Questions about Christianity

[postmortemjoe]

I posted some of these in other threads, but I figured a dedicated thread would be best. I do ask that the answer is backed up with proof that is not a quote from the Bible as it does not stand up as evidence of anything with its many translations, edits, and other tomfoolery. So on to the questions!

1) God created Satan. He knew that Satan would betray him. Why didn't he just not create Satan? If creating Satan was so important (I don't know why it would be) why didn't he just destroy him after he was created instead of wreaking havoc on mankind for centuries upon centuries?

2) Why do good things happen to bad people? Is god rewarding them for doing bad things?

3) Can someone explain the godhead? Is it three gods in one, or one in three parts? Either way, doesn't that make Christianity a polytheistic religion?

4) Why is it ok for Abraham to kill his son, but people were upset that Casey Anthony didn't go to jail for killing her daughter?

5) Why is war and suffering so prevalent in the book and history of a "peaceful" religion?

6) Why is it that Christians feel the need to insert religion as the only alternative when they assume science has failed?

BONUS: Why is the icon for atheist on this site a head with a brain? Is that implying that Christians don't think?

<coffee talk lady>Discuss amongst yourselves </coffee talk lady>

 

[PaladinValer]

1) God created Satan. He knew that Satan would betray him. Why didn't he just not create Satan? If creating Satan was so important (I don't know why it would be) why didn't he just destroy him after he was created instead of wreaking havoc on mankind for centuries upon centuries?

The angels have the ability to make choices just like us. He creates out of love, not out of hate or deception (a theme of Gnosticism).

If you've ever read J. R. R. Tolkien's The Silmarillion, the dark vala Melkor, during the Great Music, sings his own tune which seemingly warps the Music. However, under the main direction of Manwe, who preceived Eru Illuvatar's (God, in all respects) mind best in the Music, not only continued the Music, but even brought in those elements from Melkor's that only ended up making the Music more glorious.

It was not to condone Melkor's evil, but to counter it and make it a part of the Theme that would end right, not wrong (which it did).

The same applies here.

2) Why do good things happen to bad people? Is god rewarding them for doing bad things?

Choice. None of which is God's fault I might add. We are not robots. And while God is still very much active in the world and calls on all things to do right and good, it is each individual thing's choice to follow it.

3) Can someone explain the godhead? Is it three gods in one, or one in three parts? Either way, doesn't that make Christianity a polytheistic religion?

The Father is God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God

The Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit
The Son is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son

There is only One God

God is Three distinct Persons equally and eternally of the Same One Substance/Essence.

It is important to realize that Persons in Greek is "hypostasis," which has a slightly different meaning of "person" than we have today. A "hypostasis" truly is a thing; a chair is a hypostasis, a blade of glass is a hypostasis, a person is a hypostasis. However, it must be known that the concept of will that we have associated with "person" wasn't shared back then. Thus, in the Three Hypostases of the Triune God, there is not Three Wills but only One Will.

4) Why is it ok for Abraham to kill his son, but people were upset that Casey Anthony didn't go to jail for killing her daughter?

Abraham did not kill Isaac.

Furthermore, we have no clue whether Casey Anthony truly killed her daughter. The evidence was not conclusive enough according to the best justice system (or one of the best) in the world, and we need to take that into account. The verdict is always "not guilty," which does not necessarily mean "innocenet" OR "truly guilty but can't prove it."

5) Why is war and suffering so prevalent in the book and history of a "peaceful" religion?

Find me a perfect Jew. Find me a perfect Hindu. Find me a perfect Atheist. You can't. Nor will you find a perfect Christian.

Hypocrisy is a part of human nature sadly. However, that isn't the religion's fault. I don't blame Islam for 9/11 and I don't blame Shinto for World War II's "Pleasure Women."

6) Why is it that Christians feel the need to insert religion as the only alternative when they assume science has failed?

Hasty Generalization Fallacy. Look in the Origins forum here in the Christian Only section, and you'll see that Christianity does not automatically teach evolution, the Big Bang Theory, etc, to be wrong.

BONUS: Why is the icon for atheist on this site a head with a brain? Is that implying that Christians don't think?

In all honestly? I seem to remember that when that icon was created, the Atheists were the ones to pick it. However, I may be wrong.

Personally, I think it should be the symbol used by the American Atheists, as I think the "black brain" in the gray head seems to me a bid rude, as if Atheists are supposedly dumb (I've met some dumb ones, true, but it isn't typical, especially given the great Atheistic minds there have been in history who have made such great and amazing contributions to society).

 

[postmortemjoe]

The angels have the ability to make choices just like us. He creates out of love, not out of hate or deception (a theme of Gnosticism).

If you've ever read J. R. R. Tolkien's The Silmarillion, the dark vala Melkor, during the Great Music, sings his own tune which seemingly warps the Music. However, under the main direction of Manwe, who preceived Eru Illuvatar's (God, in all respects) mind best in the Music, not only continued the Music, but even brought in those elements from Melkor's that only ended up making the Music more glorious.

It was not to condone Melkor's evil, but to counter it and make it a part of the Theme that would end right, not wrong (which it did).

The same applies here.

Explaining god and satan's relationship by relating it to a J. R. R. Tolkien book just made it even more confusing.

Choice. None of which is God's fault I might add. We are not robots. And while God is still very much active in the world and calls on all things to do right and good, it is each individual thing's choice to follow it.

