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness" (2 Peter 3:10-13).

    While the Trinity is still three different Persons, "God, Lord, Christ" can still mean the same thing when referring to "the day of" God, Lord, Christ, just as Jesus Himself can be referred to as either God or Lord or Christ:

    "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

    "The glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).

    "The day of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 1:8).

    ~

    At Jesus Christ's appearing to the Church (Titus 2:13), after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31) of Revelation chapters 6-18, the Antichrist will be destroyed (2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20). The same Greek word translated as "appearing" in Titus 2:13 is translated as "brightness" in 2 Thessalonians 2:8.

    --

    In the past, citizens of the ancient Roman Empire (including the apostle Paul) were executed by being beheaded, and the French beheaded people during their revolution a la the guillotine. Today the Muslims are known for beheading people, not only in terrorist videos, but as a routine form of capital punishment in Saudi Arabia. (Beheading is actually the most literal form of "capital" punishment, in that "capital" is from the Latin "caput", which means "head".)

    The beheading of Christians by the Antichrist (Revelation 20:4) doesn't have to be based on the Babylonian Talmud, nor will it be for violation of the Noahide Laws punishable by beheading (according to the Talmud), for the Antichrist could be an Arab who will come out of Tyre, Lebanon (Ezekiel 28:2, cf. 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and the Arabs have always beheaded people [and so could employ the Arab method of beheading with a sword, as opposed to using a guillotine]. And the Antichrist will behead people for the witness of Jesus, for the word of God, for not worshipping him or his image, or receiving his mark upon their foreheads or their hands (Revelation 20:4).

    If the blade is nice and sharp so that it's quick, beheading is a good way to die. That's why the Romans reserved it for their citizens (like Paul the apostle) who were condemned to death, while they tortured non-citizens (like Jesus and Peter the apostle) to death by, for example, nailing them to crosses to suffer a long, slow, agonizingly painful death.

    While beheading has been going on for some time (e.g. 1 Samuel 17:51,54, 31:9, 2 Samuel 4:7, 20:22, Matthew 14:10), the beheading of Christians by the Antichrist because of their preaching of Jesus Christ and the Bible, and because of their refusal to worship the Antichrist or his image, or receive his mark on their foreheads or hands (Revelation 20:4, cf. 13:4-18), hasn't started yet.

    We Christians need to be prepared to see the beheadings which the Antichrist will perform in the future (Revelation 20:4b). We need to be prepared to see our loved ones beheaded; we need to be prepared to face the beheading sword ourselves; we need to be able to face all the coming horror of the tribulation with patience and faith unto the end (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13).

    --

    Actually, those who "shake their fist" at God and stand against Him won't necessarily have any torment in this life, although they will certainly have torment after it. For Job 15:20-26 was just one person's opinion (Eliphaz the Temanite's, Job 15:1), which Job subsequently refuted:

    "Wherefore do the wicked live, become old, yea, are mighty in power? Their seed is established in their sight with them, and their offspring before their eyes. Their houses are safe from fear, neither is the rod of God upon them. Their bull gendereth, and faileth not; their cow calveth, and casteth not her calf. They send forth their little ones like a flock, and their children dance. They take the timbrel and harp, and rejoice at the sound of the organ. They spend their days in wealth, and in a moment go down to the grave. Therefore they say unto God, Depart from us; for we desire not the knowledge of thy ways. What is the Almighty, that we should serve him? and what profit should we have, if we pray unto him? (Job 21:7-15).

    This is precisely why so many people remain wicked: they see no repercussions from being wicked, but only wealth and pleasures, and so see no reason to stop being wicked and start following God:

    "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil" (Ecclesiastes 8:11).

    It is by the fear of God, the fear that after this life He will cast them into hell, that people depart from wickedness:

    "... by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil" (Proverbs 16:6).

    "The fear of the LORD is a fountain of life, to depart from the snares of death" (Proverbs 14:27).

    "Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil" (Proverbs 3:7).

    "... fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28).

    "Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him" (Luke 12:5).

    All Spirit-filled believers should have the fear of God (Romans 11:20-22, Hebrews 12:28, Acts 9:31, Matthew 10:28, Luke 12:5, 1 Peter 1:17, 2:17, Revelation 14:6-7).

    Spirit-filled believers can lose their fear of God when they see unrepentant sinners "living it up" without any punishment from God (Ecclesiastes 8:11).

    A lack of punishment from God for unrepentant sin means that one isn't loved by Jesus (Revelation 3:19, Hebrews 12:6-11).

    What can cause Spirit-filled believers to continue in unrepentant sin is a lack of a love for Jesus (John 14:24). Their love can grow cold because of the increase of wickedness in the world (Matthew 24:12).

    Even Spirit-filled believers can reach a point where they've continued in an unrepentant sin for so long that their conscience has become seared as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2b), so that they no longer feel any guilt over their sin.

    To remedy this situation, they can read the Bible and receive what it says as the truth (James 1:21); it will then reveal to them the sinful state of their hearts (Hebrews 4:12).

    It's possible for Spirit-filled believers to overcome sin by the Holy Spirit within them (Romans 8:13, John 8:34,36, 1 John 3:5-10).

    Believers must never trust their own hearts to tell them if something is wrong or not, for "He that trusteth in his own heart is a fool" (Proverbs 28:26); and "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (Jeremiah 17:9).

    Believers must never reject the sound doctrine of the Bible in order to follow other, demonic teachings which support them in their lusts, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

    --

    We should be completely free from all fear of actual, physical death: "deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage" (Hebrews 2:15).

    For if we die faithfully, our death will only bring us into the presence of Jesus Himself in heaven: "to live is Christ, and to die is gain ... having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better" (Philippians 1:21,23).

    "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:8).

    For "we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal" (2 Corinthians 4:18).

    And it is for this reason that we can face suffering and actual, physical death with courage, knowing that they are just temporary, and that if we suffer and die faithfully we will receive eternal rewards:

    "For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory" (2 Corinthians 4:17).

    Believers should never desire to prolong their lives for their own sake, for "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal" (John 12:25). "They loved not their lives unto the death" (Revelation 12:11). "Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:34-36).

    But, at the same time, believers should never do anything which unnecessarily shortens their lives, such as committing suicide, fasting to death, etc., for believers have no right to harm themselves in any way: they are wholly God's property: "ye are not your own... For ye are bought with a price" (1 Corinthians 6:19-20).

    At the same time we must, even today, as one said, "die to this life" in the sense of some verses one quoted: "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God" (Colossians 3:3).

    "He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it" (Matthew 10:39).

    Once one claims to be a follower of Jesus Christ, one can no longer keep to one's old life, in which one may have wanted to make money and accumulate "stuff" in this world:

    "Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth" (Luke 12:15).

    "Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" (Mark 8:34-36).

    "He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be" (John 12:25-26).

    "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon" (Matthew 6:24).

    "So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple" (Luke 14:33).

    --

    Nothing about Revelation 11:6 requires that people won't do any building (Luke 17:28) during the time of the two witnesses.

    People will still have to eat and drink (Luke 17:28) during the time of the two witnesses.

    The way that people plant (Luke 17:28) when there's no rain (Revelation 11:6) is by irrigation (Deuteronomy 11:10-11).

    Nothing about the two witnesses tormenting the people of the world (Revelation 11:10) requires that they won't be planting, building, eating, drinking, etc. (Luke 17:27-28) during that time, or after that time while the two witnesses are lying dead in the street (Revelation 11:8-10), or after the two witnesses have resurrected and ascended into heaven and there are 75 more days until the second coming (Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15).

    ~

    Note that in Revelation 11:3-4 each of the two witnesses can be represented by one olive tree and one candlestick at the same time, just as, for example, Jesus can be represented by both a lion and a lamb at the same time (Revelation 5:5-6).

    Just because a symbol represents one thing in one instance in scripture doesn't mean that it has to represent the same thing in every other instance in scripture. For example, while a lion represents Satan in 1 Peter 5:8, it represents Jesus in Revelation 5:5.

    Even in Revelation, the same symbol can represent different things at different times. For example, while the "lamb" in Revelation 5:6 is Jesus, the "lamb" much later in Revelation 13:11 is the False Prophet.

    Similarly, just because the seven "candlesticks" in Revelation 1:20 were seven first-century local church congregations in seven cities in the Roman province in "Asia" (Revelation 1:11), this in no way requires that the two "candlesticks" seen seen much later in Revelation 11:4 (during the coming tribulation) have to be two first-century local church congregations in two cities in the Roman province in "Asia". Instead, the two "candlesticks" in Revelation 11:4 can simply be two individual men.

    --

    Eternal death is a fair and just judgment, for the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), and all of the unsaved are sinners (Romans 3:23). This is not to say that the saved aren't sinners as well, or any better than the unsaved (Romans 3:9-12), but the saved are saved wholly by God's mercy (Titus 3:3-5), meaning that the saved don't receive the fair and just judgment for their sins, like the unsaved will.

    The ultimate penalty for sin is eternal torment, which will take place in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10,15, 14:10-11). The torment will actually take place in the presence of God (Revelation 14:10b) insofar as he is omnipresent (Psalms 139:8). But the unsaved in the lake of fire will still be separated from God (Matthew 25:41,46) in the sense that God lives in New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:2-3) and the lake of fire will be outside the walls of New Jerusalem (Revelation 21:14-15, 21:8) on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-2).

    The punishment of the unsaved will be just as eternal as the life of the saved (Matthew 25:46). The torment of the unsaved in God's wrath will be just as forever and ever (Revelation 14:10-11) as the life of God Himself (Revelation 15:7b).

    The fate of the unsaved is simply called by different terms, such as everlasting destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), or everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46), or torment for ever and ever in fire and brimstone (Revelation 14:10-11), which will occur in the lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:10,15, Matthew 25:41,46), which is the second death (Revelation 21:8).

    The unsaved are already spiritually dead (1 John 5:12). For the scriptures themselves state quite emphatically that unbelievers do not have life (1 John 5:12-13) and will not see life (John 3:36). Unbelievers have always been and will always be spiritually separated from Christ, for only believers become spiritually reconciled to God (Romans 3:25). God can have a spiritual relationship with spiritually dead people after they become baptized and are restored [from death] to spiritual life (Romans 6:3-11).

    Believers are not spiritually raised to immortality until they have been water-immersion baptized (Romans 6:3-11), and they will not be physically raised to immortality until the second coming of Jesus (1 Corinthians 15:23,52-53). Unbelievers will never be raised to spiritual or physical immortality, but will be raised only to damnation (John 5:29) and the second death (Revelation 20:15, 21:8).

    No man except Jesus has received the victory over physical death; that's why all men still physically die. And only the church will receive the victory over physical death at Jesus' second coming (1 Corinthians 15:23,52-55).

    While both the saved and the unsaved will be physically resurrected from physical death (1 Corinthians 15:22), the unsaved will be physically resurrected from the first physical death only to be cast into the second physical death (Revelation 20:13,15, 21:8, Mark 9:44).

    The resurrected unsaved may have physical life while they stand at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-13), but at the end of that judgment they will be cast into the second death (Revelation 20:15, 21:8).

    The second death (Revelation 21:8) will be a second physical death which the unsaved will suffer forever (Mark 9:44) after being physically resurrected (Revelation 20:13,15).

    The unsaved will not be immortal, for they will eternally exist only in the second death (Revelation 21:8), and the immortal are not subject to death [being immortal means not being subject to death]. An eternally existing death-state is an eternal existence which is not immortality. The unsaved will have an eternal mortal existence.

    No one who was immortal, by definition, could suffer the second death; so the unsaved in the second death will not be immortal, even though they will have an eternal existence, in torment.

    All men will have an eternal existence, but not all men will have eternal life, for the eternal existence of the unelect will be in the second death [an eternal conscious dying]: eternal torment with the devil in the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10,15, 14:10-11, Matthew 25:41,46).

    The second death will be a physical separation, for the lake of fire will be physically outside the walls of New Jerusalem on the new earth (Revelation 22:15, 21:8, 21:1-3). The unsaved were never spiritually alive (Ephesians 2:1) or spiritually connected to God (Ephesians 4:18), so the second death does not refer to their already-existing spiritual death-state or already-existing spiritual separation from God, but to the eternal torment of their resurrected physical bodies by fire and brimstone and maggots (Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:44).

    Unsaved souls will be tormented as they will be trapped within eternally-existing physical bodies which will be forever eaten by maggots and burned by fire (Mark 9:44). This state is the second physical death (Revelation 21:8) [the lake of fire is the second death], which is different than the first physical death in that the soul will not depart from the body in the second physical death, as the soul departs from the body in the first physical death.

    Dead bodies currently do not experience pain, because in the first death the soul departs from the body to go either into Hades to be tormented (Luke 16:23) or into heaven to be with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23). In the second death, however, dead bodies will experience pain because the souls of the unsaved will not depart from their dead bodies; they will be trapped and tormented in their dead bodies as they are eaten by maggots and burned by fire forever (Mark 9:44, Revelation 14:10-11).

    --

    Those in the early Church who spoke in Greek used the Greek word hades to refer to the Hebrew sheol:

    Psalms 16:10 ... thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [sheol] ...

    Acts 2:27 ... thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [hades] ...

    Matthew 16:18 ... I will build my church; and the gates of hell [hades] shall not prevail against it.

    Actually, Hades is a real place, the tormenting part of which is reserved for those souls which are in the condition of not being saved. The criterion for the category of the damned is unrepentant disobedience to God (Romans 2:5-7).

    The torment of the unsaved souls in Hades could come mainly from the fires, but also from the mental grief and anguish that they are unsaved, with no hope of ever getting saved, for they did not believe in Jesus and repent from their sins before they died (Hebrews 10:26-29, Luke 13:3, John 8:24; 1 John 5:16, James 5:20, Romans 2:5-8).

    There is indeed no flesh in Hades, the temporary hell in which the souls of the unsaved are tormented in fire (Luke 16:22-24). But there will be flesh in Gehenna, also called the lake of fire, the eternal hell in which both the souls and the resurrected bodies of the unsaved (John 5:29b, Revelation 20:12-15) will be tormented in fire forever (Mark 9:45-46, Isaiah 66:24, Revelation 14:10-11, 20:10,15, 21:8, Matthew 25:41,46).

    The fires of Hades nonetheless cause pain to the souls of the unsaved there (Luke 16:22-24). So the fires of Gehenna, the lake of fire, could do the same thing, as well as causing physical pain to the resurrected bodies of the unsaved (Isaiah 66:24, Mark 9:45-46, Revelation 14:10-11, 20:10,15, 21:8, Matthew 25:41,46).

    While no scriptures speak explicitly of the smell of burning flesh in hell, there are scriptures which refer to bodies in the eternal hell (Gehenna, the lake of fire) which are forever marred by being eaten by maggots and burned by fire:

    "... fear him which is able to destroy [mar] both soul and body in hell [geenna]" (Matthew 10:28).

    "... cast into hell [geenna], into the fire that never shall be quenched: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched" (Mark 9:45-46).

    "... they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh" (Isaiah 66:24).

    "... the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).

    "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever ... And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:10,15).

    "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment" (Matthew 25:41,46).

    "The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night" (Revelation 14:10-11).

    What needs to be remembered is that even the unsaved who will end up in the eternal hell will be resurrected into bodies before they are judged and cast into the eternal hell:

    "... the resurrection of damnation" (John 5:29).

    "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell [hades] delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell [hades] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:12-15).

    The resurrection-bodies of the unsaved will be flesh, just as the resurrection-body of Jesus is flesh and the resurrection-bodies of the saved will be flesh:

    "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have" (Luke 24:39).

    "... Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body" (Philippians 3:20-21).

    Our current fleshly bodies are vile in the sense that they are corruptible, while resurrection-bodies are glorious in the sense that they are incorruptible:

    "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption" (1 Corinthians 15:42).

    This means that resurrection-bodies are able to restore themselves no matter what happens to them. This will be a great blessing to obedient Christians during the millennium and new earth, for if they have some accident, such as breaking their leg or having their hand chopped off, their body will rapidly restore itself with no problem. But this same quality of rapid restoration will be awful for the unsaved in the lake of fire, for as soon as maggots eat up a part of their flesh, their flesh will restore itself, and then their flesh will be eaten by maggots again, restored again, eaten again, and so on for eternity.

    --

    The whole purpose of Creation is God's pleasure (Revelation 4:11). If it is his pleasure to create some people so that through them he will have the opportunity to eternally show his wrath and make his power known (Romans 9:21-22), who is man to answer back to God (Romans 9:20), or to claim that that is not really what God wants to do (Jeremiah 23:17-29)?

    God wants pleasure because it feels good, just as we want pleasure because it feels good (Psalms 36:8).

    What is pleasurable to God (Revelation 4:11) about showing his wrath and making his power known (Romans 9:22) is the pleasure of self-expression, like the pleasure we humans take in expressing our good qualities. What is also pleasurable to God about showing his wrath and making his power known is the pleasure of receiving honor on account of his good qualities, like the pleasure we humans take in receiving honor on account of our good qualities.

    What is holy and righteous about God's wrath is that it is based on how utterly pure he is (1 John 1:5), and how utterly evil sin is (John 3:19-20).

    God will be honored by saved humanity and the unfallen angels when they see the awesome display of his holy, righteous wrath, and his power, against wicked mankind (Romans 9:22, Revelation 20:15, 14:10-11) and against Satan and the fallen angels (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10).

    It's true that God wants what is best for his Creation (Romans 8:21). The only exception is the human vessels of wrath (Romans 9:22). And God wants to eternally give pleasure to those who obey him: "in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore" (Psalms 16:11).

    What is "best" for human beings about eternal praise of God and obedience to God is that it keeps them from slavery to sin (Romans 6:16-23) and keeps them in an eternal life of bliss (Psalms 16:11). It isn't "best" for human beings themselves to be in eternal torment, but the purpose of Creation as a whole is not what is best for mankind as a whole, but what gives God pleasure (Revelation 4:11).

    ...the pleasure of the infinite, holy God outranks what is best for some infinitesimal, wicked humans. All of humanity together is less than nothing compared with God (Isaiah 40:17). But he will still take no pleasure in the torment (the second death: Revelation 21:8, 20:10,15, 14:10-11) of the wicked [per se], "For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD" (Ezekiel 18:32). God will only take pleasure in that through the torment of the wicked he will be able to eternally show his holy, righteous wrath against evil, and make his power known (Romans 9:22).

    God does dramatic things to reveal His power, wisdom, and wrath to the angels and to those humans He has chosen to save (Ephesians 3:10, Romans 9:22). God could also do dramatic things simply because it gives Him pleasure (cf. Revelation 4:11). He's not some robotic computer program that has no feelings or desires (e.g. Exodus 34:14, Hosea 10:10, Revelation 3:19), but a real Person.

    The glorification of God is more important than anything (Revelation 4:11, 1 Chronicles 29:11, Matthew 6:13b), including infinitesimal humans.

    God doesn't just want sinful man to go someplace else, for God is omnipresent (Psalms 139:7-8); there is no place sinful man could go where God would not have to be disgusted by his filthiness. Also, God is perfectly just (Deuteronomy 32:4), and so he cannot let even the slightest unrepentant sin go by without it ultimately being judged and punished (Matthew 12:36). Also, it is God's right as Creator, and his desire, to make some men vessels through which he might make his wrath and power known (Romans 9:21-22).

    And the eternal showing of his wrath will permit believers to forever know his mercy for what it is; they will never take it for granted or discount it as not being that big a deal. When they go out of New Jerusalem to look at the people in the lake of fire (Isaiah 66:24), they will no doubt say "There but for the mercy of God go I".

    The purpose of creating mankind was not the benefit of mankind, but the pleasure of God (Revelation 4:11, Proverbs 16:4). To say that He's evil to create humans knowing they will end up in hell for their free-willed sins is only saying that one thinks that humans are more important than God, that God has no right to create human vessels of wrath (Romans 9:20-22). But humans are not more important than God, or even equally important to God. Instead, infinitesimal humans, even all together, are worth less than nothing compared with the infinite, Almighty God (Isaiah 40:15,17). It's only man's Luciferian pride that wants to rail against that most basic fact, and think that he's as important as God, if not more so.

    So, in the end it's Universalism, the idea that God has to save everyone, which is so utterly opposed to God's Sovereignty that it denies His will, and His right, to damn as many humans as He pleases to eternal torment for their free-willed sins, so that He might have the pleasure of showing His wrath, and making His power known forever (Romans 9:22, Revelation 14:10-11, 4:11, Proverbs 16:4). That will be the ultimate proof and eternal affirmation of His total Sovereignty, the total Power of His Free Will over humans, despite their free will.

