• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Questions about Islam

wake up call

Active Member
Jul 28, 2004
54
1
✟181.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Upvote 0

wake up call

Active Member
Jul 28, 2004
54
1
✟181.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
PurelyIslam said:
We Muslims aslo believe Jesus spoke in the cradle.."Then she (Mary) pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' He (Jesus) said: ‘Verily! I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; " (19:29-30).



this was a "Legend" that Muhammad plagiarised from the Gnostic "Gospel of Infancy " that was written in the second century..many manuscripts of this Gospel were found, among which are even some Arabic portions !!!! besides Greek, Syriac and Latin.

This gospel was refuted by the the early church fathers such as Origin and Irenaus.


the importance of this "apocrypha" gospel is that the auther/s noticed the fact that there is not much details about the childhood of Jesus in the 4 canonical gospels, so the focus was given to recounting childhood legends.

and also in Sura 3:49 and 5:113 it is related that as a child Jesus made clay pigeons and by breathing on them made them come alive so that they could fly away. This was taken from the "Gospel of Thomas" (Apocrypha).

that is why the Arabs accused Muhammad of recounting mere ancient legends:

وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ مَاذَا أَنْزَلَ رَبُّكُمْ قَالُوا أَسَاطِيرُ الْأَوَّلِينَ (24)

16: 24. And when it is said to them, `What think ye of that which your Lord has sent down ?' They say, `They are but mere stories of the ancients.'
 
Upvote 0

Nemesis420

Active Member
Jul 31, 2004
123
1
✟258.00
Faith
Muslim
SIMILARITIES IN THE QUR’AN AND THE BIBLE DUE TO COMMON SOURCE



Similarities between the Qur’an and the Bible does not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter. In fact it gives evidence that both of them are based on a common third source; all divine revelations came from the same source - the one universal God. No matter what human changes were introduced into some of these Judeo-Christian and other older religious scriptures that had distorted their originality, there are some areas that have remained free from distortion and thus are common to many religions.

It is true that there are some similar parallels between the Qur’an and the Bible but this is not sufficient to accuse Muhummad (pbuh) of compiling or copying from the Bible. The same logic would then also be applicable to teachings of Christianity and Judaism and thus one could wrongly claim that Jesus (pbuh) was not a genuine Prophet (God forbid) and that he simply copied from the Old Testament.

The similarities between the two signify a common source that is one true God and the continuation of the basic message of monotheism and not that the later prophets have plagiarised from the previous prophets.

If someone copies during an examination he will surely not write in the answer sheet that he has copied from his neighbour or Mr. XYZ. Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) gave due respect and credit to all the previous prophets (pbut). The Qur’an also mentions the various revelations given by Almighty God to different prophets.

 
Upvote 0

wake up call

Active Member
Jul 28, 2004
54
1
✟181.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Nemesis420 said:
SIMILARITIES IN THE QUR’AN AND THE BIBLE DUE TO COMMON SOURCE



Similarities between the Qur’an and the Bible does not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter.
copying and pasting in a hasty way will not save you, knowing that you are not even responding to the point
my post above yours is talking about legends about Christ in the Quran and its sources (not Bibilical)
so why are you talking about the Bible?
 
Upvote 0

Nemesis420

Active Member
Jul 31, 2004
123
1
✟258.00
Faith
Muslim
I am giving u an example my friend, I trying to show there are some text in Quran same to other holy book but it does not mean it is a copy of other holy book. If i ask person 1 Ohm's Law his answer might be V=IR
Person 2 says v=IR aswell, now the fast that the right answer is V=IR it does not mean that person 2 copied person 1.
 
Upvote 0

wake up call

Active Member
Jul 28, 2004
54
1
✟181.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Nemesis420 said:
I am giving u an example my friend, I trying to show there are some text in Quran same to other holy book but it does not mean it is a copy of other holy book.
I'm just wondering if you ever read before writing your reply? !!!