But god is supposed to be in charge? So everything is to his blame or his credit because it happened on his watch. Unless it's not his fault, because he's not in control.

The Father is God
The Son is God
The Holy Spirit is God

The Father is not the Son nor the Holy Spirit
The Son is not the Father nor the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is not the Father nor the Son

There is only One God

So then according to that logic, god the father created a son, which was also him, which he had killed to prove to himself that humanity should be forgiven for doing wrong???

Abraham did not kill Isaac.

Furthermore, we have no clue whether Casey Anthony truly killed her daughter. The evidence was not conclusive enough according to the best justice system (or one of the best) in the world, and we need to take that into account. The verdict is always "not guilty," which does not necessarily mean "innocenet" OR "truly guilty but can't prove it."

Yeah because god supposedly stopped him at the last second. Either way, god issued the order in the first place, he should be held accountable.

Find me a perfect Jew. Find me a perfect Hindu. Find me a perfect Atheist. You can't. Nor will you find a perfect Christian.

Hypocrisy is a part of human nature sadly. However, that isn't the religion's fault. I don't blame Islam for 9/11 and I don't blame Shinto for World War II's "Pleasure Women."

It is religion's fault. Islam is a sworn enemy of anyone who does not believe the Muslim faith. Look it up. And we all remember the story of Joshua in Jericho.

Hasty Generalization Fallacy. Look in the Origins forum here in the Christian Only section, and you'll see that Christianity does not automatically teach evolution, the Big Bang Theory, etc, to be wrong.

I'll take it!

 

[Emmy]

Dear postmortemjoe. God never created Satan. Strong` s Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible will tell you that Satan`s origin is unknown, and Evil can be found whereever the Love and Light of God is missing. We live in an imperfect world and bad things happen to good and bad people alike. There is only One God: God-Father, God-Son, and God-Holy-Spirit. God is Spirit, Holy Spirit, and God-Father made us in His image, we are the only beings in this Universe who can think and reason. God-Son came to Earth to save Mankind, born by Mary a chosen Virgin, to become our Saviour. He died that we might live, and He reconciled us to God. God-Holy-Spirit is in the world now, to carry on the work of saving Mankind, which Jesus had started. Three parts of God`s Spirit to redeem Mankind, BUT ONLY ONE GREAT GOD. The Bible will tell you more in detail, joe. If you like answers to the other questions, let me know. I do not like writing long answers. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[postmortemjoe]

Dear postmortemjoe. God never created Satan. Strong` s Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible will tell you that Satan`s origin is unknown, and Evil can be found whereever the Love and Light of God is missing.

Isn't Satan one of god's fallen angels? So he would have to have created him. And if he didn't, so that means god is powerless against evil, which he obviously can't control. So then, what's the purpose of a god?

 

[PaladinValer]

Explaining god and satan's relationship by relating it to a J. R. R. Tolkien book just made it even more confusing.

The point was that Satan, like any other being, has free will. He chose to work evil instead of God. God threw him out of His heavenly kingdom for it, but He also made a way to use the Devil a tool for His own glory.

In other words, the Devil is unwittingly helping God. Yes, there is still demonic possessions, yes there is still temptation (rarely truly ever the Devil's own doing; most of the time we blame him for crap we do ourselves), but God instead gets in the way: He makes there be ways so that He is the cure. Drive the demons out; restore faith...

But god is supposed to be in charge? So everything is to his blame or his credit because it happened on his watch. Unless it's not his fault, because he's not in control.

Is it a 50 year old parent's fault that his or her 21 year old son got a speeding ticket? After all, their son still lives at home, and the parents are in charge.

Humanity was given two great gifts beyond fellow animals: outstanding intelligence (not that other species of animals are dumb; science shows otherwise, but we are the only species with our level of intellect as we know), but also spirit, or an advanced way to tell right from wrong (again, there is the same in other species to be sure, but not to our level) and a relationship with God. No other species has a spirit; only we do (again, as far as we know; I'm certain beings like us in other worlds have one too).

God is not at fault for His creations. If I were to murder someone, it isn't my mother's or father's fault. And while God knows the future, it is equally true that we don't. How do we know the end? Who are we to judge anyone's future? Tarot cards are a fraud (I should know; I used to "read" them...and yes, I knew it was a load at the time; fun though!). For I knew, the kid who used to be an absolute jerk in school might grow up to be a compassionate person (and that did happen to many I knew). Should I at that time pass judgment to God? He knew they'd get it in the end, but I didn't.

See how easy it is to blame God for nothing?

So then according to that logic, god the father created a son, which was also him, which he had killed to prove to himself that humanity should be forgiven for doing wrong???

The Son is not created. Again, God is eternal, which means He had no beginning and no end. Since the Son is God, then He is eternal like the Father and the Holy Spirit are.

Also again, neither "Person" (or "Hypostasis") is the other. The Father and the Son are One in Substance and have the same Will, but they are not the same Person.

God wanted to reconcile the world to Himself. He volunteered to send the Second Person to be Incarnate. There is no ordering around.

Yeah because god supposedly stopped him at the last second. Either way, god issued the order in the first place, he should be held accountable.

You missed the point of the story. The story is about faithfulness, not about murder. God was never going to allow Abraham to kill his own son; a son that He had promised to Abraham earlier who would make him to be the ancestor of a whole nation of people. God wanted to see if Abraham truly have faith in Him to give what He promised. Abraham's willingness showed God that, if not this son, another. God knew this, and so stopped Abraham; after all, was it not He would told Cain how terrible his sin was for murdering his brother?