    ~

    The account of Lazarus and the rich man relates not to the eternal hell (Gehenna, the lake of fire) in which both the souls and resurrected bodies of the unsaved will be tormented in fire forever, but to the temporary hell (Hades), in which only the souls of the unsaved who have died are tormented in fire until the resurrection of the unsaved:

    "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell [hades] he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame" (Luke 16:22-24).

    The fact that the rich man still has eyes and a tongue in Hades shows that the fiery torment of the unsaved in Hades is not such that they are consumed by the flames, but to the extent that they can feel pain.

    But then the question becomes: How can an unsaved dead person's mere soul have a body with eyes and a tongue before the resurrection of the unsaved?

    The answer is that souls take on a ghostly form of the bodies (and even the usual clothing) which they inhabit before they die. This is how the soul of the dead Samuel could rise up from Hades and appear in ghostly form as he did before he died:

    "What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle [robe]. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself. And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?" (1 Samuel 28:14-15).

    But then the question remains: How can the mere souls of the unsaved, even with ghostly bodily forms, suffer pain from the fires in that part of Hades reserved for the unsaved?

    The answer is that the fire which torments the unsaved souls in Hades must be more than merely physical fire; it must be some sort of spiritual fire which can affect spiritual entities such as the souls of humans. We know that spiritual fire exists because God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and God is a fire (Hebrews 12:29).

    The fires of Hades (Luke 16:23-24) and Gehenna (Mark 9:45-46) could consist of the same stuff, able to torment souls as well as bodies.

    ~

    Jesus' description of the separation of Lazarus and the rich man into two different parts of Hades (Luke 16:22-26) matches Enoch's description of the separation of the dead souls of the righteous and the wicked (Enoch 22:8-11) because both descriptions referred to where the souls of dead believers went before the resurrection of Jesus.

    Death isn't a letting go of the known and going into the unknown, for the destination and fate of the souls of the dead is made known to us by the scriptures. The souls of the unsaved dead go down into Hades where they are tormented by flames (Luke 16:23-24), while the souls of the saved dead go into heaven to be with Jesus (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23). If we know Jesus now, in this life, then we know what we're going to in our death, and can expect Jesus to receive our souls unto himself (Acts 7:59) in paradise in heaven (Luke 23:43).
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2015
  5. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
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    Wow. Reading all of these old posts together has left me speechless. I can smell the burning bodies, as it were.

    (But the posts did bring to mind the blog entries -- with all of their sections -- under *Mt. 25:41 and *Mk. 9:45)

    -

    Thank you for saving, and re-posting, these old posts.

    I think they have done, and will do, some good right where they are, here in this thread.
     
  6. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

    174
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    Some more posts for review, I think that´s it with old entries (at least for the moment).


    --

    Freemasons and the end times

    http://www.christianforums.com/threads/freemasons-and-the-end-times.6809429/page-22#post-47901098

    --

    In the old testament, Jerusalem is set up as the antithesis of Babylon (Zechariah 2:7, Psalms 137, Jeremiah 51:35, Isaiah 46:13:1), which Jerusalem would be in its holy aspect (Daniel 9:16,24, Nehemiah 11:1, Revelation 11:2, Matthew 27:53, Isaiah 52:1, 27:13, 66:20, Joel 3:17, Obadiah 1:17, Zechariah 8:3, Psalms 2:6, 48:1-2).

    The Babylonian curtain in the temple which Josephus describes would not make Jerusalem the figurative Babylon in its entirety, but could simply be an outward sign of how corruption had entered into Jewish religious practice.

    ...

    Acts 8:1-3 doesn't make Jerusalem the whore of Babylon in her entirety, for Jerusalem isn't responsible for the death of every martyr on the earth (Revelation 18:24). The Romans killed many Christians outside of Jerusalem, and after the destruction of Jerusalem, for example during the persecution against Christians which came upon all the Roman world during the reign of Domitian (cf. Revelation 2:10, 3:10).

    --

    The "king of the south" was originally Ptolemaic Egypt, which was the southernmost Diadochian kingdom which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 11:2-5). The "king of the south" could still be Egypt today. The "king of the north" was originally the Seleucid Diadochian kingdom which succeeded the Greek Empire of Alexander the Great (Daniel 11:2-6) and which was north of Egypt. The territory of the "king of the north" included the territory of modern-day Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, and Iran. Daniel 11:13-17 could mean that in the future Israel and Egypt will be defeated by a massive Iraqi Army (along with some military contributions from Syria and Iran) led by an Iraqi Baathist General (in Daniel 11:17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

    --

    ... the Orthodox Jews have interpreted Exodus 13:9,16 (and Deuteronomy 6:8) literally, and so they have phylacteries, little boxes containing scriptures which they tie to their forehead and hand, as a token of their total devotion to God's Word. The mark of the Antichrist could be an evil copy of this idea, whereby people will have the Antichrist's name or number carved on their forehead or hand to show their total devotion to the Antichrist.

    People having the name of the Antichrist carved into their foreheads could also be an evil copy of the idea of Revelation 14:1 and Revelation 22:4, where the followers of Jesus will have the name of God written on their foreheads (cf. Revelation 3:12).

    --

    Scriptures such as Isaiah 34:8 don't have to be read literally. Indeed, they can't be literal and be referring to the same period of time as both a "day" and a "year" because a literal day can't be a literal year. Peter says that a "day" to the Lord can last a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8), and if a "day" to the Lord doesn't have to be literal, then neither does a "year". In some cases, they could simply be poetic ways of referring to a particular period of time, no matter how long it lasts. And when a reference to a "year" immediately follows the reference to a "day", this could simply be a poetic way to express emphasis, like we might say: "I'll be with you in a second; I'll be with you in a minute". Neither of these has to be literal, and they can refer to the same indefinite period of time.

    --

    God has given the pastors (and many evangelists) of Pentecostal-type churches and Charismatic-type churches the ability to impart the Holy Spirit to other believers through the laying on of hands. And God has made such pastors (and evangelists) numerous enough and spread enough all around the world so that all believers around the world can easily receive the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands (Acts 19:2,6, Acts 8:15-17).

    --

    Acts 16:16 was an example where a non-Christian possessed by a spirit of divination spoke some good truth regarding some Christians (Acts 16:17). But that spirit was cast out nonetheless (Acts 16:18), for we are not to turn to those with spirits of divination (1 Samuel 28:8b), regardless of whether they speak the truth or not, but are to turn to the Bible for our instruction (2 Timothy 3:16-17), and to the prophets of God in the Church (1 Corinthians 12:28) who may have been given words for our church (1 Corinthians 14:14,29-33) by the Holy Spirit Himself (1 Corinthians 12:8-11).

    --

    God opening "all the chambers of waters which are above the heavens" is just a poetic way of saying that God will cause all the water in the rainclouds which are up in the sky to come pouring down upon the earth.

    It's unclear how some water could be masculine and other water feminine in a physical sense, even if this is interpreted as some water physically having a positive electric charge and other water physically having a negative electric charge, for each molecule of water, regardless of whether it's up in the sky or down on the earth always consists of the same three atoms: two hydrogen atoms covalently bonded to one oxygen atom; and each molecule of water is always polarized the same way: the oxygen atom in a water molecule is always electronegative and the two hydrogen atoms in a water molecule are always electropositive. That's why molecules of water stick to one another so well: the two hydrogen atoms of one molecule are electrostatically drawn to the oxygen atoms of neighboring molecules, a bond called a hydrogen bond.

    So the waters in the sky must be "masculine" and the waters on the earth "feminine" not in some scientific, physical, electric sense, for each molecule of water, regardless of whether it's up in the clouds or down on the earth, is both "masculine" (positive, the two hydrogen atoms) and "feminine" (negative, the one oxygen atom): the oxygen atom in a water molecule is like one big female married to two little males at the same time.

    So the waters in the sky must be "masculine" and the waters on the earth "feminine" only in some symbolic or spiritual sense, in light of their "joining" together in the great flood of Noah.

    --

    Revelation 22:18-19 was originally a warning to the ancient scribes copying the book of Revelation, to make sure that they would be too afraid to intentionally add some of their own words as they copied the book, or intentionally leave out some of the original words which they didn't like as they copied the book.

    Q: If a person who lived in say, AD 400, were to add to the words of the book of Revelation, how exactly would God add the plagues to him, since the plagues would not occur for many years later?

    A: God could bring the same plagues on such an individual personally after that person's resurrection.

    --

    The Gospel ultimately includes everything that Jesus did (Mark 1:1), and taught, and commanded (Matthew 28:20), including in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) and the entire book of Revelation (Revelation 1:1, 22:16).

    Out of all the Christians in the world, only a relatively few believe that the Gospel's descriptions of the end days are literal, or that they will happen soon, or that they have any real relevance to their lives.

    While only a relatively few Christians have been called by Jesus to sometimes "focus" on preaching what Jesus taught in the Bible regarding the end days, all Christians are commanded to "take heed" to everything that Jesus taught in the Bible regarding the end days (Mark 13:23).

    So why don't they do that? Because, for many Christians, it would take away from their enjoyment of and the importance of their present lives. Who wants to "take heed" to all the horrors of the coming tribulation when one is focused on enjoying one's little kids, one's home, one's car, one's entertainment? And how can one continue to see the all-importance of one's job, one's bank account, one's lifestyle, knowing that shortly one could lose all of them in the chaos of the tribulation, leaving one alone and penniless and sick like poor Job in his trials?

    But "taking heed" to all the horrors of the coming tribulation causes one, like Job, to remember what is truly all-important: one's love for God, which must exceed one's love for one's family (Matthew 10:37, Luke 14:26), one's love for one's "stuff" (Luke 12:15), one's love for life in this world (John 12:25); so that even if God allows one to lose all of these things, whether tomorrow or in the coming tribulation, one will, like Job, still love God, still trust Him (Job 13:15), and not curse Him (Job 2:9-10), as many Christians will do during the coming tribulation (Isaiah 8:21-22).

    So "taking heed" to all the horrors of the coming tribulation causes one to remember not to lay up treasures on this earth (Matthew 6:19-20), not to look to the things that are seen (2 Corinthians 4:18), not to set one's affection on things on the earth (Colossians 3:2), for all these things will shortly be destroyed.

    So "taking heed" to all the horrors of the coming tribulation causes one to give up everything for Jesus, as one must do if one is to be saved (Luke 14:33).

    So "taking heed" to all the horrors of the coming tribulation can cause one to truly begin to believe and obey the Gospel of Jesus, and so be saved by Him (Hebrews 5:9), instead of just pretending to know Him (Titus 1:16) and pretending that one is known by Him (Matthew 7:21-27), while one continues to serve Mammon instead (Matthew 6:24), and to serve one's own interests and one's own life in this world (Luke 9:23-25), and one's own sinful pleasures, to the loss of one's own salvation (Hebrews 10:26-29).

    This is why the original cry of the Gospel of Jesus is: "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15). Knowing that the kingdom of man, the kingdom of our own interests, our own pleasures, is soon to be destroyed causes us to repent from our present service to it, and to truly believe the Gospel and to begin to truly serve the kingdom of God instead, the kingdom of God's own interests (Luke 12:29-34; 2 Corinthians 5:15).

    --

    Being 100% repentant is not only not realistic, but completely impossible in those cases where we are trusting in our own heart, our own conscience, to guide us into what is okay to do and what isn't, for the heart is deceitful above all things (Jeremiah 17:9), whoever trusts in his own heart is a fool (Proverbs 28:26), and we can sear our conscience as with a hot iron (1 Timothy 4:2) if we continue in a sin long enough without repentance; we can stop feeling guilty about it and start thinking that it must be okay with God.

    So we must always turn to the Bible to show us how our hearts and thinking may have gone astray (Hebrews 4:12) and to instruct us in what is the way of righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).

    And we shouldn't think that if we are living righteously that the devil can't ever oppress us physically, for the first-century church of Smyrna was righteous, and yet God still allowed the devil to imprison and kill that church (Revelation 2:10).

    Christians must suffer persecution precisely because of their righteousness (2 Timothy 3:12, Matthew 5:10). The devil isn't going to persecute some backslidden Christian steeped in unrepentant sin, but will try to make things go well for him in his sin so that he will never feel any need to repent (Ecclesiastes 8:11), but will think that his sin must be okay with God, or that even if it isn't okay with God that he is so special to God that God isn't ever going to punish him for remaining unrepentant in his sin, but is going to continue to bless him despite it. Of course, this is the opposite of how God deals with unrepentant sin committed by those He loves (Revelation 3:19), but the devil can convince people otherwise.

    So we must remain in God's Word every day (Matthew 4:4) and let it show us where we may have become deceived by the devil, and by our own lusts (James 1:14). And we must pray to God that He would reveal to us by His Word and His Spirit any of our sins that we are not aware of (Psalms 139:23-24), so that we might immediately confess them and repent from them and be forgiven for them right there on the spot (1 John 1:9).

    God's standard is perfection: "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matthew 5:48).

    Any sin whatsoever makes us liable for the death penalty: "The wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23).

    And God cares about even our innermost thoughts, so that even if we just hate someone God considers that the same as murder: "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer" (1 John 3:15).

    In the same way, even if we just look on a woman with lust, God considers that the same as adultery: "whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart" (Matthew 5:28).

    And even if we are not in any sin, we must never become spiritually proud and self-righteous and begin to look down on others and judge others for their sins, for that in itself is a sin (Luke 18:9-14, 6:37).

    Being 100% repentant is not only realistic, but absolutely crucial to salvation (Luke 13:3, Hebrews 10:26-29; 1 Corinthians 9:27).

    And if we're wondering if there might be any sins we're committing that we're not aware of, all we need to do is read the Word diligently (Hebrews 4:12; 2 Timothy 3:16-17) and pray and ask God to reveal to us all of our unrepentant sins (Psalms 139:23-24).

    God can make us perfect (Hebrews 13:21; 1 Peter 5:10) through the blood of Jesus (Hebrews 10:14; 1 John 1:7b,9) and His Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17, John 15:3, Ephesians 5:26-27).

    The church today is filled with people willfully committing any one (or more than one) of the following sins without repentance: "Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21).

    How many of us Christians can honestly claim that we do not commit any of these sins on a regular or even an occasional basis, or that we have honestly repented from every one of them and have no plans to ever commit any of them again in the future? And even among those handful of Christians who are completely free from all of these sins, how many of them are yet in the grip of the worst sin of all: spiritual pride and self-righteousness?

    "And [Jesus] spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted" (Luke 18:9-14).

    God, be merciful to us sinners, and open our eyes to what is sin, and free us from it, as only you can.

    ...

    Jesus [is a human being (Romans 1:3) who] successfully manifests perfect obedience [to God]/sinlessness (Hebrews 4:15b). And he gives that capability to his followers (John 8:34-36).

    It is possible for Christians to achieve perfect obedience (2 Timothy 3:17), just as Jesus achieves perfect obedience.

    Christians, if they want to, can achieve (by reading the Bible) perfect knowledge of what obedience means in any particular circumstance (2 Timothy 3:16-17) in which it is possible to know all of the pertinent facts. And Christians, if they want to, can achieve (by praying for wisdom) perfect knowledge of what obedience means (James 1:5) in any particular circumstance in which it isn't possible to know all of the pertinent facts.

    The correct answer on various questions is not arrived by solely by sincerity and belief, but also by diligent study of every word of the Bible (Isaiah 28:9-10, 1 Corinthians 2:13, Matthew 4:4).

    It is possible for Christians to know from God's instruction in the Bible exactly what to do in every situation to avoid sin (2 Timothy 3:16-17). [Sure knowledge and guidance is found in the Bible (2 Timothy 3:15-4:4).]

    Christians are able to avoid sinning by drawing upon the power of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16, Romans 8:13), the power of Jesus (John 8:34-36, 1 John 3:6-10).

    The capability of Christians not to sin is manifested during periods of time in which they don't sin (1 John 5:18).

    Some Christians are actually able to go for periods of time without sinning (1 Corinthians 9:27).

    There are probably no Christians who don't sin at least every now and then (Ecclesiastes 7:20).

    "For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not." (Ecclesiastes 7:20)

    Christians do not have to sin (John 8:34-36). If they do commit a sin, they can repent from it, confess it to God, and be forgiven for it (1 John 1:9).

    Because Christians are still humans like other humans, they will still have the same issues, faults and mistakes as other humans.

    All Christians have the capability to behave noticeably differently from other humans (Philippians 2:15). But the point is to not look to any Christians, but only to Christ himself (2 Corinthians 4:5).

    Jesus "became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him" (Hebrews 5:9). "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you" (John 15:13-14). "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven" (Matthew 7:21). "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me" (John 14:21-24). God "will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath" (Romans 2:6-8).

    Note that the above passage indicates that we either obey the truth or obey unrighteousness, as in sin. We are either those who are the servants of God and righteousness, or we are those who are the servants of Satan and sin, those who are trapped in "the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will" (2 Timothy 2:26); "Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:16-23).

    Those who are the servants of Satan and sin will end up with Satan and his fallen angels in the eternal torment of the lake of fire: "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever ... And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:10,15); "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal" (Matthew 25:41,46).

    Sin is anything we do in which we depart from obedience to God and try to exist on our own (John 3:20), even though God is the only source of all existence and blessing (Acts 17:28, Psalms 16:11).

    To obey the truth means to obey Jesus (John 14:6,21-24, Hebrews 5:9).

    One knows what is the truth by reading the Bible (2 Timothy 3:15-4:4).

    Christians are actually able to avoid sinning (Galatians 5:16).

    One may have never met a Christian who completely avoids sinning, but Christians are still capable of doing that (Romans 8:13b).

    Saved humans now are capable of never sinning (1 John 3:6-10). It's just that there is probably no saved human now on the earth who never sins (Ecclesiastes 7:20). For we can be capable of not doing something, and yet still wrongly choose to do it.

    What distinguishes a saved person from an unsaved person is that the saved person is capable of never sinning (John 8:34-36), and if he does sin and repents and confesses his sin to God, he is forgiven for it (1 John 1:9). If he refuses to repent from his sins, then he will end up like an unsaved person (Hebrews 10:26-27, Matthew 24:48-51).

    While born-again Christians may reach a point of repentance where they are not knowingly, willingly, or deliberately committing any sin, they could still unknowingly be committing sin every day of their lives, if even just by being self-righteous (Luke 18:9-14), or by some continued unconscious sin such as unconscious resentment, bitterness, and unforgiveness toward someone who has hurt them in the past (Mark 11:26).

    But if born-again Christians ask for God to rid them of any self-righteousness (Job 9:15,20), and reveal to them any unconscious sins (Psalms 19:12-13), and if they ask for forgiveness for their sins (known and unknown) every day in their daily prayers (Matthew 6:11-12, Luke 11:3-4), then they can be forgiven for their sins every day (1 John 1:8-9) and stay on the straight and narrow path of salvation, which few find (Matthew 7:14).

    God also requires born-again Christians to as much as is possible make restitution and peace with those they've wronged in the past, before they come before God in prayer and worship (Matthew 5:23-26, Romans 12:18, Hebrews 12:14).

    Many born-again Christians probably have no idea how much their current problems are the result of unresolved issues in their past (Galatians 6:7), whether involving how they harmed others and have never made it up to them, or how others harmed them and they've never forgiven them, whether consciously or unconsciously.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015
  7. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

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    --

    Jesus doesn't give us all of the gory details of the future tribulation (Revelation chapters 6-18) in order to depress us, but so that we might better prepare ourselves to endure all of those gory details unto the end with patience and faith (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), in no way fearing our future suffering and death, but overcoming them in the hope of eternal life (2 Corinthians 4:17-18, Hebrews 2:15, Philippians 1:29, 1 Peter 4:12-13).

    Trying to spiritualize away all of the horrible, literal aspects of Revelation chapters 6-18 so that everything is merely symbolic only serves to leave the church less prepared to face the horrible, literal aspects of the myriad "things which must be hereafter" (Revelation 4:1).

    The coming tribulation will not be able to extinguish the hope of Christians, for their hope is eternal life through Jesus Christ (Titus 1:2, 2:13, 3:7, 1 Timothy 1:1). No suffering or death on this earth can separate Christians from this hope (Romans 8:18-39).

