Question...

[Ryan Collins]

My question is more about adherence to the Torah. Do you uphold the Torah? If so, what parts (all, dietary, certain portions, etc)? Do those who consider themselves Messianic Gentiles uphold the Torah as well? If so, how was that transition into the adhering to the commands of God?

What is your opinion of someone who previously tattooed their body?

As you can tell, I am most interested in this subject and often wonder about the transition to Torah observance (Shabbat preparation, obedience to dietary laws, etc.) for yourself and the family.

I have so many questions about this...

 

[zaksmummy]

My husband and I are gentiles. He says we are Torah absorbant ie we are aiming to increase our keeping of Torah, but not having a Jewish background it can be tough when you first start out. The key is to keep things in perspective ie you are a gentile, you can worship God in a gentile way and thats ok, and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

We started off with keeping Sabbath and then kept the other Feasts as they came up. You might need to do a little research as to how to do this, especially if you are in the same situation as us - no Jewish comiunity nearby.

Gods appointed Times by Barney Kasden will help you get started - its a really good read, and VERY helpful.

As for tattoos - the old is past and the new has come - there is now NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

Be blessed and keep the questions coming

 

[Ryan Collins]

My husband and I are gentiles. He says we are Torah absorbant ie we are aiming to increase our keeping of Torah, but not having a Jewish background it can be tough when you first start out. The key is to keep things in perspective ie you are a gentile, you can worship God in a gentile way and thats ok, and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit.

We started off with keeping Sabbath and then kept the other Feasts as they came up. You might need to do a little research as to how to do this, especially if you are in the same situation as us - no Jewish comiunity nearby.

Gods appointed Times by Barney Kasden will help you get started - its a really good read, and VERY helpful.

As for tattoos - the old is past and the new has come - there is now NO condemnation for those in Christ Jesus.

Be blessed and keep the questions coming

Thank you for the reply. I am not entirely sure what has come over me lately, but I have had an ever-increasing interest in Messianic Judaism. I have always had a passion for First Testament theology (and am going to be beginning graduate studies this next Fall, concentrating on First Testament--Old Testament). Just recently I purchased a tallit, though I am not entirely sure why.

Enough of the rambling, I guess I am beginning to see the need for the commands of God outside of justification purposes. That although Yeshua fulfilled the law, it is not to be done away with and there is still a vital need for the law in the lives of a believer. In other words, I am now seeing the need for obedience but unsure of what that obedience entails within the Torah setting.

What made you and your husband begin down this path of Messianic obedience? Was it mutual from the very beginning or did it begin with the influence of the other? If the latter, how was the reception from the other person?

 

[visionary]

Welcome prodical child... God is leading.. let Him continue to lead.. He know what you need, when you are ready, and what is really required to please Him.. He is your instructor, He is your mentor, your advocate, and He is above all your teacher.. He will teach you in the TRUTH, the WAY, and the LIFE... just as He lived it, He will show you how you can too......... We here are at different stages, different levels, and come from different backgrounds, thus we will be speaking from what we know so far... but we all are learning... SO may you be blessed in your spiritual journey with Him...

 

[yedida]

Thank you for the reply. I am not entirely sure what has come over me lately, but I have had an ever-increasing interest in Messianic Judaism. I have always had a passion for First Testament theology (and am going to be beginning graduate studies this next Fall, concentrating on First Testament--Old Testament). Just recently I purchased a tallit, though I am not entirely sure why.

Enough of the rambling, I guess I am beginning to see the need for the commands of God outside of justification purposes. That although Yeshua fulfilled the law, it is not to be done away with and there is still a vital need for the law in the lives of a believer. In other words, I am now seeing the need for obedience but unsure of what that obedience entails within the Torah setting.

What made you and your husband begin down this path of Messianic obedience? Was it mutual from the very beginning or did it begin with the influence of the other? If the latter, how was the reception from the other person?

