Questions About Hell

[Light of the East]

Those who accept US are trying to define what God's love is. Instead of accepting the counsel of Scriptures, you try to determine God's motive and behavior according to the limited knowledge of mankind.

Pro_3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

The Scriptures are very interesting regarding the universal scope of God's love and redemption:

But to the pro side of the argument and the title of today’s writing. I encountered an interesting little piece on the Internet in which the writer posted the following question as a heading: Did Jesus Die for All?

God will have all to be saved (1Ti 2:4) Can His will be thwarted? A most legitimate question. The usual answer is “But man has free-will!” Really? So the will of man trumps the will of God? Do you realize what you just said? That means that if puny, weak, nothing man can trump God’s will and be victorious, then you have no guarantee that Satan won’t do the same thing and throw God off His throne, as He wishes to do. You better think about that some more. While you are thinking, consider this regarding God and man’s free will.

God desires all to come to the knowledge of the truth (1Ti 2:4) Will His desire come to pass, or is it just a weak wish? Same as above. Is God all-powerful or not?

Jesus came to save all. (John 12:47) Will He succeed or fail? Excellent question. I can’t begin to tell you how many people will say that the majority of all mankind will wind up eternally separated from God in torment, and in the same breath, declare this to be a wonderful victory for God. That’s like declaring war on an enemy, having him destroy three-quarters of your town and take the people hostage, and then going around saying you won the war. Nonsense! (My real feelings are stronger than this, but I want to keep this family friendly.) And to the point of this blog piece – does all mean all or not?

In Adam all are condemned, in Christ all live (Romans 5: 15-21) Again, does all mean all? One of the most wretched dances I’ve ever witnessed to deny this verse comes from Calvinists who try to say that “all” means “all of the elect.” Calvinism is a ……………never mind. Again, I want to keep it family friendly. Let’s just say that Calvinism insults the character of God.

In Adam all die, in Christ, all live. (1 Corinthians 15:22) One of the strongest verses I’ve seen to declare that God leaves none of His children behind to be devoured by the evil one, even the most wicked and worst of His kids is included. (Yes, Virginia, even Adolf Hitler!) Remember, Saul of Tarsus [i.e. St. Paul] was a murderer just like Hitler. The only difference is in quantity, not quality. God saved Saul, God is not so weak that He can’t eventually save Schicklgruber.

All are reconciled unto God (Col 1:20). Does all really mean all, or only all of a certain class?

God will have mercy on all (Romans 11:32) All?

Jesus died for all (2 Corinthians 5:14-15). There’s that word all again! Did He die in vain? How can you possibly see the Cross as a victory if all do not eventually make it Home?

Honestly, there are another forty verses listed by this site, all of them stating the simple question: does all really mean all? As I study, I have to come to a couple of conclusions:

First conclusion: It is no wonder that the Early Church developed a strong universalist eschatology. They simply believed that which Christ taught. This was the really Good News, that death would not be victor. It is that which we joyfully chant in our Paschal Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, “by death He conquered death.” This was the message of the first century. It was not “Have you accepted Jaaaaaayzuz as your personal Lord and Savior” It was the message that Paul spoke on Mars Hill to the Athenian philosophers, a message to strange to them that many of them said, “We will hear thee again of this matter.” (Acts 17:32)

Yes, Scripture says that ALL - ALL - will experience God's mercy. Therefore, it appears we are stuck in a conundrum - Scripture contradicts Scripture, and as I was taught as a young Evangelical, if you think this is the case, then one of the opinions is wrong and needs to be reworked.

And since it US is consistent with God is love, then I would say that you have some serious misunderstandings of both Christian history and exegesis. For instance, in terms of exegesis, the word "aionios" which has been quite discussed here, then is more easily understood to be "age-lasting" rather than "eternal" because it doesn't create a conflict with the verses that state that God will have mercy upon all.

As for Christian history: Weaponizing God

Yes, nothing as fine as a fierce and hateful God to keep the unwashed, unlearned, and rebellious masses in line, eh? Especially if you claim to be His right-hand man (pope) and want to keep people in line and from jumping ship to some other religion over which you have no control!

 

[Light of the East]

Jesus doesn’t agree, He warned of torment and gave no hope of an ending. I’m going with Jesus.

No, you are going with your own understanding. There are over 40 verses in the Bible which state that God will have mercy on ALL. Not a a few or 1% or the "elect of God" (or some other nonsense like that).