    All saints, no matter whether they're OT or NT, have eternal life now spiritually and hope for it physically at the second coming resurrection of the saints:

    "Ye have eternal life" (1 John 5:13).

    "In hope of eternal life ... "That blessed hope ... "The hope of eternal life" (Titus 1:2, 2:13, 3:7).

    "Even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it" (Romans 8:23-25).

    "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (1 Peter 1:3-5).

    "The hope of salvation" (1 Thessalonians 5:8).

    "Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:13).

    So there is no need for Christians, in an attempt to stave off depression and hold onto hope, to try to spiritualize or historicize away all of the myriad, literal horrors (Revelation chapters 6-18) which "must" be "hereafter" (Revelation 4:1), or to try to pretend that Christians will somehow prevent them from ever literally happening in the future as such (a la "Kingdom Theology"); for Christians will be able to endure all of the future horrors with patience, faith, and hope unto the end (Revelation 14:12-13, Matthew 24:9-13, Hebrews 6:11, 3:6,14).

    Christians must never place any hope in their ability to transform the world, as opposed to merely pointing the way of salvation (John 14:6, 3:16,36, Acts 4:12, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4) for only a relatively few elect individuals (Matthew 7:14, 22:14). For Christians will completely fail in changing the world even one bit (Isaiah 26:18). Instead, the world will become increasingly wicked (2 Timothy 3:1-4, 4:2-4, 1 Timothy 4:1-2, Matthew 24:12), until all of humanity is brought into the worship of the dragon (Lucifer/Satan) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4,8), who will completely destroy the church's power on the earth (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4).

    One of the purposes of the future tribulation is that the church's power on the earth might be overcome and broken by the Antichrist (Daniel 12:7b, Revelation 13:7), just as at his Passion Jesus allowed his body to be overcome and broken by antichrists (1 Peter 4:12-13, 1 John 2:18,22).

    And just as it was only God himself, not the church, who rose Jesus from the dead (John 10:17-18) and restored Jesus' physical power on the earth (Matthew 28:18), so it will be only God himself, not the church, who will raise the church from the dead at Jesus' second coming (2 Corinthians 1:9, 1 Corinthians 15:22-23, 1 Thessalonians 4:14-16) and give the church physical power on the earth during the millennium (Revelation 2:26-29, 5:10, 20:4-6).

    When Jesus returns, he alone (Isaiah 63:3, Revelation 19:15) will break all of the Satanic power of the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:8-9) and all the armies of the world gathered together to fight against Jesus (Revelation 19:19-21).

    In this way God -- Jesus is God (John 20:28), one God with the Father (John 10:30) -- gets all the glory (Psalms 115:1): For thine (O God) is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen. (Matthew 6:13). For he alone is the Creator (Revelation 4:11, John 1:3, Colossians 1:16-17). It won't be until after the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6), and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-10), and the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), that God, not the church, will create a new earth and cause the heavenly city of New Jerusalem to descend from heaven to the new earth (Revelation 21:1-7).

    At that time, God shall wipe away all tears from the eyes of Christians, and for them (but not for the unsaved, Revelation 21:8, 20:15,10, 14:10-11, Matthew 25:41,46, Mark 9:45-46) there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things will have passed away. And he that sits upon the throne says, "Behold, I make all things new" (Revelation 21:4-5).

    This is the true, Biblical eschatology, which focuses upon God's ultimate victory over all evil, and ultimate re-creation of all things, instead of vainly focusing upon some imaginary power of the church to change the world.

    "Kingdom theology", like all of our theologies, needs a dose of humility. How the future tribulation will humble us all. And how great will be God's glory at the end of it when he alone takes the victory at the second coming of Jesus Christ (Isaiah 63:3-6, Revelation 19:11-21).

    --

    In Matthew 24:14, while the Greek word translated as "world" can be used to refer to the Roman Empire (Luke 2:1, Acts 24:5), it can also mean the globe. Just as Satan could have offered Jesus more than just the Roman Empire (Luke 4:5-7), and just as Satan has deceived more than just the Roman Empire (Revelation 12:9), so Matthew 24:14 could mean that the gospel has to reach more than just the Roman Empire (Revelation 5:9, 7:9) before Matthew 24:15 (which is Daniel 11:31,36 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4) will be allowed to occur (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8). Matthew 24:15 didn't occur in 70 AD, nor has it occured any time since, just as Matthew 24:29-31 (which is 2 Thessalonians 2:1 and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17) didn't occur in 70 AD, nor has it occurred any time since.

    --

    Because all believers of all times are one (John 17:20-21, Ephesians 4:4-5), Jesus could still say "ye" in Matthew 24:15-51, even though the apostles themselves didn't see those things happen in their lifetimes.

    The same applies to Matthew 10:23; the "ye" applies to all believers of all times. Not all of the cities/settlements in Israel have yet been gone through by a Christian preaching the gospel to all of their inhabitants.

    The "we" in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 likewise applies to all believers of all times. The believers at the time 1 Thessalonians 4:14 was written didn't see 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17 fulfilled in their lifetimes, but some believers in the future will.

    --

    And even if Jesus will return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation, it still holds true today that no one knows the day of Jesus' return, because no one knows what day the abomination of desolation will happen …

    --

    … Israel will be without any defenses at all (Ezekiel 38:11), for no one had made them afraid during the millennium (Ezekiel 39:26b).

    Even thinking about it from a 2,000 year perspective, Israel has never been safe since May, 1948, but has had to fight repeated wars which were waged against its very existence, and Israel has also had to suffer innumerable terrorist attacks and the never-ending, daily threat of more and more attacks.

    Israel is a land of walled villages: 20-foot-high concrete walls have been set up by Israel to protect many of its villages from terrorist infiltrations and attacks from Gaza and the West Bank.

    And Israel is a land of gates and bars, for there are little openings in the 20-foot-high concrete walls which serve as gates with bars through which people and cars can only pass into Israel from Gaza and the West Bank after being thoroughly inspected by the Israeli military or police. And there are also gates with bars on the roads connecting Israel with Lebanon and Jordan.

    Clearly, Israel does not consider itself "safe" at all, but is living under a total siege mentality, just hoping to make it through the day without some Jews getting blown to pieces in their own homes from a rocket fired from Gaza or Lebanon, or some Jews getting crushed underneath a gigantic bulldozer driven by an angry Palestinian, or some Jews getting blown to bits while simply riding a bus in Jerusalem, or praying in a Jewish seminary, or buying food at the market.

    So it's no wonder that most Jews prefer to not live in Israel, but to remain in the U.S. and Europe, where they can live in safety.

    So Israel today is the exact opposite of what Israel will be like after the millennium, when there will be no defensive walls, no gates and bars (Ezekiel 38:11), when Israel will be living in perfect safety without any fear of attack whatsoever (Ezekiel 39:26b), for during the millennium Jesus will have outlawed all war and all weapons of warfare (Micah 4:3).

    --

    Ezekiel chapters 38-39 are post-millennial (Revelation 20:7-9), so by the time of the end of the millennium the mortal generation of Israel alive at that time will have fallen away from God, so that God will send Gog as a punishment against them to disperse them. But then God will subsequently kill Gog and restore the mortal generation of Israel to its land and pour out His Spirit on them and they will return to the Lord (Ezekiel 39:22-29).

    "Chief prince" isn't a technical term referring only to angels; humans can be referred to as chief princes (e.g. 1 Chronicles 7:40). And, in the original Hebrew, Ezekiel 38:2 and Daniel 10:13 use different Hebrew words for "prince" and "chief", so the original Hebrew intended no connection between the titles in Ezekiel 38:2 and Daniel 10:13.

    Gog isn't the devil, but a human chief prince (Ezekiel 38:3, cf. 1 Chronicles 7:40b) who will be killed and buried in a valley (Ezekiel 39:11), whereas Satan will be cast into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10).

    Ezekiel chapters 38-39 will happen after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9). So the nations listed in Ezekiel 38:5-6 are not the present-day nations, but nations as they will exist after the millennium.

    Nothing in Ezekiel 38:4-6 requires that the attack happen before or at the start of the millennium, for if Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya have already existed as lands by these names for thousands of years, they certainly can continue to exist by these names through the thousand years of the millennium, so that Ezekiel 38:4-6 could be fulfilled just as stated after the millennium, which is the only time that the Bible says that Ezekiel chapters 38-39 will happen (Revelation 20:7-9).

    Note that Ezekiel 38:8,12 says that the attack campaign can't begin until Israel has already been gathered back to the land previously, which would have occurred during the earliest part of the millennium. During the millennium will be when Israel will be living in peace and be at rest and safe (Ezekiel 38:11,14) before it is attacked after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9).

    The plural "prophets" referred to in Ezekiel 38:17 as foretelling the Gog/Magog event could be Ezekiel (chapters 38-39) and John (Revelation 20:7-9).

    Ezekiel 39:6 would then refer to the mortal generation of nations still alive after the millennium realizing that YHWH really is the only God, after they are defeated at the end of the post-millennial Gog/Magog event, which will be brought on by Satan being released from the bottomless pit and deceiving the nations (Revelation 20:7-10). He could deceive them into thinking that YHWH isn't the only God, but that he, Satan, is their true God, just as Satan a thousand years earlier will have deceived the mortal generation of nations alive during the tribulation to worship him (Revelation 13:4).

    Ezekiel 39:7 refers to a backsliding by the mortal generation of Israel which will be alive at the end of the millennium.

    Ezekiel 39:9-12, like all the rest of Ezekiel chapters 38-39, will happen after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9). That's why the weapons [are not nuclear weapons and tanks and machine guns] are wooden bows and arrows and spears [just the level of military technology one would expect after 1,000 years of no warfare and no military technology whatsoever being allowed (Micah 4:3)] and can be used as firewood by Israel [for 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9-10)].

    The seven months of burying (Ezekiel 39:12) could be during the first part of the seven years of burning the weapons as firewood (Ezekiel 39:9-10).

    The seven months (Ezekiel 39:12) and seven years (Ezekiel 39:9) could occur at the beginning of a longer period of time between Revelation 20:9 and Revelation 20:11. Nothing requires that Revelation 20:11 has to happen immediately after Revelation 20:9.

    Regarding Ezekiel 39:22, "Israel" there is referring only to that part of the Church which will consist of the descendants of the genetic elect Jews who were still alive and unbelievers at the second coming, but which then all got saved and became part of the Church when they saw Jesus at His second coming (Romans 11:26, Zechariah 12:10-14). But because they weren't saved before the second coming, they missed out on the resurrection of the Church at the second coming, and so continued in their mortal bodies in the millennium and continued to have children and died when they grew old, and their children had children and died when they grow old, and so on through the thousand years of the millennium.

    So Ezekiel 39:22, which is referring to what will happen after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9), is referring to a mortal generation of "Israel" which will be many generations after the initial salvation and bringing into the Church of that generation of unbelieving elect Jews which was still alive at the second coming.

    This is why Ezekiel 39:22 in no way says or means that Israel's knowledge of the Lord will begin at the time of the defeat of Gog, which won't be until after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9) [when Satan will be loosed and no doubt able to get the world to worship him as God again like they did during the tribulation (Revelation 13:4)], but means that the mortal generation of "Israel" alive at the end of the millennium will have backslidden by the time of the end of the millennium, so that as a punishment God will allow Gog some initial success in defeating still-mortal Israel and taking it into captivity (Ezekiel 39:23-26). Then, God's defeat of Gog and bringing back of Israel out of captivity (Ezekiel 39:27) [will prove to Israel and everyone else that YHWH is still the real God and Satan still the deceiver] will cause Israel to have the knowledge that it was the Lord who caused them to go into captivity as a punishment for their backsliding (Ezekiel 39:28, cf. 39:22-23).

    Ezekiel 39:7,22,28 means that, while the mortal generation of Israelites alive at the end of the millennium will intellectually know God's name and that YHWH is God, they will backslide to the point where they will pollute his name and lose any real, spiritual, experiential knowledge of God and his sovereignty over their lives, so that after the millennium is over, God will allow the Gog event to happen as a punishment (Ezekiel 39:23-24).

    Ezekiel 39:22-29 refers to a generation of mortal Israelites alive at the very end of the millennium, for Revelation 20:7-9 specifically says that the Gog/Magog event will happen after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9). There will be a need for an outpouring of the Spirit on the generation of mortal Israelites which survives the Gog/Magog event, for that event will be sent by God as a punishment for that generation falling into sin (Ezekiel 39:23-29), which falling into sin could have happened because they had neglected to receive the Spirit (cf. Acts 19:2a,6, 8:15-17).

    He will allow Gog some initial success in taking the mortal Israelites captive before He rescues them and restores them to their land and pours out His Spirit on them and they return to Him.

    Regarding Ezekiel 39:23-29, that could refer to some measure of early success during the attack campaign by the forces of evil, so that they may be able to defeat most of Israel and take it into captivity [causing that mortal generation of Israelites to repent, to cry out to God for help, and to come back into a right relation with God, to where they will come to know him as they should (Ezekiel 39:22), and can then be returned to the land of Israel (Ezekiel 39:27-28)]. God could wait until only Jerusalem is left undefeated before He pours out His fire from heaven and destroys the attacking forces. Then He could bring back all of the Israelites which had been taken captive during the early part of the attack campaign.

    Ezekiel 39:25-26 means that Israel won't be perfect at least during the lattermost part of the millennium, but will have begun to fall back into sin.

    Ezekiel 39:29 prophesies of a post-millennial outpouring of the Spirit on the generation of mortal Israel which will have survived the Gog invasion.

    The two different outpourings of the Spirit on Israel of Ezekiel 39:29b and Joel 2:28-29 are separated by 3,000 years, for Joel 2:28-29 was fulfilled in the first century (Acts 2:16-18), while the Gog/Magog event of Ezekiel chapters 38-39 won't be fulfilled until after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9).

    ~

    The post-millennial (Revelation 20:7-9), wooden bows and arrows and spears of the armies led by Gog against Israel will be so numerous that they will be stacked and used as firewood by the surviving Israelites for seven years (Ezekiel 39:9-10). Tanks, helicopters, bombs, rockets, etc., cannot be used as firewood, nor can their fuels be used as a source for home fires because they burn too quickly and give off noxious fumes.

    Since the Gog/Magog event won't be fulfilled until after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9), it has no relation at all to present-day Russia or the Islamic nations. So it has nothing to do with the current state of Russia invading the current state of Israel. Anything that the country of Russia is doing today has no connection with the Gog of Ezekiel chapters 38-39, who is an individual man who will be the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal (Ezekiel 38:3) in a land called Magog (Ezekiel 38:2) after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9).

    ~

    The millennium will still be part of the fall, for there will still be unsaved people who will rebel against God during the millennium (Zechariah 14:17-19, Revelation 2:26-29), just as some unsaved people will rebel against God after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-10).

    The idea that by the very end of the millennium, the generation of mortal Israelites alive at that time will have fallen away from God is in no way contrary to scripture, for people will still have free will during the millennium. Satan isn't the cause of all of our being tempted to disobey God (James 1:14), so even when Satan is kept from deceiving people during the millennium (Revelation 20:3), the scriptures still show some people disobeying God during the millennium (Zechariah 14:17-19).

    Gog and his armies won't be Muslims, for Jesus will get rid of all false religions during the millennium and every one will be forced to be Christians (Zechariah 14:16-19).

    But Gog and his armies could very well become Luciferians when Lucifer is released after the millennium and deceives them into invading Israel (Revelation 20:7-9).

    --

    "Catholic", in its true, original sense, simply means "universal". It doesn't mean "Roman". Indeed, adding "Roman" to "catholic" with regard to the church is an oxymoron, for the universal church is much larger than just the Roman church.

    There are many Christians who go to Catholic churches who truly know Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father, and are actively and faithfully serving them every day of their lives, just as there are many Christians who go to non-Catholic churches who truly know Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and the Father, and are actively and faithfully serving them every day of their lives.

    Likewise, there are many merely-nominal Christians who go to Catholic churches who don't truly know Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or the Father, and are not actively and faithfully serving them at all, just as there are many merely-nominal Christians who go to non-Catholic churches who don't truly know Jesus, the Holy Spirit, or the Father, and are not actively and faithfully serving them at all (Titus 1:16).

    So whether someone goes to a Catholic or non-Catholic church doesn't determine their salvation or obedience to God; what determines their salvation and obedience to God is their daily walk with God as individuals (John 14:21,23-24, Luke 9:23, Matthew 7:21, Hebrews 5:9).

    If one means that the Pope and Catholic priests are the Antichrist, they aren't (even though they aren't Biblical), because they don't deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and they don't deny that Christ has become flesh (1 John 4:3).

    Mary should never be denigrated or dishonored in any way. But Jesus nonetheless diverted people's attention away from any focusing on her and directed them to focus instead on God's word and doing his will (Luke 11:27-28, Matthew 12:47-50).

    --

    The holy covenant which the Antichrist will have indignation against and which his Jewish quislings in Jerusalem will have forsaken (Daniel 11:30) would be the still-holy Old Covenant (Romans 7:12), which many unbelieving Jews in Jerusalem have forsaken in their desire to be free from any religious control over their lives. The way that the Antichrist could corrupt these Jews by flatteries (Daniel 11:32) could be to teach them that THEY are God, and so can do as they please, in the sense that the "New Age" teaches that all men are God and shouldn't bind themselves by any religious rules, or concepts such as "sin". Of course, the Antichrist, even if he teaches this, will still insist that everyone worship him and Lucifer (Revelation 13:4-8), whom he could present to the world as (what he could call) "the highest and most perfect manifestation of the God Consciousness of which all men are a part". [He could say that all men are gods (cf. Psalms 82:6, John 10:34), just not as advanced yet as Lucifer.]

    But there will be some unsaved elect Jews (whether ultra-Orthodox or not) who will not fall under the Antichrist's spell, and so will refuse to worship him or his image or receive his mark on their hand or forehead, thereby escaping the eternal damnation which will be the price of doing these things (Revelation 14:9-11). And some of these unsaved elect Jews will escape the death sentence from the Antichrist for refusing to worship his image (Revelation 13:15), so that they will still be alive at the second coming, when Jesus will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20) and save all of them (Romans 11:26-31, Zechariah 12:10-14).

    ~

    Daniel 11:31-33 refers to those Christians who won't follow Jesus' command to immediately flee into the mountains when they see the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15-16), and won't follow Jesus' command to flee a city when they begin to be persecuted in it (Matthew 10:23). Instead, they will stay behind in Judaea and other places when the Antichrist's persecution reaches their city, either because of willful disobedience, or because Jesus has spoken to them individually to stay behind so that they can do exploits, instruct many, and then die as martyrs for His name.

    In this latter case, we will have to make very sure that it's Jesus who is instructing us to stay behind, for if it is not Him, but our own spiritual pride, then we could be setting ourselves up for disaster. For only Jesus knows whether or not we will be able to stand up to the torture of the Antichrist without denying Jesus and so losing our salvation (2 Timothy 2:12, Hebrews 6:4-8). Jesus never lets us be tested beyond our strength to resist, but will always provide a way of escape (1 Corinthians 10:13). But if we in our pride refuse to take that way of escape (e.g. Ezekiel 7:16), then we could very well be tested beyond our strength to resist, and so succumb to apostasy.

    ~

    Daniel 11:32b-33a refers to some of the Christians who will be trapped in the cities when the abomination of desolation occurs (Daniel 11:31), but who will be empowered by God to do amazing things and teach a lot of people, before they are killed or captured (Daniel 11:33b). Some of them will be tortured (Daniel 11:35, cf. Revelation 2:10).

    Daniel 11:35a could refer to some Christians being tortured by the Antichrist until the year of the return of Jesus.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
  8. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
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    Thank you for saving, and for re-posting, these old posts. I think they are doing some good in this thread.

    Also, based on parts of them, I hope to add a new blog entry under *Isa. 34:8; add a new entry under *Ezek. 38:3 and *Ezek. 38:17; and add a new section under *Mt. 24:14.

    Thank you for helping me to make these additions to the blog.
     
  9. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

    174
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    Regarding this old entry, is it correct?

    "Habakkuk could be referring to the ancient Chaldeans (Habakkuk 1:6) in the days of Habakkuk (Habakkuk 1:5). The Hebrew word translated as "end" in Habakkuk 2:3 can be translated simply as "after" (Daniel 11:13).