God wasn't seeing whether Abraham would "do what he said," but whether Abraham had faith in the promise He made to him. Isaac was never in jeopardy.

I might add that you look what happened next. Instead, an animal is offered instead in thanksgiving. This is a prefiguring of Christ's sacrifice; even back then, God's plan was being made known.

It is religion's fault. Islam is a sworn enemy of anyone who does not believe the Muslim faith. Look it up. And we all remember the story of Joshua in Jericho.

I actually know Islam well. It is a far more diverse religion than people think it is, with a myriad of theological schools of thought and a very rich history. There is a much debate in Islam about interpreting the Qur'an as there is in Christianity in interpreting the Holy Bible. Not to mention the influence of Tradition, which is, yes, also debated heavily in Islam.

In addition, I'm also a historian. The idea that Islam spread only "by the sword" is hogwash. Most of the time, it spread through trading and missionaries who were not armed (a good example is how it originally arrived in the Subcontinent of India; Muslim missionaries were arrive, adopt the dress, cuisine, and lifestyles [so long as they weren't contrary to Islam] of the locals and then slowly taught their religion using as much logic as St. Justin the Martyr would have used). Furthermore, while peoples who were Muslims did conquer other areas, religion often had nothing to do with it. Non-Muslims were allowed freedom of religion and were usually allowed private jurisdiction in their own matters. As for the tax they had to pay, it wasn't always enforced and sometimes, it was ruled as contrary to Islam!

A lot of terrible things have been done in the name of religion: Christianity, Islam, Buddhism (yep; learn about Tibet sometime!), and Atheism have all had bloody histories. However, those who perpetrated those atrocities were not following the spirit of the religions they "claimed" to adhere to. I don't blame Atheism for Lenin or Chairman Mao. I don't blame Shinto for Japanese aggression before and during World War II. I don't blame Hinduism for Gandhi's assassination.

 

[Hentenza]

Thread moved from GT to Exploring Christianity

 

[LaSpino3]

Postmortenjoe, I will answer your first 2 questions.

1. You asked, "God created Satan. He knew that Satan would betray him. Why didn't he just not create Satan? If creating Satan was so important (I don't know why it would be) why didn't he just destroy him after he was created instead of wreaking havoc on mankind for centuries upon centuries?"

Phil replies, "Your question is incorrect. God did not create Satan, He created Lucifer. Lucifer means "Bright star, or the morning star. A splendid star." Biblical names are very descriptive of the persons nature and character.

Now, today, he is said to be without any light. Now he lives in spiritual darkness, now he is known as,

Satan, meaning, "Adversary," or, the Adversary of God. This is a condition he created for himself. In Hebrew its the proper name for the devil, the prince of the fallen angels, note, "Fallen angels." He is the tempter of men. You can examine the verses listed below for yourself.

Matt.4:10, 12:26. Mark 4:15. Luke 10:18. John 13:27. Acts 26:18. So Heb. "Satan," Sept. 1 Chro.21:1. Job 1:6. As present in men tempting them to evil, Matt.16:23. Mark 8:33, Luke 22:3. Acts 5:3. Others here refer it directly to Peter in the sense of adversary; as Sept for Heb. "Adversary," 1 K.11:14-23-25. Comp. 2 Sam.19:22, where Sept. "Adversaries."

Conclusion, Lucifer was created to serve his Creator. Apparently all of God's creatures are created with a free will. God wants us to love Him with all our hearts, and not for what he can do for us. What happened in heaven exactly no-one knows. But Isaiah gives us a few clues.

Isa.1412, seems to give the indication of a power play on Lucifer's part to lift himself above the throne of His God. Pride appears to have been his weakness. His sin? He left his place in heaven. In other words he abandoned ship. He went out to make his own creation, by changing God's creation. One other conclusion that I have drawn, there is no repentance for a fallen angel.

And God said, "Let the test begin satan, lets see what you have." Earth is the testing ground.


2) You asked, "Why do good things happen to bad people? Is God rewarding them for doing bad things?"

Phil replies, "What?" Hitler took poison, blew his own brains out, and then was burned to ashes, as have others who fell in love with money, material things, pleasures, and power.

But I know what you mean. Your talking about financial, material, physical, and good educations. Bad people so appear to have everything, they not believing in God.

But lets look at the end results. Their rewards are earthly. Many are unhappy, broken marriages, financial set-backs, poor health, etc. And not all poor, sickly are God fearing either.

So lets weigh the two. Our choices, 70 -80 years of health, wealth, and worldly accomplishments. Freedom from God. Compared to, eternal life with Jesus Christ. Your choice, my choice, I have walked the road of the later.

Phil LaSpino

 

[elopez]

I posted some of these in other threads, but I figured a dedicated thread would be best. I do ask that the answer is backed up with proof that is not a quote from the Bible as it does not stand up as evidence of anything with its many translations, edits, and other tomfoolery. So on to the questions!

I'm only going to respond to a few of your questions as for now. First though, if you're asking for proof in the most strictest sense you are not going to get it. What you will get is responses, and those responses will mainly be based on the Bible. Thus, that you request one not use the Bible as support for their response is quite inane, even being that there are various translations as there are only slight variations that do no affect any article of faith. Do you even know how the translation process works for that matter?

2) Why do good things happen to bad people? Is god rewarding them for doing bad things?

