Questions and Answers

[keras]

Christian believers are at odds with one another. We all read the Bible and keep the Commandments. Why do we understand the Prophesies so differently?
My approach is to read the prophesies literally, unless they are obviously metaphorical; describing something not known in ancient times, but what is possible to figure out from our modern knowledge.
I am also a studier of history, so I fairly well know what has happened and what is yet to be fulfilled.

As for the Jewish State of Israel, the whole concept and realization of that entity is a Satanic construct. Jesus said it would happen, Matthew 24:32, but He never said it was from God.
The Zionist Congress, headed by Theodore Hertzel, were mostly all atheists and their Jewish State of Israel was founded on communist principals. Today it is a secular state, run just as every other democracy, with many beliefs having a say in State politics. Judaism; with its denial of Jesus is no better than Islam.

But what really astounds me, is how people ignore the many prophesies that clearly state the virtual demise of Jewish Israel. Which will happen at the Sixth Seal, the next prophesied event. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Hosea 4:3, ++
Isaiah 22:1-14; is one of the best prophesies about this forthcoming Day. It describes how they rush about, terrified; as they see their doom approaching. Ezekiel 7:14-20 & 22:1-8, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 25:30-38
What will trigger the Lord to act on His terrible Day of fiery wrath, is told us in Isaiah 22:6, where Iran and all the Islamic entities will commence an attack onto the holy Land, something that is only possible now, using nuke missiles, as Zechariah 5:1-11, Psalms 7:12-16 and Psalms 83 tell us, and with the result of their surprise attack.
This scenario will happen; it is what the Bible says. If we reject it, then what else of the Bible is wrong and can we trust it for anything?

As is so comprehensively prophesied, the entire Middle East will be virtually depopulated in the forthcoming Day of the Lords fiery wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Jeremiah 10:18, Amos 1 & 2:1-5, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +
Isaiah 29:1-4 says it very well and tells us that just a few, possibly a thousand or so Christian Jews, will survive by hiding underground. That remnant will be joined by their Christian brethren and all will live in all of the holy Land. Jeremiah 50:4-5, Isaiah 62:1-5, Romans 9:24-27

The belief of a general Jewish Redemption, is an immutable tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' theory. Just as there is no scriptural evidence of God taking the Church to heaven, nowhere is it said that Jews will have any prominence in the end times or later. Both ideas are false teachings and will not happen.
Another way of viewing the Jewish State of Israel, is they constitute the visible 'Israel'. The Satanic hatred of Ishmael and his descendants is directed toward the Jewish Israelis, rather than toward the real Israelites of God, the Christian peoples of every tribe, race, nation and language. Revelation 5:9-10

The amazing Plans of God are beyond our human comprehension; He is working toward His ultimate goal: to obtain a people who have freely chosen to believe in Him and to be with Him for Eternity.
We have quite a way to go yet, some very hard times of testing and the proving of our faith, as many have done before us.
But great and wonderful are the Blessings and rewards promised to those who hold fast to their faith and trust unconditionally in His protection.

It is plain from verses like Isaiah 42:18-20, that the Lord has placed over people, a veil of inability to understand the Prophesies. Pastors are the worst affected, of the dozen or so that I have tried to discuss the prophesies with, they all not only know nothing about them, but they refuse to know anything.
I see this as part of Gods plan, He actually wants most people to be surprised and shocked when He takes action. It will be the great test of our faith. 1 Peter 4:12

And let me say, that I will be surprised and shocked as well, although at least I will know what happens, comes from the Lord.
I read the graphic descriptions of the Lords Day of fiery wrath, and try to comprehend it all. But what will happen, is so far out from anything any of us has experienced before, a full understanding is impossible for us.

 

[Douggg]

keras, in Ezekiel 39:28, Jesus speaking in the text having returned to this earth, says regarding the house of Israel....