    Habakkuk 1:5-6 could have been fulfilled by the ancient Chaldeans who conquered ancient Jerusalem in 586 BC. In that case, "at the end" (Habakkuk 2:3) could mean at the end of the ancient period of time between the time that the vision was given and the "appointed time" (Habakkuk 2:3) when it was fulfilled: compare Jeremiah 52:8 & Habakkuk 1:8; compare Jeremiah 52:14-15 & Habakkuk 1:9; compare Jeremiah 52:10-11 & Habakkuk 1:10a; and compare Jeremiah 52:5,7a & Habakkuk 1:10b."

    --

    Some more old entries for review:

    (http://www.christianforums.com/threads/end-times-view.7260769/page-3#post-47975627)

    Most of the world thinks Jesus was a straight-up guy, so to attack Jesus head-on wouldn't gain the Antichrist many followers. Instead, the Antichrist could say that Jesus was a great guy, but wasn't the Christ Himself. The Antichrist could say that the regular man-of-flesh Jesus was merely temporarily indwelt by the Divine Spirit of Christ, like wine filling a glass, so that the Divine Spirit of Christ Himself never became flesh. This will be a key doctrine of the Antichrist, as it is of all antichrists (2 John 1:7; 1 John 4:3).

    So what the Antichrist could claim is that after the regular man-of-flesh Jesus died a regular death (no crucifixion for our sins or resurrection), the Divine Spirit of Christ returned up to heaven, only to come back to earth two thousand years later to dwell within the Antichrist just as the Divine Spirit of Christ had dwelt within Jesus.

    So the Antichrist could say: "Look, Jesus is dead and not here. But Christ is alive and here, right here within me, to be worshipped and served as God through me, just as He was worshipped and served as God through Jesus (John 20:28). So when you see me you are seeing the second coming of Christ".

    Then the Antichrist could take a further step in order to bring the world into Luciferianism (Revelation 13:4). He could say: "I must reveal to you the original and true name of the Christ; it was never 'Jesus', but always 'Lucifer'. Our God isn't 'Jesus Christ' but 'Lucifer Christ', for Lucifer is the morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and Christ is the morning star (Revelation 22:16). So Jesus was indwelt by Lucifer, showing to the world how loving and kind our Lord Lucifer is. I will show you the same thing".

    Of course the truth is that Lucifer fell from his office of morning star (Isaiah 14:12) and became Satan (Luke 10:18). Jesus then took over the office of morning star (Revelation 22:16).

    But the Antichrist could convince the world otherwise, especially when the world sees the amazing miracles which the False Prophet of the Antichrist will be able to do by the power of Lucifer (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:13-18, 19:20).

    The Antichrist could say: "Look, just as at His first coming Lucifer Christ showed His power and divinity through miracles (John 3:2), so now at His second coming He is again showing His power and divinity through miracles. If you accept the miracles of His first coming as proof of His divinity, then you must accept the miracles of His second coming as proof of His divinity".

    Of course, this is not true at all because Jesus warned us that false Christs and prophets would come and do miracles to try to deceive us (Matthew 24:24). And Paul expressly said that the Antichrist's coming would be accompanied by Satanic miracles (2 Thessalonians 2:9).

    So it is not by miracles that we determine the truth, but by the Word of God, the Bible (2 Timothy 3:16).

    So the Antichrist will have to say that the Bible is filled with many errors and lies of fallible and evil men, and that he is restoring to the world the original and true teachings of God.

    He could claim that Lucifer isn't Satan, but that the God of the Old Testament (YHWH) is Satan, that even 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together prove that YHWH and Satan are the same entity, the single entity which moved David to number Israel.

    Of course the truth is that all 2 Samuel 24:1 and 1 Chronicles 21:1 together show is that YHWH used Satan to move David. YHWH elsewhere rebuked Satan (Zechariah 3:2), so they are in no way the same entity.

    But the Antichrist could nonetheless convince the world that they are, thereby greatly blaspheming YHWH (Revelation 13:5) in order to turn the world away from YHWH and into the arms of Lucifer (Revelation 13:4).

    But Jesus confirmed that YHWH is the true God (Mark 12:29-31, cf. Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18b).

    But the Antichrist could claim that Jesus never actually said that, that Mark 12:29-31 is just the invention of mistaken or lying men writing long after Jesus had died.

    But those who really know Jesus can recognize His voice (John 10:27) in the scriptures. Those who really are Jesus' disciples will stay true to His Word (John 8:31b) as recorded in the Bible.

    But others will turn away from the Word to run after teachings that they like better (2 Timothy 4:3-4), even teachings that come from devils (1 Timothy 4:1) masquerading as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:14).

    But we must remain true to the Word if we are to be saved (James 1:21b).

    --

    (http://www.christianforums.com/thre...f-angels-man-jesus-god.7267541/#post-48054198)

    … what could happen in the future is that the Antichrist could teach the world the ancient lies of Gnosticism (e.g. 1 John 4:3), including the lie that the Creator God YHWH isn't infinite, but the Gnostic Demiurge, a finite god who created the material universe, into which the free spirits of men in the Pleroma (Heaven) somehow fell and became entrapped in fleshly bodies. The Antichrist could teach that now Lucifer has come down from the Pleroma to show mankind the way out of the material universe and back into the Pleroma.

    But the Antichrist could say that "Mankind will have to first become united, with itself and with Lucifer and his angels, if they are to win a great battle against YHWH and his angels (Armageddon, Revelation 16:14,16, 19:19), and so free themselves from YHWH's tyranny in this Matrix universe".

    The Antichrist will say terrible things against YHWH and his angels in heaven (Revelation 13:6). He could say that it is YHWH who is Satan, an evil god, while Lucifer the dragon is the good God, so that the world will turn to the worship of the dragon Lucifer (Revelation 13:4).

    The Antichrist could say that even though YHWH is evil, he is very powerful, so that he and Lucifer would be about equally matched if they had a one-on-one fight. The Antichrist could say that YHWH has managed to terrify two-thirds of the angels in heaven to obey him, while the good Lucifer is left with only one-third of the angels, courageous enough to remain on his side.

    Then the Antichrist could add another teaching, one that has even cropped up in this forum: that all men were once angels in heaven, but then took on fleshly bodies and became men. Of course, the Bible nowhere teaches any such thing. The danger of this teaching is how the Antichrist could put it to use. He could say:

    "My fellow humans! We ARE angels! Lucifer needs us to join him in the great battle against the angels of YHWH, so that we might defeat them and then defeat YHWH himself and return to our rightful place in the Pleroma. We are numerous! Our numbers can match, nay even exceed, the numbers of the angels of YHWH, if enough of us can stay alive during this horrible tribulation that YHWH has sent upon the world so that he can kill as many of us as possible. He knows our power when we are united with Lucifer against him! He is AFRAID of us united with Lucifer! Look what he did to the Tower of Babel because how fearful we made him. He even admitted that we can do anything we set our minds to; he even said 'and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do' (Genesis 11:6), and that included overthrowing his tyrrany over the Pleroma".

    Of course, the truth is that YHWH destroyed the Tower of Babel and scattered mankind not because He was afraid for Himself, but afraid of what mankind could invent and do that would end up destroying mankind and the planet before their time was up, such as through a nuclear war or global warming.

    But the Antichrist could nevertheless insist that YHWH was fearful for himself should mankind become united against him.

    So we see that the Antichrist could upend the pecking order outlined in the Bible of an infinite, uncreated Creator God YHWH, who has finite created angels under Him, and finite men created a little lower than the angels. The Antichrist could replace this with a new pecking order of YHWH and Lucifer as two equally powerful gods, who have angels under them in the Pleroma, and angels who by some mishap fell into YHWH's material universe and became men of flesh. So the Antichrist could get rid of the infinite Biblical gap between YHWH and Lucifer, as well as get rid of the Biblical gap between angels and men.

    Quote: „Even Jesus was made a little lower than the angels.“

    A: The Antichrist could deny this, as he will no doubt deny much of scripture. He could say that Jesus was never made lower than the angels, but was, like any other man, always equal to the angels. He could say that "Jesus was just one of the angels/men of Lucifer, who preached freedom from YHWH's tyranny, including his vile Mosaic law. Isn't this why JESUS Christians no longer keep YHWH's law?".

    --

    No scripture ever teaches or requires more than one future coming of Jesus. Unlike in the old testament, which contains prophecies about both Jesus' first coming (Isaiah 53) and his second coming (Zechariah 14), there are no significant differences or apparent contradictions between the new testament scriptures about our Lord's future coming; they will all be fulfilled at the same one-and-only second coming. There's no third coming of Christ. There's no pre-trib rapture (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

    The single second coming will be both with and for the saints, and in two different ways. The first way is found in 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17, where at the same second coming Jesus comes "with" the saints in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 and then raptures the saints in 1 Thessalonians 4:17. In this case the "with" in 1 Thessalonians 4:14 refers to those saints who will have died before the second coming, and the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 refers to both the dead saints after their resurrection in 1 Thessalonians 4:16b and the living saints after their changing into immortality (in 1 Corinthians 15:51-53).

    There is also a second sense in which Jesus will come both with and for His saints at the single second coming. For the rapture will catch up the entire Church into the sky to Jesus (1 Thessalonians 4:17) to be judged by Jesus (Psalms 50:4-5, cf. Mark 13:27) and married to Jesus (Revelation 19:7) in the sky before the Church mounts white horses and descends back down from the sky (the first heaven) with Jesus (Revelation 19:14) to the earth to reign with Him during the millennium (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).

    So we see two different ways in which Jesus will come both for and with the saints at the same single second coming. There is simply no scriptural reason to claim that with and for are "totally contradictory concepts" within a single second coming.

    --

    Faith is blind in the sense that it's not based on literal sight: "we walk by faith, not by sight" (2 Corinthians 5:7). For example, we believe that God exists even though we cannot see him: "the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15); "No man hath seen God at any time" (John 1:18, 1 John 4:12). But all men can know that God exists because of everything else that exists: "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse" (Romans 1:20). "The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God" (Psalms 14:1). "Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture" (Psalms 100:3). "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3). "He is before all things, and by him all things consist" (Colossians 1:17). "In him we live, and move, and have our being" (Acts 17:28).

    The blindness of faith doesn't mean that believers can't use their minds and ask tough questions; they should ask as many questions as they have. But if by "tough" questions you mean questioning the veracity of what the Bible teaches, then that falls outside the realm of faith altogether, and there is nothing that can bring a person into the realm of faith but a miraculous gift from God: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Ephesians 2:8); "Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father" (John 6:65). "As many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:48). This gets into the whole area of election and unelection of people: not all people are elected by God to be saved, and so he doesn't give the gift of faith to everyone when they read (or hear) the Bible: "faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God" (Romans 10:17).

    Those who persist in unbelief unto death, no matter how much they read the Bible, are not elect, not of God: "Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God" (John 8:42-47).

    Another possibility, if someone persists in unbelief unto death, no matter how much they read the Bible, is that they are of God, are elect, but are wrongly employing their will to harden their hearts against God's Word the Bible: "While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts" (Hebrews 3:15). Even those elect who had soft hearts at one time and so were given the gift of faith, can subsequently wrongly employ their will to commit apostasy, to willfully depart from the faith in order to follow their own lusts: "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1-2). "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (2 Timothy 4:2-4).

    --

    (http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-assyrian.7264735/page-2#post-48097481)

    There's no historical or scriptural proof that every last detail of Isaiah 10:5-34 wasn't fulfilled during Sennacherib's invasion in Isaiah chapters 36-37 ...

    Note that the fulfillment of Isaiah 10:5-34 during Sennacherib's invasion of Judah in Isaiah chapters 36-37 wouldn't require any attack that is different from the one recorded in scripture and in other histories regarding Sennacherib, for there is no attack of Jerusalem itself in Isaiah 10:5-34, just as there is no attack of Jerusalem itself in Isaiah chapters 36-37 or in other histories regarding Sennacherib.

    Sennacherib [an Assyrian] defeated Judah (Isaiah 10:6, Isaiah 36:1), but never actually attacked Jerusalem itself (Isaiah 10:32, Isaiah 37:33), even though Sennacherib made great boasts regarding his defeat of certain great cities and pagan gods and idols, which existed only in ancient times (Isaiah 10:9-11, Isaiah 36:19-20). God himself obliterated Sennacherib's forces (Isaiah 10:12,16-19,26,33-34, Isaiah 37:36). A remnant of the Jews survived and thrived after Sennacherib's invasion of Judah (Isaiah 10:20-22, Isaiah 37:31-32) [a remant of Jews returned to God wholeheartedly].

    Isaiah 10:5-34 might not make any reference to the future day of the Lord, but only to the ancient day (the time) of Sennacherib's invasion of Judah (Isaiah chapters 36-37).

    Isaiah 10:5-6 could refer to Sennacherib’s invasion of the hypocritical nation of Judah, because 2 Kings 18:3-6 doesn't refer to the nation of Judah, but only to Hezekiah; and 2 Chronicles 30:12 doesn't refer to the spiritual state of the nation of Judah at the time of Sennacherib's invasion, but only to one instance some fourteen years before Sennacherib's invasion. For 2 Chronicles 30:12 occurred in the first year of Hezekiah's reign (2 Chronicles 29:3-30:12), whereas Sennacherib's invasion didn't occur until the fourteenth year of Hezekiah's reign (Isaiah 36:1).

    So 2 Chronicles 32:1's "after these things" means fourteen years after these things, far more than enough time for the nation of Judah to have become hypocritical.

    So there is certainly a way that Isaiah 36:1 could be the fulfillment of Isaiah 10:5-6.

    The prophesied boasting [against the still-undefeated Jerusalem] in Isaiah 10:9-11 was fulfilled by Sennacherib in Isaiah 36:19-20.

    Isaiah 10:9-11 could have been fulfilled in Isaiah 36:19-20/2 Kings 18:34-35.

    A future word-for-word fulfillment of Isaiah 10:9-11 isn't possible unless in the future an Assyrian happens to speak ancient Hebrew, and the cities with the exact names translated as "Calno", "Carchemish", "Hamath", "Arpad", and "Samaria" are all rebuilt (or some already-existing cities are renamed), and then they and Damascus and Jerusalem become "kingdoms" which contain "idols" and "graven images".

    Psalm 22:1 doesn't require a word-for-word fulfillment of Isaiah 10:9-11.

    Isaiah 10:10-11 doesn't say that the attack of Judah and Jerusalem had already occurred.

    The Lord's work in Jerusalem in Isaiah 10:12 could have been performed during Sennacherib's invasion of Judah, when Jerusalem was made to trust solely upon the Lord for protection (Isaiah 37:1).

    ... the "whole work" which the Lord performed upon Jerusalem during that invasion could have been the spiritual work of getting the fearful people of Judah holed up in Jerusalem back into wholehearted devotion to the Lord. Nothing in Isaiah 10:12 required that Sennacherib had to actually destroy Jerusalem for the Lord to perform this work.

    Isaiah 10:12b refers to God's subsequent destruction of Sennacherib's Assyrian Army in Isaiah 37:36-37.

    Isaiah 10:12,20-21 could have been fulfilled in Isaiah 37:31-38.

    Isaiah 10:16 may not refer to the future event of Zechariah 14:12, but only to the ancient event of Isaiah 37:36.

    There's no reason to assume that Isaiah 10:16-19,26-27 has to refer to some future Assyrian, instead of Sennacherib (Isaiah 37:36).

    Isaiah 10:20 refers to Isaiah 37:31-32, which happened after the destruction of Sennacherib's Assyrian Army in Isaiah 37:36-37.

    Isaiah 10:20 could have been fulfilled during Sennacherib's invasion of Judah, when the remnant in Jerusalem was made to rely solely upon the Lord for protection (Isaiah 37:1-4).

    All Isaiah 10:20-21 requires is that the Israelites no longer looked to Assyria, but returned to the Lord, just as they had returned to the Lord fourteen years earlier, at the start of Hezekiah's reign (2 Chronicles 29:3-30:12).

    "That day" in Isaiah 10:20,27 could refer only to the day (the time) of Sennacherib's invasion of the kingdom of Judah (Isaiah chapters 36-37).

    The destruction in Isaiah 10:22 could refer only to the destruction of all the cities of Judah (except for Jerusalem) during Sennacherib's invasion of Judah (Isaiah 36:1).

    Isaiah 10:24-25 refers to Sennacherib's inability to take Jerusalem, and the subsequent destruction of his Army, as in Isaiah 37:35-37.

    Isaiah 10:25 may refer only to God's indignation against hypocritical Judah in the time of Sennacherib (Isaiah 10:5-6, 36:1).

    Isaiah 10:28-32 doesn't necessarily describe the "defeat" of any of the thirteen cities mentioned, in the sense of Sennacherib having had to have waged any battle whatsoever against them. The tenor of the passage with regard to the inhabitants of the cities is only one of terror and flight; no fighting is mentioned at all.

    Nor is three days mentioned; Sennacherib could have passed by all thirteen cities in only two days. The laying up of his carriages in Michmash (Isaiah 10:28) could have simply been a short rest and chow and water break for the horses and a lunch break for the men. Then they could have spent the night in Geba (Isaiah 10:29).

    There is no historical proof that Sennacherib could not have taken the path of Isaiah 10:28-32, or that he could not have travelled at a rate whereby he passed by those thirteen cities in two days. For there is no evidence that any of those cities put up any fight whatsoever, so there could have been nothing to slow Sennacherib's progress.

    If there's a record of Sennacherib destroying cities along the coast, that could simply be because they put up a fight, and he wanted a record of his victory over them in battle, whereas the cities along the mountain ridge in Isaiah 10:28-32 could have all cowered and fled, so that there were no battles or victories to record.

    Another possibility is that archaeologists simply have not yet found any monuments which Sennacherib might have set up along the mountain ridge recording his "taking possession of all the cities of the cowardly Judaeans in these mountains", because the monuments were later destroyed by the Jews, or because they still lie buried.

    Also, Sennacherib could have refrained from destroying the cities along the ridge because he wanted to keep them intact with their supplies, so that he would have at least one way to travel back up north without having to worry about running out of food for his army.

    .. there are so few detailed facts of ancient history that no historian can possibly claim to know all the details of the path which Sennacherib could have taken in his invasion of Judaea. And the fact that a historian said Isaiah "blew it" in the prophecy of Isaiah 10:5-34 shows two things: First, he agrees that Isaiah 10:5-34 was a prophecy of Sennacherib's invasion, probably because he could see how it matches so closely with Isaiah chapters 36-37; but because the historian couldn't find any surviving detailed facts of ancient history which supported Isaiah 10:28-32, he for some reason concluded that Isaiah must have gotten that one part wrong.

    Second, his thinking that scripture can get things wrong shows that he thinks he knows better than scripture, which means that he thinks he knows more than he really knows. So his rejection of Isaiah 10:28-32 could simply be a case of him thinking he knows something he doesn't really know: that Sennacherib couldn't possibly have taken that path down the ridge. The fact remains that Sennacherib very well could have taken that path. There is no historical proof whatsoever that he didn't.

    If one believes that scripture is inerrant (2 Timothy 3:16), and one will admit that one doesn't know all the details of ancient history because only a relatively few have survived, and one will read Isaiah 10:5-34 and Isaiah chapters 36-37 together with an open mind, without already, for some reason, wanting Isaiah 10:5-34 to be fulfilled in the future, then one will see how Isaiah 10:5-34 and Isaiah chapters 36-37 are referring to the same invasion by Sennacherib.

    Different details don't require that two descriptions of the same event must be two different events, otherwise we would have to say that 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 must be referring to two different events, for 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 makes no mention of the living in the Church been changed into immortality at the second coming, while 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 does.

    Of course, we can take a step back and consider that maybe 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 just adds a detail which is not included in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, just as Isaiah 10:28-32 could have added a detail which is not included in Isaiah chapters 36-37.

    Evidence is ultimately not significant if it fails to prove one's point. And in the case of the comparison of Isaiah 10:5-34 and Isaiah chapters 36-37, simple common sense and logic backs up the claim that there is no positive evidence, much less proof, that Isaiah 10:28-32 cannot possibly have added a detail which is not included in Isaiah chapters 36-37.

    There are no contradictions between Isaiah 10:5-34 and Isaiah chapters 36-37, and there are enough parallels between them that Isaiah chapters 36-37 could very well have been the fulfillment of Isaiah 10:5-34. For example, "Sennacherib king of Assyria" (Isaiah 36:1) fulfills "the king of Assyria" (Isaiah 10:12b); his boasting in Isaiah 36:19-20, 37:13 fulfills his boasting in Isaiah 10:9-11; and God's defeating of him in Isaiah 37:35-37 fulfills God's defeating of him in Isaiah 10:12b,18-19.