There is no inherent reasonable answer as to why. Even if there is we could not know it as we would be ignorant of all the variables in order to understand why. So asking why is rather pointless and instead of torturing yourself over it I believe we should just drop the question of why and begin to understand how to move one.

The only thing we can say for sure is that God does not reward bad deeds.

3) Can someone explain the godhead? Is it three gods in one, or one in three parts? Either way, doesn't that make Christianity a polytheistic religion?

The Trinity consists of one God existent in three distinct persons. Not three goods in one or anything like that. Polytheism states that there are multiple gods that exist, while the Trinity states one God exists. So no, Christianity is not polytheistic as a result of the Godhead, unless of course you wish to redefine either the Trinity or polytheism which only arises as the fallacy of the no true Scotsman.

6) Why is it that Christians feel the need to insert religion as the only alternative when they assume science has failed?

Why is that you would assume Christians view science as a failure? Yes that may be the more prevalent view among conservatives but it is not the the universal view of Christianity. A lot of Christians are very open to science and the conclusions that follow.

 

[drich0150]

I posted some of these in other threads, but I figured a dedicated thread would be best. I do ask that the answer is backed up with proof that is not a quote from the Bible as it does not stand up as evidence of anything with its many translations, edits, and other tomfoolery. So on to the questions!

You asked biblically based questions (how else could you know anything about God, Satan and so fourth) but deny the bible as a credible reference to answer the questions derived from it.

If "tom foolery" is not your goal, then please list your source material that does not include the bible or a religious establishment based on it, that supports the questions you have asked.

If you can not, then know your questions are loosely based on a biblical foundation, and as such will be answered from the bible unless you can prove you have knowledge of Christianity outside of scripture, that you have based your questions on.

1) God created Satan. He knew that Satan would betray him.

Why do you believe Satan's actions were a betrayal?

Why didn't he just not create Satan?

Satan like the rest of creation serves a purpose.

If creating Satan was so important (I don't know why it would be)

Then ask.

why didn't he just destroy him after he was created instead of wreaking havoc on mankind for centuries upon centuries?

What makes you think what Satan is doing is not apart of God's plan? Why do you think Satan is wreaking Havoc?

2) Why do good things happen to bad people?

Because there are literally no "good people." we are all members of a fallen world, and as such none are "good." Only God is "Good."

Is god rewarding them for doing bad things?

What makes you think God rewards people for doing "bad things" in this way? (Book, chapter, and verse?)

3) Can someone explain the godhead? Is it three gods in one, or one in three parts? Either way, doesn't that make Christianity a polytheistic religion?

God is a title and not a name. Their is God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Their is only one God, but in three distance personages. Like we only have one President, but many men have held the office.

4) Why is it OK for Abraham to kill his son, but people were upset that Casey Anthony didn't go to jail for killing her daughter?

Do you have Book Chapter and Verse that states that Abraham Killed his son?
Do you have Proof that Casey Killed her daughter?

5) Why is war and suffering so prevalent in the book and history of a "peaceful" religion?

Do you have examples? (Book Chapter and Verse please)

6) Why is it that Christians feel the need to insert religion as the only alternative when they assume science has failed?

Not sure what you mean here.. You are aware that Christianity pre-dates "science" do you not?

BONUS: Why is the icon for atheist on this site a head with a brain? Is that implying that Christians don't think?

Actually it only shows half a brain... I bet you wish you thought about that a little more before posting a 1/2 cocked thought.. oh but wait your efforts are consistent with "our" assessment of your "faith."

 

[Stephen Kendall]

I posted some of these in other threads, but I figured a dedicated thread would be best. I do ask that the answer is backed up with proof that is not a quote from the Bible as it does not stand up as evidence of anything with its many translations, edits, and other tomfoolery. So on to the questions!

1) God created Satan. He knew that Satan would betray him. Why didn't he just not create Satan? If creating Satan was so important (I don't know why it would be) why didn't he just destroy him after he was created instead of wreaking havoc on mankind for centuries upon centuries?

The mixture of what was created was part of our creation of our souls to be with God through believing in Jesus Christ.

2) Why do good things happen to bad people? Is god rewarding them for doing bad things?

How do we know why God does what he does? Evil people lost in their ways are somethings converted and saved.

3) Can someone explain the godhead? Is it three gods in one, or one in three parts? Either way, doesn't that make Christianity a polytheistic religion?

To me, it does! You can join Michael Servitus, Sir Issac Newton, Thomas Jefferson and many others who didn't follow the great crowd of Trinity believers.

4) Why is it ok for Abraham to kill his son, but people were upset that Casey Anthony didn't go to jail for killing her daughter?

Interesting. We know Abraham, but Casey Anthony, we don't know. If God is close to you as was with Abraham, you would trust him. A Christian is to follow the teachings of Christ, his Gospel. This is his pathway to God. What building blocks that we lay, we lay for others to be saved. Following Christ does not go back into the a search for faith, like God may have done to Abraham. Yet he may ask us to go into dangerous situations of persecution for the Gospel's sake.

5) Why is war and suffering so prevalent in the book and history of a "peaceful" religion?

Heaven was at war as well as the earth. Satan was defeated by the blood of the lamb of God, Jesus. We follow with the weapons that he gave us that will defeat evil (love, forgiveness, confessions, humility, compassion, gentleness, the Gospel & blood of the lamb (Jesus)...).