Welcome home!!
We've all been where you are at. Viz told you quite rightly. The Spirit will lead you and gently guide you as He prepares you. All you need do is be ready and willing to be led. It may be just baby steps to start.
I was following Torah on my own for over a year before I even knew it had a name - I kept calling churches round about to see if they believed what the Spirit was teaching me. Of course, they were of no help. They tried though, I guess, in their own way.
It was 2 years more before I went kosher and a third before I became a strict kosher observer - baby steps. Abba is in no hurry, He just wants children who are willing and desirous to be obedient. He'll take you by your hand and lead you to the highest of heights in Him. Enjoy your journey.
And keep the questions coming. We love to talk about our Abba!

 

[aniello]

Hi Ryan Welcome,

There's a few MJ congregations in the Phoenix area it's also the home base for Jewish Voice broadcasts. Many years ago I knew Louis Kaplan who founded it and he helped me about being a Jew who believes in Yeshua. May his memory be for a blessing. Anyway if you google messianic judaism phoenix arizona it should bring up a listing somewhere in the thing. I tried to copy it and post it here, but I'm computer-challenged and it didn't work.

Pray and study much, I'm sure you already do, and wait on the L-rd's timing. Don't be surprized when some folks get a bit miffed from time to time. Ultimately, everyone will come before Torah, under our Great King, Yeshua.

 

[yedida]

Ryan,
I had meant to share this link with you:

CTOMC - Coalition of Torah Observant Messianic Congregations

On the home page go to the tab that says CTOMC Chat and download the inSpeak software. It's free and it's very safe, no spyware, malware, no nothing to harm your system. Once you download it click on Chat, scroll almost to the bottom to Sensitive Messianic Believers then choose the room that has the CTOMC letters in front of its title. This is a live chat with a Messianic Rabbi (who used to be orthodox Jewish) they have live Shabbat services that you can take part in, all kinds of interactive teachings, music, Hebrew language lessons, liturgical lessons (such as the blessings and prayers, etc). This is a great place if there is nothing anywhere nearby you. I'm Cheri4Yeshua there.

On this site's home page, there's also a tab for Messianic Congregations by location, maybe you can find something close by.

 

[Ryan Collins]

Ryan,
I had meant to share this link with you:

CTOMC - Coalition of Torah Observant Messianic Congregations

On the home page go to the tab that says CTOMC Chat and download the inSpeak software. It's free and it's very safe, no spyware, malware, no nothing to harm your system. Once you download it click on Chat, scroll almost to the bottom to Sensitive Messianic Believers then choose the room that has the CTOMC letters in front of its title. This is a live chat with a Messianic Rabbi (who used to be orthodox Jewish) they have live Shabbat services that you can take part in, all kinds of interactive teachings, music, Hebrew language lessons, liturgical lessons (such as the blessings and prayers, etc). This is a great place if there is nothing anywhere nearby you. I'm Cheri4Yeshua there.

On this site's home page, there's also a tab for Messianic Congregations by location, maybe you can find something close by.

I'm presently on a Mac and I do not think the inSpeak software is compatible with mac software. If I can find a way to get it on the mac, I will most definitely be there. I am in fervent in pursuing education regarding Messianic Judaism. HaShem must have been "up to something" when he instilled a passion for the Hebrew language when I opted to take it as my first language course entering undergraduate Bible college; I was captivated by the First Testament from the get-go.

I'm going to try and find inSpeak for mac because I am thoroughly interested.

 

[yedida]

I'm presently on a Mac and I do not think the inSpeak software is compatible with mac software. If I can find a way to get it on the mac, I will most definitely be there. I am in fervent in pursuing education regarding Messianic Judaism. HaShem must have been "up to something" when he instilled a passion for the Hebrew language when I opted to take it as my first language course entering undergraduate Bible college; I was captivated by the First Testament from the get-go.

I'm going to try and find inSpeak for mac because I am thoroughly interested.

