Questions About Hell

[Dorothy Mae]

How do you mean "leaves human pride fully intact"?

No one has to confess and repent of sin they actually commit but instead confess the general bad state of everyone. They can admit they are not perfect without disturbing pride. (Actually pride likes this cause it all the appearance of humility without actually admitting any particular flaws.) They confess, as it were, Adams sin.

As I see it Paul is talking about spiritual death.

physical death is apparent to everyone and more powerful.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy we can't even imagine not existing. We can't desire what we can't know.

You can call it eternal sleep if you like. They all assume and hope eternal sleep awaits them. Not a one-off them fear that. Hence it’s no punishment at all.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dear Josheb: Can you explain how being separated by any being from their Creator is in union with ta pante?

God is the Source, Guide & Goal of ta pante

This isn’t an answer but it occurred to me that those who reject God also WANT to be separated from Him. Again the description of the punishment fulfills their hopes.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I guess your responses are mainly visceral. Hard to discuss on a site with someone who doesn’t use words. I can see why you chose the name you did.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jer 18:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from the LORD, saying,
Jer 18:2 Arise, and go down to the potter's house, and there I will cause thee to hear my words.
Jer 18:3 Then I went down to the potter's house, and, behold, he wrought a work on the wheels.
Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

There, that should answer your question about what he has done, how he operates, and what he is doing.

The amazing thing is I just read that passage last night. Read on. In the chapter He says that if He intends to do good to a man who starts doing evil, he’ll change his mind and not do the good.

While the clay is passive, the man
is not. God rewards us according to our deeds unless one repents of the evil one did, which is technically also a deed, if one reads all of the chapter. That is how he operates.

 

[zoidar]

No one has to confess and repent of sin they actually commit but instead confess the general bad state of everyone. They can admit they are not perfect without disturbing pride. (Actually pride likes this cause it all the appearance of humility without actually admitting any particular flaws.) They confess, as it were, Adams sin.

Everyone confesses and repents of their own sins. Everyone has to take responsibilty for their own sins. It sounds like you have an idea how things should be if Adam is the reason for our fallen nature which doesn't fit common church teaching.

 

[WebersHome]

.
The Bible says eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burning for burning, bone for bone, and life for life. Well; what about serial killers? They have but one life to forfeit for their murders. How are they supposed to satisfy justice for the balance of their victims?

One solution to the problem would be to resurrect and put to death serial killers as many times as it takes to pay for the lives they took. But unfortunately down at the end there is only one resurrection allotted per person; which means that there are no more deaths following the second death.

So people terminated in the lake of brimstone are stuck; they're never coming back from there having used up their one allotted resurrection to stand trial at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. This applies not only serial killers but everybody else in the lake too.
_

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Everyone confesses and repents of their own sins.

One poster thought is not a part of church life cause Paul didn’t say to do so. Apparently it isn’t. Is it practiced in your church? How? Ever heard a gospel presentation? The Ran road? Personal real sin is left out. No one is expectedto be “cut to the heart.”

Everyone has to take responsibilty for their own sins.

Not among Christians today. They blame Adams sin.

It sounds like you have an idea how things should be if Adam is the reason for our fallen nature which doesn't fit common church teaching.

They all blame Adam. I know how it would be if they didn’t.

 

[FineLinen]

.
The Bible says eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burning for burning, bone for bone, and life for life. Well; what about serial killers? They have but one life to forfeit for their murders. How are they supposed to satisfy justice for the balance of their victims?

One solution to the problem would be to resurrect and put to death serial killers as many times as it takes to pay for the lives they took. But unfortunately down at the end there is only one resurrection allotted per person; which means that there are no more deaths following the second death.

So people terminated in the lake of brimstone are stuck; they're never coming back from there having used up their one allotted resurrection to stand trial at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. This applies not only serial killers but everybody else in the lake too.
_

Dear Weber: That is exciting information! I trust you are not stuck with using up all your forgiveness credits of 490.

For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

.
The Bible says eye for eye, tooth for tooth, burning for burning, bone for bone, and life for life. Well; what about serial killers? They have but one life to forfeit for their murders. How are they supposed to satisfy justice for the balance of their victims?