The Quran simply contained legends from ( NOT HOLY) books
so your reply is irrelevant and makes no sense :confused:
 
Upvote 0

Nemesis420

Active Member
Jul 31, 2004
123
1
✟258.00
Faith
Muslim
yes it does as i said before we belive there were 1000s of prohets, so Quran shares a common source with other relgions. So what is wrong with that.

For example if i was writting my last ever book and i have already written 1000s of books.

As it is my last book i might add characters from my other books.
 
Upvote 0

wake up call

Active Member
Jul 28, 2004
54
1
✟181.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Nemesis420 said:
yes it does as i said before we belive there were 1000s of prohets, so Quran shares a common source with other relgions. So what is wrong with that.
nothing is wrong, thank you for the admission
you only have to know that these other sources are not Gabriel (Jebril)

:cool:

let us give you one more example of "LEGENDS OF THE ANCIENT" contained in the Quran, and their sources

in Surah 18:9-26 the Quran talks about " the Companions of the Cave أهل الكهف , or what is known in the West as the "Seven sleepers" as if it is a true story that actually took place:

9."Or dost thou reflect that the Companions of the Cave and of the Inscription were wonders among Our Sign?
10. Behold, the youths betook themselves to the Cave: they said, "Our Lord! bestow on us Mercy from Thyself, and dispose of our affair for us in the right way!"
11.Then We draw (a veil) over their ears, for a number of years, in the Cave, (so that they heard not):

....and so on, till verse 26
but in reality, this was a mere legend

The story is one of the many examples of the legend about a man who falls asleep and years after wakes up to find the world changed. It is told in Greek by Symeon Metaphrastes (q.v.) in his "Lives of the Saints" for the month of July. Gregory of Tours did it into Latin. There is a Syriac version by James of Sarug (d. 521), and from the Syriac the story was done into other Eastern languages

Gregory of Tours's book is called "Glory of the Martyrs"

let me quote :

Latin work of Gregory of Tours,' and may be described in brief as referring to the age of the Emperor Decius (249-251 A.D.), when Christians were terribly persecuted, and every endeavor made to destroy the Faith. To escape with their lives, seven men of Ephesus took refuge in a Cave near their city, and fell asleep for two hundred years, till the reign of Theodorus II. (447 A.D.). On awaking, one of them ventured into the City to see what in the interval had happened, and was overcome with amazement to find the Christian faith triumphant over all other religions. The Cross, once the sign of shame and disgrace, now the crown of the Emperor, and the mark of Empire; and nearly the whole people of the land turned Christians. All this is of course a mere story, composed no doubt to illustrate the rapidity with which, by the grace of the Holy Spirit and shedding of Martyrs' blood, the Faith had gained ascendancy at the last. No Christian ever dreamt that the tale was true

end quote



but of course Muhammad thought that this was a true story, so he included the legend in the Quran

Surah 18 8-26. Dost thou consider that the Companions of the Cave, and al Rakim, were one of our signs and a great miracle? When the young men took refuge in the Cave, they said, O Lord, grant us mercy from before Thee, and dispose our business for us to a right issue. Wherefore we struck their ears so that they slept in the Cave for a great number of years: then we awakened them....We will relate unto thee their history with truth. They were young men who had believed in their Lord; and we had abundantly directed them; and we fortified their hearts with constancy when they stood before the judge; and they said Our Lord is the Lord of heaven and earth; we will by no means call on any god besides him; for then we should surely utter an extravagance....And they said to one another, When ye shall separate yourselves from them, and from that which they worship besides God, then fly into the Cave: your Lord will pour his mercy upon you abundantly and dispose your business to advantage. And thou mightest have seen the sun, when it had risen to decline from their Cave to the right hand, and when it went down, to leave them on the left hand: and they were in the spacious part of the Cave. This was one of the signs of God....And thou wouldest have judged them to have been awake, while they were sleeping; and we caused them to turn themselves to the right hand and to the left. And their dog stretched forth his fore-legs in the mouth of the Cave; if thou hadst come suddenly upon them, verily thou wouldst have turned thy back and fled from them, and thou wouldst have been filled with fear at the sight of them. And so we awaked them out of their sleep, that they might ask questions of one another. One of them said, How long have ye tarried here? They answered, We have tarried a day, or part of a day. Others said: Your Lord best knoweth the time ye have tarried. And now send one of you with this your money into the City, and let him see which of its people hath the best and cheapest food, and let him bring you provision from him; and let him behave circumspectly, and not discover you to anyone. Verily, if they come up against you, they will stone you, or force you to return to their religion; and then shall you not prosper for ever. And so we made their people acquainted with what had happened to them....And they said, Erect a Chapel over them; their Lord best knoweth their condition.... Some say the Sleepers were three, and their dog was the fourth; others say they were five, and their dog the sixth, guessing at a secret matter; and others say they were Seven, and their dog the eigth.Say, My Lord best knoweth their numbers; none shall know them except a few. Wherefore dispute not concerning them, unless with a clear disputation, and ask not any (of the Christians) concerning them....And they remained in their Cave 300 years and 9 years over.