    There's really no scriptural or historical reason to insist that Isaiah chapters 36-37 could not possibly have been the fulfillment of Isaiah 10:5-34, so there's really no scriptural or historical reason to insist that Isaiah 10:5-34 has yet to be fulfilled in the future.

    God could have told us of Sennacherib's trek down the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32, for the rest of the prophecy of Isaiah 10:5-34 was fulfilled during Sennacherib's subsequent invasion of Judah in Isaiah chapters 36-37: Sennacherib fulfilled Isaiah 10:5-6 in Isaiah 36:1; and Sennacherib fulfilled Isaiah 10:9-11 in Isaiah 36:19-20; and Isaiah 10:12,16-19,26-27,33-34 was fulfilled in Isaiah 37:36; and Isaiah 10:20 was fulfilled in Isaiah 37:32. So it would only make sense that Isaiah 10:28-32 was also fulfilled during Sennacherib's invasion of Judah.

    A writer of a dead sea scroll, living possibly hundreds of years after Sennacherib's invasion, wouldn't have to have had any knowledge of Sennacherib's journey down the ridge which had taken place, for the fearful flight of the Jews from the towns on the ridge (Isaiah 10:29b,31) could have been seen by the generation of the Jews who fled as a shameful episode which was best forgotten, instead of being passed down to subsequent generations. [Not all of the Dead Sea Scrolls are copies of scripture, so we mustn't accept everything they say as being infallible.]

    If Sennacherib set up stelae boasting of his conquest of well-known coastal cities on his way to Judah in Isaiah chapters 36-37, he may not have boasted of his conquest of the towns along the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32 (if he also took that route) because he considered them too small and unknown to mention.

    Because Sennacherib's trek down the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32 was so rapid (if he took that route), and if the inhabitants of the towns had all fled in fear (Isaiah 10:29-31), then there wouldn't need to be any archeological evidence of Sennacherib's passing down the ridge, for he could have left the abandoned towns intact.

    If Isaiah 10:28-32 doesn't happen in the future, this won't mean that the prophecy failed, for it could have easily been fulfilled by Sennacherib.

    … note that nothing in Isaiah 37:21-35 would forbid Sennacherib from stopping some distance north of Jerusalem, at the hill of Nob, and merely shaking his fist at Jerusalem from afar (Isaiah 10:32). Nothing in Isaiah 10:5-34 contradicts anything in Isaiah 37:21-35, just as nothing in Isaiah 10:5-34 contradicts anything in Isaiah chapters 36-37. Both Isaiah 10:5-34 and Isaiah chapters 36-37 can refer to Sennacherib's invasion of Judah.

    ~

    First of all, if the coastal cities which were destroyed were only "on the way to" Judaea (if this is in fact what the monuments themselves say, which hasn't yet been shown), then those cities could have been north of a point where Sennacherib turned and went up into the mountains and down the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32.

    Or, if the monuments themselves don't actually say "on the way to" Judaea, they could be a record of Sennacherib's victories over coastal cities after he had passed down the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32 and out to the coast.

    Or, if the monuments themselves do actually say "on the way to" Judaea, it's possible that after he had passed down the ridge of Isaiah 10:28-32 and out to the coast, he destroyed the coastal cities with the intent of returning back to Jerusalem and defeating Hezekiah, so that he would have put on the monuments that the destruction of the coastal cities was "on the way" to what he planned to be the grand prize of Jerusalem and the defeat of Hezekiah himself, but which in fact never happened because God destroyed his army before he could actually return to Jerusalem (Isaiah 37:35-37).

    ~

    The fact that Sennacherib was expert at destroying such defenses does not mean that he could not have still been frustrated by seeing the magnitude of Jerusalem's defenses, for he could have hoped to find Jerusalem not so well defended. He could have come down the ridge (Isaiah 10:28-31) with just an expeditionary force hoping to be able to take Jerusalem out with just that force. But when he saw that he could not possibly overcome Jerusalem's defenses without bringing his main, coastal forces all the way up to Jerusalem (thereby leaving his coastal flank dangerously exposed to an Egyptian incursion), he could have remained at the hill of Nob to the north of Jerusalem and merely shook his fist at Jerusalem in frustration (Isaiah 10:32). Then, when he returned to his main forces laying siege at Lachish, he could have begun to worry how long it would take to lay a successful siege against Jerusalem (and what advances Egypt could make up the coast during that time, cutting him off from his coastal supply lines, when his main forces were gone from the coast), so that he sent some of his officers up to Jerusalem to try to frighten and coax Jerusalem into surrender with mere talk (2 Chronicles 32:9-18, 2 Kings 18:31-35, Isaiah 10:9-11).

    ~

    Isaiah 10:33-34 may refer only to God's ancient wrath against the army of Sennacherib (Isaiah 37:36).

    --

    In Isaiah 14:25 and Isaiah 10:24-32, the Assyrian could be Sennacherib (cf. Isaiah 37:36-37).

    Isaiah 14:25 could refer to Sennacherib's ultimate defeat by God (Isaiah 37:36).

    Isaiah 14:25 could have been fulfilled subsequent to Isaiah 14:29-32.

    In Isaiah 14:26, the Hebrew word translated as "earth" is the same Hebrew word translated as "land" in Isaiah 14:25, so they could be referring to the same thing: the whole land of Judah. "All the nations" in Isaiah 14:26 could mean all the nations which were subjugated by the ancient Assyrian empire.

    Nothing requires that Isaiah 14:29 is referring to events subsequent to Isaiah 14:25.

    Isaiah 14:29 could begin a separate prophecy at the time of Ahaz's death (Isaiah 14:28), referring to the death of Tiglath-Pileser III, who had invaded Judah, and no doubt Philistia as well, in the time of Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:19-22).

    "Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken" (Isaiah 14:29) could refer to the Philistines rejoicing over hearing about the death of Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria, who could have gone into Philistia when he came into Judah during the reign of Ahaz (2 Chronicles 28:19-20).

    The one who smote the Philistines in Isaiah 14:29a could have been Tiglathpileser III, who could have smote them during the time of his invasion of Judah (2 Chronicles 28:20).

    In Isaiah 14:29, the second, subsequent invader of Philistia could be Sennacherib, the ultimate destruction of whose invading forces could have been referred to back in Isaiah 14:25, not to mention back in Isaiah 10:16-19,26,33 (cf. Isaiah 37:36-37).

    "For out of the serpent´ root shall come forth a cockatrice" (Isaiah 14:29b) could refer to Sennacherib king of Assyria subsequently going into Philistia when he came into Judah during the reign of Hezekiah (Isaiah 36:1), the son of Ahaz (2 Kings 16:20).

    Isaiah 14:29-30 could refer to the time of Ahaz (Isaiah 14:28), when the Philistines could have been subjugated by Tilgathpilneser king of Assyria (2 Chronicles 28:18-21) before being subsequently subjugated by another king of Assyria, such as Sennacherib, during his invasion of Judah (Isaiah 36:1-2).

    Isaiah 14:29-32 could have been warning the Philistines not to gloat over the death of Tiglathpileser III, but to fear another invasion from a subsequent king of Assyria: Sennacherib, who could have smote them during the time of his invasion of Judah (Isaiah 36:1).

    Nothing requires that the prophecy of Isaiah 14:29-32 had to be fulfilled subsequent to the prior, separate prophecy of Isaiah 14:25.

    Nothing in Isaiah 14:29-32 requires a future attack by an Assyrian king.

    --

    There are different variations of pre-wrath, depending on what parts of the tribulation are considered to be God's wrath. Some pre-wrathers include the trumpets of the tribulation (Revelation chapters 8-9) in God's wrath, while others only include the vials of the tribulation (Revelation 16). Either way, some pre-wrathers say they are also post-tribbers, because they say that the God's-wrath part of the tribulation isn't tribulation, but wrath.

    Because pre-tribbers say that the entire tribulation is God's wrath, some of them could say that they are also pre-wrathers.

    The rapture will be pre-wrath only insofar as it will occur at the second coming (Revelation 19:7), before the wrath-part of the second coming (Revelation 19:15).

    The pre-vials-of-wrath view isn't the same as the post-trib view in that nothing in the scriptures says that the vials of wrath aren't part of the tribulation, immediately after which Jesus will come to both rapture the church and destroy the Antichrist (Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20).

    Quote: „Actually all views are pre wrath. The difference is what do you think the wrath is. Pretribbers think the entire 7 year tribulation is the wrath, midtribbers think only the 2nd half of the tribulation is the wrath, pre-wrathers think the 7 bowls of wrath is the wrath, and posttribbers think that the destruction of the wicked by fire at the post trib 2nd coming is the wrath. So every view from pretrib-post trib believes the rapture is before the wrath.“

    A: All views aren't pre-wrath, for the post-trib view acknowledges that God's wrath at the final stage of the tribulation (Revelation 16) will begin on the earth before the second coming and rapture and marriage of the church (Revelation 19:7-21, Matthew 24:29-31, 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

    But the post-trib view holds that those in the church who will still be alive on the earth during God's wrath at the final stage of the tribulation, still waiting for Jesus' coming as a thief (Revelation 16:15), won't suffer from God's wrath, for no one who has obtained salvation is appointed to suffer God's wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

    Instead, those in the church who will still be alive on the earth during God's wrath at the final stage of the tribulation will go into protective chambers which they'll have built for themselves on the earth (Isaiah 26:20), just as Noah and his family went into the ark which they'd built for themselves on the earth.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
  10. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
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    It could be, although Habakkuk chapters 1-2 would include the ancient Chaldeans' conquering of various nations, not just Judah. And Habakkuk 3 could extend into the 2nd coming.

    --

    Thank you for all of the old entries that you posted.

    Based on one part of them, I hope to make an addition to paragraph 5 under *Rev. 13:4.

    Thank you for helping me to make this addition to the blog.
     
  11. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

    174
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    Some more old entries for review:


    Officially CREEPED OUT! Obama a Roman god?

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-out-obama-a-roman-god.7278125/#post-48509532

    --

    The exact phrase "little horn" is mentioned only once in Daniel 7: "I considered the horns...

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...orn-mentioned-daniel-7.7332405/#post-51566355

    --

    Satan could send a "messenger" ship a couple of months before his arrival to park itself in orbit...

    http://www.christianforums.com/threads/aliens-coming-oct-14.7295308/page-2#post-49176178

    --

    Aliens 2008

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...eleive-in-aliens.7233279/page-8#post-47195644

    (see also the rest of the thread)

    --

    The wealthy get wealthy off the hard work of others. For example, a factory owner can ...

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ublic-of-the-usa.7270553/page-2#post-48213530

    --

    Mammon 2008

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ou-can-in-the-endtimes.7266303/#post-48043938

    --

    God doesn't hate knowledge, but wants us to obtain all knowledge through his own Holy Spirit: "when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth" (John 16:13); "ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things" (1 John 2:20); "the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him" (1 John 2:27).

    Satan only gives true knowledge when it serves to further his overall plan of deceiving the world into rebellion against God: "Satan, which deceiveth the whole world" (Revelation 12:9). And a lot of the so-called knowledge that Satan gives people is actually his own lies masquerading as the truth: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" (2 Corinthians 11:14). "When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it" (John 8:44).

    An example of Satan's tactics is how he deceived Eve: he told her the truth that eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil would make her and Adam like gods (Genesis 3:5,22), but he mixed this truth together with his lie that if she ate from the tree she wouldn't die (Genesis 3:4), which of course she did, eventually, just as God had said that she would become mortal the day that she disobeyed him and ate from the tree (Genesis 2:17). (For even human "gods" can still die like men: Psalms 82:6-7.) All Satan wanted was to rob Eve of her childlike innocence and get her (and Adam) killed off by God for committing sin: "For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). It's in this way that Satan "was a murderer from the beginning" (John 8:44).

    Satan wants to do the same thing to everyone alive today, including Christians: "I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:3). "Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices" (2 Corinthians 2:11). "The Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils" (1 Timothy 4:1).

    Nobody has said that we should fear the devil. We should not fear him no matter what he can do to us physically (Revelation 2:10, Hebrews 2:14-15, Revelation 12:11,17, 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4, Matthew 10:28).

    While we shouldn't worry about the already-defeated devil (Hebrews 2:14, Luke 10:18-19), we should remain vigilant against his continuing activity (1 Peter 5:8), and know that he can still harm us physically (Revelation 2:10, 12:17), if not spiritually (Luke 10:19, Revelation 12:11).

    We should always be on guard against the devil so that he won't devour us (1 Peter 5:8).

    We should not be ignorant of Satan's devices, lest he take advantage of us (2 Corinthians 2:11, Matthew 10:16, Mark 13:22-23).

    When Lucifer wants to draw men into his clutches, he usually doesn't first appear to them as Lucifer, much less as "Satan" or a red demon with a pitchfork who hates people. Instead, he first appears to them by some other name, and as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14) who only loves and helps people. In this way he gains the admiration of men, he gets them to listen to him, to trust in what he tells them, hoping that sometime later he can very gradually, step by step, degree by degree, initiate them into his ultimate deception.

    --

    Satan isn't the most powerful of all created beings. He'll be bound by an angel at the second coming (Revelation 20:1-3). Before that, at the midpoint of the future tribulation, Michael and his angels will defeat Satan and his angels in a war in heaven (Revelation 12:7-9).

    Satan isn't the wisest of all created beings. He may have started out full of wisdom (Ezekiel 28:12), but he has corrupted his wisdom (Ezekiel 28:17).

    Through his subtlety, the minds of believers can become "corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ" (2 Corinthians 11:3-4,13-15). One way this can happen is that they follow their own lusts (James 1:14) to the point where they can no longer endure the sound doctrine of the Bible, but after their own lusts heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and turn away their ears from the truth, and turn unto fables (2 Timothy 4:3-4).

    "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron" (1 Timothy 4:1-2).

    Jesus said "If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed" (John 8:31).

    So one way to distinguish between the preachers in the churches who are Jesus' disciples from the preachers in the churches who are Satan's ministers (2 Corinthians 11:15), is to see whether they stick close to what the Bible teaches, or instead reject parts of the Bible in order to support people in their lusts.

    ~

    Wikipedia summarizes a few Jewish legends about Leviathian, at least two of which, if true, could shed light on details about Leviathan which the Bible doesn't cover. One legend says that Leviathan was created along with a female Leviathan, whom God subsequently killed lest her progeny overwhelm the earth. This could explain how Leviathan became the archenemy of God: over resentment over the premature death of his wife. There's no way to know if this legend is true or not because the Bible doesn't indicate any particular event in the life of Leviathan which turned him against God. Another possibility is that Leviathan never had a wife, but turned against God over resentment about something else, such as being forced by God to remain on the earth as the "covering cherub" over Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-14) when Leviathan wanted to be in a high position in heaven instead (Isaiah 14:13-14).

    One legend says that Leviathan was created at the time of Genesis 1:21. There's no way to know if this legend is true or not because the Bible doesn't indicate when Leviathan was created. Genesis 1:21 could have occurred only one literal day before Genesis 1:26, which could refer to when God miraculously created modern humans, homo sapiens sapiens, the oldest known fossil of which is claimed to be only about 130,000 years old ("only" when compared with the claimed 4.5 billion-year age of the earth). But what if a Leviathan species was created or had evolved long before modern man was created, back near the end of the age of the dinosaurs, some 68 million years ago, around the time that Tyrannosaurus rex was created or had evolved? The seven-headed individual we now call Leviathan could have been born from a regular one-headed Leviathan dinosaur. His seven-headedness could have arisen by some random, fortuitous mutation in a single embryo, or by the random, chimerical amalgamation of seven separate embryos into one individual, or by the direct, miraculous hand of God working in the womb of Leviathan's mother. Over millions of years Leviathan's dinosaur species could have evolved to have consciousness, and his seven-headed birth could have been greatly heralded by his species as the arrival of a superconsciousness into the world. As he grew up, he could have come to know and worship God with all of his heart. He could have then lived a long life and eventually died of old age. Then, when the age of the dinosaurs finally ended 65 million years ago, he could have been resurrected into immortality and taken into heaven to serve God as a cherubim.

    --

    If the European Commission has divided the world into 10 regions, then when the Antichrist begins his 42-month openly-Luciferian world-reign (Revelation 13:4-8), he could appoint over the 10 world-regions Presidents (or even "Kings", compared to what could his own title of "World Emperor" or "King of Kings"), thus fulfilling Revelation 17:12's requirement that the 10 kings will receive power only during the reign of the Antichrist. If they are appointed by the Antichrist, Revelation 17:13 would mean that they will remain loyal and completely subservient to him.

    Another possibility is that the ten kings of Revelation 17:12 will instead be placed by the Antichrist over 10 major nations the territory of which used to be part of the Roman Empire, for the ten kings of Revelation 17:12 could be the same as the ten toes/kings of Daniel 2:42,44 which extend from the Roman Empire (Daniel 2:40), and the same as the ten horns/kings of Daniel 7:24 which extend from the Roman Empire (Daniel 7:23).

    ...

    Just as the seven kings (Revelation 17:10) could be fallen angels (e.g. Daniel 10:13) over seven empires: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, and Islam; so the ten kings (Revelation 17:12-13) could be fallen angels over the 10 major endtime nations the territory of which used to be part of the Roman Empire (Daniel 7:24, 2:44): Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, Turkey, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, and Algeria.

    The ten toes/horns/kings which come out of the Roman Empire (Daniel 2:40-44, Daniel 7:23-24) could be the same as the ten endtime horns/kings of the Antichrist's Empire (Revelation 17:12); they could be ten major endtime nations the territory of which used to be part of the Roman Empire.

    Satan could place over each of the ten nations a fallen angel as its "king" (in the spiritual realm: cf. Ephesians 6:12). Daniel 2 is about empires (Daniel 2:39-44).

    --

    Because preterism and futurism differ on when things will happen, they necessarily differ on how things will happen. For preterism considers most prophecies to be symbolic descriptions of invisible, spiritual events, which could have occurred sometime in the past, while futurism considers most prophecies to be literal descriptions of visible, physical events, a great many of which have never occurred in the past.

    Because of this difference in their belief in how most prophecies are fulfilled, preterism sees futurism as carnal, only interested in the physical instead of setting its sights on the spiritual, while futurism sees preterism as overly intellectualized, forgetting that God is interested not only in spiritual redemption, but also in complete physical redemption as well (Romans 8:23-25, Luke 24:39, Philippians 3:21, Revelation 21:5).

    The fact that full preterism overthrows the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18) doesn't mean that full preterism in itself is a dead faith, for it in itself is not antithetical to living faith. But it is a faith so intellectualized that some are not equipped to be able to hear its teaching that we are now experiencing Revelation 21:4 without the cognitive dissonance between that belief and the awful suffering we are now experiencing causing them to throw off faith altogether as an empty pipe dream.

    The full-preterist view, if it were true, would indeed be very depressing, for it would mean that God's promise that ultimately believers will experience no more death (Revelation 21:4) has already been fulfilled, even though some believers are still dying every minute; and it would mean that God's promise that ultimately believers will experience no more sorrow (Revelation 21:4) has already been fulfilled, even though some believers are still experiencing sorrow every minute; and it would mean that God's promise that ultimately believers will experience no more crying (Revelation 21:4) has already been fulfilled, even though some believers are still crying every minute; and it would mean that God's promise that ultimately believers will experience no more pain (Revelation 21:4) has already been fulfilled, even though some believers are still experiencing pain every minute. So full preterism would make God's promises utterly worthless and meaningless, causing some believers to even lose their faith (2 Timothy 2:18).

    Everyone will be a preterist only when Revelation 21:4 has come.

    ~

    If amillennialism is understood as that view which sees the "thousand years" of Revelation 20:4-6 not as some literal, discrete time-period which has yet to begin (a la premillennialism), but rather as a merely symbolic reference to an open-ended, ongoing reality experienced by the church in the past, present, and future; then amillennialism could see Daniel 9:24 in the same way: as not referring to some literal, one-time event, but rather to an open-ended, ongoing reality experienced by individuals in the church of all times as they're brought into repentance from sin and into the righteousness of Christ through faith in him (Romans 3:22).