6) Why is it that Christians feel the need to insert religion as the only alternative when they assume science has failed?

Christians are born of God through Christ. They believe in Jesus and his Gospel. The natural balance of things (science) is a form of continual stability for this system of things. Christians know that there is much more. Many have had miracles in their lives, yet many of these had believed in God beforehand. They thanked God for his miracles in their lives, but also for all things, for they believe that all things will glorify Him.

BONUS: Why is the icon for atheist on this site a head with a brain? Is that implying that Christians don't think?

The atheist thinks in the sense of the world's limited human mind, so it is their idol. Christians use what God has given them and glorify Him alone, they have no idols.

I listed my answers in the bold type above. Have a wonderful day.

 

[GrayAngel]

I posted some of these in other threads, but I figured a dedicated thread would be best. I do ask that the answer is backed up with proof that is not a quote from the Bible as it does not stand up as evidence of anything with its many translations, edits, and other tomfoolery. So on to the questions!

You want Christians to prove what they believe without using the main source of their beliefs? Seems a bit silly to ask, don't you think?

1) God created Satan. He knew that Satan would betray him. Why didn't he just not create Satan? If creating Satan was so important (I don't know why it would be) why didn't he just destroy him after he was created instead of wreaking havoc on mankind for centuries upon centuries?

God had a plan for Satan. Contrary to the popular believe that Satan fell outside of God's will, the Bible teaches that Satan is under God's authority. Not that Satan has any desire of serving God, but he has no ability to do anything apart from God's plan. For a classic scenario showing God using Satan for His purposes, see Job.

2) Why do good things happen to bad people? Is god rewarding them for doing bad things?

Judgement does not come until after death. Consider the good things that happen in life the mercies of God on people who won't be able to enjoy them for long. (BTW, according to the Bible, there are no "good people" and none of us deserve good things. But God doesn't smite us every time we mess up.)

3) Can someone explain the godhead? Is it three gods in one, or one in three parts? Either way, doesn't that make Christianity a polytheistic religion?

Is your body made up of only one part, or are you a collection of various pieces working together for the one body? If you have two hands, two feet, and a head, how many people are you?

God is one person, made up of three parts: the Father (the infinite creator and master of all things), the Son (God alive in the finite body of a man), and the Holy Spirit (who does work in and for God's followers).

4) Why is it ok for Abraham to kill his son, but people were upset that Casey Anthony didn't go to jail for killing her daughter?

1) God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. He did NOT ask Casey Anthony to murder her daughter.

2) God never had the intention of Abraham killing his son. Why is it people always forget how this story ends? God stopped Abraham before he could complete the deed, telling him it was only a test.

Years before, God gave Isaac to Abraham to be the heir who would complete God's promise. But before even Isaac was conceived, Abraham had decided to give God a little help in completing his promise, and he had a child with his servant, resulting in Ishmael. I think of this story as God allowing Abraham to redeem himself for this, asking Abraham to trust him, even though God's request didn't make any sense to him.

Because of Abraham's faith, God rewarded him, and Isaac was replaced with a ram as a sacrifice.

5) Why is war and suffering so prevalent in the book and history of a "peaceful" religion?

Why is there war and suffering in today's world? Same reason. It is because man is a broken and sinful creature. We are not, in fact, born as clean slates, but we are born in sin.

Society doesn't just mold the individual: the individual molds society. The fact that there never has been a single human utopia is proof that men have an evil nature, not good or even neutral.

6) Why is it that Christians feel the need to insert religion as the only alternative when they assume science has failed?

Science is the alternative to religion, not vice-versa. Religion came first, and it will last even after science has died (which may be never).

There is no escaping religion. We're all a member of one religion or another, because we all have beliefs, and religion is nothing more than a set of beliefs. Not all are centered on the worship of gods: it's their ideas that make them distinct from one another. Even believing in nothing is a belief.

BONUS: Why is the icon for atheist on this site a head with a brain? Is that implying that Christians don't think?

No. It's symbolizing the focus of atheism. While Christians base their beliefs on faith, Atheists choose to put their entire trust in their own mental capacity to understand the world.

...What do I win?

 

[Stephen Kendall]

You asked biblically based questions (how else could you know anything about God, Satan and so fourth) but deny the bible as a credible reference to answer the questions derived from it.

If "tom foolery" is not your goal, then please list your source material that does not include the bible or a religious establishment based on it, that supports the questions you have asked.

If you can not, then know your questions are loosely based on a biblical foundation, and as such will be answered from the bible unless you can prove you have knowledge of Christianity outside of scripture, that you have based your questions on.

Why do you believe Satan's actions were a betrayal?


Satan like the rest of creation serves a purpose.

Then ask.


What makes you think what Satan is doing is not apart of God's plan? Why do you think Satan is wreaking Havoc?

Because there are literally no "good people." we are all members of a fallen world, and as such none are "good." Only God is "Good."


What makes you think God rewards people for doing "bad things" in this way? (Book, chapter, and verse?)


God is a title and not a name. Their is God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Their is only one God, but in three distance personages. Like we only have one President, but many men have held the office.

Do you have Book Chapter and Verse that states that Abraham Killed his son?
Do you have Proof that Casey Killed her daughter?

Do you have examples? (Book Chapter and Verse please)

Not sure what you mean here.. You are aware that Christianity pre-dates "science" do you not?

Actually it only shows half a brain... I bet you wish you thought about that a little more before posting a 1/2 cocked thought.. oh but wait your efforts are consistent with "our" assessment of your "faith."

