Questions and lack of understanding about alternative lifestyles

[Lik3]

According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, but does it have to do with God's plan for creation where Adam was created first, then Eve? I have come to realize that is it the real reason why it is a sin or was it something else? The Bible in the Old Testament seems a lot harsher than in the New Testament about homosexuality.

How do I interpret to someone who wants to know the Bible that it is not a book about homophobia but a book about following God's laws? In the past, I have struggled with whether or not it is wrong, but Paul wrote about homosexuality and let me say that he was truly against it. He wrote that homosexuality in general was about men and women leaving the natural use of one another. So, aside from those two reasons, are there any other reasons why homosexuality is a sin? If someone who is gay wants to know why it is a sin, then how do I address the elephant in the room to him or her?

How would I explain why God has those particular views; how would I explain why God was or seemed so harsh on homosexuality but not on gay people? God create gay people, but I have a hard time believing that they are born gay. To me, that means that God is the Creator of all, gay or straight; however, The Bible never said that any of us, gay or straight are to sin. Sin is never okay, whether gay or straight. I don't mean to come across as homophobic, but if that is how I come across, then I apologize.

 

[Dave-W]

MALE homosexuality is condemned in the Bible.

There is only one passage in the entire bible concerning female homosexuality - Romans 1. And there it is listed as a SYMPTOM of being in a fallen world, of worshipping creation instead of the Creator.

 

[AvgJoe]

According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, but does it have to do with God's plan for creation where Adam was created first, then Eve? I have come to realize that is it the real reason why it is a sin or was it something else? The Bible in the Old Testament seems a lot harsher than in the New Testament about homosexuality.

How do I interpret to someone who wants to know the Bible that it is not a book about homophobia but a book about following God's laws? In the past, I have struggled with whether or not it is wrong, but Paul wrote about homosexuality and let me say that he was truly against it. He wrote that homosexuality in general was about men and women leaving the natural use of one another. So, aside from those two reasons, are there any other reasons why homosexuality is a sin? If someone who is gay wants to know why it is a sin, then how do I address the elephant in the room to him or her?

How would I explain why God has those particular views; how would I explain why God was or seemed so harsh on homosexuality but not on gay people? God create gay people, but I have a hard time believing that they are born gay. To me, that means that God is the Creator of all, gay or straight; however, The Bible never said that any of us, gay or straight are to sin. Sin is never okay, whether gay or straight. I don't mean to come across as homophobic, but if that is how I come across, then I apologize.

Question: "What does the Bible say about homosexuality? Is homosexuality a sin?"

Answer: In some people’s minds, being homosexual is as much outside one’s control as the color of your skin and your height. On the other hand, the Bible clearly and consistently declares that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1–13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26–27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). This disconnect leads to much controversy, debate, and even hostility.

When examining what the Bible says about homosexuality, it is important to distinguish between homosexual behavior and homosexual inclinations or attractions. It is the difference between active sin and the passive condition of being tempted. Homosexual behavior is sinful, but the Bible never says it is a sin to be tempted. Simply stated, a struggle with temptation may lead to sin, but the struggle itself is not a sin.

Romans 1:26–27 teaches that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. One of the fruits of rebellion against God is homosexuality. First Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that those who practice homosexuality, and therefore transgress God’s created order, are not saved.

A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. Just because a person is born with a greater susceptibility to fits of rage, that doesn’t make it right for him to give in to those desires and explode at every provocation. The same is true with a susceptibility to homosexuality.

No matter our proclivities or attractions, we cannot continue to define ourselves by the very sins that crucified Jesus—and at the same time assume we are right with God. Paul lists many of the sins that the Corinthians once practiced (homosexuality is on the list). But in 1 Corinthians 6:11, he reminds them, “That is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (emphasis added). In other words, some of the Corinthians, before they were saved, lived homosexual lifestyles; but no sin is too great for the cleansing power of Jesus. Once cleansed, we are no longer defined by sin.

The problem with homosexual attraction is that it is an attraction to something God has forbidden, and any desire for something sinful ultimately has its roots in sin. The pervasive nature of sin causes us to see the world and our own actions through a warped perspective. Our thoughts, desires, and dispositions are all affected. So, homosexual attraction does not always result in active, willful sin—there may not be a conscious choice to sin—but it springs from the sinful nature. Same-sex attraction is always, on some basic level, an expression of the fallen nature.

As sinful human beings living in a sinful world (Romans 3:23), we are beset with weaknesses, temptations, and inducements to sin. Our world is filled with lures and entrapments, including the enticement to practice homosexuality.