    This would be similar to some preterist positions, which allow for what they consider to be already-fulfilled prophecies to still have application to individuals as they're brought into the condition spoken of by those prophecies. That is, while preterism would see Daniel 9:24 as already fulfilled through the death of Christ on the cross, Christ is still daily bringing new individuals into repentance from sin (ending their sins) and into the reconciliation to God and everlasting righteouness gained by faith in Christ (Colossians 1:20-23).

    An idealist perspective on Daniel 9:24 would fit right in with both a preterist and amillennial one, for all three views could interpret many things in Daniel 9:24 not as literal or physical, but rather as representative of ideal, spiritual things, so that "thy people" (Daniel 9:24) would not be a reference to Daniel's literal, genetic people the Israelites, "my people Israel" (Daniel 9:20), but rather to what could be called the spiritual Israel of the church, consisting of not only all the Jews in the church (Romans 11:1), but also all the Gentiles in the church, who have all been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24), made fellow citizens in Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19), made the very seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:29), so that the entire church is Israel (Revelation 21:9b,12b).

    This would tie in with the fact that the New Covenant was made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34), so that for the church to enter into the New Covenant salvation of Christ (Matthew 26:28, 1 Corinthians 11:25, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), the church would have to be Israel. And if the church is Israel, then even the Gentiles in the church can say to Daniel just what the Gentile Ruth said to the Israelite Naomi: "thy people shall be my people, and thy God my God" (Ruth 1:16).

    An idealist perspective on Daniel 9:24, along with both a preterist and amillennial one, could also see "thy holy city" (Daniel 9:24) as not referring to the earthly city of Jerusalem, but rather to the heavenly Sion, new Jerusalem (Hebrews 12:22); and could see "to anoint the most Holy" (Daniel 9:24) as not referring to some literal, holy of holies chamber within some earthly temple-building in Jerusalem, but rather to the figurative temple of the church (Ephesians 2:20-22).

    The wonderful thing is that all of these interpretations of Daniel 9:24 could be true: all of the requirements of Daniel 9:24 could have been fulfilled spiritually through Jesus' death upon the cross at his first coming, and through his sanctification of the church and all of the individuals who are being added to it daily.

    But, at the same time, Daniel 9:24 could also await a literal, physical fulfillment in the future, at the second coming of Jesus. "Thy people" (Daniel 9:24) could include reference to Daniel's actual, genetic people (Daniel 9:20, Romans 11:1), for all of the unsaved elect Jews who are still alive at the second coming will be saved at that time (Romans 11:25-31, Zechariah 12:10-14). This won't create some false, dispensational entity of an Israel separate from the church, for all of the Jews who will be saved at the second coming will be brought into the church, just as saved Jews have always been brought into the church (1 Corinthians 12:13), for there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

    In Daniel 9:24, "thy holy city" could include reference to Daniel's actual, physical city of the earthly Jerusalem (Daniel 9:16, Revelation 11:2, Matthew 27:53, Nehemiah 11:1,18), for at his second coming Jesus will purge the earthly Jerusalem (Isaiah 4:4) and establish it as the capital of the world during his millennial reign (Zechariah 14:4,8-9, Micah 4:1-4); and "to anoint the most Holy" (Daniel 9:24) could refer to Jesus at his second coming building and sanctifying an actual, physical New Covenant temple-building in Jerusalem for use during the millennium (Zechariah 14:20-21, 6:12-13).

    --

    Sometime after the 1000 years and the battle of Gog and Magog (Revelation 20:7-9, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), John says "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them" (Revelation 20:11). This could mean no place for the earth and its atmosphere (the sky, the first heaven) was found at the great white throne judgment, as opposed to no place for them anywhere at all, as in their being completely annihilated. They could flee away to someplace out of sight where God will burn away the atmosphere and melt the surface of the earth to erase all the works of fallen man upon it: "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Peter 3:10). God could then give the earth a brand-new surface and atmosphere, and bring the earth back into sight after the great white throne judgment: "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea" (Revelation 21:1).

    ~

    Christians won't spend eternity in heaven with God. Instead, God will come down from heaven and spend eternity on a new earth with Christians (Revelation 21:1-4). And Christians will also be given the morning star (Revelation 2:28), which symbolically is Jesus himself (Revelation 22:16), but literally is the second planet from the sun. So it's possible that Christians could be given the second planet from the sun as a project to work on, to terraform it for God. And after that project is completed, the universe is big enough and varied enough for us to stay busy on fascinating projects for all of eternity. But the most fascinating thing will not be what we will be doing, but who we will be coming to know more and more as we serve him: the infinite God Himself. We will have eternity to experience his love and a daily relationship with him, in an ever deeper, more profound way. And there is no boredom at all in knowing God and serving him, for "in thy presence is fulness of joy; at thy right hand there are pleasures for evermore" (Psalms 16:11).

    --

    The best books on endtime prophecy are of course in the Bible itself, such as Matthew 24 and Revelation chapters 6-22. They are straightforward and easy to understand, if we're willing to read them over and over again, and if we've received the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 2:11-16, Acts 19:2,6).

    It also takes a lot of repeated readings of the eschatological books and chapters of the Bible before
    our minds can become accustomed to them and begin to see them clearly and comprehensively.

    So the best way to come into an understanding of eschatology is to receive the Holy Spirit, and then read Daniel, Revelation chapters 6-22, Matthew 24; 2 Thessalonians 2; 1 Corinthians 15; 1 Thessalonians 4, etc., over and over again, at least 100 times each. This is not so hard when we put aside TV-watching, gossiping, and general laziness (2 Timothy 2:15).

    Everything we need to know about the end times is contained in the scriptures (Mark 13:23, Revelation 1:1, 22:16, Daniel 12:4). If the picture they present is put together correctly, one finds that no piece of the puzzle is missing.

    We shouldn't necessarily go along with any assumption held by even the vast majority of people, regarding eschatology or any other matter, for the vast majority of people are lost (Matthew 7:13-14). We need to test every assumption to see if it lines up with God's word (Acts 17:11).

    Actually, no book of the Bible is a stand-alone book, in the sense that each book in the Bible must be understood within the context of all the rest of the Bible. That's why the book of Revelation is part of the Bible and not on its own. We arrive at correct doctrine by comparing what different books of the Bible say about things (Isaiah 28:9-10, 1 Corinthians 2:13).

    Those who trust in Christ must reject any so-called "prophecies" which contradict the scriptural prophecies. But Christians simply sharing their ideas about what the fulfillment of the endtime scriptural prophecies could look like in the future are almost never getting carried away in man-made "prophecies", for almost never do Christians sharing various possible future scenarios say "Thus saith the Lord" (or something to the same effect) in relation to those scenarios, as if those scenarios were infallible "prophecies" directly from God himself, instead of simply being possible ways in which the endtime scriptural prophecies could be fulfilled.

    If our interpretation of anything in Revelation is based on anything outside of the scriptures themselves, that interpretation is, at best, correct, so long as it doesn't contradict any scripture. But even if that interpretation doesn't contradict any scripture, it could still turn out to be incorrect. Only time will tell in such an instance.

    --

    A made-up story doesn't have to be a lie. Parables are made-up stories, but they aren't lies, but rather extended similes which illustrate some true teaching. Similarly, proposed scenarios which could possibly fulfill prophetic scriptures aren't lies, but real possibilites we should be prepared to see happen, if they are in line with those scriptures.

    The use of words like "could" in the futurist scenarios which are being presented simply means that what's being presented is a viable possibility for how Bible prophecy will be fulfilled. How has what's been presented been proven to be not a viable possibility? Hasn't it simply been opposed by someone else's interpretations? One of the purposes of this forum is to discuss competing interpretations of various scriptures, and see which interpretations line up best with what other, related scriptures say (Isaiah 28:9-10, 1 Corinthians 2:13).

    … it's always wise in referring to details of future events which aren't explicitly stated in scripture, to often say such and such "could" happen to fulfill a prophetic scripture, for to be too adamant over details could leave one open to being blindsided by things turning out not as one had expected. It's best to keep the details tentative so as to be ready for anything to happen, but at the same time it's important to discuss proposed details so that if they end up happening we won't be blindsided by them happening, but will have already prepared ourselves to see them happen.

    While Christians don't yet know how every detail of Bible prophecy will be fulfilled, they do know that every detail will be fulfilled (Matthew 24:34-35, Revelation 1:1). So if any idea contradicts any detail of Bible prophecy, that idea is incorrect.

    If we disagree with someone's ideas regarding how Bible prophecy could be fulfilled, but we're unable to prove those ideas wrong from the scriptures themselves, we can try to justify our rejection of the ideas by ignoring them and focusing instead on only how the ideas have been presented.

    For example, if the ideas have been presented as possibilities ("this 'could' happen"), then we can try to justify our rejection of the ideas by saying that they're merely theories, which we're not interested in. And if the same ideas are presented as "beliefs", then we can try to justify our rejection of them by saying that they're merely "private interpretations" (2 Peter 1:20). And if the same ideas are presented as definite facts, we can try to justify our rejection of them by saying that they're merely arrogant presumptions. And if the same ideas are presented as divine revelations, we can try to justify our rejection of them by saying that they're merely the mad ramblings of a pseudo-prophet (Jeremiah 29:26b).

    It's neither unprofitable nor vain for believers to propose and consider different scenarios that "could" fulfill an eschatological prophecy, so long as these scenarios are continually tested against what the scriptures themselves say. For we don't want to get locked into our own little theories too tightly in case they're wrong; we should always be prepared to see other scenarios occur which will fulfill the scriptures.

    Regarding Proverbs 30:6 and Revelation 22:18-19, they would apply to one adding or removing words from a scriptural quotation and then presenting that altered quotation as if it were the original scripture. Proverbs 30:6 and Revelation 22:18-19 do not apply to believers discussing what the scriptures could mean, for otherwise no discussion could ever take place; all believers could do is quote scriptures back and forth without any comments whatsoever.

    If one interprets Proverbs 30:6 and Revelation 22:18-19 in this wrong, latter sense, one's claiming that a certain proposed prophetic scenario is definitely false, even though it's in line with the prophetic scriptures and no prophetic scripture contradicts it, would be adding to the prophetic scriptures no less than saying that a certain proposed prophetic scenario could actually occur.

    And of course everyone thinks that his pet scenario is just what the scriptures themselves say, that he isn't adding anything whatsoever to the scriptures, until other people come along and show him that his long-held assumptions about what those scriptures mean aren't necessarily required by what the scriptures themselves say.

    The same unfulfilled prophetic scripture could be fulfilled in any one of various ways, so we need to remain open to seeing any one of various possible fulfillments. It's in no way unprofitable or vain to explore these, and so become prepared no matter which one actually happens.

    We mustn't ever confuse our own personal, longtime view of what some prophetic scriptures could mean, with what the scriptures themselves actually say, for what the scriptures themselves actually say could be fulfilled in a way different than what we've come up with in our own little pet theory.

    --

    It's okay to see if any current events might match any of the events prophesied by the Bible, for eventually they will match. And any mistaken matches, i.e. any mistaken claim that a current event is the fulfillment of a certain Biblical prophecy, will eventually be shown to be mistaken, when details of the prophecy and/or related prophecies don't actually occur.

    For example, it was okay for someone to surmise that Russia's invasion of a part of the country of Georgia was a sign of the imminent fulfillment of the Biblical prophecy related to Gog and Magog invading Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39). But when Russia didn't invade Israel, Russia's invasion of Georgia was shown to be unrelated to that prophecy.

    Newspaper exegesis can be helpful in keeping Biblical prophecy alive in the minds of believers, so that they seek to learn it, remember it, study its details, and remain alert to its fulfillment. The discussion of possible fulfillments can only aid believers in coming to a better understanding of Biblical prophecy.

    When someone surmised that Russia's invasion of Georgia was related to the prophecy of Gog and Magog, this opened a profitable discussion of that prophecy which revealed that it will be fulfilled after the millennium (Revelation 20:7-9), and that nothing in Ezekiel chapters 38-39 requires that it will be fulfilled before the millennium, or involve the current nation of Russia.

    Preterists hate newspaper exegesis because they think that Biblical prophecy has been fulfilled. But while they rail against futurists for searching the newspaper for any possible fulfillments, no matter how strained, preterists themselves search ancient newspapers, as it were, search ancient histories, for any possible fulfillments, no matter how strained.

    So all believers partake in newspaper exegesis to some extent, it just depends on how old the newspapers are in which they search.

    --

    The horses and chariots of Zechariah 6:2-7 are literal (spiritual) horses and chariots which could have been driven by four angels sent forth from heaven to the earth by God back in the time of Zechariah.

    The first horse and rider of Revelation 6:2 could represent the gospel of Christ (the rider on the white horse in Revelation 19:11) going forth to the nations (Matthew 24:14).

    The second horse and rider of Revelation 6:4 represents a great war which will begin the tribulation. The "great sword" could represent nuclear weapons being used.

    The third horse and rider of Revelation 6:5-6 represents famine, which could come on account of the great war.

    The fourth horse and rider of Revelation 6:8 represents the death which will come to one-fourth of the world from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics.

    ... all of the other, myriad tribulation events of Revelation 6:12-17:2 have to occur, including a subsequent killing of one-third of mankind at the hands of an army of demonic horsemen (Revelation 9:16-18).

    Jesus will return on a [literal (probably spiritual)] white horse (Revelation 19:11,19,21) and the church will come back down from the sky (the first heaven) on [literal (probably spiritual)] white horses (Revelation 19:14) [at the second coming], and the horses of the armies of the world will be slain and eaten by birds (Revelation 19:18).

    --

    Quote: „Do I pray to Jesus or god or both“

    A: Jesus told us to pray to God the Father (Matthew 6:9-13), but we might also pray to Jesus (John 14:13-14). For Jesus is also God (Jn. 1:1,14, 10:30, 20:28, Titus 2:13, Philip. 2:6, Mt. 1:23).

    --

    New-Age Bibles would get rid of hellfire (Luke 16:23-24, Mark 9:45-46) and eternal damnation (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, 14:10-11).

    New-Age Bibles would get rid of the idea of sins (Romans 1:24-32) and the necessity of repentance and faith in Jesus while we're still alive (Luke 13:3, John 8:24, 1 John 5:16, Hebrews 10:26-29).

    New-Age Bibles would get rid of the necessity of faith in Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God, and his death on the cross for our sins and his rising from the dead on the third day, as a requirement for eternal life (John 3:36, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4), and would teach reincarnation and (what it would call) "many paths to the realization that we are God".

    --

    "The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works" (Psalms 145:9). Here the original Hebrew word translated as "all" can simply mean "all manner of"; it doesn't have to mean absolutely all. For example, the same Hebrew word is used in Leviticus 19:23 to refer to the Israelites planting "all manner of" trees for food, not absolutely all trees for food. Indeed, almost all trees for food haven't been planted by the Israelites.

    For another example, the same Hebrew word is used in 1 Chronicles 22:15 to refer to "all manner of" cunning men being with Solomon, not absolutely all cunning men. Indeed, almost all cunning men haven't been with Solomon. For another example, the same Hebrew word is used in Nehemiah 13:16 to refer to "all manner of" merchandise being sold in Judah by men from Tyre, not absolutely all merchandise. Indeed, almost all merchandise hasn't been sold in Judah by men from Tyre.

    --

    Matthew 25:10's bridal chamber will be in the clouds of the sky at the second coming of Jesus (Revelation 19:7, 1 Thessalonians 4:17), immediately after the tribulation of Matthew 24/Revelation chapters 6-18 (Matthew 24:29-31).
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  12. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Thank you for re-posting these old posts.

    Based on parts of them, I hope to add a new (1st) section under *Mt. 25:10; add a new (3rd) section under *2 Thes. 2:1; add 2 paragraphs to the *Newspaper section under *Rev. chs. 6-22; and add a 4th section under *Rev. 20:11.

    Thank you for helping me to make these additions to the blog.

    --

    Below are links to the blog's posts (for any lurkers who may want to read them).

    http://www.christianforums.com/xfa-...ble2-blog-posts-genesis-to-revelation.198504/
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2015
  13. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

    174
    +5
    Christian
    Private
    Some more old entries for review:



    Paul was using hyperbole to try to make the Corinthians ashamed ...

    http://www.christianforums.com/threads/2-corinthians-11-8.7247049/#post-47348923

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    Hollywood 2008

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-major-role-in-the-end.7286007/#post-48781025

    --

    TV Preachers 2012

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...d-pawson-says-no.7633797/page-3#post-60052698

    --

    The Martyrdom of the Multitude

    http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-martyrdom-of-the-multitude.7296206/#post-49351434

    --

    the-created-temple-of-god-which-is-in-the-created-heavens

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...in-the-created-heavens.7259341/#post-48021132

    --

    Israel's fight with Hamas won't effectively take out Hamas, just as Israel's fight with …

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...nning-of-the-end.7325453/page-2#post-50284435

    --

    (http://www.christianforums.com/threads/babylon-usa-and-the-globalist-beast.7265399/#post-48053751)

    Wealth redistribution is Biblical; it was practiced by the early church (Acts 4:34-35, 2:45), which owned all things in common (Acts 4:32, 2:44).

    Socialism, even Communism, in itself isn't ugly, for those in the early Church were full-on Communists in that they didn't have any private property, but "had all things in common" (Acts 4:32).

    The Christian version of full-on Communism in Acts 4:32 was completely different than Marxism in that the Christian version of full-on Communism in Acts 4:32 was a Theocracy ruled by the apostles of Jesus Christ, so that people were killed under it only by the Holy Spirit Himself, for holding wealth back for themselves while claiming that they had given everything to the Church (Acts 5:1-11). [When fallible humans try to establish Theocracies, of no matter what religion, there's no assurance that it will be a good thing. Better to wait for the infallible Jesus to return from heaven to establish His Millennial Theocracy (Zechariah 14:9-21, Revelation 20:4-6).] While Marxism, on the other hand, as practiced under Stalin and Mao, was an atheistic dictatorship under the control of a single, evil individual who killed anyone who threatened (or even might someday threaten) his continued rule in the slightest way.

    Also, the Christian version of full-on Communism in Acts 4:32 was completely different than Marxism in that the Christian version of full-on Communism in Acts 4:32 was one truly shared by its leaders; the apostles didn't make themselves wealthy (cf. 1 Corinthians 4:9-13), nor did they set up a Church system whereby the church leaders got wealthy while the rest of the Church remained in poverty. While Marxism, on the other hand, as practiced under Stalin and Mao, was not a Communism shared by its leaders. Stalin and Mao and the higher echelons of their Communist Parties lived in splendid wealth while the masses were starving to death in the collectivized farm fields, or living in vile collectivized hovels and slaving away in squalid collectivized factories.

    Q: Why don't Christians share their finances today as the early church did?

    A: For one thing, the early Church was led by the apostles of Jesus Christ, who could be trusted as being truly appointed by God, and not self-appointed, and who could be trusted not to embezzle any of the money given to the Church to further their own personal wealth, or to start boondoggle seven-million-dollar "prayer center" construction projects so that they could feel important, instead of just having people pray together in their common-homes and using the seven million dollars to actually help poor people with adequate food, clothing, and shelter.

    Q: Why don't all Christians give 100% to the church so that they can share with those in need?

    A: Because the Church as it's set up today may not share with those in need more than a small fraction of the money it's given. Most of the money could go to benefit the personal lifestyles of Church leaders, or to pay million-dollar child-abuse judgments against Church priests, or to build and maintain fancy Church buildings which are completely unnecessary. For Christians can hold church meetings in their common-houses (Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19b, Colossians 4:15, Philemon 1:2), where the number of congregants can be kept small enough to where everyone can contribute something to every meeting (1 Corinthians 14:26), instead of sitting in the stadium-pews of Mega-churches and merely watching an entertainment up on a distant stage.

    If we could just strip away all the unnecessary Church buildings and rich lifestyles of Church leaders, we could find that no collections of money would ever need to be made at Church meetings. Everyone in the Church who is able to work could support themselves, and those unable to work could be supported by alms donated by working Church members. And if insufficient donations were received to support all the needy in the Church, an "alms tax" could be instituted by the Church on its members, but only at a percentage of income which will meet the needs of the poor who are unable to work, not a percentage which will create a surplus which Church leaders can then misuse on themselves and on unnecessary Church construction projects to build buildings which will help them to feel important.

    --

    Matthew 25:1-13 is referring to the same second coming as Luke 12:36. Matthew 25:1-13 is addressing the same Church as Luke 12:36. But both Matthew 25:1-13 and Luke 12:36 are only parables; they are only trying to give a sense of what the second coming will be "like", and what the Church is to be "like" preceding that second coming.