Brother (if you are willing to accept me), please be genuine, peaceful and helpful, believing that the one who asked the questions is sincere. We are suppose to forgive many times and love always. Don't let our emotions send us away from Christ. Keep the course. Love you.

 

[drich0150]

Brother (if you are willing to accept me), please be genuine, peaceful and helpful, believing that the one who asked the questions is sincere. We are suppose to forgive many times and love always. Don't let our emotions send us away from Christ. Keep the course. Love you.

I have and remain true and genuine to not only who I am and How I wish to teach, but how I wish to be taught. In that My efforts mirror those of the one seeking guidance. (I am striving to put the same effort into these answers, as the person puts into asking them.)

Paul pioneered this effort. When He was with the Jews He ate as a Jew, He spoke as a Jew and Worshiped as one. When He was with the Romans However, He sought out to speak and eat with them in the ways they were accustomed. Why? Because this flexibility allowed Him to reach a greater audience with stronger effect.

Likewise Here when I speak to a brother in the faith, my word thought and deed will reflect the tome that one such as yourself have come to expect with in my ability to provide it. On the other hand however, when someone comes here and issues challenges about what they think we believe. I simply re-issue those challenges as closely to the way they were issued for two reasons. One so that they may see the short and abrupt manner in which they approach those who do not believe as they do. Number two, I am demonstrating the ability to issue a simple to understand biblically based answer in a context in which they are familiar in receiving. Most of them come here looking to argue points they think they are well versed in. I am taking the answer the "seek" and packaging it in such a way that most are not prepared to argue.
Why?
What good is it to issue book, chapter and verse to one who's opening line dismisses all book chapter and verse has to offer? What is left? The only thing remaining is the debate format this person is willing to logically scrutinize. By approaching them the way they have prepared (in debate) but at the same time avoiding the knee jerk arguments they are prepared to argue, one has the opportunity to question or Challenge the "logic" that has brought them to the place question the faith to begin with.

This will leave two general responses for the OP: one "Explore Christianity, and see how far this rabbit hole goes." or two issue further challenges. I will typically push back challenges long enough to see what the true intentions of the poster is. This includes leaving my self or some of my statements open to attack by intentionally making them incomplete, allowing a less than honorable person an opportunity to harshly scrutinize and/or make a personal attack.
Or, sometimes it means I must shake an apple tree or two by redirecting an insulting remark. All in an effort to help me discern intentions. I am looking for this feed back, So I know how much time to spend with this person, and the seriousness of his/her topics. After all how are we to not throw out pearls before swine, if we can not tell the swine from a fellow beggar?

Not to mention their is a third aspect or method to this madness. In that not all who seek God will find Him through "Churchly" means. Meaning Not all who seek God, seek what apparently is your (accurate) understanding of Him. Those who come here often times wish to explore the side of God they were not, or could not explore in a "churchly" atmosphere. Many seek God but at the same time can only do so through the means provided to them by the society they live in. In our western culture it often times means they issue challenges or want to know why, or challenge why things were done the way they were done.

I was one of these people. If my message does not appeal to you, then know (respectfully) it was not written for you. Also know that their are many out their who do respond publicly and privately. It is to this handful that do not seek a "traditional European" understanding of God that I have been trained to speak to and for..

 

[LOCO]

I posted some of these in other threads, but I figured a dedicated thread would be best. I do ask that the answer is backed up with proof that is not a quote from the Bible as it does not stand up as evidence of anything with its many translations, edits, and other tomfoolery. So on to the questions!


6) Why is it that Christians feel the need to insert religion as the only alternative when they assume science has failed?

BONUS: Why is the icon for atheist on this site a head with a brain? Is that implying that Christians don't think?

<coffee talk lady>Discuss amongst yourselves </coffee talk lady>

Define exactly which Christians are you referring to? I don't know any Christian personally who has turned to religion because they assumed science had failed.

Religion and philosophy provide some answers as to WHY we are here.

Science provides some answers and competing theories as to HOW we arrived here but no answers as to WHY we are here.

Science and Christianity are not mutually exclusive.

Blessings

 

[GrayAngel]

There are quite a lot of unique responses here. Of course, this shows that all Christians do not think alike, so you may not always get the same answer.

 

[postmortemjoe]

There are quite a lot of unique responses here. Of course, this shows that all Christians do not think alike, so you may not always get the same answer.

I found this very interesting. It seems to only drive home the point that everything is open to interpretation and no one knows god's will beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The Bible is not a historical or scientific record. If it happened in the Bible and can't be backed up in the real world, then it didn't happen. That is why I said not to use it as a credible source.

God had a plan for Satan. Contrary to the popular believe that Satan fell outside of God's will, the Bible teaches that Satan is under God's authority. Not that Satan has any desire of serving God, but he has no ability to do anything apart from God's plan. For a classic scenario showing God using Satan for His purposes, see Job.

This answer to this question seemed to vary somewhat. Some said Satan is under god's authority (above) some say he has free will and can do what he wants (which makes a god useless at that point).

Phil replies, "Your question is incorrect. God did not create Satan, He created Lucifer. Lucifer means "Bright star, or the morning star. A splendid star." Biblical names are very descriptive of the persons nature and character.

God created the heavens and earth and everything in it, so by default he would have had to created Satan for him to exist in the first place. As stated in Genesis, Satan fell from heaven.