The temptation to engage in homosexual behavior is very real to many. Those who struggle with homosexual attraction often report suffering through years of wishing things were different. People may not always be able to control how or what they feel, but they can control what they do with those feelings (1 Peter 1:5–8). We all have the responsibility to resist temptation (Ephesians 6:13). We must all be transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2). We must all “walk by the Spirit” so as not to “gratify the desires of the flesh” (Galatians 5:16).

Finally, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Without Christ, we are lost, whatever type of sin has entangled us. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is available to the homosexual just as it is to the adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, and thief. God promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).

www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality-Bible.html

Some other helpful articles~~~> www.gotquestions.org/search.php?zoom_query=homosexuality

 

[eleos1954]

According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, but does it have to do with God's plan for creation where Adam was created first, then Eve? I have come to realize that is it the real reason why it is a sin or was it something else? The Bible in the Old Testament seems a lot harsher than in the New Testament about homosexuality.

How do I interpret to someone who wants to know the Bible that it is not a book about homophobia but a book about following God's laws? In the past, I have struggled with whether or not it is wrong, but Paul wrote about homosexuality and let me say that he was truly against it. He wrote that homosexuality in general was about men and women leaving the natural use of one another. So, aside from those two reasons, are there any other reasons why homosexuality is a sin? If someone who is gay wants to know why it is a sin, then how do I address the elephant in the room to him or her?

How would I explain why God has those particular views; how would I explain why God was or seemed so harsh on homosexuality but not on gay people? God create gay people, but I have a hard time believing that they are born gay. To me, that means that God is the Creator of all, gay or straight; however, The Bible never said that any of us, gay or straight are to sin. Sin is never okay, whether gay or straight. I don't mean to come across as homophobic, but if that is how I come across, then I apologize.

Firstly, make sure they understand God's love. God loves the sinner, but hates sin ... any sin. Give them scriptures about God's love.

Sin is sin .... if a person is a liar , if a person covets, or a person is homosexual, which is the "greater" sin? Sin is sin. We all need help from Jesus to help us overcome our sin. We all sin, we all need help.

Perhaps discuss sin in general ... perhaps talk about your sin and how the Lord helps you to over come ... relate with your own struggles. How prayer and studying His word helps you.

Romans 5:8
But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Encourage them to study Gods word and pray for them just like with anyone.

And yes, Gods word is clear on homosexuality being a sin .... along with a whole lot of other things being sinful as well.

Regardless .... be kind to one another, knowing all of us are sinners.

 

[Zetetica]

Question: "What does the Bible say about homosexuality? Is homosexuality a sin?"

Answer: In some people’s minds, being homosexual is as much outside one’s control as the color of your skin and your height. On the other hand, the Bible clearly and consistently declares that homosexual activity is a sin (Genesis 19:1–13; Leviticus 18:22; 20:13; Romans 1:26–27; 1 Corinthians 6:9). This disconnect leads to much controversy, debate, and even hostility.

When examining what the Bible says about homosexuality, it is important to distinguish between homosexual behavior and homosexual inclinations or attractions. It is the difference between active sin and the passive condition of being tempted. Homosexual behavior is sinful, but the Bible never says it is a sin to be tempted. Simply stated, a struggle with temptation may lead to sin, but the struggle itself is not a sin.

Romans 1:26–27 teaches that homosexuality is a result of denying and disobeying God. When people continue in sin and unbelief, God “gives them over” to even more wicked and depraved sin to show them the futility and hopelessness of life apart from God. One of the fruits of rebellion against God is homosexuality. First Corinthians 6:9 proclaims that those who practice homosexuality, and therefore transgress God’s created order, are not saved.

A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. Just because a person is born with a greater susceptibility to fits of rage, that doesn’t make it right for him to give in to those desires and explode at every provocation. The same is true with a susceptibility to homosexuality.

No matter our proclivities or attractions, we cannot continue to define ourselves by the very sins that crucified Jesus—and at the same time assume we are right with God. Paul lists many of the sins that the Corinthians once practiced (homosexuality is on the list). But in 1 Corinthians 6:11, he reminds them, “That is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God” (emphasis added). In other words, some of the Corinthians, before they were saved, lived homosexual lifestyles; but no sin is too great for the cleansing power of Jesus. Once cleansed, we are no longer defined by sin.

The problem with homosexual attraction is that it is an attraction to something God has forbidden, and any desire for something sinful ultimately has its roots in sin. The pervasive nature of sin causes us to see the world and our own actions through a warped perspective. Our thoughts, desires, and dispositions are all affected. So, homosexual attraction does not always result in active, willful sin—there may not be a conscious choice to sin—but it springs from the sinful nature. Same-sex attraction is always, on some basic level, an expression of the fallen nature.