The law was given to give a limit to punishment in human law. They didn’t have serial killers.

So people terminated in the lake of brimstone are stuck; they're never coming back from there having used up their one allotted resurrection to stand trial at the great white throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. This applies not only serial killers but everybody else in the lake too.
_

Theyve made themselves into creatures unfit for anywhere else having cared for themselves. They didn’t want God and he’s everywhere in Heaven. They’d hate it. So there’s only one place left.

 

[zoidar]

One poster thought is not a part of church life cause Paul didn’t say to do so. Apparently it isn’t. Is it practiced in your church? How? Ever heard a gospel presentation? The Ran road? Personal real sin is left out. No one is expectedto be “cut to the heart.”
Not among Christians today. They blame Adams sin.
They all blame Adam. I know how it would be if they didn’t.

I would agree repentance should be preached more strongly.

 

[FineLinen]

I would agree repentance should be preached more strongly.

Dear Zoidar: Repentance does not begin with us. Repentance is "granted". We can preach our wee brains out, but alas, the Lord must grant repentance to the Gentiles and every last one He draws to the Prince & Saviour of all mankind, the Lord Lesous.

1. If men are totally depraved by nature, must not children be so likewise?
2. If children be totally depraved, is it true, that "of such is the kingdom of heaven?" -- (Mark 10:14)
3. Men are to be washed from their sins. If they are totally depraved, what is there to wash?
4. If evil men and seducers "wax worse and worse," (2 Tim. 3:13), can they be totally depraved at first?
5. If human reason be "carnal and delusive," why did Jehovah say, "come now and let us REASON together?" -- (Isa. 1:18)
6. If reason be delusive, why should some folks reason against the use of reason?
7. Can an effect exist without a cause sufficiently powerful to produce it?
8. If "we love God because he first loved us," is it true that we must first love HIM before He will love us?
9. If "we love God because he first loved us," is it not plain that He loved US when we did not love HIM?
10. If God loved US when we did not love HIM, is not our love to Him the EFFECT (and not the CAUSE) of His love to US?
11. Was it consistent with divine justice, to love us, when we did not love Him?
12. If God once loved us, will not that love eternally continue?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dear Zoidar: Repentance does not begin with us. Repentance is "granted". We can preach our wee brains out, but alas, the Lord must grant repentance to the Gentiles and every last one He draws to the Prince & Saviour of all mankind, the Lord Lesous.

So it’s the Lord’s fault many are not saved? He failed to grant them repentance? And then condemns them when was really his failure????

I don’t believe a word of it.

1. If men are totally depraved by nature, must not children be so likewise?
2. If children be totally depraved, is it true, that "of such is the kingdom of heaven?" -- (Mark 10:14)
3. Men are to be washed from their sins. If they are totally depraved, what is there to wash?
4. If evil men and seducers "wax worse and worse," (2 Tim. 3:13), can they be totally depraved at first?
5. If human reason be "carnal and delusive," why did Jehovah say, "come now and let us REASON together?" -- (Isa. 1:18)
6. If reason be delusive, why should some folks reason against the use of reason?
7. Can an effect exist without a cause sufficiently powerful to produce it?
8. If "we love God because he first loved us," is it true that we must first love HIM before He will love us?
9. If "we love God because he first loved us," is it not plain that He loved US when we did not love HIM?
10. If God loved US when we did not love HIM, is not our love to Him the EFFECT (and not the CAUSE) of His love to US?
11. Was it consistent with divine justice, to love us, when we did not love Him?
12. If God once loved us, will not that love eternally continue?

Too long to read and answer.

 

[Light of the East]

Maybe I misunderstood then. Who thinks God is unjust in any way (or at least who said God is unjust?)

When God gives us moral law to follow, is He not giving us what He is and would do Himself? It's like the response I see from time to time (a good response) which asks this question: "If God commands us to forgive our enemies, yet is unwilling to do it Himself by actively throwing them into hell, is He asking us to be better than He is?"

Is the moral law of God reflective of God's character? If so, then lex talionis applies to God's justice as well as ours.