Is your body made up of only one part, or are you a collection of various pieces working together for the one body? If you have two hands, two feet, and a head, how many people are you?

God is one person, made up of three parts: the Father (the infinite creator and master of all things), the Son (God alive in the finite body of a man), and the Holy Spirit (who does work in and for God's followers).

But its not the holy head, the holy arm, and holy gallbladder. It's three separate beings. God the father in heaven, Jesus, his only son, which is also him, and the holy spirit, I'm not sure what that is.

Why is that you would assume Christians view science as a failure? Yes that may be the more prevalent view among conservatives but it is not the the universal view of Christianity. A lot of Christians are very open to science and the conclusions that follow.

^Oh yeah? Many people interpret it different ways. See below.

Science is the alternative to religion, not vice-versa. Religion came first, and it will last even after science has died (which may be never).

There is no escaping religion. We're all a member of one religion or another, because we all have beliefs, and religion is nothing more than a set of beliefs. Not all are centered on the worship of gods: it's their ideas that make them distinct from one another. Even believing in nothing is a belief.

If "tom foolery" is not your goal, then please list your source material that does not include the bible or a religious establishment based on it, that supports the questions you have asked.

That's why I'm asking those in the know, because I can't find it anywhere else in history or otherwise.

1) God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. He did NOT ask Casey Anthony to murder her daughter.

2) God never had the intention of Abraham killing his son. Why is it people always forget how this story ends? God stopped Abraham before he could complete the deed, telling him it was only a test.

Years before, God gave Isaac to Abraham to be the heir who would complete God's promise. But before even Isaac was conceived, Abraham had decided to give God a little help in completing his promise, and he had a child with his servant, resulting in Ishmael. I think of this story as God allowing Abraham to redeem himself for this, asking Abraham to trust him, even though God's request didn't make any sense to him.

Because of Abraham's faith, God rewarded him, and Isaac was replaced with a ram as a sacrifice.

1) And you're ok with that? That is not a god I would want to follow. First, I'm not saying Casey Anthony did kill her daughter. I don't understand the hysteria either. Now, after her trial when she was found innocent of murder, child abuse, and the other heinous charge, and found guilty of four counts of lying to police, the general population was outraged. A lot of whom, are the same people that are totally ok with believing a supreme being that tells parents to murder their children. Also, you can't say god didn't ask Casey Anthony to murder her daughter. There's as much proof as god asking Abraham to murder his son.

2) Right, Abraham didn't actually kill Isaac. That's not the point, I'm saying that god put it on the table. This brings up the question, why? What satisfaction does god get out of watching one of his creations brutally murder another? What purpose does this serve and isn't it very primitive of a highly advanced being such as god?

 

[Hakan101]

1) And you're ok with that? That is not a god I would want to follow. First, I'm not saying Casey Anthony did kill her daughter. I don't understand the hysteria either. Now, after her trial when she was found innocent of murder, child abuse, and the other heinous charge, and found guilty of four counts of lying to police, the general population was outraged. A lot of whom, are the same people that are totally ok with believing a supreme being that tells parents to murder their children. Also, you can't say god didn't ask Casey Anthony to murder her daughter. There's as much proof as god asking Abraham to murder his son.

2) Right, Abraham didn't actually kill Isaac. That's not the point, I'm saying that god put it on the table. This brings up the question, why? What satisfaction does god get out of watching one of his creations brutally murder another? What purpose does this serve and isn't it very primitive of a highly advanced being such as god?

There is no proof God told Casey to murder her daughter. Where did you even get that from?

Isaac's sacrifice is a lesson on faith, it is really shocking to see that you missed the point. Abraham's faith was being tested by God, so that we may know just how righteous a man Abraham was (God counted Abraham righteous because of his faith, not his works).

Think about this situation. God asks Abraham to sacrifice his most beloved son, whom God promised Sarah would have even though she was too old. God said that through this son, Isaac, Abraham would become the father of many nations. And yet he asks Abraham to sacrifice him.

Now, there are two options Abraham could have done. One, he could have refused, and Isaac would live. But Abraham chose to accept this task and in fact fact God commanded Abraham to not harm his son once he was about to perform the sacrifice. Isaac lived! It is clear that God had no intention of allowing Abraham to kill his son. But now we realize just how much God values our faith in him. He gets satisfaction not out of murder, but when we willingly offer him the most precious things in our lives because none of them are more precious than God.

 

[GrayAngel]

I found this very interesting. It seems to only drive home the point that everything is open to interpretation and no one knows god's will beyond a shadow of a doubt.

The Bible is not a historical or scientific record. If it happened in the Bible and can't be backed up in the real world, then it didn't happen. That is why I said not to use it as a credible source.

A lot of times people use the Bible to support their own beliefs, which is why you get so many interpretations. Generally, if you take the whole of the Bible and let it speak for itself, it will have only one answer to a question.

But I can see your point. If Christians can't agree on what it says, how are you supposed to know which side is accurate? However, if you're asking questions based on what you know of the Bible, then you're going to get answers derived from the Bible.

This answer to this question seemed to vary somewhat. Some said Satan is under god's authority (above) some say he has free will and can do what he wants (which makes a god useless at that point).

I agree. If God is helpless to stop Satan, then we are without hope. What good are God's plans for us if He won't stop evil from wrecking His plan?