As sinful human beings living in a sinful world (Romans 3:23), we are beset with weaknesses, temptations, and inducements to sin. Our world is filled with lures and entrapments, including the enticement to practice homosexuality.

The temptation to engage in homosexual behavior is very real to many. Those who struggle with homosexual attraction often report suffering through years of wishing things were different. People may not always be able to control how or what they feel, but they can control what they do with those feelings (1 Peter 1:5–8). We all have the responsibility to resist temptation (Ephesians 6:13). We must all be transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2). We must all “walk by the Spirit” so as not to “gratify the desires of the flesh” (Galatians 5:16).

Finally, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God. Without Christ, we are lost, whatever type of sin has entangled us. According to the Bible, God’s forgiveness is available to the homosexual just as it is to the adulterer, idol worshipper, murderer, and thief. God promises the strength for victory over sin, including homosexuality, to all those who will believe in Jesus Christ for their salvation (1 Corinthians 6:11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Philippians 4:13).

www.gotquestions.org/homosexuality-Bible.html

Some other helpful articles~~~> www.gotquestions.org/search.php?zoom_query=homosexuality

Wonderful words, friend. May I share them off site, leaving credit to you at the bottom?

I used to have lesbian temptations and kinks. When I was drawn to God, those temptations and kinks vanished entirely; many others did as well. I fully believe homosexuality is a sin and a curse, though didn't before I was drawn to God. In fact, I didn't believe such a thing until the day I was saved.

 

[AvgJoe]

Wonderful words, friend. May I share them off site, leaving credit to you at the bottom?

I used to have lesbian temptations and kinks. When I was drawn to God, those temptations and kinks vanished entirely; many others did as well. I fully believe homosexuality is a sin and a curse, though didn't before I was drawn to God. In fact, I didn't believe such a thing until the day I was saved.

Hi Zetetica, thanks for sharing your story. God does work in amazing ways!

Thanks for the compliment but I can't take credit for writing that article. It is the work of the Got Questions website~~~> www.gotquestions.org/ . It's a Bible questions answered website that has answered over half a million questions, thus far, in article form like my post above. They've given permission to share their articles as long as you link back to them, like I did in the post above~~~> www.gotquestions.org/about.html . I don't agree with everything they have to say, but most of what they have to say is right on the money. It's a great Christian resource.

 

[thecolorsblend]

How do I interpret to someone who wants to know the Bible that it is not a book about homophobia but a book about following God's laws?

Individual gospels are often published as standalone, pocket-sized books. You could give one of those to your friend since they have little or nothing to say about same-sex attractions. Your friend might better connect to the gospel that way.

Good luck!

 

[98cwitr]

I look at it the same way as I see heterosexual sin (sin is sin afterall): We have carnal, evil desires due to our flesh nature, and we do not have to give into them and won't if we are under and in the Spirit (1 John 5). This is true whether you are homosexual or heterosexual. The existence of that desire demonstrates our need for Christ and rebirth, and when God protects us from such temptations, we glorify Him.

With any topic regarding Christianity and LGBTQ, I simply refer to this Scripture:

1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

 

[DeaconDean]

in a nutshell:

"οἵτινες μετήλλαξαν τὴν ἀλήθειαν τοῦ θεοῦ ἐν τῷ ψεύδει, καὶ ἐσεβάσθησαν καὶ ἐλάτρευσαν τῇ κτίσει παρὰ τὸν κτίσαντα, ὅς ἐστιν εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας: ἀμήν." -Rom. 1:25 (GNT)

"Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen." -Rom. 1:25 (KJV)

Focus on the Greek word "ἐλάτρευσαν".

What this one word tells us is the entire act of "homosexuality" in essence, turns the whole activity into one of "idol worship"

"λατρεύω,v \{lat-ryoo'-o}
1) to serve for hire 2) to serve, minister to, either to the gods or men and used alike of slaves and freemen 2a) in the NT, to render religious service or homage, to worship 2b) to perform sacred services, to offer gifts, to worship God in the observance of the rites instituted for his worship 2b1) of priests, to officiate, to discharge the sacred office"

Source

God is the only Person who is worthy of our worship. But in this act, man makes man worthy of worship, makes him/her an idol.

So not only does it break the natural law, it breaks one of the commandments and breaks the Law set forth in the Torah.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[thecolorsblend]

I look at it the same way as I see heterosexual sin (sin is sin afterall): We have carnal, evil desires due to our flesh nature, and we do not have to give into them and won't if we are under and in the Spirit (1 John 5). This is true whether you are homosexual or heterosexual. The existence of that desire demonstrates our need for Christ and rebirth, and when God protects us from such temptations, we glorify Him.