    The Church is to be "like" servants waiting for their master to come back from the wedding festivities that follow a wedding and can go long into the night (Luke 12:36-38). The Church is to be "like" virgins waiting for the bridegroom even though he may not come until midnight (Matthew 25:5). The details of the parables contradict, but they are only parables, so the details don't matter, what matters is the consistent idea of both parables: the Church must stay awake spiritually until the second coming (Matthew 25:13, Luke 12:40).

    Those who don't make it to the parable-wedding in Matthew 25:1-13 are lost; the bridegroom denies that he even knows them (Matthew 25:12, cf. 7:21-23), just as those servants who aren't ready to open the door for their master when he comes back, no matter how late in the night, are lost; the master will come on them like a thief (Luke 12:39) and destroy them (Matthew 24:50-51).

    Matthew 25:1-13 is referring to the same coming of Jesus that He had just finished saying won't happen until after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31). Jesus nowhere says that His coming will be before the tribulation.

    Matthew 25:1-13 is addressed to the same Church as Matthew 24:9-31. There are no chapter breaks in the Greek manuscripts: Matthew 24:9-25:13 is one single teaching to one single Church: stay spiritually awake for the second coming, which won't happen until after midnight, after the tribulation.

    The marriage of the Church to Jesus won't happen until Revelation 19:7, after the tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18. The Church will go through the tribulation (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4). The rapture will be after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8). [Jesus is not going to marry just part of the Church while another part is suffering and dying in the tribulation. That would be very unseemly.]

    --

    Those who think that the smallest letter of the old covenant law is still in effect better get cracking fulfilling every last part of it, or else they are under its terrible curse (Galatians 3:10). For example, they better have blue ribbons and fringes on the borders of their clothes (Numbers 15:38), and they better not wear any clothes made up of more than one substance (Deuteronomy 22:11).

    And if the same people want to claim that Jesus fulfilled all such things so that we don't have to, then they would have to also say that Jesus fulfilled the old covenant one-day-of-the-week Sabbath so that we don't have to. Otherwise they'd have to admit that Jesus didn't follow the old covenant one-day-of-the-week Sabbath and so didn't fulfill it.

    --

    Revelation 11:1b-10 could be a speech by an angel to John, but what comes after that John saw in a vision; that's why the tense changes to past tense beginning with verse 11.

    John could have been told Revelation 11:2-10, much of which is in the future tense. But John saw Revelation 11:11-19, much of which is in the past tense.

    --

    Revelation 12:10 doesn't mean that salvation, strength, the kingdom of God, and the power Christ hadn't come before that time, or that they won't come after that time, for these things had come before that time (e.g. Luke 19:9, 17:21, Romans 14:17, Matthew 28:18), and these things will come after that time (e.g. Zechariah 12:10-14, Luke 13:28-29, Revelation 19:11-21); all Revelation 12:10 means is that the defeat of Satan and his casting down (Revelation 12:7-9) will be a wonderful instance of the manifestation of these things.

    --

    The text of the third secret officially released by Pope John Paul II in 2000 could have been the real secret revealed by Lucia, but only part of the secret, for the Vatican could assert truthfully that what was released "is the secret" without having to say "it is all of the secret". (Cf. in the U.S. when people are placed under oath they have to swear to not only tell the truth, but also the "whole" truth.)

    Catholics still believe in the Fatima prophecies, at least the ones which have been released so far. The prophecies of the Third Secret of Fatima have only been released in part by the Pope, and what's been released foretells a Pope and many in the hierarchy and laity of the Catholic Church being killed by soldiers.

    It's said that some other prophecies of the Third Secret that haven't been released (officially) foretell global cataclysm involving fire and smoke falling from the sky so that the waters of the oceans will be turned into steam and thrown into the sky and over land masses killing millions of people. And that Satan will find his way into the highest positions of the Catholic Church, and a sort of civil war within the Catholic Church will come about to where cardinals will be against cardinals and bishops against bishops. And things will end up so that Satan's henchmen will be the only rulers on the earth.

    But it's foretold that the terrible time will end and there will be survivors who will serve God.

    None of this contradicts anything in the Bible. In fact, it makes sense in the context of Biblical prophecies of the coming tribulation. For the Bible foretells fire falling from the sky (Revelation 8:7) and a great burning mountain which will fall into the ocean (Revelation 8:8-9), which would cause a tremendous tsunami which would sweep over land masses and kill millions of people. And Satan (Lucifer) could have already found his way into the highest positions of the Catholic Church, for there could be one, or even more than one cardinal who is secretly a Luciferian. When the current Pope dies (possibly by secret poisoning), a secretly-Luciferian cardinal could be elected as the next Pope, and could subsequently become the False Prophet of the Antichrist, who will eventually bring the whole world into the worship of Lucifer the dragon (Revelation 13:4).

    --

    The mark of the beast may not be simply partaking in any non-Christian system of authority, for Jesus said to render to Caesar that which is Caesar's (Luke 20:25), and Jesus even had Peter pay the tribute poll tax for both Peter and Jesus (Matthew 17:24-27), just as Paul said to pay one's tribute taxes to whatever authorities God had placed over one (Romans 13:1-7).

    There will be a spiritual aspect to the mark in that it will be associated with the worship of the Antichrist, and the worship of a living, speaking image of the Antichrist (Revelation 14:9-11, 13:15).

    While the mark could be a physical scar, at the same time one's willingness to receive the mark could show that one thinks that the Antichrist is God (as he will claim to be, 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and that one worships the Antichrist and his image (Revelation 14:9) and worships the dragon Lucifer who will be giving the Antichrist his power (Revelation 13:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:9).

    The mark of the Antichrist will be forced insofar as people won't be able to buy anything unless they have the mark (Revelation 13:17). And even if one refuses the mark and gets someone else with the mark to buy one's food, one still won't be able to avoid the worship of the image of the Antichrist, insofar as anyone who refuses to worship his image will be killed (Revelation 13:15), by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4).

    When the actual mark of the Antichrist arrives, there will be no question to believers what it is, for the mark will be connected with the worship of the Antichrist and his living, speaking image (Revelation 14:9, 13:15).

    It could be sold as a "Mark of Unity" whereby one swears allegiance to all of humanity, and to Lucifer the dragon and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4) as (what they could call) "the Saviors of Mankind, who have brought us all together to see us through this terrible time of tribulation".

    Anyone who refuses the mark could be called a "Hater of Humanity, someone who wants mankind to remain divided and at war so that it will utterly perish".

    Q: Why can taking the mark of the Beast not been forgiven, the only sin that can not been forgiven is Mark 3:22-30?

    A: The former (Revelation 14:9-11) could include a requirement that one also expressly blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

    --

    The ground around the little Islamic "Dome of the Tablets/Spirits" (probably built in remembrance of some Islamic tablets and spirits) has been paved over with tight-fitting stones. Nothing requires that the first two temples stood there instead of over the Rock of Sacrifice.

    It must have been some Muslim tablets/spirits, for even the Muslim Arabs know that the Rock of Sacrifice in the Dome of the Rock is the place right where the first two temples stood, which was right where Abraham was commanded to sacrifice Ishmael (they say Ishmael instead of Isaac).

    The eastern gate of the current Islamic wall surrounding the Old City of Jerusalem, the Islamic Gate of Mercy, should not be confused with the no-longer-existing Eastern Gate of the second Jewish temple, built on top of the Temple Mount. Neither should it be confused with the no-longer-existing eastern gate in the no-longer-existing Jewish wall surrounding the Temple Mount at the time of the second temple, the Jewish Shushan Gate.

    --

    Quote: „I have been telling any demons to leave, I think that one thing they were doing was whispering in my ear that they had a right to be there“

    A: "There" could be your new flat, which could have been dedicated to Satan by a previous occupant (who could have performed all manner of awful sacrifices and rites there in the worship of Satan). So get some people in your deliverance ministry to come over and cast the demons out of your new flat and dedicate the flat to Jesus Christ. Ask Jesus to fill your new flat with his Holy Spirit and with guardian angels. Walk around the flat with your deliverance-team members praying and anointing the flat's walls, ceiling, floor, doors, and windows with oil and sprinkled water in the name of Jesus Christ, to symbolize the Holy Spirit filling your new flat and cleansing it spiritually by his power.

    ~

    Quote: „I think that most of these feelings are caused by demons.“

    A: Not necessarily, although that could be true in some cases, for evil spiritual forces are very real (Ephesians 6:12-18). In most cases, however, it could simply be a poor diet and a lack of exercise that is making people feel awful.

    --

    The dead works of Hebrews 9:14 (cf. 10:22,2) would be any sin (Galatians 5:19-21), not works of faith (James 2:24, 1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6).

    --

    The devil rules the world only one time, but it could be quite a long time, for his rule of the world could have begun before his fall, when he could have been placed as the "covering cherub" over Eden and Adam (Ezekiel 28:13-15) roughly around 4,000 B.C.

    Then, after his fall, because of the fall of man the fallen devil could have been allowed by God to remain the ruler of the fallen world, so that the devil could have truly been given by God all the kingdoms of the world as the devil stated to Jesus:

    "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine" (Luke 4:5-7).

    While Jesus rejected this offer, the Antichrist will accept it, and so will become the ruler of the world by the power of the devil: "and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat [thronos], and great authority ... and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (Revelation 13:2,7).

    So the Antichrist will be sitting on the world-throne of the devil (cf. Revelation 2:12-13) during his world reign, which will last 42 months (Revelation 13:5b).

    It won't be until after these 42 months are over that the seventh trumpet of the tribulation will sound, and Jesus Christ will take de jure rule over the world (Revelation 11:15). So this will mean the legal end of both the 6,000 year reign of the devil, and the 42-month reign of the Antichrist. It is at this point that the vials of God's wrath could be poured out as judgment on the Antichrist and his followers (Revelation 16). It won't be until after these vials of wrath are over that Jesus will return from heaven and take de facto rule over the world during the millennium (Revelation 19:11-20:6).

    After the millennium, nothing says that the devil will reign again, only that he will deceive nations into attacking Israel (Revelation 20:7-9).

    So the devil won't reign twice, but his one-time reign could stretch all the way from the time of Adam to the time when the 42-month reign of the Antichrist will end.

    That's why "the whole world lieth in wickedness" (1 John 5:19), and why "we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" (Ephesians 6:12).

    --

    If by "Big Foot VS Atlantic Great White Shark", and Matthew 24:11, one means "a clash of the Titans" in the endtimes, this will indeed be what it will be like during the 42-month reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5b, cf. 11:2b-3, 12:6,14), for the two witnesses will operate with tremendous power from God during that time (Revelation 11:3-6) [to show that God is not dead or powerless, but still alive and well in heaven], while the Antichrist and his False Prophet will operate with tremendous power from Satan (Revelation 13:4-18; 2 Thessalonians 2:9). [But the Antichrist will nonetheless be allowed to make war against the church and overcome it (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4, Matthew 24:9-13), except for a remnant of the church which will have fled into protected wilderness places (Revelation 12:6-17).]

    --

    Jesus forbids Christians to use any force against those they consider (whether rightly or wrongly) to be their enemies (Matthew 26:52, 5:39). All that's allowed is excommunication (2 Thessalonians 3:14-15, 1 Corinthians 5:11-13).

    --

    1 Corinthians 1:22 and 2 Corinthians 5:7 mean that those in the church don't require a sign to believe in and follow Jesus. 1 Corinthians 1:22 and 2 Corinthians 5:7 don't mean that Jesus didn't tell to the church the sign of his second coming (Matthew 24:3,30) and all that must precede that second coming (Mark 13:23, Revelation 1:1, 22:16; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

    --

    The "first resurrection" of those in the Church who are martyred by the Antichrist (Revelation 20:4-6) is the same mass resurrection as the resurrection of the Church as a whole: the resurrection at the second coming (1 Corinthians 15:22-23), at the last trump (1 Corinthians 15:52-53), which is the post-tribulation trump of Matthew 24:29-31 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

    The dispensational fable, on the other hand, would have a first mass resurrection that's actually second, a second coming that's actually third, and a last trumpet that's actually 9th from last (before the seven trumpets of the tribulation and the subsequent post-tribulation trumpet). It would make nonsense of scripture, just so some people can try to soothe their unfaced fear of going through the coming tribulation.

    The only reason that some in the Church started to want to separate themselves from Israel was because they didn't want the Church to have to go through the coming tribulation. The dispensational schism between the Church and Israel was invented solely as a support for the dispensational fable of a pre-tribulation rapture.

    The fact is that the Church is Israel (Revelation 21:9b,12b); the Church will have to go through the coming tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:10, 14:12-13, 20:4). Christ will not come to gather together (rapture) the Church until after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27); Christ's coming to gather together (rapture) the Church must destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).

    It is only those who have not dealt yet with their fear of going through the coming tribulation who latch onto dispensationalism's fables as if their lives depended on it, regardless of what the scriptures themselves say (2 Timothy 4:2-4). Any scripture which shows believers in the tribulation is automatically rejected as applying "only to the Jews", as if somehow a believing Jew can be outside of the Church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-5), and as if the great multitude of believers from every nation, people, and kindred, which will die in the tribulation (Revelation 7:9,14) is somehow all Jewish.

    But no believer's life depends on dispensationalism's fables, for the lives of believers are in Christ, not in this temporary mortal life (Colossians 3:3, 2 Corinthians 4:18), which believers must hate (John 12:25) and have no fear of losing (Hebrews 2:15, Revelation 2:10, 21:8), even in the coming tribulation, when believers will be blessed in their deaths (Revelation 14:12-13), just as believers of all times have been blessed in their deaths as they were brought into the presence of Jesus in heaven (2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:21,23).

    The pre-trib view does neglect many prophecies; it doesn't take every one into account. One way that it does this is to assume for no scriptural reason that the righteous individuals in the tribulation are not members of the church, despite the fact no one can be righteous apart from faith in Jesus Christ (Romans 3:22), and no one who has faith in Jesus Christ is outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

    No scripture teaches a pre-trib rapture, so those who deny it are only denying a man-made invention. The scriptures expressly state that the rapture is after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31, cf. Revelation 19:7). Jesus' coming to gather together the church must destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, cf. Revelation 19:20). The church will go through the tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4).

    The Bible nowhere says that the Lord is coming two times, once for the Church and then again to come with His saints to rule the earth during the millennium. The Bible nowhere refers to the future "comings" (plural) of Jesus, but only to the one future "coming" of Jesus: the second coming (Hebrews 9:28)

    --

    Antiochus III could have fulfilled Daniel 11:13 by, through an alliance with Philip V of Macedon, raising a large army to invade the Ptolemaic kingdom, which was centered in Egypt and at that time extended up to Sidon.

    The Jews could have fulfillled Daniel 11:14 by helping Antiochus III.

    Antiochus III could have fulfilled Daniel 11:15 by defeating the Ptolemaic armies in Sidon and Palestine.

    But these verses could have a future fulfillment, just as Daniel 11:31 will have a future fulfillment, per Matthew 24:15, even though it could have been fulfilled by Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 168 BC (1 Maccabees 1:54).
     
  14. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

    +374
    Christian
    Private
    Thank you for re-posting these.

    Based on one part of them, I hope to add a new blog entry under *2 Cor. 11:8.

    Thank you for helping me to make this addition to the blog.
     
  15. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

    174
    +5
    Christian
    Private
    Regarding your blog, there are two possible typos in it, see the bold passages:


    *1 Thessalonians 4:17

    (Re: The *rapture / *rapiemur / *harpazo / Does Jesus ever mention a rapture?)

    ... after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24 (Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).
    2:1-8, Revelation 19:7 to 20:6).


    --

    *Romans 15:19 / *Rom. 15:19 -

    (Re: Why is it Jesus won't give *signs and wonders?)

    Note that Jesus does give signs and wonders (Romans 15:19; 2 Corinthians 12:12, Acts 5:12, Acts 8:13, Acts 14:3, John 20:30, Mark 16:17,20, Hebrews 2:4, Acts 2:22,43, Acts 4:30, Acts 6:8, Acts 8:6,13, Acts 15:12, Acts 19:11; 1 Corinthians 12:10,28).

    --


    Some more old entries, but I think there are no more coming. In case I missed one or find some „new old ones“ I would add them to further questions in this thread.


    http://www.christianforums.com/threads/the-bad-news-of-the-good-news.7260324/

    (see the whole thread)

    Quote: Who in their right mind would say, "I truly believe in God, but I don't want His love. I reject Him. So, I choose the torments of everlasting torture in hell"

    A: Someone in their right mind could say that, if they thought in the following way: "Look, I can't serve any God who would torture people forever. I don't care how loving He is to some other people, He is still a monster. He's like some mafia boss who loves and takes care of 'his people' while ruthlessly murdering anyone who crosses him in the slightest way. I'm unwilling to lick the boots of such a beast, no matter what the consequences".

    Of course, it's easy to say such things without really meaning them, in the sense that if push came to shove you might very well be willing to lick the boots of a mafia boss if he was holding the point of a knife to the back of your neck. You could say that you still wouldn't lick his boots, but deep down you could be saying that because you don't think that you will ever have to really face that choice, or you have no idea how you would really react if you did wind up facing that choice.

    It could be the same way with those who say that they would rather roast in hell than bow down and worship a God who would roast people in hell. It's easy to say that when deep down you don't think that you will ever have to really face that choice.

    This could be most true for hard-core Luciferians/Satanists, who could put on a great show of bluff of their hatred for God, that they would rather suffer forever in the lake of fire with their loving Lord Lucifer than have to watch Lucifer suffer alone at the hands of a cruel, tyrant God.

    This would hold true also for those who claim that they would rather suffer forever in the lake of fire with their unsaved loved ones (such as their unsaved children, spouses, parents, lovers, or friends) than have to stand outside looking in at them screaming in their torture, and then have to turn and bow down and worship "the monster" torturing them. But people who say that just show that they love some people more than God, and so are not worthy of Him (Matthew 10:37).

    The Luciferians/Satanists could also be willing to make the claim that they would be willing to go to hell because deep down they don't think that they ever will have to. The dragon Lucifer could tell them that he and his "Son" the Antichrist are the real God (Revelation 13:4-8) and that YHWH is just a phony little impostor who will be defeated at the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16, 19:19). Some people could really believe this, and so act quite bold against YHWH without any fear that they will ever truly end up in hellfire.

    Another reason someone could be willing to make the claim that they would be willing to go to hell rather than worship God is simple pride: they could think that they are so intelligent, so magnificent, so important, so precious to God that He could not possibly ever cast them into hell. It would be just "too much of a waste"; God would have to relent and spare them in the end so as not to lose one of His greatest treasures, one of His most precious children.

    None of the cases listed above require that someone not be in their right mind to claim that they are rejecting God and choosing hell instead. People in their right mind say things all the time that deep down they don't really mean because deep down they think that it's just a hypothetical that will never really happen. And people in their right mind can love other people more than God. And people in their right mind can believe lies, whether of Lucifer or men, instead of what the Bible teaches. And people in their right mind can be prideful and extremely vain.

    --

    http://www.christianforums.com/threads/luke-21-24-shows-it-is-future.7268904/page-2#post-48146551 (see also page 3 + 4)

    A red heifer without three white hairs could be obtained before the Orthodox Jews rebuild the temple. Or, they could simply decide to reject that non-scriptural, man-invented three-hair requirement and just take any red heifer which fulfills Numbers 19:2, just as they could reject any other insurmountable merely man-made requirements for rebuilding the temple. And they could decide, for example, that Orthodox Jews named "Cohen" must be descended from the Aaronic priesthood.

    And if they are led by some false Orthodox Jewish "Messiah", he could pronounce all sorts of "dispensations from God" allowing this or that exception, so that (as he could say) "we might do God's will and commence the greater, ultimate good of rebuilding His Temple". And genealogies could be (as he could claim) "miraculously revealed" to the Messiah so that he might appoint "by the hand of God" an Aaronic high priest and Levites to serve in the temple.

    ~

    It doesn't complicate the plain words of John to read Revelation 1:1 in the plain light of 2 Peter 3:8, but makes perfect sense. For we aren't to think that God has been slack in fulfilling His promise (2 Peter 3:9) of a "soon" second coming of Revelation 1:1,7, 19:11-20:6, 22:20, as some men count slackness (2 Peter 3:9), but must remember that to God a thousand years are as a single day (2 Peter 3:8).