ALL

God will have all to be saved (1Ti 2:4) Can His will be thwarted? A most legitimate question. The usual answer is “But man has free-will!” Really? So the will of man trumps the will of God? Do you realize what you just said? That means that if puny, weak, nothing man can trump God’s will and be victorious, then you have no guarantee that Satan won’t do the same thing and throw God off His throne, as He wishes to do. You better think about that some more. While you are thinking, consider this regarding God and man’s free will.

God desires all to come to the knowledge of the truth (1Ti 2:4) Will His desire come to pass, or is it just a weak wish? Same as above. Is God all-powerful or not?

Jesus came to save all. (John 12:47) Will He succeed or fail? Excellent question. I can’t begin to tell you how many people will say that the majority of all mankind will wind up eternally separated from God in torment, and in the same breath, declare this to be a wonderful victory for God. That’s like declaring war on an enemy, having him destroy three-quarters of your town and take the people hostage, and then going around saying you won the war. Nonsense! (My real feelings are stronger than this, but I want to keep this family friendly.) And to the point of this blog piece – does all mean all or not?

In Adam all are condemned, in Christ all live (Romans 5: 15-21) Again, does all mean all? One of the most wretched dances I’ve ever witnessed to deny this verse comes from Calvinists who try to say that “all” means “all of the elect.” Calvinism is a ……………never mind. Again, I want to keep it family friendly. Let’s just say that Calvinism insults the character of God.

In Adam all die, in Christ, all live. (1 Corinthians 15:22) One of the strongest verses I’ve seen to declare that God leaves none of His children behind to be devoured by the evil one, even the most wicked and worst of His kids is included. (Yes, Virginia, even Adolf Hitler!) Remember, Saul of Tarsus [i.e. St. Paul] was a murderer just like Hitler. The only difference is in quantity, not quality. God saved Saul, God is not so weak that He can’t eventually save Schicklgruber.

All are reconciled unto God (Col 1:20). Does all really mean all, or only all of a certain class?

God will have mercy on all (Romans 11:32) All?

Jesus died for all (2 Corinthians 5:14-15). There’s that word all again! Did He die in vain? How can you possibly see the Cross as a victory if all do not eventually make it Home?

 

[FineLinen]

Dear man, shall I explain the Gospel to you? You don’t seem to understand it from the above post.
”Blessed are the merciful for they shall receive mercy.” Mercy triumphs over judgement

Dear D.M. That silly Saint James just did not grasp keeping the laws of God. Shame on him.

It is to late for poor Saint James, but I do appreciate any effort you put forth in helping me understand the Gospel of God.

The Gospel of the Lord our God is good news, or the announcing of glad tidings by proclamation, all expressed in three words in koine.

If any of us think for a nano second anything we preach, proclaim or announce of the Lord's glorious news of great joy to all people has the slightest negative tone, it is NOT the euangelion or euangelizo of glad tidings of unsurpassing joy which is to the all.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, you are going with your own understanding. There are over 40 verses in the Bible which state that God will have mercy on ALL. Not a a few or 1% or the "elect of God" (or some other nonsense like that).

ALL

God will have all to be saved (1Ti 2:4) Can His will be thwarted? A most legitimate question. The usual answer is “But man has free-will!” Really? So the will of man trumps the will of God? Do you realize what you just said? That means that if puny, weak, nothing man can trump God’s will and be victorious, then you have no guarantee that Satan won’t do the same thing and throw God off His throne, as He wishes to do. You better think about that some more. While you are thinking, consider this regarding God and man’s free will.

God desires all to come to the knowledge of the truth (1Ti 2:4) Will His desire come to pass, or is it just a weak wish? Same as above. Is God all-powerful or not?

Jesus came to save all. (John 12:47) Will He succeed or fail? Excellent question. I can’t begin to tell you how many people will say that the majority of all mankind will wind up eternally separated from God in torment, and in the same breath, declare this to be a wonderful victory for God. That’s like declaring war on an enemy, having him destroy three-quarters of your town and take the people hostage, and then going around saying you won the war. Nonsense! (My real feelings are stronger than this, but I want to keep this family friendly.) And to the point of this blog piece – does all mean all or not?

In Adam all are condemned, in Christ all live (Romans 5: 15-21) Again, does all mean all? One of the most wretched dances I’ve ever witnessed to deny this verse comes from Calvinists who try to say that “all” means “all of the elect.” Calvinism is a ……………never mind. Again, I want to keep it family friendly. Let’s just say that Calvinism insults the character of God.

In Adam all die, in Christ, all live. (1 Corinthians 15:22) One of the strongest verses I’ve seen to declare that God leaves none of His children behind to be devoured by the evil one, even the most wicked and worst of His kids is included. (Yes, Virginia, even Adolf Hitler!) Remember, Saul of Tarsus [i.e. St. Paul] was a murderer just like Hitler. The only difference is in quantity, not quality. God saved Saul, God is not so weak that He can’t eventually save Schicklgruber.