With any topic regarding Christianity and LGBTQ, I simply refer to this Scripture:

1 Corinthians 13:6
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

I understand your point but I think I disagree with your logic.

A man looking at a woman and wanting to be physical with her isn't inherently sinful. If he's married to her, there's really nothing wrong with being physically attracted to her. Obviously it's a problem if he's not married to her, of course.

But that doesn't apply to same-sex attractions. If a man is physically attracted to another man (or a woman to a woman), there are no circumstances where that can be acceptable because they cannot possibly be married to one another. Same-sex attractions are inherently sinful.

Not trying to split hairs though.

 

[98cwitr]

I understand your point but I think I disagree with your logic.

A man looking at a woman and wanting to be physical with her isn't inherently sinful. If he's married to her, there's really nothing wrong with being physically attracted to her. Obviously it's a problem if he's not married to her, of course.

But that doesn't apply to same-sex attractions. If a man is physically attracted to another man (or a woman to a woman), there are no circumstances where that can be acceptable because they cannot possibly be married to one another. Same-sex attractions are inherently sinful.

Not trying to split hairs though.

Let's compare apples to apples for a sec:

First, I need to clear a precursor to this convo via a question: Do you believe that having homosexual desire, the desire itself...not just the act, is a choice?

Regardless, here's my scenario: Take two unmarried men; one homosexual the other heterosexual. Both have sexual desires, but neither wish to fulfill them because they know it would be sin to do so. Is one guilty of sin and the other isn't?

 

[Newtheran]

According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, but does it have to do with God's plan for creation where Adam was created first, then Eve? I have come to realize that is it the real reason why it is a sin or was it something else? The Bible in the Old Testament seems a lot harsher than in the New Testament about homosexuality.

How do I interpret to someone who wants to know the Bible that it is not a book about homophobia but a book about following God's laws? In the past, I have struggled with whether or not it is wrong, but Paul wrote about homosexuality and let me say that he was truly against it. He wrote that homosexuality in general was about men and women leaving the natural use of one another. So, aside from those two reasons, are there any other reasons why homosexuality is a sin? If someone who is gay wants to know why it is a sin, then how do I address the elephant in the room to him or her?

How would I explain why God has those particular views; how would I explain why God was or seemed so harsh on homosexuality but not on gay people? God create gay people, but I have a hard time believing that they are born gay. To me, that means that God is the Creator of all, gay or straight; however, The Bible never said that any of us, gay or straight are to sin. Sin is never okay, whether gay or straight. I don't mean to come across as homophobic, but if that is how I come across, then I apologize.

You are, under the influence of modern culture, attempting to reconcile behaviors and preferences that are irreconcilable with God and scripture to them. In the end, anything is a sin because God declares it to be so.

 

[thecolorsblend]

.

 

[98cwitr]

I don't know for certain. But, to be brief, I err on the side of assuming it isn't a choice.p

Here's the semi-rhetorical question I ask myself when I self-reflect: Did you choose to be heterosexual? Or is the choice to sexually sin in action, not feeling?

Lust is a sin. Our Lord decried adultery in one's heart as being as bad as the act itself. I would suggest that a heterosexual man lusting after a woman to whom he isn't married is a lesser offense than the homosexual man who lusts after other men.

How so? What makes one sin worse or less worse than another? I mean, I guess you could go Old Testament and make claims that one sin had a lesser punishment than the other, but we're not under OT Law, and James teaches that all sin is offensive to our Lord.

My purpose in mentioning this is I'm a little fed up with the silly moral equivalence going around that all sins are equally weighted or equally bad. No, some are definitely worse than others. I have no idea where you're coming from on that subject and so I'm not accusing you of anything. Just saying that I was thinking in those terms when I made my other post, that's all.

I get you, and I agree with you TO a degree, but James 2 says:

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11 For he who said, “You shall not commit adultery,”b]">[b] also said, “You shall not murder.”c]">[c] If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.

--

To your point, we find in John's epistle:

1 John 5:17
All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.

So some sin leads to death and some sin doesn't. My point is: both heterosexual sin and homosexual sin is sexual immorality; both are offensive to God (and both can lead to physical death; albeit I'm not sure in what context John is using "death" in that writing)

Aside from all this, my wife used to teach school and as early as kindergarten, there were a few cases where you could tell if someone was going to exhibit homosexual tendencies. It was 100% true years later. A 5 year old just doesn't wake up and decide that they're sexually attracted to the same sex. Now there is some scientific evidence to suggest genetics plays a factor, but there's even MORE evidence to suggest it's chemically environmental in the womb. More younger siblings are statistically homosexual, and the more children a woman has, the higher those probabilities are. There's a whole study on Youtube provided by BigThink it you want to look into it.

