• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Questions about magnetism

usexpat97

kewlness
Aug 1, 2012
3,308
1,619
Ecuador
✟84,349.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Our current particle accelerators are nowhere near the energy levels to test at GUT scales.
The centre of mass energy for the Large Hadron Collider is 14 TeV = 1.4 x 10⁴ GeV.
The GUT energy scale is around 10¹⁵ GeV.

"Proposed" particle accelerators to probe at the GUT scale are at best works of science fiction.

The Undulator Radiation Collider: An Energy Efficient Design For A...

Let me see if I understand this correctly:

Obviously we don't have hard experimental data for how much energy it takes for a proton to penetrate a monopole particle's outer boson layer, to produce a positron. We never discovered monopoles yet. So you are gauging how much energy it would take based on your astrophysics background, and for that you look to the order of magnitude of energy levels involved in early GUT epochs from the big bang (I am not that familiar with astrophysics). And drawing from that, monopole particles are theorized to have spontaneously formed at an early GUT epoch where the energy levels far exceed the H+ collisions we synthesize today in particle accelerators.

Correct?
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,757
4,691
✟348,794.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Let me see if I understand this correctly:

Obviously we don't have hard experimental data for how much energy it takes for a proton to penetrate a monopole particle's outer boson layer, to produce a positron. We never discovered monopoles yet. So you are gauging how much energy it would take based on your astrophysics background, and for that you look to the order of magnitude of energy levels involved in early GUT epochs from the big bang (I am not that familiar with astrophysics). And drawing from that, monopole particles are theorized to have spontaneously formed at an early GUT epoch where the energy levels far exceed the H+ collisions we synthesize today in particle accelerators.

Correct?
If I was reading your previous post correctly you were suggesting a collision test to detect magnetic monopoles.
There is a problem with that.
Since magnetic monopoles are extremely massive if they are accelerated by an external magnetic field, the field loses energy and would eventually dissipate.
By taking the our galaxy’s magnetic field into account we can define an upper limit (Parker limit) for the magnetic monopole flux F which is;
F ≤ 10⁻¹⁵ cm⁻² sec⁻¹ sr⁻¹.

monopole.jpg


What this amounts to is an extremely low density and the probability of a collision occurring is for all intents and purposes zero.

The only possibility is to create magnetic monopoles in particle accelerators but as mentioned previously GUT magnetic monopoles are beyond the energy range of current particle accelerators.

A theory suggests since electron-positron pairs can be created from high energy photons there is a corresponding magnetic analogue of a magnetic monopole-antimonopole in north south pairs that can be produced in collisions where the kinetic energy for collision is greater than the combined mass of the pair.
The masses are far lower than the GUT magnetic monopoles and the Large Hadron Collider has been searching for these light monopoles in proton-proton collisions since 2010
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

usexpat97

kewlness
Aug 1, 2012
3,308
1,619
Ecuador
✟84,349.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
If I was reading your previous post correctly you were suggesting a collision test to detect magnetic monopoles.

Actually, no. My goal is not to try and find it, but to apply it. I leave it to the physicists to try and figure out the universe. I take what they find and make money with it, so that the physicists have funding. It may sound like jumping the gun a lot to try and apply something that hasn't even been discovered yet, but this article I found did imply that condensed-matter monopoles were exhibiting properties that I can take advantage of. Plus, any way which allows me to exercise a greater degree of control over flux in superconductors is big money.

What I was asking about the collisions was about your equation where a proton punches through the boson outer shell and produces a positron. I assume that takes just gobs of energy to emit that positron, and if that's true, then it is probably not practical for my purposes. But if it is really more about getting a proton to hit it just right in a lab setting, then that is a different story.
 
Upvote 0

sjastro

Newbie
May 14, 2014
5,757
4,691
✟348,794.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Actually, no. My goal is not to try and find it, but to apply it. I leave it to the physicists to try and figure out the universe. I take what they find and make money with it, so that the physicists have funding. It may sound like jumping the gun a lot to try and apply something that hasn't even been discovered yet, but this article I found did imply that condensed-matter monopoles were exhibiting properties that I can take advantage of. Plus, any way which allows me to exercise a greater degree of control over flux in superconductors is big money.

The equation d + X → e+ only applies to magnetic monopoles as fundamental particles, not to spin ices as per the article.
Furthermore since magnetic monopole particles have never been detected the equation is theoretical.
In our current Universe the “opposite” reaction occurs where the down quark (d) is converted to an electron (e⁻) instead of a positron (e+) via the weak force interaction involving the W⁻ boson.

(1) d → u + W⁻ where u is the up quark.
(2) W⁻ → e⁻ + ῡₑ where ῡₑ is the electron antineutrino.