I just checked with their help room, as of right now there is no build for Mac. I'm so sorry.
How far along are you in the language study?

 

[Ryan Collins]

I just checked with their help room, as of right now there is no build for Mac. I'm so sorry.
How far along are you in the language study?

I only studied for one full school year a couple of years ago. I'll be doing extensive language study again this upcoming Fall when I begin my graduate studies.

I'm trying to find an emulator that will help me get onto inSpeak...

 

[yedida]

I only studied for one full school year a couple of years ago. I'll be doing extensive language study again this upcoming Fall when I begin my graduate studies.

I'm trying to find an emulator that will help me get onto inSpeak...

The help desk is open 24/7 but the CTOMC room is only open from about 7:30am-11pm that's est. They are out of Halifax Nova Scotia about an hour earlier than est. If you manage to get on tomorrow Reb Avner will help you, tell him I said Hi!

 

[Ryan Collins]

The help desk is open 24/7 but the CTOMC room is only open from about 7:30am-11pm that's est. They are out of Halifax Nova Scotia about an hour earlier than est. If you manage to get on tomorrow Reb Avner will help you, tell him I said Hi!

Unable to get on, but the owner of inSpeak said that he is going to be working on a flash version of inSpeak that would allow people on all operating platforms to enter a room. Once this happens, I should be able to join the CTOMC room from inSpeak.

 

[Torah]

My question is more about adherence to the Torah. Do you uphold the Torah? If so, what parts (all, dietary, certain portions, etc)? Do those who consider themselves Messianic Gentiles uphold the Torah as well? If so, how was that transition into the adhering to the commands of God?

What is your opinion of someone who previously tattooed their body?

As you can tell, I am most interested in this subject and often wonder about the transition to Torah observance (Shabbat preparation, obedience to dietary laws, etc.) for yourself and the family.

I have so many questions about this...

These are intended to get one started in there search of: how to celebrate Gods Holydays in your home.


How to Shabbat at your home

http://www.christianforums.com/t7383372/

Celebrating Gods Holydays
http://www.christianforums.com/t7390705/

 

[Ryan Collins]

Very nice! Thank you for the thread links!

 

[Ryan Collins]

The more and more I learn about the Messianic community, the more intrigued and interested I become in being involved. Coming from a strictly Protestant and Gentile background without a trace of Judaism (from my knowledge, at least) in my family, I was raised that the Sabbath was Sunday, you went to church, and then took the day off of work though not necessarily from doing work, but from your organized labor or place of employment. The entire concept of Shabbat is entirely foreign to me (the true meaning of Shabbat).

I am not alone in this either. My wife is a new believer in Yeshua who came to know the truth on her own; not a single member of her family believes in God (in fact, her cousin is a professed "pagan"). She too has been raised in a non-denominational, Protestant setting that is very much against the slightest idea of ritual because liturgy = legalism (which unfortunately is a growing and popular trend of thought in 21st century congregations).

My wife knows of my growing interest in First Testament studies and understands my desire to pastor a church and teach First Testament or Ancient Near Eastern studies at a university level. In other words, she understands my growing passion for the Hebrew scriptures, culture, and customs.

With this said and knowing the backgrounds we come from, how would you recommend us beginning to incorporate the Shabbat? I have not discussed the idea with my wife, and that is because I do not know where to begin. Do I dive headfirst into the Shabbat and hold to it completely, or do I take baby steps and make sure we understand each component and eventually we will come to the point of keeping the Shabbat to the fullest? Is there a fullest?

For example, the link posted above on the Shabbat is rather extensive to me (which is a result of its foreign nature because of my background). Would you recommend a Gentile of all Gentiles (like my wife and I are) immediately performing detail-by-detail the order of the Shabbat tradition? How would you recommend we start being obedient to God? I have a 22 month old daughter that I want to be raised up differently then how I was; I want her to know, appreciate, and believe that the Tanakh is just as vitally needed and needed to be obeyed as the New Testament Scriptures.

