SayaOtonashi

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1. Story of the Slaughter of Innocents - Supposedly, Herod the Great heard about the newborn Jesus and sent his army out to kill all the children in the land, assuming Jesus would be among them, but the family got a divine warning and left the area. A miracle that Jesus survived, although every other child was slaughtered. Some miracle, right. Anyway, it gives us a date to work with. Herod died in 4 BCE, so the birth of Jesus was before that.

2. Census story - When Mary was near due, Joseph and Mary had to travel to Jerusalem al Judea for the census. This was big, because prophecy said that the Messiah would be born in Judea, and this move for the census seemed to answer the prophecy. The NT mentions the name of the Governor who ordered the census - Quirinius - and this gives us another date. Quirinius was made Governor in 6AD, so the census, and the birth, must be after that. Analysis: How can a child born after 6 AD be pursued by a jealous king who died more than 10 years earlier? Chronologically speaking, both cannot be true, so one of them must be false.

3. Jesus ministry - NT says that Jesus was at least 30 when he began his ministry, and ministered @ 2 years before his death, making him at least 32 when he died.

4. Crucifixion - NT claims that the crucifixion was ordered by Governor Pontius Pilate. Pontius left office in 36 AD. Analysis of 2,3,&4: If Jesus was born after 6 AD (census) and died before 36 AD (Pontius left office), then he could not have been AT LEAST 32 when he died, and that is assuming that Quirinius ordered and completed the census on his first day as governor (impossible) and Pontius held the execution on his last day in office (highly unlikely). Add to that, biblical scholars, using New Testament references, determined that the crucifixion was April of 30 AD, making Jesus age at time of death to be less than 24 (more likely 22 or 23), not greater than 32, as the NT claims. One or all of those stories must be false, because it is chronologically impossible for them to all be true. The main reason that Christians don't spot these obvious flaws is that they don't examine these stories as a chronological whole. Trying to create a timeline of biblical stories is impossible, because so many of them are clearly conflicting, timewise, and therefore chronologically impossible when taken together. There is more than one account in the NT of Jesus last words as he died on the cross, and they aren't even remotely close. Only one account of the last words could be true, because last words are a one time deal. The rest must be false. I could go on, but you get the point, right?

What do you guys think about these historical inaccuracies?


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Sketcher

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1. Story of the Slaughter of Innocents - Supposedly, Herod the Great heard about the newborn Jesus and sent his army out to kill all the children in the land, assuming Jesus would be among them, but the family got a divine warning and left the area. A miracle that Jesus survived, although every other child was slaughtered. Some miracle, right. Anyway, it gives us a date to work with. Herod died in 4 BCE, so the birth of Jesus was before that.

2. Census story - When Mary was near due, Joseph and Mary had to travel to Jerusalem al Judea for the census. This was big, because prophecy said that the Messiah would be born in Judea, and this move for the census seemed to answer the prophecy. The NT mentions the name of the Governor who ordered the census - Quirinius - and this gives us another date. Quirinius was made Governor in 6AD, so the census, and the birth, must be after that. Analysis: How can a child born after 6 AD be pursued by a jealous king who died more than 10 years earlier? Chronologically speaking, both cannot be true, so one of them must be false.

3. Jesus ministry - NT says that Jesus was at least 30 when he began his ministry, and ministered @ 2 years before his death, making him at least 32 when he died.

4. Crucifixion - NT claims that the crucifixion was ordered by Governor Pontius Pilate. Pontius left office in 36 AD. Analysis of 2,3,&4: If Jesus was born after 6 AD (census) and died before 36 AD (Pontius left office), then he could not have been AT LEAST 32 when he died, and that is assuming that Quirinius ordered and completed the census on his first day as governor (impossible) and Pontius held the execution on his last day in office (highly unlikely). Add to that, biblical scholars, using New Testament references, determined that the crucifixion was April of 30 AD, making Jesus age at time of death to be less than 24 (more likely 22 or 23), not greater than 32, as the NT claims. One or all of those stories must be false, because it is chronologically impossible for them to all be true. The main reason that Christians don't spot these obvious flaws is that they don't examine these stories as a chronological whole. Trying to create a timeline of biblical stories is impossible, because so many of them are clearly conflicting, timewise, and therefore chronologically impossible when taken together. There is more than one account in the NT of Jesus last words as he died on the cross, and they aren't even remotely close. Only one account of the last words could be true, because last words are a one time deal. The rest must be false. I could go on, but you get the point, right?