 

[Light of the East]

Yesterday I shared the Gospel. Did you?
And I am just as tired of this demonic doctrine being spread. The OP did not answer my question. Perhaps you will. Why share this doctrine to Christians who already know the Lord and are saved? And what good does it do to share it to the lost who don't care anyway?
This is a BS doctrine, and I will speak out against it every time it is brought up.

Maybe to bring them a real joy in knowing just how deep and good the love of God is. Maybe to give them hope for their lost parents, children, relatives, who have rejected Christ umpteen times.

So you are saying that the saints of the Church are BS?

 

[Light of the East]

Existence is a good of God. I think the damned desire it.

Do they?

Or in the darkness of sin, do they really desire that good which is God alone, but erroneously think that sin is a good.

And if they see Jesus in all His beauty and glory, all His love and power, will they still want that which is false?

 

[Light of the East]

"The current Evangelical Theology involves in its system belief in the deathlessness of sin, the indestructibility of error, and permanence of evil. That though there was a time in the history of the universe when sin in any shape or form did not exist, when no cry of pain or sense of guilt darkened the all-extensive bliss and holiness of creation, yet since sin has once effected an entrance into such a scene, it has come in never to go out again, indestructible, unconquerable, ineradicable, endless. Absolute happiness and sinlessness have forever vanished like the phantom of a dream. The ‘eternal state’ is a universe endlessly finding room for myriads of souls rolling and writhing in the burning agonies of ceaseless flame, eternally sinful, vile and morally hideous. It pictures the 'final perfection' yet to be attained as having room for a vast cesspool of immoral and degraded beings, continually existing in opposition to God." –V. Gelesnoff

I think hellists really need to sit and ponder this. Their eschatology has God creating a world in which He foreknew the entrance of sin, yet creating it anyway with the full knowledge that it would live forever, even despite the fact that it has no real reality. That is what hellism teaches, the victory of Satan over God in managing to condemn billions of souls, in keeping evil and sin alive forever in a place called hell where the wicked, instead of being scourged and changed by an irresistible love, will hate God and curse Him forever.

 

[Light of the East]

It is ultimately God who wills us to choose and make the right choice or choices, etc, but from our perspective or point of view, we must still will ourselves to make or not make the right or wrong choices, etc, from our perspective or point of view, etc, but it was ultimately God who did it all and not us, etc... But and/or because He will "will" us to "will" or not will, etc in the matters we need to, etc, but our own will is still very much involved and very important from our perspective or point of view, etc...

See what you think of this response regarding "free will" and our choices.

God’s Hand & Our Free Will

 

[Light of the East]

Still not answering the question, FL. If " no evangelical fundamentalists can be convinced" why try to convince them?

Could it be that we find describing our loving heavenly Father in behavioral terms which are more akin to a sociopath than love is offensive to us?

 

[Neogaia777]

See what you think of this response regarding "free will" and our choices.

God’s Hand & Our Free Will

I believe "free will" is a "perspective or point of view"...

And as for "The God" "predestining or already have been or already done predestined some for or to hell" (from the very beginning), did you read my posts #161 & #162...?

That the ones He does predestine (or already did predestine from before the beginning) (anyway), the ones that "The God" does predestine for the kind of hell I am talking about there (posts # 161 & 162), are just like "temporary programs or constructs" (only not temporary) (anyway) "temporary programs or constructs" (for the rest of us anyway) (anyway) "temporary programs or constructs" involving "the rest of us not going there" or being there, or staying there, etc, in the end, etc...?

That they were never truly alive, and were never meant to be, etc, and so are not ever, just stay here in these kinds of realities, etc, only existing for what is just a temporary, for the rest of us, kind of temporary (for the rest of us) divine purpose involving the rest of us here, that are going there, etc, or for or with those of us not staying here and that are going "there" or going to heaven, etc, and/but, after that, or beyond that, these former ones, have no further purpose or need (for them) or their purpose is done, except for only further purposes involving further realities that are still like this one here still, that are still existing still, etc, but are separate or are separated from the "other" "ones", etc, but beyond this world and this life, or these kinds of lives, or realities, etc, have no other further purpose or need (for them) (ever), etc, at least, not for where the rest of us are going, etc...

Anyway, did you get any of that...?

God Bless!