Help my family get steered in the right direction. How would you recommend we go about it? Should we gradually grow into it or shock the living the daylights out of our 20-21st century Non-Denominational Protestantism? Haha!

 

[anisavta]

My advice is to begin slow. Understand what you are doing. There is nothing worse than a Gentile "doing" Jewish things without knowing why. Many of the customs and traditions of our People are wonderful, but not necessarily from a scriptural basis.
If there is a reputable Messianic Synagogue (preferably UMJC or MJAA - go on line - there are links to congregations there) check them out.
Here's a link to a good reference book. "G~d's Appointed Times".
Amazon.com: God's Appointed Times New Edition: A Practical Guide for Understanding and Celebrating the Biblical Holidays (9781880226353): Barney Kasdan: Books
G~d is indeed calling His people back to the foundations He designed instead of the human institution of Christianity but to exchange one set of religious practices for another is just as bad.
Blessings on your journey.

 

[Ryan Collins]

My advice is to begin slow. Understand what you are doing. There is nothing worse than a Gentile "doing" Jewish things without knowing why. Many of the customs and traditions of our People are wonderful, but not necessarily from a scriptural basis.
If there is a reputable Messianic Synagogue (preferably UMJC or MJAA - go on line - there are links to congregations there) check them out.
Here's a link to a good reference book. "G~d's Appointed Times".
Amazon.com: God's Appointed Times New Edition: A Practical Guide for Understanding and Celebrating the Biblical Holidays (9781880226353): Barney Kasdan: Books
G~d is indeed calling His people back to the foundations He designed instead of the human institution of Christianity but to exchange one set of religious practices for another is just as bad.
Blessings on your journey.

Thank you. Second recommendation for this book so that must mean I should purchase it. Just confirmed for $1.30.

As far as starting slow, this is exactly what I desire because I want to fully comprehend the meaning of what is being done, said, etc. What would be starting slow, however? This may seem elementary, but I do not even know where to begin.

 

[visionary]

You can always begin where God has shown you so far.. Keep the shabbat as a resting time [a date with your maker and redeemer] .. we prepare for it, by having our meals all ready, thus decreasing the amount of buzy work.. do not worry about the correct way.. God knows the heart and intent... He is more interested in where your mind is at anyways... and the shabbat is for a total focus in on Him... Let Him into your home and heart.. Pray for His teachings.. His guidance.. His Wisdom.. His understanding.. .. sing His Praises...and His leading in all this... after all it is because you love Him, that you want to have this date with Him... Take a walk through nature and let your heart and mind rest in Him and all that is His... If He has placed a way to "love thy neighbor" before you.. then show them that God loves them.... Live as He live and love like He loves.. Do not do your own pleasures....

Isaiah 58:13
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words,

 

[zaksmummy]

Go along withthe leading of the Holy Spirit - we began to actively rest from work and then about two months later met a couple who were Messianic gentiles, who introduced us to the concept of friday evening shabbat meal etc.

For some of the other celebrations we were lead by the Spirit without a clue why we were doing things, but later read up on it and found out why.

 

[yedida]

So far everyone has given you excellent advice.
Beginning with the Shabbat is the best option. Hashem gave us 6 days to do our bidding. He gave us the Shabbat so that we could give Him ourselves -- 24 hours to concentrate on the Creator rather than on the creature and our own creations.
During the next upcoming Shabbats, you could begin to learn about the Passover and what it is all about since it's coming up soon.
Another little celebration that is coming up is Purim. If you have kids you could do a mini celebration at home - read the story of Esther. Everyone has fun making loud booing noises at the mention of Haman, loud happy yea!s at the mention of Mordecai, and sweet aaahhhs at the mention of Esther's name. Baby steps.
Mostly do what you're doing, let the Spirit guide you. He won't lead you astray.