28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

Did Jesus cause Christians to be led into captivity among the heathen (the nations) or did Jesus cause the Jews to be led into captivity amongst the heathen (the nations) ?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Christian believers are at odds with one another. We all read the Bible and keep the Commandments. Why do we understand the Prophesies so differently?

Because Jesus said that the times are known to the Father, they are not for us to know. Jesus told us to watch the signs, not "figure it out"

Since there is no clear divine mandate to "figure out" the prophecies, there is nothing but confusion.

 

[keras]

Did Jesus cause Christians to be led into captivity among the heathen (the nations) or did Jesus cause the Jews to be led into captivity amongst the heathen (the nations) ?

He caused the ten Northern tribes, the House of Israel to go into exile. Then Jesus came in person 2000 years ago, for the express purpose of saving the lost House of Israel. Matthew 15:24
The House of Judah too; went into exile - twice, and they have returned twice. They are in the Holy Land now, but in apostasy and many Prophesies tell of their virtual demise.

It is the destiny of the Christian peoples, the true House of Israel, to occupy all of the Holy Land during the end times and beyond.
Only in the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, will Satan have world control.

 

[Aaron112]

Hasatan is the prince of the power of the air , the prince of darkness, the god of this world, and most people serve it..

 

[Apple Sky]

It is the destiny of the Christian peoples, the true House of Israel, to occupy all of the Holy Land during the end times and beyond.
Only in the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns, will Satan have world control.

Why does God tell us to move away from all earthly things ? It is b/c of Satan & the influence he has over the many.
Satan has tempted & lied from the beginning & will up to the end.

 

[Douggg]

The House of Judah too; went into exile - twice, and they have returned twice. They are in the Holy Land now, but in apostasy and many Prophesies tell of their virtual demise.

keras, there are still 50% of the Jewish population still in exile in the nations.

Also, Jesus did not cause Christians to be led into exile into the nations..

So, the nation of Israel to be attacked by the Gog/Magog group, in Ezekiel 39, will be the present nation of Israel. 7 years later, in Ezekiel 39:28, Jesus will bring the rest of the Jews still in the nations back to the land of their forefathers.

 

[keras]

keras, there are still 50% of the Jewish population still in exile in the nations.

They are not citizens of the Jewish State of Israel. They are simply unbelieving people, except for the few Christians among them.

Also, Jesus did not cause Christians to be led into exile into the nations..

From 1 Corinthians 10:1-4, it seems that Jesus was the instigator of what happened and will happen to all of Israel. Now; to His Faithful followers.

So, the nation of Israel to be attacked by the Gog/Magog group, in Ezekiel 39, will be the present nation of Israel. 7 years later, in Ezekiel 39:28,

The Gog/Magog attack is not and cannot be the next Prophesied event.
Psalms 83 describes those attackers, they will be the Ishmaelites, etc; Islamic peoples, which includes Iran.
Whereas the G/M attackers come from more distant places. [ I know Persia is mentioned with G/M, but Iran is a big country and it won't be all destroyed when they attack Israel with nuke missiles. Note that Elam is Southwest Iran, Persia refers to the Northern regions of Iran]

Jesus will bring the rest of the Jews still in the nations back to the land of their forefathers

Ezekiel 39:21-29, says the Lord will restore the fortunes of Jacob and show compassion for ALL Israel.....
Not just the Jews as you falsely believe. We know that only a remnant of the Jews will survive after the Lords Day of wrath. Zephaniah 1:14-18

 

[Dave Watchman]

Christian believers are at odds with one another. We all read the Bible and keep the Commandments. Why do we understand the Prophesies so differently?
My approach is to read the prophesies literally, unless they are obviously metaphorical; describing something not known in ancient times, but what is possible to figure out from our modern knowledge.
I am also a studier of history, so I fairly well know what has happened and what is yet to be fulfilled.