What do you guys think about these historical inaccuracies?


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Possible that Quirinius had power in Syria on two occasions - the latter as governor, the former as a legate. He was leading a campaign against the Homonadenses in neighboring Cilicia right around the time Mary and Joseph would have been in Jerusalem, and it is possible that he needed logistical support from Syria for that campaign, and had enough power in the region to warrant the language Luke used to describe him.
 
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Anto9us

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I don't try to make the Bible a history book or a science book.

The cleansing of the Temple, when Jesus did His table-tossing and whip-making, did it happen at very beginning of His ministry as in John's gospel, or at last week of His life as Synoptics have it?

How long was Daniel in the lion's den? Just overnight in the account which is in everybody's Bible, but in Catholic and Orthodox Bibles, there is another account where Daniel is in the den a whole week, and is brought food by Habakkuk ( who in reality lived about a century before this )...

Did Joshua really command the SUN TO STAND STILL, and it did? Earth moves in relation to th e Sun, we know this, yet newspapers still give times for SUNRISE AND SUNSET

Did Samson pick up a donkey's jawbone, and before he put it back down - killed a THOUSAND Phiilistines with it? A 1,000 ? I think we have some hyperbole there.

Look at all four resurrection accounts in the different gospels, and look at four accounts of Saul/Paul's Damascus road conversion; you will see at least paradoxes, if not outright contradictions. (3 in Acts, one in Galatians, for Paul's conversion.)

Did David first meet King Saul playing music for him to drive away evil spirit, or as the young warrior opposing Goliath?
 
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Anto9us

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The slaughter of innocents is not a happy tale - and why the TWO YEAR LEEWAY?

Why do all our nativity scenes have 3 wise men AT THE MANGER, when Bible actually says the Magi found 'the child' Jesus ' in a house ' ?
 
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Anto9us

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As far as the Bible, I believe in SUFFICIENCY, rather than INERRANCY. The Bible is SUFFICIENT to teach us about God, hoops have to be jumped through to make it INERRANT, like claiming that the Temple Cleansing MUST HAVE HAPPENNED TWICE.

And if there are two differing accounts of the same event, it does not have to be that one is right, and one is wrong. It might be possible that both are wrong. I am okay with not being sure that Jesus was born 25 December on a certain year, my faith is not shattered if it was 6 BC, 4 AD, and if He was born in springtime.
 
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royal priest

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The slaughter of innocents is not a happy tale - and why the TWO YEAR LEEWAY?

Why do all our nativity scenes have 3 wise men AT THE MANGER, when Bible actually says the Magi found 'the child' Jesus ' in a house ' ?
Also, why does everyone remember Isaiah saying that it's a lion that shall lay down with the lamb?
Isaiah 11:6
The wolf will live with the lamb
Isaiah 65:25
The wolf and the lamb shall graze together
 
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Anto9us

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Lions, wolves, schmions, schmolves... Yeah.
And where do people get that PAUL FELL OFF HIS HORSE at road to Damascus conversion ? Many seeming contradictions if the accounts are read closely, but NO HORSIE ANYWHERE.
 
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I had a thread where we discussed many of these issues in some depth:

The Census at the birth of Christ

1: Herod's death is determined largely on the coinage of his sons, and some extrapolation from Josephus. While most today opt for 4 BC, others have argued 5 BC or 1 BC on fair grounds too. It isn't really clear cut, therefore.

2. This was the primary question of my thread I mentioned above. Fact is, the problem of Quirinius' census can be solved by various methods, although they all remain speculative. Many of these hedge on the date of Herod's death as well, and how much Roman oversight occured in the Succession.

4. The Bible doesn't say Jesus was at least thirty; Luke says he was 'about thirty'. It is inexact, meaning anything from 25-35 are just as plausible. The point was that Jesus was not a young radical, but entered respectable years in Jewish culture.

What exactly is your question and what specific inaccuracies are you referring to? The historic record here has hardly been definitively shown, as it is based on a severe paucity of sources (mostly Josephus, and a few off the cuff mentions in other unrelated Roman sources).
 
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