Questions about Evidence

[Wryetui]

That makes two of us.


Evidence is anything that dictates to an empiricist what he should believe, or what he should reject.

Good point, thank you. But, why something is true only if you touch it or see it?

 

[AV1611VET]

Good point, thank you. But, why something is true only if you touch it or see it?

Good question.

Empiricists can't see the whole picture.

2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.

Their reality is much more limited.

 

[DogmaHunter]

L's and IPU's are gods, are they?

They are mythical creatures. Close enough.
How about Allah in the Quran? Or any other gods in any other book that you don't happen to buy into?

See, that's the thing... every argument you give to support your own belief can be used, completely unchanged, to support any other (mutually exclusive) belief.

Which renders the arguments to be completely meaningless.

 

[AV1611VET]

How about Allah in the Quran?

I don't know.

I haven't read the Quran.

As I understand it, Allah is the primary deity of the Quraysh tribe, from which Mohammad came from.

Its symbol was a star and crescent moon.

See, that's the thing... every argument you give to support your own belief can be used, completely unchanged, to support any other (mutually exclusive) belief.

We believe that the completion of the Scriptures in AD 96 put an end to divine prophets.

Thus anyone such as Mohammad or Joseph Smith claiming to be a prophet of God is doctrinally dismissed.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I don't know.

I haven't read the Quran.

As I understand it, Allah is the primary deity of the Quraysh tribe, from which Mohammad came from.

Its symbol was a star and crescent moon.

We believe that the completion of the Scriptures in AD 96 put an end to divine prophets.
Thus anyone such as Mohammad or Joseph Smith claiming to be a prophet of God is doctrinally dismissed.

Indeed. Which is my entire point. "you believe that...."
And you believe because "you believe" because "you believe" because....

You just want to believe.

 

[AV1611VET]

Indeed. Which is my entire point. "you believe that...."
And you believe because "you believe" because "you believe" because....

You just want to believe.

It's belief that got me saved in the first place.

Without it, I would be on my way to Hell.

 

[DogmaHunter]

It's belief that got me saved in the first place.
Without it, I would be on my way to Hell.

You being in need of any saving at all is part of your belief.

Typical snake oil salesman.
First, the religion requires you to believe that you are sick. It never gives any evidence of this illness - it just asserts it and you just have to believe it.

Then, it conveniently provides the "only" cure - which you also just need to believe.

Straight from the con-man's handbook on how to make money off off people's gullibility...

 

[Wryetui]

You being in need of any saving at all is part of your belief.

Typical snake oil salesman.
First, the religion requires you to believe that you are sick. It never gives any evidence of this illness - it just asserts it and you just have to believe it.

Then, it conveniently provides the "only" cure - which you also just need to believe.

Straight from the con-man's handbook on how to make money off off people's gullibility...

So what's your problem with our belief? Why are you here if you don't like it or you think we are pathethic for our beliefs? We are struggling to reach Heaven, not you. Why would you spend so much time fighting a God that doesn't exist for you?

I'm a christian and no one makes money because of my beliefs, no one is in advantage for it.

 

[DogmaHunter]

So what's your problem with our belief?

I don't have any particular problem with anyone's beliefs - as long as it doesn't affect me.
That doesn't exclude me fom having an opinion about said beliefs.

Why are you here if you don't like it or you think we are pathethic for our beliefs?

I like to discuss things with people who see things differently then I do. It's entertaining and challenging.
On occasion, I also get interesting discussions out of it.
On other occasions, I even get to learn something.

Not to mention that I don't need to explain myself to you.

We are struggling to reach Heaven, not you. Why would you spend so much time fighting a God that doesn't exist for you?

I'm not fighting entities I don't even believe exist.
If I'm fighting at all, I'ld say that I'm trying to stick up for reason and rationality while fighting against dogmatic doctrines and gullibility or other irrational thought patterns.

Can I?