We are at odds of understanding the Bible Prophecies because some people have been brainwashed by what Hal Lindsey, Herbert Armstrong, Dave Pack, and whoever else the latest other prophecy expositor is now. Once people get locked into an erroneous mindset, or fabricate a humorous graphic, or write a set of pamphlets, they are trapped. They become trapped in their own eschatology. Their eschatology becomes bigger to them than the truth itself, a strange form of self righteousness, a cult of one. That's why I usually avoid talking on their threads.

s for the Jewish State of Israel, the whole concept and realization of that entity is a Satanic construct. Jesus said it would happen, Matthew 24:32, but He never said it was from God.
The Zionist Congress, headed by Theodore Hertzel, were mostly all atheists and their Jewish State of Israel was founded on communist principals. Today it is a secular state, run just as every other democracy, with many beliefs having a say in State politics. Judaism; with its denial of Jesus is no better than Islam.

The only reason that the Jewish State of Israel is over there now is to hold up a sign that has to do with Jerusalem. Once in 1535, and again in 1969. Jesus is not coming back to start up Old Time Israel again, He's just using them as tools to hold up a sign. And to the end, desolations are decreed. We, on the other hand, have a brand New Jerusalem on the way.

But what really astounds me, is how people ignore the many prophesies that clearly state the virtual demise of Jewish Israel. Which will happen at the Sixth Seal, the next prophesied event. Zephaniah 1:14-18, Hosea 4:3, ++
Isaiah 22:1-14; is one of the best prophesies about this forthcoming Day. It describes how they rush about, terrified; as they see their doom approaching. Ezekiel 7:14-20 & 22:1-8, Amos 2:4-5, Jeremiah 25:30-38
What will trigger the Lord to act on His terrible Day of fiery wrath, is told us in Isaiah 22:6, where Iran and all the Islamic entities will commence an attack onto the holy Land, something that is only possible now, using nuke missiles, as Zechariah 5:1-11, Psalms 7:12-16 and Psalms 83 tell us, and with the result of their surprise attack.
This scenario will happen; it is what the Bible says. If we reject it, then what else of the Bible is wrong and can we trust it for anything?

There are five different types of Bible Prophecy. Here again you are mixing up the Judaic Prophecies, which were conditional in nature, with the Day of the Lord style Prophecies, which are abstract in their timing. As usual, you are ignoring, and thereby excluding the Apocalyptic Prophecies as found in Daniel and Revelation. The Old Time Judaic Prophecies will not harmonize with Apocalyptic Prophecy.

I remember talking to you about this before, and I remember you didn't like it. I'll put it in a SPOILER this time so you don't need to expand on it if you don't want.

Spoiler: Five Types of Bible Prophecy

Five Types of Bible Prophecy

1) Local Prophecy

Prophecies applicable to a specific place and time. These would include Noah's flood, or Jonah's visit to the people of Nineveh. Maybe that King who saw his shadow moving backwards.

2) Messianic Prophecy

These had to do with Jesus' first Visitation. Like Isaiah 52

He Was Pierced for Our Transgressions
Behold, my servant shall act wisely
he shall be high and lifted up,
and shall be exalted.

As many were astonished at you—
his appearance was so marred, beyond human semblance,
and his form beyond that of the children of mankind—
So shall he sprinkle many nations.
Kings shall shut their mouths because of him,
for that which has not been told them they see,
and that which they have not heard they understand.

3) Day of the Lord Prophecy

Very peculiar in their structure. Like Isaiah 13. John MacArthur called them near/far prophecies. In a Day of the Lord Prophecy the Prophet can begin in an ancient Day of the Lord event to do with the Babylonians, and then can seem to peer down through the millennia to the final and ultimate Day of the Lord that will include all those who dwell on the face of the whole earth.

4) Judaic Prophecy

These are conditional prophecies that pertained to Ancient Israel. If you obey the Lord your God. If you do this, then He will do that. If they put away the bodies of their dead kings, THEN show them the plan of the Temple.