All are reconciled unto God (Col 1:20). Does all really mean all, or only all of a certain class?

God will have mercy on all (Romans 11:32) All?

Jesus died for all (2 Corinthians 5:14-15). There’s that word all again! Did He die in vain?

How can you possibly see the Cross as a victory if all do not eventually make it Home?
[/QUOTE]Its not their home, it’s His. He doesn’t call those who hate Him his own. But i know universalists don’t budge.

 

[FineLinen]

Its not their home, it’s His. He doesn’t call those who hate Him his own. But i know universalists don’t budge.

Dear D.M.: God sets the standard for forgiveness. He instructs us to forgive our enemies 70 X 7 (490 total), but alas He runs out of forgiveness credits for those who "hate" Him? ?

Jesus said, gather up the fragments that NOTHING be lost.

 

[Light of the East]

Why is it so easy to believe in a God who in action and reality HATES mankind as opposed to God who is love?

Perhaps this is an answer:

Understanding the Foundations of Eternal Conscious Torment – Part One

 

[AlexDTX]

Dear Saint Paul: Are you unaware that what you express by the Spirit of the Lord is BS?

The purpose which He has cherished in His own mind to restore the universe to Himself.

You still do not answer my question. How many have given their lives to Christ because of here this doctrine? So far your silence is the answer of none.

St. Paul's writing are not BS, the US interpretation of his writings are BS.

2Pe_3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[AlexDTX]

Dear Father: How shall we define You whose essence is love with our wee pea brains?

Lift us up into the greatness of God, out of narrowness of self into You

Good prayer. To impose a mortal concept of love, based on our limited understanding, is foolish to assume regarding the divine love, which is also righteous.

 

[AlexDTX]

The Scriptures are very interesting regarding the universal scope of God's love and redemption:

I am still waiting for an answer. How many, or who do you know, has come to Christ and made Christ their Lord and Savior as understood by the new birth? No one. Everyone who embraces this doctrine led to Christ by someone who shared the true Gospel, or was born into a denomination and assumes they are Christians because of their upbringing.

 

[HehasRisen]

God is a God of perfect justice; any punishment that occurs in Hell will fit the crime.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No, you are going with your own understanding. There are over 40 verses in the Bible which state that God will have mercy on ALL. Not a a few or 1% or the "elect of God" (or some other nonsense like that).

ALL

God will have all to be saved (1Ti 2:4) Can His will be thwarted? A most legitimate question. The usual answer is “But man has free-will!” Really? So the will of man trumps the will of God? Do you realize what you just said? That means that if puny, weak, nothing man can trump God’s will and be victorious, then you have no guarantee that Satan won’t do the same thing and throw God off His throne, as He wishes to do. You better think about that some more. While you are thinking, consider this regarding God and man’s free will.

God desires all to come to the knowledge of the truth (1Ti 2:4) Will His desire come to pass, or is it just a weak wish? Same as above. Is God all-powerful or not?

Jesus came to save all. (John 12:47) Will He succeed or fail? Excellent question. I can’t begin to tell you how many people will say that the majority of all mankind will wind up eternally separated from God in torment, and in the same breath, declare this to be a wonderful victory for God. That’s like declaring war on an enemy, having him destroy three-quarters of your town and take the people hostage, and then going around saying you won the war. Nonsense! (My real feelings are stronger than this, but I want to keep this family friendly.) And to the point of this blog piece – does all mean all or not?

In Adam all are condemned, in Christ all live (Romans 5: 15-21) Again, does all mean all? One of the most wretched dances I’ve ever witnessed to deny this verse comes from Calvinists who try to say that “all” means “all of the elect.” Calvinism is a ……………never mind. Again, I want to keep it family friendly. Let’s just say that Calvinism insults the character of God.

In Adam all die, in Christ, all live. (1 Corinthians 15:22) One of the strongest verses I’ve seen to declare that God leaves none of His children behind to be devoured by the evil one, even the most wicked and worst of His kids is included. (Yes, Virginia, even Adolf Hitler!) Remember, Saul of Tarsus [i.e. St. Paul] was a murderer just like Hitler. The only difference is in quantity, not quality. God saved Saul, God is not so weak that He can’t eventually save Schicklgruber.

All are reconciled unto God (Col 1:20). Does all really mean all, or only all of a certain class?

God will have mercy on all (Romans 11:32) All?

Jesus died for all (2 Corinthians 5:14-15). There’s that word all again! Did He die in vain? How can you possibly see the Cross as a victory if all do not eventually make it Home?