Magnetic monopoles as fundamental particles bear no resemblance to spin ices and were formed at a time in the Universe’s evolution when protons, neutrons and electrons did not exist as separate particles.
During the GUT epoch of the early Universe the X leptoquark, W and Z bosons were stable but no longer exist naturally in the current Universe.
While the X leptoquark is hypothetical, the W and Z bosons can be produced in particle accelerators as unstable virtual particles that mediate the weak force.

What I was asking about the collisions was about your equation where a proton punches through the boson outer shell and produces a positron. I assume that takes just gobs of energy to emit that positron, and if that's true, then it is probably not practical for my purposes. But if it is really more about getting a proton to hit it just right in a lab setting, then that is a different story.

No it’s the down quark (d) of the proton, not the proton itself that interacts with the X leptoquark to produce the positron and as mentioned previously is not applicable to spin ices.
The spin ices have the chemical formulae Ho₂Ti₂O₇ and Dy₂Ti₂O₇ where the Ho and Dy atoms have the electron orbital configurations [Xe]4f¹¹6s² and [Xe]4f¹⁰6s² respectively.
In an atom where all the electrons are paired into parallel and antiparallel spins there is no magnetic moment.
However in the 4f orbital there are 3 unpaired electrons in the Ho and 4 in the Dy atoms.

Ho_Dy.jpg


The atoms behave as magnetic ions while their geometric arrangement in the spin ice gives the magnetic monopole behaviour.

The bottom line is you won't get anywhere in "making money" by thinking there is a possible overlap between fundamental magnetic monopoles and materials behaving as magnetic monopoles that can be exploited.
 
Last edited:
  • Informative
Reactions: bhillyard
Upvote 0

Michael

Contributor
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
25,145
1,721
Mt. Shasta, California
Visit site
✟320,648.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Actually, no. My goal is not to try and find it, but to apply it. I leave it to the physicists to try and figure out the universe. I take what they find and make money with it, so that the physicists have funding. It may sound like jumping the gun a lot to try and apply something that hasn't even been discovered yet, but this article I found did imply that condensed-matter monopoles were exhibiting properties that I can take advantage of. Plus, any way which allows me to exercise a greater degree of control over flux in superconductors is big money.

What I was asking about the collisions was about your equation where a proton punches through the boson outer shell and produces a positron. I assume that takes just gobs of energy to emit that positron, and if that's true, then it is probably not practical for my purposes. But if it is really more about getting a proton to hit it just right in a lab setting, then that is a different story.

I'm afraid you'll be waiting a long time for physicists to figure out the universe. :)

No, monopoles do not exist as far as we know, and no experiment to date has demonstrated their existence, which is why the whole field of "magnetic reconnection" is speculative nonsense. Unlike electric fields, magnetic fields have no source, they have no sink, and therefore they have no way to "disconnect from", nor "reconnect to" any other magnetic field lines.

Electric fields on the other hand have a source and a sink.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

usexpat97

kewlness
Aug 1, 2012
3,308
1,619
Ecuador
✟84,349.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
No, monopoles do not exist as far as we know, and no experiment to date has demonstrated their existence, which is why the whole field of "magnetic reconnection" is speculative nonsense.

I am not so quick to dismiss it, though, because presently we already model some macroscopic systems as quantum wave functions (normally we use QWFs to model particles), and the experimental data more-or-less validates the wave theory behind it. For example qubits are frequently superconducting loops separated by thin insulating barriers. You might have 10^28 cooper pairs spinning round and round, yet we successfully model that whole macroscopic system using quantum theory.

In the same way, I'm gathering there has been success gathering experimental data suggesting magnetic monopole behavior in a larger system, such as a condensed crystal lattice. If we see a larger system exhibit the same behavior we theorized for fundamental particles, then a) that seems to anecdotally (not definitively) suggest the existence of said particles, and b) that information is still useful, particle or no particle.
 
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
42,054
45,171
Los Angeles Area
✟1,005,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
In the same way, I'm gathering there has been success gathering experimental data suggesting magnetic monopole behavior in a larger system, such as a condensed crystal lattice.

Not really. Post 18:

"Since around 2003, various condensed-matter physics groups have used the term "magnetic monopole" to describe a different and largely unrelated phenomenon."
 
Upvote 0

usexpat97

kewlness
Aug 1, 2012
3,308
1,619
Ecuador
✟84,349.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Single
Upvote 0

essentialsaltes

Fact-Based Lifeform
Oct 17, 2011
42,054
45,171
Los Angeles Area
✟1,005,985.00
Country
United States
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Legal Union (Other)
But that's what modelling macroscopic systems as quantum wave functions is. "Not really."

Ringworm is not a worm.

"various condensed-matter physics groups have used the term "magnetic monopole" to describe a different and largely unrelated phenomenon."
 
Upvote 0