If you fully obey the Lord your God and carefully follow all his commands I give you today, the Lord your God will set you high above all the nations on earth. All these blessings will come on you and accompany you if you obey the Lord your God:

5) Apocalyptic Prophecy

Apocalyptic Prophesy have unique characteristics. They are separated by chronological order. Each of these have a beginning point in time, and an ending point in time. When the chronological order is broken, and the subject matter changes, a new prophecy usually begins. There are 17 Apocalyptic prophecies, and 18 prophetic time periods, in the Books of Daniel and Revelation. What also makes these unique from the OT Judaic end time prophecies are the prophetic time periods connected with the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation.

There are certainly parallels in Ezekiel and Zechariah, to the Day of the Lord event which will occur at the end of the thousand years of Revelation 20, (Gog Magog), but it can't happen exactly that way anymore.

Everything in Ezekiel and Jeremiah, and the Judaic Prophecies, hinged on what the Israelite's did during the first half of the 70th week of Daniel 9. Because they were conditional Prophecies. "If they do all that they are instructed, then show them the plan of the temple. According to Ezekiel 43, if Old Time Jews are ashamed of all they have done, they should be shown the design of the temple, including its arrangement, exits, entrances, and all its statutes, forms, and laws, so that they may keep its complete design and carry out its ordinances.

But what if they're not ashamed? What if they do not put away the dead bodies of their kings? Do we still wait for a rebuilt temple?

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. - Jesus​

What if the Old Time Jews were willing? What if they did let their Messiah, our Messiah, gather them like a hen gathers it's chicks? Something different could have taken place with the OT conditional Judaic Prophecies. If they would have just let Jesus gather them as a hen gathers it's chicks, Ezekiel's temple would have been built already. But they missed the time of their Visitation. Jesus had to stick with the Script, so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

Let me put this in another SPOILER. You won't need to expand on it, if you'd rather not.

Spoiler: To Seal Both Vision and Prophet

God had three prophets in operation at the same time. Daniel, Ezekiel and Jeremiah. Three prophets prophesying, but He was giving them two different end time narratives, Everything would hinge on Israel's behavior during the 70 weeks, and especially the first half of the 70th week.. 70 weeks were determined, 70 weeks were "chawthak" or cut off. It really was Old Israel's one last and final chance:

• to finish the transgression,
• to put an end to sin,
• and to atone for iniquity,
• to bring in everlasting righteousness,
• to seal both vision and prophet,
• and to anoint a most holy place.

It was in their midst. All that they would have had to do was to accept their Messiah. It's why John the Baptist was always saying that the Kingdom of God was at hand. Because it really was at hand right then and there. If the Old Time Jews would have cooperated and accepted their Messiah it would have been a completely different world right now. Daniel would have remained forever sealed, Revelation would have never been written. We would have built Ezekiel's Temple sometime in the middle ages.

The original plan was for the Jews to accept their Messiah, then Jesus would have began the Kingdom of God on earth right away because it really was "at hand" at that time. John the Baptist would not have died the way that he did, "lest I come and strike the land with a decree of utter destruction". Jesus would have sent disciples out from Jerusalem to invite anyone who wanted to be saved to come and live there in the Kingdom of God in the 1st century. The good news of the Kingdom of God would have travelled far and fast. Jerusalem would have eventually grown to such a huge population that it's walls could no longer contain it.

Then, after some time, Satan in the guise of Gog Magog would attempt to attack the unwalled Holy City but Jesus would destroy him and his army where they stood and we would spend the next seven years burying them and burning their wooden weapons. And the wolf would lay down with the lamb and we could watch an infant stick his hand into a viper's den while we built Ezekiel's Temple.

But now instead, Paul gets knocked off his horse, the NT and Revelation gets written, Daniel gets unsealed for the final generation, we get an end time Babylon, an end time Antichrist, mark of the beast, two witnesses of 144,000, Jesus makes His second Visitation and we have a brand New Jerusalem with an end time variation on Gog Magog.

