Questions About Hell

[Dorothy Mae]

When God gives us moral law to follow, is He not giving us what He is and would do Himself? It's like the response I see from time to time (a good response) which asks this question: "If God commands us to forgive our enemies, yet is unwilling to do it Himself by actively throwing them into hell, is He asking us to be better than He is?"

Is the moral law of God reflective of God's character? If so, then lex talionis applies to God's justice as well as ours.

If a judge, any judge, fails to
inact justice to the perpetrator, he is failing to fulfill the moral law except for special circumstances. If God let perpetrators who refused him and his government into heaven, there’d be no heaven anymore.

 

[FineLinen]

physical death is apparent to everyone and more powerful.

Dear Dorothy Mae:

NONSENSE!

All death is swallowed up in Zao Life! It is not only more Life, it is more abundant life.

"We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored."

Please welcome the God of Restoration

 

[FineLinen]

If a judge, any judge, fails to
inact justice to the perpetrator, he is failing to fulfill the moral law except for special circumstances. If God let perpetrators who refused him and his government into heaven, there’d be no heaven anymore.

Fear not Dorothy.

Every last rotten sinner is not getting into heaven unchanged, not one!

Adam1 and his seed "made sinners">>>>

Last Adam= His seed "made righteous".

 

[FineLinen]

“The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in never to go out again, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The ‘eternal state’ is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the ‘final perfection’ yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God.” –V. Gelesnoff

 

[martymonster]

If a judge, any judge, fails to
inact justice to the perpetrator, he is failing to fulfill the moral law except for special circumstances. If God let perpetrators who refused him and his government into heaven, there’d be no heaven anymore.

Do you have some scripture to back that up? It just sounds like you pulled that one out of thin air.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Do you have some scripture to back that up? It just sounds like you pulled that one out of thin air.

You need a Bible verse to tell you that if a “kind-hearted”merciful judge let’s all criminals off with no punishment that he is being unjust? Would you like such a man to open the jails in your city and let them all free into your neighborhood? Do you see a problem with justice there?

 

[martymonster]

You need a Bible verse to tell you that if a “kind-hearted”merciful judge let’s all criminals off with no punishment that he is being unjust? Would you like such a man to open the jails in your city and let them all free into your neighborhood? Do you see a problem with justice there?

It's precisely because God is just, that he won't torment anyone for all of eternity. No finite creature can commit a crime worthy of eternal punishment, not to mention, that everyone who was in such a place, would be receiving the exact same punishment, for wildly varying crimes. There is absolutely no scripture that says that a sinner is worthy of anything but death.

 

[AlexDTX]

Maybe to bring them a real joy in knowing just how deep and good the love of God is. Maybe to give them hope for their lost parents, children, relatives, who have rejected Christ umpteen times.

So you are saying that the saints of the Church are BS?

This doctrine is not needed for knowing the depth of God's love. Anyone who walks with God will know this. As for those who die without Christ, only God knows and it is out of our hands. The doctrine is BS, not the saints.

 

[AlexDTX]

Could it be that we find describing our loving heavenly Father in behavioral terms which are more akin to a sociopath than love is offensive to us?

Those who accept US are trying to define what God's love is. Instead of accepting the counsel of Scriptures, you try to determine God's motive and behavior according to the limited knowledge of mankind.

Pro_3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

So, everyone is ultimately saved no matter what, and no one goes to (or stays in) hell, ever, no matter what...?

Some are predestined for hell, or being or staying here in these kinds of realities and never going beyond them, and some are not...? The big question is "why"...?



All of ours is, our righteousness anyway, but not the one that we choose in Christ, and how He (God) makes us righteous... Now yes God already ultimately knows and predestined "all our choices", but because we do not know, we still have a choice in the matter, and our choice or choices still matter very, very much from our perspective or point of view...

It is ultimately God who wills us to choose and make the right choice or choices, etc, but from our perspective or point of view, we must still will ourselves to make or not make the right or wrong choices, etc, from our perspective or point of view, etc, but it was ultimately God who did it all and not us, etc... But and/or because He will "will" us to "will" or not will, etc in the matters we need to, etc, but our own will is still very much involved and very important from our perspective or point of view, etc...

Why do you think you would have no hope otherwise...?

And I would really like to talk about that last point with you if we could please...?

God Bless!

Yes, I don't deny participation is necessary for our sanctification (whether here or in the afterlife - the eternal fire). But maybe only a few martyrs and saints leave this world in a state of pure selfless love and devotion without any shadow of turning. I for one depend heavily (I'd like to say totally) on His grace and mercy, and if He was anything less than perfect in His loving kindness, His patience and forbearance, would we not have all have been toast long ago? That's what I meant by 'no hope'.