This is one reason why I do not believe in free will. It's not a Bible-based concept, but one of many popular extra-Biblical beliefs used to interpret the Bible. The Bible says that God is in complete control, and all people are slaves to either sin or God. There is no freedom of choice, but freedom in bondage to the right master.

Both good and evil are used for God's purposes, but Satan and others are unwilling participants.

But its not the holy head, the holy arm, and holy gallbladder. It's three separate beings. God the father in heaven, Jesus, his only son, which is also him, and the holy spirit, I'm not sure what that is.

God has one soul. His power extends through all of creation, including the body He chose for Himself, called Jesus. Jesus is finite, but He's empowered and lived through by the infinite God. The Holy Spirit is the infinite God living through other people, but not as the primary resident.

1) And you're ok with that? That is not a god I would want to follow. First, I'm not saying Casey Anthony did kill her daughter. I don't understand the hysteria either. Now, after her trial when she was found innocent of murder, child abuse, and the other heinous charge, and found guilty of four counts of lying to police, the general population was outraged. A lot of whom, are the same people that are totally ok with believing a supreme being that tells parents to murder their children. Also, you can't say god didn't ask Casey Anthony to murder her daughter. There's as much proof as god asking Abraham to murder his son.

God doesn't ask people to commit murder. There are situations when killing was permitted--mostly in war, and even then they would be considered unclean--but not cold-blooded murder. God's intention was to test Abraham's faith in Him, not to get Abraham to slaughter his own son.

2) Right, Abraham didn't actually kill Isaac. That's not the point, I'm saying that god put it on the table. This brings up the question, why? What satisfaction does god get out of watching one of his creations brutally murder another? What purpose does this serve and isn't it very primitive of a highly advanced being such as god?

If He did get enjoyment out of watching people murder one another, He wouldn't have stopped Abraham. Abraham probably assumed that God would raise Isaac from the dead, but he trusted God regardless, even though he didn't understand. This isn't a story of murder, but of trust.

 

[postmortemjoe]

There is no proof God told Casey to murder her daughter. Where did you even get that from?

Isaac's sacrifice is a lesson on faith, it is really shocking to see that you missed the point. Abraham's faith was being tested by God, so that we may know just how righteous a man Abraham was (God counted Abraham righteous because of his faith, not his works).

Think about this situation. God asks Abraham to sacrifice his most beloved son, whom God promised Sarah would have even though she was too old. God said that through this son, Isaac, Abraham would become the father of many nations. And yet he asks Abraham to sacrifice him.

Now, there are two options Abraham could have done. One, he could have refused, and Isaac would live. But Abraham chose to accept this task and in fact fact God commanded Abraham to not harm his son once he was about to perform the sacrifice. Isaac lived! It is clear that God had no intention of allowing Abraham to kill his son. But now we realize just how much God values our faith in him. He gets satisfaction not out of murder, but when we willingly offer him the most precious things in our lives because none of them are more precious than God.

You missed the point by a longshot. I didn't say god told Casey Anthony to kill her daughter. It was a "what if" scenario. There's no proof for it, just like there's no proof outside the Bible that god told Abraham to kill his son (if Abraham even existed at all).

You also seemed to have missed the point about Abraham's actual intentions. Yes I understand it was a test of his faith, but why does god need to know that you'll kill your own children for him. That sounds kind of cultish, no? He must get some satisfaction out of it if a ram was sacrificed instead, otherwise why kill and innocent ram?

A lot of times people use the Bible to support their own beliefs, which is why you get so many interpretations. Generally, if you take the whole of the Bible and let it speak for itself, it will have only one answer to a question.

But I can see your point. If Christians can't agree on what it says, how are you supposed to know which side is accurate? However, if you're asking questions based on what you know of the Bible, then you're going to get answers derived from the Bible.

If everyone is giving me different answers, I don't think they're all originating from the same source.

I agree. If God is helpless to stop Satan, then we are without hope. What good are God's plans for us if He won't stop evil from wrecking His plan?

This is one reason why I do not believe in free will. It's not a Bible-based concept, but one of many popular extra-Biblical beliefs used to interpret the Bible. The Bible says that God is in complete control, and all people are slaves to either sin or God. There is no freedom of choice, but freedom in bondage to the right master.

So a different interpretation?

Both good and evil are used for God's purposes, but Satan and others are unwilling participants.

Good and evil don't exist as absolutes in nature. Is a grizzly bear evil if he mauls a family on vacation? No, it's nature, and to some extent, natural selection.

God has one soul. His power extends through all of creation, including the body He chose for Himself, called Jesus. Jesus is finite, but He's empowered and lived through by the infinite God. The Holy Spirit is the infinite God living through other people, but not as the primary resident.

His power extends through all of creation, but stops at the devil? Again, what's the point of a god that is only "kind of" in charge?

God doesn't ask people to commit murder. There are situations when killing was permitted--mostly in war, and even then they would be considered unclean--but not cold-blooded murder. God's intention was to test Abraham's faith in Him, not to get Abraham to slaughter his own son.

The story of Joshua and the Wall of Jericho come to mind... But still, why is killing permitted? Does god favor one people over another? Or does he just want to see them fight to the death in his name for his own personal amusement?

If He did get enjoyment out of watching people murder one another, He wouldn't have stopped Abraham. Abraham probably assumed that God would raise Isaac from the dead, but he trusted God regardless, even though he didn't understand. This isn't a story of murder, but of trust.

And yet another different interpretation. I think if the word of god was THE word of god, it would be clear and easy to comprehend.