Questions and Answers about Masonry

Albion · Sep 7, 2013

Tigger45 said:
This is the secrecy I was aluting to that Albion nonchalantly LOL at. Which only serves to discourage open dialogue from reasonable inquirers.

What secrecy, Tigger? Unless you ask something, how can I (or any of us) keep it from you?

And if you read that post again, you might see that the LOL was that no one ever asks about the Knights of Columbus or the AFL-CIO's inner workings, yet no one seems to accuse them of being secretive, do they? If you don't see some irony in that, just forget it.

Skip Sampson · Sep 7, 2013

circuitrider said:
I think you'd be aware that while I can tell you something is not in the ritual I cannot confirm for you what is in the ritual.

I can live with that. I can get the truth from my rituals, monitors and training materials, but it's just as important to have the mistakes pointed out.

This another reason, I realize, that as a non-Mason it is tough for you to get accurate information.

That used to be true, but now there are so many GL books around these days that I have more an overload of information than a lack. For example, I know that the quote is accurate from both ritual and monitor published by the IA GL. Very little is unknown these days, for anyone wishing to learn.

At any rate, I appreciate the consideration and I will avoid using IA ritual in our discussions. Cordially, Skip.

Skip Sampson · Sep 7, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
With never sitting in a lodge you can never know how we apply the rules.

I'm not interested in your rules. I am interested in what Freemasonry teaches, and that is fully available in GL rituals, monitors and training materials.

I've seen several Masonic references that state that a person can read all the ritual, but not be impacted by it as one would be who had actually undergone it in a Masonic lodge. Their point is that the participant is transformed in a way the reader is not, the understanding being that a force is transmitted during the ritual which affects the change in the candidate. Very little Masonic consideration is given to determining just what force is moving through the ritual that accomplishes that transformation. Seems clear to me, though.

So, don't cry for me, Argentina. I have no wish to experience the Masonic transformation or the force behind it. I'll just let the Holy Spirit continue his uphill battle of turning me into something useful. Cordially, Skip.

Tigger45 · Sep 7, 2013

Albion said:
What secrecy, Tigger? Unless you ask something, how can I (or any of us) keep it from you?

And if you read that post again, you might see that the LOL was that no one ever asks about the Knights of Columbus or the AFL-CIO's inner workings, yet no one seems to accuse them of being secretive, do they? If you don't see some irony in that, just forget it.

Never mind another poster figured out what I was saying. I would prefer to have this conversation with him. Thank you.

Simpleman25 · Sep 7, 2013

Skip Sampson said:
I'm not interested in your rules. I am interested in what Freemasonry teaches, and that is fully available in GL rituals, monitors and training materials.

I've seen several Masonic references that state that a person can read all the ritual, but not be impacted by it as one would be who had actually undergone it in a Masonic lodge. Their point is that the participant is transformed in a way the reader is not, the understanding being that a force is transmitted during the ritual which affects the change in the candidate. Very little Masonic consideration is given to determining just what force is moving through the ritual that accomplishes that transformation. Seems clear to me, though.

So, don't cry for me, Argentina. I have no wish to experience the Masonic transformation or the force behind it. I'll just let the Holy Spirit continue his uphill battle of turning me into something useful. Cordially, Skip.

Wow, now your talking about some transformation. Incredible how you 'skip' over the simplest of things. Take one sentence and transform it to fit your agenda. Or your cults agenda I should say.

I can't make it any simpler for you. You do not have the applicable skills to understand freemasonry. Read all you want. If you can't apply it, it's useless.

Skip Sampson · Sep 8, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
Wow, now your talking about some transformation.

No, Freemasons are. Go read the CA GL discussion on Masonic Transformation and you'll get the idea. It's in their EA Candidate Guide, pages 7 & 8. Here's the link so you won't hurt yourself looking for it:
http://www.freemason.org/doc/Candidate Guide: Entered Apprentice Degree.pdf?id=171

Cordially, Skip.

circuitrider · Sep 8, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
Wow, now your talking about some transformation. Incredible how you 'skip' over the simplest of things. Take one sentence and transform it to fit your agenda. Or your cults agenda I should say.

I can't make it any simpler for you. You do not have the applicable skills to understand freemasonry. Read all you want. If you can't apply it, it's useless.

Simpleman, I've noticed that anti-masons, particular those from fundamentalist Christian backgrounds, freak out at any idea that a person could have a transformative experience of any kind outside of the church.

But there are a lot of life experiences including marriage, birth of a child, training and education, etc. that can have a transforming effect on a person, the maturity, and their outlook on life.

So I have no problem saying that a proper understanding of and experience of freemasonry can be transformative. I didn't say salvific. Salvation is found in our faith in Christ. I said transformative.

Simpleman25 · Sep 8, 2013

Skip Sampson said:
No, Freemasons are. Go read the CA GL discussion on Masonic Transformation and you'll get the idea. It's in their EA Candidate Guide, pages 7 & 8. Here's the link so you won't hurt yourself looking for it:
http://www.freemason.org/doc/Candidate Guide: Entered Apprentice Degree.pdf?id=171

Cordially, Skip.

Armchair you're so funny sometimes. Hurt myself. That's comedic talent there folks.

circuitrider · Sep 8, 2013

Simpleman25 said:
Armchair you're so funny sometimes. Hurt myself. That's comedic talent there folks.