Does this describe how the Crucifixion occurred?:

Him Whom They Have Pierced

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land shall mourn, each family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the Shimeites by itself, and their wives by themselves; and all the families that are left, each by itself, and their wives by themselves.​

Is this how it happened after the Crucifixion? Or is this describing the original method of how Jesus would have been sacrificed as the Lamb if humanity had not turned Him over to the enemy? I don't remember too many of those tribes weeping very hard. Just mostly His family and close friends.

Even though I myself doubt Zechariah is happening exactly as it is written, there are certain parallels I find awesome.

"On that day there will be no light, no cold or frost. It will be a unique day known only to the LORD, without day or night; but when evening comes, there will be light.​

I imagine this as how it will be at Judgement Day at the end of the thousand years of Revelation 20. A Day like no other. Where God is in control of the light, the temperature, the wind and everything else. That's going to be spooky. A day like no other.

What I think gives me the knack, or a bit of an edge, an advantage, in understanding the end time Prophecies, is my focus on Daniel and Revelation. With these it's not just the Scripture, or the text of the Scripture alone, but there are also 18 Prophetic periods of time that can be used for direction.

I would actually rather be talking about where I think we really are right now in the Apocalyptic Prophecy timeline. But because I think we are much closer to the actual second coming of Messiah, it's probably just better to sit back, be silent, and wait and see what happens next. Let the Son of Man surprise us now on a day that we do not expect.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Douggg]

Ezekiel 38:8 indicates that the Gog/Magog attack on Israel will be on the present day Israel over there right now.

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Ezekiel 38:8 indicates that the Gog/Magog attack on Israel will be on the present day Israel over there right now.

8 After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

This Gog/Magog attack on Israel is not going to happen on the present day Israel over there right now. I know it's busy right now in the middle east, but Israel can hold it's own. They can take on all adversaries. Today's Israel is not the land of unwalled villages, they are not the quiet people dwelling without walls, and having no bars or gates. They can pave over all of their adversaries, and have the help of the USA if needed against anyone else.

Ezekiel's Gog/Magog is something that could have happened in the first century, after the Babylonian exile, after that land was brought back from the sword, IF the Old Time Jews would have redeemed the 70 weeks of Daniel 9. It was a conditional prophecy.

Ezekiel was writing during the Babylonian exile. His last prophecy recorded is is dated to April 571BC, sixteen years after the destruction of Jerusalem in 587BC. That was before even the Artaxerxes decree to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem in 457BC. The "after many days, in the latter years, is talking about coming back to Israel after the Babylonian exile.

This was a conditional Prophecy having to do with Ancient Israel, not modern day Israel becoming a nation again in 1948.

I'm pretty sure the only type of Gog/Magog you are going to see now is a Gog/Magog spinoff, where Satan and all of his people surround the camp of all of God's People after the 1000 years of Revelation 20 are finished. Ezekiel's version was cancelled due to poor ratings.

"And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them,​

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Lost4words]

Misinterpretation of scripture has been happening since the Bible was put together. Always someone who believes only they have the true answers!!!!!!!

 

[keras]

But because I think we are much closer to the actual second coming of Messiah, it's probably just better to sit back, be silent, and wait and see what happens next. Let the Son of Man surprise us now on a day that we do not expect.

This is the sort of statement that shows your errors and confusion.
The glorious Return of Jesus will not be a surprise; - 1 Thess 4:16 says that Day will be announced by the voice of the Archangel and the sound of Gods trumpet. Also, it comes exactly 1260 days after the Anti-Christ desecrates the Temple.

The great and terrible Day of the Lords fiery wrath, the forthcoming Sixth Seal event, is the Day that we do not know when it will come.

Thanks for showing how Dougggg carefully omitted the fact of the peoples in the Holy Land when G/M attacks, will be undefended.
The G/M attack is plainly against Gods people, who will gather and live in all of the Holy Land, soon after all that area is cleared and cleansed by the Lords Day of wrath.

 

[keras]

Misinterpretation of scripture has been happening since the Bible was put together. Always someone who believes only they have the true answers!!!!!!!

No one is claiming they have all the answers.
I have yet to see you post something positive and helpful.