He had no mercy on Sodom and G.

 

[Light of the East]

I am still waiting for an answer. How many, or who do you know, has come to Christ and made Christ their Lord and Savior as understood by the new birth? No one. Everyone who embraces this doctrine led to Christ by someone who shared the true Gospel, or was born into a denomination and assumes they are Christians because of their upbringing.

I don't know them because they happened in the first five centuries of the Church when Apokatastasis was the predominant theme of God's mercy. The Church grew by leaps and bounds as the lovely message of God's forgiving and accepting love was accepted by millions. The message of God's anger, judgment, and took seed with Augustine and from there really took off in the Western Church.

So.......I don't know them and neither do you. But let's turn this around? How well is the message of God's damnation, hatred, and anger towards people doing in turning the world to Christ? Seems that it is not doing very well in our country, where for the first time, according to a recent poll, by percentage, atheists outnumber believers.

 

[Light of the East]

God is a God of perfect justice; any punishment that occurs in Hell will fit the crime.

Tell me what sin is worth eternal punishment?

 

[Light of the East]

He had no mercy on Sodom and G.

You obviously do not understand the difference between a temporal chastizement, which is designed to punish sin, and eternal punishment, which is merely sadism.

You also don't know the purpose of destroying Sodom and Gomorrah. It may well have been a mercy to them in several manners: keeping them from going deeper in sin (and thus deeper in punishments), protecting them from the various diseases they were no doubt spreading, and protecting the world from them.

Don't judge God's mercy by your standards of justice and morality.

 

[Light of the East]

He had no mercy on Sodom and G.

Tell me something.....what exactly is it that bothers you about the idea of God actually forgiving all mankind?

 

[FineLinen]

God is a God of perfect justice; any punishment that occurs in Hell will fit the crime.

Dear Risen: Our Father is indeed perfect justice & His perfect justice flows from His perfect love & mercy.

Unspoken Sermons by George MacDonald: Justice

 

[FineLinen]

I don't know them because they happened in the first five centuries of the Church when Apokatastasis was the predominant theme of God's mercy. The Church grew by leaps and bounds as the lovely message of God's forgiving and accepting love was accepted by millions. The message of God's anger, judgment, and took seed with Augustine and from there really took off in the Western Church.

So.......I don't know them and neither do you. But let's turn this around? How well is the message of God's damnation, hatred, and anger towards people doing in turning the world to Christ? Seems that it is not doing very well in our country, where for the first time, according to a recent poll, by percentage, atheists outnumber believers.

Dear Light: The ghastly dogma of endless damnation has caused individuals to go insane. Rather than turn the world to the Lord Jesus Christ, it has driven countless numbers far away from Him who is abundant Life.

Any individual who comes to the Master must come by way of His majestic call, not by fear.

Sad news to report

1. To receive Him it must be granted to you. It does not come by the will of the flesh, nor the will of man.
   
   
2. The Lord must open your heart (like Lydia).
   
   
3. No man can come to Jesus Christ “it is granted of My Father.”
   
   
4. The foundation for being a disciple of Jesus Christ,

You did not choose Me, I chose you.

 

[FineLinen]

What Love Is All About

It was a busy morning, approximately 8:30 am, when an elderly gentleman, in his 80’s arrived to have stitches removed from his thumb. He stated that he was in a hurry and that he had an appointment at 9:00 am. I took his vital signs, and had him take a seat, knowing it would be over an hour before someone would be able to see him. I saw him looking at his watch and decided, since I was not busy with another patient, I would evaluate his wound.

On exam it was well healed, so I talked to one of the doctors, got the needed supplies to remove his sutures and redressed his wound. While taking care of him, we began to engage in conversation. I asked him if he had a doctor’s appointment this morning, as he was in such a hurry. The gentleman told me no, that he needed to go to the nursing home to eat breakfast with his wife. I then inquired as to her health. He told me that she had been there for awhile and was a victim of Alzheimer’s Disease.

As we talked and I finished dressing his wound, I asked if she would be worried if he was a bit late. He replied that she no longer knew who he was, and hadn’t recognized him in five years. I was surprised, and asked him, “And you still go every morning, even though she doesn’t know who you are?” He smiled and patted my hand and said,

"She doesn’t know me, but I still know who she is."

 

[Saint Steven]

He doesn’t call those who hate Him his own.

Does God require us to love those who hate us? Why wouldn't he be held to the same standard of love?

Matthew 5:46-48
If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[HehasRisen]

Tell me what sin is worth eternal punishment?

All sin is worthy of separation from God.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 1:32

“They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

“He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

“Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Matthew 25:44-46