and you can check the source book here Gregory of Tours: Glory of the Martyrs (Translated Texts for Historians) from Amazon

so the Arab accusation to Muhammad that his Quran was "LEGENDS of the Ancient" still stands

:cool:
 
Upvote 0

Nemesis420

Active Member
Jul 31, 2004
123
1
✟258.00
Faith
Muslim
I did not want to do this but u give me no choice.

Did Bible copy from Hypocrites and Gallon,

Hypocrites and Gallon, at that time, they said that… ‘Even the women have got sperm’

Even the Bible says that. If you read in the Bible, it is mentioned in Leviticus Chapter No.12, Verse No.1 to 12, that woman gives out seed - So actually Bible is copying from Hypocrites.


And Bible says in Job… Bible says in Job, Chapter No.10, Verse No.9 and 10, that… ‘We have made the human beings from clay, like poured out milk and curdled cheese.’Poured out milk and curdled cheese, is exact plaguerisation from Hypocrites.

So what is this all about bible coping some old Greeks

You acuse my of coping and pasting so what u doing then.

Other thing come to the point quick what u trying to say cause i dont have all day to read ur essay.
 
Upvote 0

wake up call

Active Member
Jul 28, 2004
54
1
✟181.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
once again you prove to NEVER read what is written above your post
when we are discussing Islam, so Islam it is
you can't defend Islam by pointing fingers at others !!!
you can start a different subject to discuss the Bible

and there is a big difference between "Copy and Paste" a full reply and (Quoting) to support your point

I have posted three (I have more if you want) examples so far that are pre-Islamic "LEGENDS" contained in the Quran, how do you respond to that without having to say so and so has the same?
 
Upvote 0

peaceful soul

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2003
5,986
184
✟7,592.00
Faith
Non-Denom
wake up call said:
I'm just wondering if you ever read before writing your reply? !!!

The Quran simply contained legends from ( NOT HOLY) books
so your reply is irrelevant and makes no sense :confused:

Definitely check out the Talmud too. Legends abound. There are several of them that make if less likely to conclude that their occurance in Qu'ran is just a coincidence.
 
Upvote 0

wake up call

Active Member
Jul 28, 2004
54
1
✟181.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Nemesis420 said:
firstly u have a long essay which get really borring to read, so just get to the point.
Secondly LEGENDS in Quran so what is ur point. I still dont understand what u trying to say. So pls get to the point
1- if you think it is a lenghty ( and i know it is) then why reply to something that you did not read?
2- Legends in the Quran: means LEGENDS in the Quran
very simple
means Jebril is a "Legend"
means Muhammad's claim to receiving a revelation a mere lie that even some of his own scribes were able to conclude and left him (Killed of course)

:cool:
 
Upvote 0

peaceful soul

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2003
5,986
184
✟7,592.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Nemesis420 said:
I dont understand is there some thing wrong here, are these stories wrong or what.

They are not true, therefore, they can not be accepted in a holy book unless they are used as perhaps, metaphors. Is that clear? Jesus' making birds out of clay would not be considered a metaphor. It is represented as a fact. Is it not?
 
Upvote 0