    But boy how one has to complicate the plain words of John in Revelation chapters 6-18 to try to get them all to fit into 70 AD. So what partial preterists have to do is basically ignore Revelation chapters 6-18, saying that they're just highly symbolic in ways that no one really understands, so why bother trying to explain how each verse of Revelation chapters 6-18 was fulfilled in 70 AD?

    What's really funny is how the partial preterists insist with all their might that the one word "soon" (or "shortly") in Revelation 1:1 has to be taken totally literally, but that almost all of the rest of Revelation chapters 6-18 mustn't be taken literally at all.

    Futurists, on the other hand, take the much more sensible course of reading the one word "soon" (or "shortly") in Revelation 1:1 in the plain light of 2 Peter 3:8-9, which makes perfect sense, and then take almost all of John's other plain words in Revelation chapters 6-18 literally.

    The first three chapters of Revelation clearly contain some symbolism (e.g. Revelation 1:20), but the seven churches of the first three chapters of Revelation aren't "church ages", but seven first-century local church congregations in the Roman province of "Asia" (Revelation 1:4,11b).

    After the first three chapters of Revelation are over, John is taken up into heaven in Revelation 4:1 to be shown the future events of Revelation chapters 6-22, which events have never been fulfilled, and almost all of which will be fulfilled literally.

    It is very difficult, nay, it's impossible, to try to fit Revelation 11:5-13 onto some first-century churches, just so one can try to fulfill one's woodenly literal hermeneutic of the single word "soon" (or "shortly") in Revelation 1:1.

    But, on the other hand, a literal, futurist reading of Revelation 11:5-13 is quite easy. The same holds true for almost all of the rest of Revelation chapters 6-18.

    Nothing requires that there is any symbolism at all in Revelation 11:5-13, except for the single phrase which is specifically indicated as symbolic by the word "spiritually" (Revelation 11:8b).

    Revelation 13:4-18 is supremely difficult for preterists. They never get to it, just as they never get to the rest of Revelation chapters 6-22, for those chapters have no historical fulfillment.

    ~

    In Revelation 1:1, the original Greek word translated as "signified" simply means "to indicate", to show, whether literally, as it's used in Acts 25:27, or symbolically. So it doesn't help at all to resolve the literal-symbolic question. And claiming that it must mean to show symbolically in Revelation 1:1 because Revelation is almost all symbolic (which it isn't) is only begging the question: it's simply assuming that Revelation is almost all symbolic (instead of almost all literal), and then trying to wrongly straitjacket the meaning of the original Greek word in Revelation 1:1 so that it can't mean to show either literally or symbolically, but only symbolically.

    The reason preterism is so desperate to try to make Revelation almost all symbolic is that preterism is completely unable to show how each verse of Revelation chapters 6-22 happened by 70 AD. Preterism usually avoids these chapters like the plague, saying something like "they're very difficult to understand", meaning that they're impossible to shoehorn into the events of 60-70 AD.

    But the unsealed book of Revelation (Revelation 22:10) isn't difficult to understand at all; when it's read literally, it's plain on its face, and it explains itself what the few symbols within it represent. It's only those who want (need) Revelation to be symbolic and unexplained who find it to be a difficult book.

    Absurdity isn't essentially the criterion used by the literalist to determine if something is literal or symbolic in Revelation, for that wouldn't resolve the literal/symbolic question at all, it would only change it to an unabsurd/absurd question, which could never be resolved because what seems absurd to one person seems perfectly rational to another. For example, it seems absurd, even to some literalists, that the locust-like creatures which will come up from hell in Revelation 9:1-11 will be literal demonic creatures which will really look like locusts and literally have scorpion-like tails with which they will literally sting and torment mankind for five months. But to many literalists, this is not absurd at all, for many different types of demonic creatures could now be lurking down in hell.

    Nothing in Revelation or the historical-grammatical method of interpretation says or requires that the primary means of communication of Revelation is by way of symbolic images, instead of primarily by way of literal images and statements, with a few symbolic images which are subsequently explained by literal statements.

    ~

    There being a 1900-year gap between the first-century fulfillment of parts of Revelation chapters 1-3 and the future fulfillment of Revelation chapters 4-22 in no way disproves Futurism, for a 1900-year gap is nothing to God (2 Peter 3:8-9).

    --

    "If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen" (1 Peter 4:11). Here "glorified" is the translation of the original Greek verb "doxazo", from the noun "doxa", which means honor, praise, worship. 1 Peter 4:11 means that those obedient to God through Jesus Christ should do all things to God's honor, praise, and worship.

    --

    Regarding Romans 16:7, it doesn't mean that Andronicus and Junia themselves were apostles, but that they were held in high regard by the apostles.

    --

    Hebrews 3:6 is referring to the Church as the figurative house of Christ, whereas Isaiah 2:2 is referring to the literal temple-building which will be in Jerusalem during the millennium (Zechariah 14:20-21).

    --

    Note that God's wrath doesn't have to destroy everything, for not everything will be destroyed at the vials of God's wrath (Revelation 16) or at the subsequent wrath of God at the second coming of Jesus (Revelation 19:15). And God's destroying everything before the White Throne Judgment (Revelation 20:11, 2 Peter 3:10) may not be an instance of his wrath, but could be done calmly in a simple desire to wipe the slate clean and begin again with the new earth (Revelation 21:1-4).

    ~

    There is no necessary link whatsoever between the seven angels of the trumpets in Revelation 8:2 and the seven angels of the plagues of the vials of wrath of Revelation 15:1. They could be two completely different sets of seven angels. In fact, John could refer to one of the seven of the latter set as "one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues" in Revelation 21:9 precisely to distinguish that latter set of seven angels from the former set which had the previous seven trumpets (Revelation 8:2).

    John sees the plague group of angels for the first time in Revelation chapters 15-16 because that's when the seven plagues of the seven vials of wrath will occur: after the reign of the Antichrist and seventh trumpet of Revelation chapters 11-14. The seven plagues of the seven vials of wrath could come out of the temple-opening of the seventh trumpet (Revelation 11:19, 15:5-16:1)

    It's only after Revelation 15:1, in Revelation 15:6-8:1, 21:9 that John refers to the angels of the seven plagues of the vials of wrath with the added article "the".

    --

    Note that nothing in the 5th seal says or requires that the martyrs endured the tribulation of Revelation chapters 6-18; they could be martyrs of the church down through the ages, before the tribulation started. The martyrs killed during the tribulation are also martyrs of the church, for they have faith in Jesus (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4), and everyone who has faith in Jesus is part of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

    While Revelation shows two sets of martyrs killed at different times (Revelation 6:9, 20:4), they're both part of the church; that's why the martyrs killed at the later time are called the "brethren" of those killed at the earlier time (Revelation 6:11).

    The martyrs in Revelation 6:9 could include not only all New Testament martyrs such as those in Revelation 2:10 and Acts 7:59, but also all Old Testament martyrs such as those in 2 Chronicles 24:20-21 and Jeremiah 26:20-23, who are all now part of the church, for after his resurrection Jesus went down into Hades to preach the completion of the gospel to all those who had died in faith up to that time (1 Peter 3:19, 4:6, Hebrews 11:13). He then drew all of their souls up into heaven (Ephesians 4:8-9), where they are now part of the church in heaven (Hebrews 12:22-24), for now there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

    And just as for this reason the Old Testament martyrs are now part of the church, so for this reason the tribulation martyrs will be part of the church.

    The martyrs in Revelation 6:9 are those in the church who have been and will be killed up to the time of the coming tribulation's fifth seal, which will occur during the first half of the tribulation, while the martyrs in Revelation 20:4 include those in the church who will be killed during the 3.5-year world-reign of the Antichrist (Revelation 13:5-10, 14:12-13), which will occur during the latter half of the tribulation.

    The martyrs under the altar in Revelation 6:9 are under the altar in heaven, before the throne of God (Revelation 8:3b, 9:13), which throne is in the temple-building in heaven (Revelation 16:17). Nobody goes to Hades now but the unsaved dead. The saved dead who don't die by martyrdom do not go under the altar in heaven, but into the city of New Jerusalem in heaven (Hebrews 12:22-23), in which there is no temple-building (Revelation 21:22), and so no altar.

    Quote: „The 5th seal is martyrdom for some, being tormented by locusts for others, and being darkened spiritually for those in wrath.“

    A: Note that the 5th seal itself isn't martyrdom for anyone, in the sense that the martyrs in heaven in Revelation 6:9 died before the 5th seal, and the martyrs in Revelation 6:11b will be killed sometime after the 5th seal. No one will be killed by the fifth-trumpet locusts (Revelation 9:5). And the 5th vial (Revelation 16:10) could refer to a literal darkness which will temporarily come upon the kingdom of the Antichrist as a judgment from God. So there is no necessary correlation at all between the 5th seal, trumpet, and vial. They could be three completely different events happening at three completely different times.

    --

    Romans 9:18 means that God makes sure to harden the hearts of the vessels of wrath so that they will never repent from those sins which they have already chosen to commit by their own free will.

    God can harden hearts (Exodus 7:3) and people can also harden their own hearts (Exodus 8:15).

    We have the ability, through our free will, to [consciously] harden our hearts against God (Hebrews 3:15) and to refuse to do the good things that we know He wants us to do (Luke 12:47).

    --

    Daniel 11:14a could refer to a future time when many nations will stand up against Egypt and its hegemon the U.S. for their support of Israel. Daniel 11:14b could refer to some ultra-Orthodox Jews blowing up the Dome of the Rock in order to clear the site for their rebuilding of the temple.

    --

    In Hebrews 8:13b, the writer of Hebrews wasn't speaking of the Old Covenant as ready to disappear in his own time, but at the time that Jeremiah 31:31 was spoken. The coming of the New Covenant was "near" (eggus) to the time that Jeremiah 31:31 was spoken in light of 2 Peter 3:8-9.

    The writer of Hebrews speaks of the Old Covenant as already disannulled in Hebrews 7:18-19 and 10:18 (cf. Matthew 26:28), just as Paul speaks of the Old Covenant as already abolished on the cross in Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15.

    Quote: Hebrews says that it became obsolete, but had not passed away yet, but soon would (Heb. 8:13). So your assertion that the OC age ended at the death of Jesus is wrong.

    A: Not at all, for Hebrews 8:13 is referring to the Old Covenant being ready to vanish away as soon as Jeremiah 31:31 was spoken, not as soon as Hebrews 8:13 was spoken; and the Bible expressly states that the Old Covenant had already been abolished on the cross (Ephesians 2:15, Colossians 2:14, Hebrews 7:18-19), which is when Jesus replaced it with the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28, Hebrews 9:15-17).

    Partial preterists make fun of full preterists for trying to make 70 AD more important than the cross, when partial preterists try to do the very same thing.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2015
  16. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Thank you for pointing those out.

    Thank you for posting them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2015
  17. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

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    Maybe you could make an update-page where one can see the latest 20 or so new blog-entries, like you did above (for example "Added a new blog entry under *2 Cor. 11:8 on 12-11-2015")? You could use this page for that: http://www.christianforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/198391/
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2015
  18. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Good idea.

    I changed the title of the last blog post, so it now has a new link:

    http://www.christianforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/latest-changes.198391/

    I also made a minor addition to paragraph 4 of the comments to the 1st blog post.

    Thank you for helping me to make these additions to the blog.
     
  19. ThomasGuthler

    ThomasGuthler Newbie

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    Regarding the following entries, are they correct and is Zephaniah 1:14,18 + 2:1-15 referring to one and the same ancient DotL?




    Lamentations 2:22, Ezekiel 7:19, and Zephaniah 1:14,18, 2:2 refer to an ancient day of the Lord's anger, when he destroyed Jerusalem and Judah (Lamentations 2:1-22, Ezekiel 7:2-27, Zephaniah 1:1-2:2) by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon (Jeremiah 34:1-2).

    Zephaniah 2:3 isn't referring to the Day of the Lord, for that won't begin until after the vials of wrath of Revelation 16, at the second coming (Revelation 19:11-21).

    Zephaniah 2:13 prophesied the destruction of Nineveh, which happened in 612 B.C.

    Zephaniah 3:8 is the second coming (Revelation 19:15,19-21). Zephaniah 3:9-20 is all of mortal elect Israel still alive on the earth at the start of the millennium, after they have all been saved at the second coming, when they see Jesus (Romans 11:26-29, Zechariah 12:10-14).

    ~

    Zechariah 13:1 refers to the New Covenant salvation (Matthew 26:28, 1 Corinthians 11:25, 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15) which will be brought to all of the elect unbelieving Jews at the second coming (Romans 11:26-31), when they will see the physically-returned Jesus (Zechariah 13:6, 14:4, Acts 1:11-12) and come into faith in him (Zechariah 12:10-14). And so they will become part of the church at that time, just as saved Jews have always become part of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13), for there are no believers outside of the church (Ephesians 4:4-5).

    --

    Some more old entries for review:


    Heresies 2008

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ons-bad-doctrines-hell.7238102/#post-47310266

    --

    non-lethal devices 2008

    http://www.christianforums.com/thre...-into-endtime-prophecy.7284109/#post-48695014

    --

    Tribulation Saints

    http://www.christianforums.com/threads/rapture-question.6606971/page-6#post-42229417

    --

    The "door" in Leviticus 8:4 could be a type for Jesus himself (John 10:9). He'll rapture the church up to himself in the sky on his way down to the earth at his second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

    --

    The rapture is called by the term "gathering together" in the context of the second coming of Jesus (2 Thessalonians 2:1).

    2 Thessalonians 2:2 means that they shouldn't let any full-preterist teachings shake their faith (2 Timothy 2:18).

    The departure first of believers in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 isn't a physical departure, but a departure from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1), an apostasy. That's the word used in 2 Thessalonians 2:3: apostasia; it's used elsewhere to refer to people being taught to "forsake" the Old Covenant Law of Moses (Acts 21:21). So 2 Thessalonians 2:3 means that people in the church will "forsake", fall away from, the New Covenant faith of Jesus. This forsaking, or apostasy, will happen during the coming tribulation (Matthew 24:9-13, 1 Timothy 4:1).

    None of the following verses use the Greek word used in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 to refer to the coming apostasy (apostasia) in the church: Luke 2:37, 4:13, 13:27, Acts 12:10, 15:38, 19:9, 22:29, 2 Corinthians 12:8 all use a different Greek word (aphistemi). And 1 Timothy 4:1 and Hebrews 3:12 show that even this word aphistemi doesn't always refer to a physical departure, but can (as apostasia does), refer to people spiritually departing from, falling away from, their faith; just as, on the flip side, 2 Timothy 2:19 shows that aphistemi can refer to people spiritually departing from wickedness. So apostasia's being derived from aphistemi doesn't mean that it's referring to a physical departure.

    Strong's #868 aphistemi is used in 1 Timothy 4:1 to refer to people who will "depart" from the faith.

    Strong's #868 aphistemi is used in Hebrews 3:12 to refer to people "departing" from the living God.

    Strong's #868 aphistemi is used in Luke 8:13 to refer to people who "fall away" from their belief.

    Strong's #646 apostasia is used in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 to refer to people "falling away", in the same sense that Strong's #868 aphistemi is used in Luke 8:13 to refer to people who "fall away" from their belief.

    If one requires that the Greek word for faith be in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 before one will accept that it's referring to a departure from the faith, then to be consistent one would have to require that the Greek word for the earth be in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 before one could claim that it's referring to a departure from the earth.

    It was understood in Paul's day that apostasia meant apostasy; that's why Paul didn't have to add "from the truth" to "falling away" (apostasia) in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Some want to add "from the earth" to apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3, and change apostasia to mean a physical departure, but that would contradict the fact that the church is never going to be removed from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20). It would also contradict Paul's whole point that an apostasy and the revealing of the Antichrist have to occur before Jesus comes to gather together the church (2 Thessalonians 2:1-4), for when Jesus comes to gather together the church he will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:1,8, Revelation 19:7,20). To try to turn the apostasy into the gathering together of the church would be trying to make 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 say that Jesus' coming and gathering together of the church can't happen until the gathering together of the church happens first, which would turn 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 into nonsense.

    Nothing in the context of 2 Thessalonians 2:3 would make the apostasia a departure from the earth, instead of an apostasy, a departure from the faith (1 Timothy 4:1, Hebrews 3:12), a falling away from the faith (Luke 8:13). For the church will never be removed from the earth (Proverbs 10:30, John 17:15,20); the rapture will take the church only as high as the clouds to meet Jesus in the air on his way down to the earth at his second coming (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17).

    The whole point of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is that Jesus can't come and gather together (rapture) the church until sometime after there's an apostasy and the Antichrist commits the abomination of desolation. It would make no sense at all to read 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 as meaning that Jesus can't come and gather together the church until sometime after Jesus comes and gathers together the church.

    2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 does have reference to 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, for they both refer to Jesus' coming and gathering together (rapture) of the church.

    But the whole point of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 is to counter the false idea that 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 can happen before there's an apostasy and the Antichrist commits the abomination of desolation.

    To try to convert the apostasy into the rapture would be to turn the whole intent of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 onto its head. And we know who loves to turn the things of God upside down.

    --

    Judas didn't betray Jesus because he (Judas) sided with the hope of the Talmudized Old Covenant religion, but because he wanted money (Matthew 26:15). He was covetous (John 12:4-6).

    --

    The fourth beast/kingdom shown to Daniel (Daniel 7:23, cf. 2 Esdras 11:39) was the Roman Empire, the standard of which was an eagle (cf. 2 Esdras 12:11).

    2 Esdras 12:14 could refer to the first twelve emperors of the Roman Empire. If 2 Esdras 12:15 includes Caesar as the first, since he was made dictator for life before his assassination, then the second could be Augustus, whose reign was longest of the twelve.

    --

    Right before Stephen's death, when he asked Jesus to receive his spirit (Acts 7:59-60), Stephen had a vision of Jesus standing at the right hand of the Father (Acts 7:56). This would have been in the third heaven's temple building (Hebrews 8:1-2, Revelation 11:19), which could have been built by the Lord aeons ago, long before the building of any temple building on the earth. But God wants things on earth as they are in heaven (Matthew 6:10), so at his second coming the Lord will build a temple building on the earth (Zechariah 6:12) as he built one in heaven (Hebrews 8:2).

    --

    Someone becoming possessed by a spirit (Acts 16:16) doesn't mean that he or she has no subsequent chance of salvation, for Mary Magdalene was possessed by seven spirits before they were cast out of her and she got saved (Luke 8:2).

    ~

    Quote: „I came here to get an advise before I leave the house.“

    A: You should move to a different house, or to a flat, as soon as your rental lease is up (assuming that the person bothering you hasn't himself moved away before that time).

    Presently, you should ask some people from your church or home group to come to your room and pray over it for deliverance from demons and satanic/occult spells. You and the people can walk around the room sprinkling water on all the doors, windows, walls, ceiling, floor, etc., as they pray for the Holy Spirit himself to come and completely cleanse the room spiritually and to fill it as with solid spiritual gold so that no evil spirit or spell can enter in.

    Lay low with regard to the person bothering you. Avoid him as much as possible until you can move away. And pray for strength to deal with him very gently at all times, having compassion toward him for being taken captive in the snare of Satan (2 Timothy 2:24-26). Pray for him that God would save him just as he saved you. Who knows? Your prayers joined with the prayers of others could lead to God turning a Saul into a Paul (1 Timothy 1:12-19).

    --

    The first sickle (Revelation 14:14-16) isn't the rapture, but Jesus figuratively reaping into heaven the souls of those in the Church who will be killed by the Antichrist for refusing to worship him and his image, and refusing to receive his mark in their forehead or in their hand (Revelation 14:9-16, 20:4).

    The second sickle (Revelation 14:17-20) could refer to the Antichrist's killing of unbelievers, such as hardcore Muslims, for refusing to worship him. Their death would be the wrath of God toward unbelievers (John 3:36), for their death will take them down into the fiery torments of Hades (Luke 16:22b-24).

    --

    Bees can represent enemies (Deuteronomy 1:44, Psalms 118:12, Isaiah 7:18).
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
  20. Bible2+

    Bible2+ Matthew 4:4

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    Nothing jumped out at me as being incorrect. And Zephaniah 1 to Zephaniah 3:7 could have had an ancient fulfillment, whereas the rest of that book will have a future one.

    Thank you for posting these.

    Based on a part of them, I hope to add to the blog a new (1st) section under *2 Pet. 2:1.

    Thank you for helping me to make this addition to the blog.
     
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