 

[FineLinen]

This doctrine is not needed for knowing the depth of God's love. Anyone who walks with God will know this. As for those who die without Christ, only God knows and it is out of our hands. The doctrine is BS, not the saints.

Dear Saint Paul: Are you unaware that what you express by the Spirit of the Lord is BS?

The purpose which He has cherished in His own mind to restore the universe to Himself.

 

[FineLinen]

From eternity past God intended that the most vivid and profound demonstration of his glory would come in the form of His work of salvation on the cross of Christ.

- God then made man to punish him.

- He made him perfect and thus unlikely to ever need punishing, or, for that matter, a Savior.

- By a happy coincidence, and against all the odds, this perfect man sinned, thus allowing God to fulfill His purposes for both the man and Christ.

- When he sinned, God, who is suddenly confronted with the prospect of being able to fulfill all of His original plans, becomes furious.

What you have just read is not a joke. I wish that it were.

Rather, I have simply enumerated the points that comprise the Calvinist theological system, or, as I call it:

the Happy Coincidence model of sin and salvation.

It reflects what can only be described as an Alice-in-Wonderland reality, in -which the only sense is nonsense, and logic is the enemy. -Stephen Campana-

 

[Dorothy Mae]

It's precisely because God is just, that he won't torment anyone for all of eternity. No finite creature can commit a crime worthy of eternal punishment, not to mention, that everyone who was in such a place, would be receiving the exact same punishment, for wildly varying crimes. There is absolutely no scripture that says that a sinner is worthy of anything but death.

Jesus doesn’t agree, He warned of torment and gave no hope of an ending. I’m going with Jesus.

 

[FineLinen]

Those who accept US are trying to define what God's love is. Instead of accepting the counsel of Scriptures, you try to determine God's motive and behavior according to the limited knowledge of mankind.

Pro_3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Dear Father: How shall we define You whose essence is love with our wee pea brains?

Lift us up into the greatness of God, out of narrowness of self into You

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dear Father: How shall we define You whose essence is love with our wee pea brains?

Lift us up into the greatness of God, out of narrowness of self into You

Eve desired something like that prayer. It didn’t go well.

 

[FineLinen]

Jesus doesn’t agree, He warned of torment and gave no hope of an ending. I’m going with Jesus.

And where exactly does Jesus Christ the Saviour of all mankind warn of torment & hope with an ending, little lady?

Gather up the fragments that nothing be lost (apollumi).

 

[Dorothy Mae]

And where exactly does Jesus Christ the Saviour of all mankind warn of torment & hope with an ending, little lady?

Gather up the fragments that nothing be lost (apollumi).

“where the worm dies not” and it’s only those who fulfill his conditions who escape hell. “The smoke of their torment goes up forever.” Those are from memory. I can look up more. What no one ever promises is the dead whose names are not found in the book of life merely are rewarded with eternal sleep.

 

[FineLinen]

“where the worm dies not” and it’s only those who fulfill his conditions who escape hell. “The smoke of their torment goes up forever.” Those are from memory. I can look up more. What no one ever promises is the dead whose names are not found in the book of life merely are rewarded with eternal sleep.

Dear Lady: I wish you the best of luck fulfilling His conditions. If you break one of those conditions you are in big, big trouble.

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dear Lady: I wish you the best of luck fulfilling His conditions. If you break one of those conditions you are in big, big trouble.

Dear man, shall I explain the Gospel to you? You don’t seem to understand it from the above post.

"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

”Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.” Mercy triumphs over judgement

 

[FineLinen]

1. If men are totally depraved by nature, must not children be so likewise?
2. If children be totally depraved, is it true, that "of such is the kingdom of heaven?" -- (Mark 10:14)
3. Men are to be washed from their sins. If they are totally depraved, what is there to wash?
4. If evil men and seducers "wax worse and worse," (2 Tim. 3:13), can they be totally depraved at first?
5. If human reason be "carnal and delusive," why did Jehovah say, "come now and let us REASON together?" -- (Isa. 1:18)
6. If reason be delusive, why should some folks reason against the use of reason?
7. Can an effect exist without a cause sufficiently powerful to produce it?
8. If "we love God because he first loved us," is it true that we must first love HIM before He will love us?
9. If "we love God because he first loved us," is it not plain that He loved US when we did not love HIM?
10. If God loved US when we did not love HIM, is not our love to Him the EFFECT (and not the CAUSE) of His love to US?
11. Was it consistent with divine justice, to love us, when we did not love Him?
12. If God once loved us, will not that love eternally continue?