I'm a christian and no one makes money because of my beliefs, no one is in advantage for it.

Right... I guess the pope and priests paid for the Vatican, the churches, the missionaries, the evangelical tv shows, the many billboards, etc etc.

And people like Ken Ham earned their money by doing an honest man's job to pay for his ridiculous "creation museum" and the Hovinds have gotten rich by making an actual contribution to the economy. O, wait.....


Having said that: my point was not that the church exists to steal money from their "flock" (eventhough they do...). The "money" part of my post was part of the analogy of the snake oil salesman.

The point was about the principle of "make someone believe they are sick and then conveniently offer the only cure".

You can't possibly deny that this principle applies perfectly to christianity...
It's according to christianity that you need any saving at all.
And according to christianity, ONLY christianity can provide that.

How is that not exactly the same?

 

[florida2]

Scientists, on the other hand, claiming to be of an elite culture called the "wise men," are actually blind.

I'm not sure what has happened in your life to make you so hateful towards scientists and think they are some sort of elite. They're just ordinary people doing a job.

Scientists are the ones who spend their time trying to figure out how certain aspects of the universe work, scratching their heads to try and figure out problems and usually end up producing knowledge of technology to improve civilisation. That's all.

 

[AV1611VET]

Scientists are the ones who spend their time trying to figure out how certain aspects of the universe work, scratching their heads to try and figure out problems and usually end up producing knowledge of technology to improve civilisation.

Nowadays, for some, it comes with a price.

Their soul.

 

[Smidlee]

Scientist are just another name for human. It's totally human to try to figure out how things work and to try to find meaning behind everything in life.
Scientist is mostly used to imply that one group of people are smarter than others so they can have a monopoly on knowledge. I'm not dismissing the fact each person has a field they are good at.

 

[Loudmouth]

Scientist are just another name for human. It's totally human to try to figure out how things work and to try to find meaning behind everything in life.
Scientist is mostly used to imply one group of people are smarter than others so they can have a monopoly of knowledge.

It's not that hard to look intelligent when you are being compared to creationists.

 

[AV1611VET]

Scientist are just another name for human. It's totally human to try to figure out how things work and to try to find meaning behind everything in life.
Scientist is mostly used to imply that one group of people are smarter than others so they can have a monopoly on knowledge. I'm not dismissing the fact each person has a field they are good at.

Don't they dictate industry standards though?

Right down to rewriting the dictionary after rigging a vote on issues?

They claim they follow "consensus of opinion," but the Pluto issue shows they will find other means of pushing their agenda if they have to.

 

[Loudmouth]

Don't they dictate industry standards though?

Right down to rewriting the dictionary after rigging a vote on issues?

They claim they follow "consensus of opinion," but the Pluto issue shows they will find other means of pushing their agenda if they have to.

Unfortunately, AV doesn't like the agenda where scientists want to use a more accurate model of the solar system.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's not that hard to look intelligent when you are being compared to creationists.

Intelligence may fool us, but try to get past a creationist looking wise.

 

[Loudmouth]

Intelligence may fool us, but try to get past a creationist looking wise.

Happens every minute around here.

 

[Smidlee]

Don't they dictate industry standards though?

Right down to rewriting the dictionary after rigging a vote on issues?

They claim they follow "consensus of opinion," but the Pluto issue shows they will find other means of pushing their agenda if they have to.

They no doubt stack the deck to make themselves look more intelligent that they really are. Ex: Albert Einstein according to history was a dead beat dad. Then go read what some says about the Duggars family.

 

[Loudmouth]

They no doubt stack the deck to make themselves look more intelligent that they really are. Ex: Albert Einstein according to history was a dead beat dad.

I think Smidlee is jelly.

 

[AV1611VET]

Unfortunately, AV doesn't like the agenda where scientists want to use a more accurate model of the solar system.

If that was true, why did they have to rig the vote?

Did they know ahead of time not to invite planetary scientists?