You might try blocking the "book Masons" Simpleman. It is very satisfying.

Simpleman25 · Sep 8, 2013

circuitrider said:
You might try blocking the "book Masons" Simpleman. It is very satisfying.

It might come to that at some point. Just not yet.

You can't face them on their cult site, emfj. Whenever they've been faced with a mason that knows something, they shut him down.

Even though they pout and stomp their feet, the last thing they want is an open and honest discussion.

Nope, armchair and strawman would rather troll the internet attempting to disparage masonry at every chance. You'd think that after they've been shown that their wrong, they'd give up.

That's where I started my research into how emfj and e511 became cults. Once you piece it together its so obvious you'd think anyone would recognize it. Not those that are blinded by their own rage.

circuitrider · Sep 8, 2013

Actually I think they thrive on the attention.

americanvet · Sep 10, 2013

I have a question for my fellow brother Mason's. Why did you decide to join Masonry?

circuitrider · Sep 10, 2013

I joined in part because of family. I'm at last a 5th generation Freemason. My Grandfather was quite active. But I didn't join until I was in my 30s. Younger preachers move around a lot at first so I joined in a place I felt I'd be settled into for quite a while.

I also joined because I admired the order and men I knew who were Masons. I'm also a history buff and enjoy the long history of the Craft.

Simpleman25 · Sep 10, 2013

americanvet said:
I have a question for my fellow brother Mason's. Why did you decide to join Masonry?

Great question brother! Don't forget to give us your answer to.

I've known many masons in my life. I just didn't ask any of them what or who it was about.

Before his stroke, my father in law and I played golf every chance we got. Even though at the time he lived a couple hundred miles from me, we played at least twice a month for years.

One day I got around to asking him about masonry. He was clever about it and knew the best way to get my attention. He only have one answer that day. He said masonry would make me a better father, husband, and man under God. Every time he and I were alone I'd ask him questions, only to receive short answers.

One time he told me to ask one of my dad's best friends about it. I said I wasn't sure he was a mason. Ron just smiled.

Imagine my surprise that two men that had previously only met maybe twice knew more about each other than I did.

Then I was told that the man I went to work for out of school was also a mason. He is one of the most influential men in my life. I learned more about business from him in a year than I learned on college. He also turned me onto my passion of flying.

In a nutshell, after joining, I found so many men I knew that were masons. Couldn't believe it took me as long as it did!

My proudest accomplishment as a mason was putting together a traveling degree team that was based on the ancient ways of freemasonry. Over the years we've raised hundreds of masons in 37 different states.

americanvet · Sep 10, 2013

At one time I was almost an anti-mason myself. I thought that Mason's worshiped a Masonic god and was religion. Both of my grandfathers were Masons and so was my father. I was a Christian and didn't think I could ever belong to that "cult". Well then one of my grandfathers died and he had a Masonic funeral. I noticed all the men I knew from my childhood were Masons. My cousin whom I respect as a strong Christian (he is not a Mason to be clear) said him and pawpaw (our grandfather) had talked and he was sure pawpaw had been saved years ago.

This made me think. So instead of taking information at face value and believe what I had heard. I started reading. I read from Saints Alive and the like as well as Masonic sites such as Ask a Freemason. The claims made by the anti-Masonic groups were outrageous. So outrageous that I started to doubt the validity of any of their claims. This process started in November and by January of the following year I had petitioned my home lodge.

People can say what they will, but going through the degrees I know they are wrong. They might not be wrong intentionally and I truly believe most only want to do the work of Christ. I have found nothing, not one single thing, in Masonry to conflict with my Christian faith. I was misinformed about what Masonry was and I now love what I have found it to be. If it's not for another brother in Christ then I support them. The lodge comes after many many other things in my life as it should be and even tells the members that it should.

My only regret about Masonry is that I was never able to set in lodge with my late grandfather.

circuitrider · Sep 10, 2013

americanvet said:
My only regret about Masonry is that I was never able to set in lodge with my late grandfather.

I understand. I have the same regret about my Grandfather. He was a strong Christian and, by all accounts, a very active Mason.

Skip Sampson · Sep 12, 2013

Gentlemen:
Let us suppose a group of Muslims wanted to form a Muslim lodge in a U.S. state. They specifically noted in their by-laws that only Muslims would be accepted as members of the lodge. For the Masons out there, would that be permitted in your jurisdiction? If not, why not? Cordially, Skip.

Albion · Sep 12, 2013

Skip Sampson said:
Gentlemen:
Let us suppose a group of Muslims wanted to form a Muslim lodge in a U.S. state. They specifically noted in their by-laws that only Muslims would be accepted as members of the lodge. For the Masons out there, would that be permitted in your jurisdiction? If not, why not? Cordially, Skip.

A group of Muslims could not form a Muslim lodge in this state, for it is not permitted to make any certain religious affiliation a membership requirement.

circuitrider · Sep 12, 2013

Albion said:
A group of Muslims could not form a Muslim lodge in this state, for it is not permitted to make any certain religious affiliation a membership requirement.

Nor in my jurisdiction. One of the lodges I hold membership in does have a member of the Islamic faith. There may be more. But, again, we don't ask people their religious affiliation beyond a belief in God.

americanvet · Sep 12, 2013

Albion said:
A group of Muslims could not form a Muslim lodge in this state, for it is not permitted to make any certain religious affiliation a membership requirement.

Same for my state.

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