 

[thecolorsblend]

.

 

[98cwitr]

God has His standards. It's not for me to explain why some things are more offensive to Him than others. But that doesn't change the fact that some things are, in fact, more offensive to Him than others.

Fair enough. I'm just asking that claims are backed up with Scripture.

I'm looking through St. James right now and can't find the passage where he says all sins are equally offensive to the Lord.

The end result is the same: You're a lawbreaker.

My Church has been saying that for centuries.

Okay...so which ones?

I haven't said otherwise.

I've simply said one type of attraction is worse than the other.

idk, Jesus said that even to lust after another woman as a married man, you commit adultery in your heart...if that's not nearly the top of the sin severity list, I'm not sure what else is (murder maybe?). I'm not going to be so quick to say that a homosexual man abstaining himself from pursuing any sexual acts sins worse than a heterosexual man who's sleeping around on his wife, actively and without repentance (reminds me of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector parable). By no means am I condoning such lustful desires, but if we're going to start mapping the hierarchy of sin, we need to get down to actions versus feelings I think. Or maybe James shows it here:

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

ALL OF IT

 

[thecolorsblend]

I apologize. I made my first post in this thread secure in the knowledge that I was posting in the Baptist forum.

But it's been a crazy week so when I posted my second comment here, I totally forgot where I was posting and I allowed the conversation to drift in a direction it probably shouldn't considering this is the Baptist forum.

You have no idea how irritated I get when someone swings into One Bread, One Body and starts writing non-Catholic posts. So it would be hypocritical of me to let my participation in this thread continue as it was.

Because honestly, rereading my posts above, I think they're a little too close to teaching against whatever rules govern this forum. So I deleted those.

If you want, we can pick this discussion up in General Theology or something where both of us have a little more flexibility.

Fair enough. I'm just asking that claims are backed up with Scripture.



The end result is the same: You're a lawbreaker.



Okay...so which ones?



idk, Jesus said that even to lust after another woman as a married man, you commit adultery in your heart...if that's not nearly the top of the sin severity list, I'm not sure what else is (murder maybe?). I'm not going to be so quick to say that a homosexual man abstaining himself from pursuing any sexual acts sins worse than a heterosexual man who's sleeping around on his wife, actively and without repentance (reminds me of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector parable). By no means am I condoning such lustful desires, but if we're going to start mapping the hierarchy of sin, we need to get down to actions versus feelings I think. Or maybe James shows it here:

James 2:10
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

ALL OF IT

 

[98cwitr]

I apologize. I made my first post in this thread secure in the knowledge that I was posting in the Baptist forum.

But it's been a crazy week so when I posted my second comment here, I totally forgot where I was posting and I allowed the conversation to drift in a direction it probably shouldn't considering this is the Baptist forum.

You have no idea how irritated I get when someone swings into One Bread, One Body and starts writing non-Catholic posts. So it would be hypocritical of me to let my participation in this thread continue as it was.

Because honestly, rereading my posts above, I think they're a little too close to teaching against whatever rules govern this forum. So I deleted those.

If you want, we can pick this discussion up in General Theology or something where both of us have a little more flexibility.

I surely appreciate the discussion though, brother.

 

[SkyWriting]

According to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, but does it have to do with God's plan for creation where Adam was created first, then Eve? I have come to realize that is it the real reason why it is a sin or was it something else? The Bible in the Old Testament seems a lot harsher than in the New Testament about homosexuality.

How do I interpret to someone who wants to know the Bible that it is not a book about homophobia but a book about following God's laws? In the past, I have struggled with whether or not it is wrong, but Paul wrote about homosexuality and let me say that he was truly against it. He wrote that homosexuality in general was about men and women leaving the natural use of one another. So, aside from those two reasons, are there any other reasons why homosexuality is a sin? If someone who is gay wants to know why it is a sin, then how do I address the elephant in the room to him or her?

How would I explain why God has those particular views; how would I explain why God was or seemed so harsh on homosexuality but not on gay people? God create gay people, but I have a hard time believing that they are born gay. To me, that means that God is the Creator of all, gay or straight; however, The Bible never said that any of us, gay or straight are to sin. Sin is never okay, whether gay or straight. I don't mean to come across as homophobic, but if that is how I come across, then I apologize.

The laws written in ink and on stone are obsolete.
Study the new covenant and have no worries about breaking laws.
Be concerned about your intentions toward other people.
Believers will not be judged on their sins.