Question

[CMatt25]

Is there still a moratorium on homosexuality? I saw the sticky there was til Easter 2012. I have a question if not.

 

[MKJ]

Is there still a moratorium on homosexuality? I saw the sticky there was til Easter 2012. I have a question if not.

Nope, its over.

 

[CMatt25]

Nope, its over.

Ok. Well then here's my question. The Episcopal diocese where I reside allows priests to bless SS unions. I live in a state though where even SS civil unions as well as SS civil marriage are illegal. So obviously TEC can not call these blessed unions legal marriages. My question though is in those states where SS marriage is legal, do most of the dioceses in those states perform SS marriage ceremonies?

 

[MKJ]

Ok. Well then here's my question. The Episcopal diocese where I reside allows priests to bless SS unions. I live in a state though where even SS civil unions as well as SS civil marriage are illegal. So obviously TEC can not call these blessed unions legal marriages. My question though is in those states where SS marriage is legal, do most of the dioceses in those states perform SS marriage ceremonies?

No, there has never been an approved same-sex marriage rite in any place in the Anglican Communion.

Also, as far as I know, no diocese or parish is required to use the same sex blessing ritual. So in some places it is not found at all. And it is strictly a North American thing as well, and quite controversial in the wider Anglican Communion.

 

[CMatt25]

No, there has never been an approved same-sex marriage rite in any place in the Anglican Communion.

Also, as far as I know, no diocese or parish is required to use the same sex blessing ritual. So in some places it is not found at all. And it is strictly a North American thing as well, and quite controversial in the wider Anglican Communion.

Thanks. After I read your answer, I realized I knew that. I think what threw me off is I was reading on a parish website about the blessing ceremony and it mentioned it of course couldn't be called marriage in our state where SS marriage is illegal.

I think you're correct. I know in the diocese here the bishop has given priests the go ahead on the blessing ritual but it's up to the individual priest or parishes. I know it's controversial but according to a priest in my area there has been no exodus here and very little dissent. I actually was just recently reading an article that said the diocese where I live is growing or holding. Which bucks the trend I guess for mainline churches. But in any case I was pleased to see that. An Episcopal priest I have corresponded with shared with me a story about a gentleman asking her when she arrived at the parish a few yrs back about Bishop Robinson. This man had left the church for awhile because of the homosexuality issue. Her answer was if they believed in one God and in Jesus they could disagree on homosexuality and still worship together. And the priest told me the man has been in church every wk since. I loved that way of looking at it. That family members don't always agree on everything but they are still family. God bless. Peace.

 

[Sean611]

MKJ is correct, no diocese or parish is required to use the ssb ritual. In fact, in many dioceses, if the parish priest wants to use the ssb ritual, the congregation has to vote on it.

I have no stats, but I would guess that there will be many parishes who will not be using this blessing, my own parish being one of them. TEC and the larger Communion are still quite divided on these issues. Things are not as hunky dory as TEC leadership would like us to believe in regards to these matters.

 

[MKJ]

MKJ is correct, no diocese or parish is required to use the ssb ritual. In fact, in many dioceses, if the parish priest wants to use the ssb ritual, the congregation has to vote on it.

I have no stats, but I would guess that there will be many parishes who will not be using this blessing, my own parish being one of them. TEC and the larger Communion are still quite divided on these issues. Things are not as hunky dory as TEC leadership would like us to believe in regards to these matters.

I suspect that eventually they will try to do something very similar to what happened with women's ordination. Initially touted as something parishes could decide upon, eventually the fact that some do it will be used to argue that it is now normative and ok for Anglicans. And therefor those that do not use it are either somehow not Anglican, or are homophobes, or are perceived as a bunch of people who need to be brought along gently.

Whether they will ever try to develop some kind of coherent theology of sexuality so there is at least a semblance of rationality in what they do and teach is another question.

 

[Picky Picky]

I suspect that eventually they will try to do something very similar to what happened with women's ordination. Initially touted as something parishes could decide upon, eventually the fact that some do it will be used to argue that it is now normative and ok for Anglicans. And therefor those that do not use it are either somehow not Anglican, or are homophobes, or are perceived as a bunch of people who need to be brought along gently.

Whether they will ever try to develop some kind of coherent theology of sexuality so there is at least a semblance of rationality in what they do and teach is another question.

Interesting you should say that about a theology of sexuality at the same time as a thread is running about Rowan Williams's own distinguished contribution to that theology.

 

[Albion]

I suspect that eventually they will try to do something very similar to what happened with women's ordination. Initially touted as something parishes could decide upon, eventually the fact that some do it will be used to argue that it is now normative and ok for Anglicans. And therefor those that do not use it are either somehow not Anglican, or are homophobes, or are perceived as a bunch of people who need to be brought along gently.

There is no doubt about it.

 

[Sean611]

I suspect that eventually they will try to do something very similar to what happened with women's ordination. Initially touted as something parishes could decide upon, eventually the fact that some do it will be used to argue that it is now normative and ok for Anglicans. And therefor those that do not use it are either somehow not Anglican, or are homophobes, or are perceived as a bunch of people who need to be brought along gently.

I suspect you are correct, however, I see this as ruffling a lot more feathers than women's ordination did. Women's ordination had the support of most liberals, moderates, and some conservatives. The only one's who truly had their feather's ruffled were conservative Anglo-Catholics and some evangelicals. In some cases, bishops out right lied when it came to the parish option regarding women's ordination and went back on their word, that is truly sad regardless of how one feels about women's ordination.

That being said, I suspect that they will try to make ssbs the norm at some point.

 

[Albion]

I suspect you are correct, however, I see this as ruffling a lot more feathers than women's ordination did. Women's ordination had the support of most liberals, moderates, and some conservatives. The only one's who truly had their feather's ruffled were conservative Anglo-Catholics and some evangelicals.

I'm confident that you wouldn't be saying this if you had been an Anglican when all of that was happening.

 

[Sean611]

I'm confident that you wouldn't be saying this if you had been an Anglican when all of that was happening.

You may be right, as I wasn't around at the time, in any capacity.

 

[Esdra]

I suspect you are correct, however, I see this as ruffling a lot more feathers than women's ordination did. Women's ordination had the support of most liberals, moderates, and some conservatives. The only one's who truly had their feather's ruffled were conservative Anglo-Catholics and some evangelicals. In some cases, bishops out right lied when it came to the parish option regarding women's ordination and went back on their word, that is truly sad regardless of how one feels about women's ordination.

That being said, I suspect that they will try to make ssbs the norm at some point.

And there then will be even more division in the Anglican Church I suppose...

 

[MKJ]

Interesting you should say that about a theology of sexuality at the same time as a thread is running about Rowan Williams's own distinguished contribution to that theology.

Well, i suppose.

Though there is not any theological discussion in the thread, on that issue, as far as I can see.

Right now the whole thing is bizarre. The whole idea of a blessing ceremony for sexual relationships outside of marriage is quite bizarre, for several reasons. And the fact that they will do them for same sex couples but not opposite sex couples is even more out to lunch.

 

[MKJ]

You may be right, as I wasn't around at the time, in any capacity.

It was a pretty big deal at the time. While it is hard to separate it from people who objected to the liturgical changes, there was a fairly large exodus of people at the time. And things were pretty nasty in some places for quite a while.

Its still going on too, though the scale is smaller now. I know where I went to school, they have a very active Anglican chaplaincy which has tended to be associated with what I guess you could call traditionalist Anglicanism. (Though being a chaplaincy there are actually a lot of different sorts of people involved.) Just recently the diocese was looking to find reasons to cut funding it - a stupid idea since it is one of the best producers of new, young Anglicans, which are in short supply here. Anyway, one of the rationales given was they the chaplaincy associated with a position which did not support womens ordination. Besides being kind of inaccurate, it just puts the lie to the idea that diversity on such issues will really be allowed to persist.

 

[CMatt25]

Right now the whole thing is bizarre. The whole idea of a blessing ceremony for sexual relationships outside of marriage is quite bizarre, for several reasons. And the fact that they will do them for same sex couples but not opposite sex couples is even more out to lunch.

I'm new but I'm kinda getting the impression I might be the only person participating on the Anglican forum who's ok with TEC? And I'm not even Episcopalian. I'm kinda just thinking since TEC strives to welcome all, the blessing ceremony right now is just something to aid in welcoming all including our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters. Opposite sex couples have the marriage ceremony option. I know there is no SS marriage ritual but do you think it's possible if SS marriage becomes legal in more places, that eventually TEC will adopt one and celibrate marriage for both opposite and SS couples? And then with no need for it, the current SS blessing could just be done away with.

 

[ebia]

Is there still a moratorium on homosexuality? I saw the sticky there was til Easter 2012. I have a question if not.

The moratorium is over - the posters who obsessed over the topic have moved on. However many here find its a horse that has been flogged to death a long time ago.

 

[Picky Picky]

Well, i suppose.

Though there is not any theological discussion in the thread, on that issue, as far as I can see.

Right now the whole thing is bizarre. The whole idea of a blessing ceremony for sexual relationships outside of marriage is quite bizarre, for several reasons. And the fact that they will do them for same sex couples but not opposite sex couples is even more out to lunch.

Sorry, I meant in the link in that thread OP.

 

[Albion]

Right now the whole thing is bizarre. The whole idea of a blessing ceremony for sexual relationships outside of marriage is quite bizarre, for several reasons. And the fact that they will do them for same sex couples but not opposite sex couples is even more out to lunch.

Exactly. What could possibly be the rationale for this situation?

And why aren't we discussing church blessings for every other one of life's milestones, such as affairs, losing virginity, moving in with another, etc.?

 

[CMatt25]

Exactly. What could possibly be the rationale for this situation?

And why aren't we discussing church blessings for every other one of life's milestones, such as affairs, losing virginity, moving in with another, etc.?

Without getting into it I know I've read the rationale and reasoning behind the views and beliefs some Christians perhaps of a more liberal persuasion have about homosexuality. So I'm sure everyone closer to the situation than I has read or heard reasoning too.

I would just say there are Christians who might not believe a SS couple living in a loving and committed monogamous relationship compares to a heterosexual married person in an adulterous affair or with heterosexuals shacking up together or losing virginity.

Heterosexuals have the opportunity to have their unions blessed and celebrated in TEC. And since some believe as they do about homosexuality, I would think the blessing is merely something to provide for the SS couple.