Question

[Dark_Lite]

While searching around about things regarding the position of various Christian traditions on the afterlife, I came across an interesting idea from Wikipedia. It cites several different Catechisms as the source for this. I am wondering if this is "the" theology, or at least an allowable type of theology, in Orthodoxy.

The claim is that souls of the deceased currently in the hell-bound state (which gets upgraded to the full state of hell after the final judgment) can actually be freed from this state and attain salvation at the end of time due to "prayers offered in their behalf, especially those offered in union with the oblation of the bloodless sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Christ, and by works of mercy done in faith for their memory."

Thanks.

 

[Rowan]

While searching around about things regarding the position of various Christian traditions on the afterlife, I came across an interesting idea from Wikipedia. It cites several different Catechisms as the source for this. I am wondering if this is "the" theology, or at least an allowable type of theology, in Orthodoxy.

The claim is that souls of the deceased currently in the hell-bound state (which gets upgraded to the full state of hell after the final judgment) can actually be freed from this state and attain salvation at the end of time due to "prayers offered in their behalf, especially those offered in union with the oblation of the bloodless sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Christ, and by works of mercy done in faith for their memory."

Thanks.

St. Xenia of St. Petersburg literally prayed her husband's soul into heaven. Also, it's true that we pray for the souls of the dead during the oblation in the liturgy, have regular memorials, etc. I've been to one parish where a special place on the candle stands was reserved for prayers for the dead. For some reason, this has been a hot topic around me lately, and while discussing it, the common understanding is that our prayers have an effect, we are tied to the dead, and there are so many aspects to the afterlife that surpass our understanding that we cannot know everything this side of the veil. I don't come from an anti-intellectual stance when I say this, but Tradition is so rich with many accounts of the living communicating with the dead that I cannot help but to be in personal awe of it all.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

I am wondering if this is "the" theology, or at least an allowable type of theology, in Orthodoxy.

Allowable? Perhaps, although my priest adamantly rejects such a notion (as taught to us during catechesis).

 

[Barky]

There isn't a consensus.

We know our prayers help the dead, we don't know to what degree or the nature of the help. We pray for them because we love them, and ask God to save them and grant them rest.

 

[cobweb]

There isn't a consensus.

We know our prayers help the dead, we don't know to what degree or the nature of the help. We pray for them because we love them, and ask God to save them and grant them rest.

I said something similar when I tried to explain this to my protestant mother.

 

[Protoevangel]

"One day, at the time of general prayer in prison, I unexpectedly uttered the name of my dead brother Dinocrates. Struck by this unusual occurrence, I began to pray and sigh for him before God. On the following night I received a vision: I saw Dinocrates come forth, as though from a dark place. He was in intense heat, tormented by thirst, filthy in appearance and pallid. On his face was the wound from which he had died. Between us yawned a deep crevasse, and we were unable to approach each other. Beside the place where Dinocrates stood there was a full cistern, the lip of which stood much higher than my brother's stature, and Dinocrates stretched, trying to reach the water. I was filled with pity, for the height of the rim prevented my brother from drinking. Immediately after this I awoke and realized that my brother was in torment. But believing that my prayer could help him in his suffering, I prayed all day and night in the prison, with cries and lamentations, that Dinocrates be treated mercifully. And on the day on which we were kept in chains, I received a new vision: the place which before I had seen had been made bright, and Dinocrates, with a clean face and beautiful apparel, was enjoying its coolness. Where he had had a wound, I saw only a trace of it. The rim of the cistern was no higher than the waist of the young man, and he was able to draw water from it without effort. On the rim of the cistern stood a golden cup full of water. Dinocrates approached it and began to drink from it, but the water in it did not decrease. Satisfied, he stepped away from it and began to rejoice. With this the vision ended. I then understood that he had been released from punishment."
- The Holy Martyr Perpetua (Commemorated February 1)​

 

[MariaRegina]

There isn't a consensus.

We know our prayers help the dead, we don't know to what degree or the nature of the help. We pray for them because we love them, and ask God to save them and grant them rest.

Ditto.

That is why we pray for the dead and for God's mercy.

Thanks, Dark_Lite for asking this very important question. Truly all those who have died and those who have fallen asleep in Christ need our prayers.

Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us.

 

[ArmyMatt]

yeah, you will find various saints' lives where stuff like this is found (Elder Joseph the Hesychast also comes to mind, with his aunt), but I think the only thing definitive that we can say is that there is only one Final Judgment, so until that time, trust in God's love and mercy and leave it up to Him.

 

[Dark_Lite]

Informative. Thanks.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Here's a prayer of the Church that may shed some light on this subject also.

AKATHIST for the REPOSE of Those Who have FALLEN ASLEEP


Also, here is a decree from the Synod of Jerusalem (1672), which was conducted more or less under the guidance of western influence, and as a result sounds very purgatorial in nature:

We believe that the souls of those that have fallen asleep are either at rest or in torment, according to what each hath wrought; — for when they are separated from their bodies, they depart immediately either to joy, or to sorrow and lamentation; though confessedly neither their enjoyment, nor condemnation are complete. For after the common resurrection, when the soul shall be united with the body, with which it had behaved itself well or ill, each shall receive the completion of either enjoyment or of condemnation forsooth.

And such as though envolved in mortal sins have not departed in despair, but have, while still living in the body, repented, though without bringing forth any fruits of repentance — by pouring forth tears, forsooth, by kneeling while watching in prayers, by afflicting themselves, by relieving the poor, and in fine by shewing forth by their works their love towards God and their neighbour, and which the Catholic Church hath from the beginning rightly called satisfaction — of these and such like the souls depart into Hades, and there endure the punishment due to the sins they have committed. But they are aware of their future release from thence, and are delivered by the Supreme Goodness, through the prayers of the Priests, and the good works which the relatives of each do for their Departed; especially the unbloody Sacrifice availing in the highest degree; which each offereth particularly for his relatives that have fallen asleep, and which the Catholic and Apostolic Church offereth daily for all alike; it being, of course, understood that we know not the time of their release. For that there is deliverance for such from their direful condition, and that before the common resurrection and judgment we know and believe; but when we know not. - Synod of Jerusalem of 1672, Decree 18

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Interesting thread

would you all say this is somewhat like the Catholic concept of Purgatory? or if not, how is it different? (I'm honestly wondering.. not to debate)

 

[Barky]

Interesting thread

would you all say this is somewhat like the Catholic concept of Purgatory? or if not, how is it different? (I'm honestly wondering.. not to debate)

We have no understanding of place in which the soul goes after death in order to purify themselves so they can approach God. This is where a lot of our Theology's differences are made apparent. The Orthodox understanding of sin, it's consequence, etc, are very different than the Catholic understanding. We simply know through revelation to the saints, etc, that our prayers help the dead. That is enough for us.

 

[MariaRegina]

We have no understanding of place in which the soul goes after death in order to purify themselves so they can approach God. This is where a lot of our Theology's differences are made apparent. The Orthodox understanding of sin, it's consequence, etc, are very different than the Catholic understanding. We simply know through revelation to the saints, etc, that our prayers help the dead. That is enough for us.

 

[Dorothea]

Interesting thread

would you all say this is somewhat like the Catholic concept of Purgatory? or if not, how is it different? (I'm honestly wondering.. not to debate)

Hmm, I've not read that there is a purging or cleaning of a soul before going to Heaven, only that our prayers can affect the soul. Here's the teachings on this from the Greek Orthodox Diocese (under The Dogmatic Tradition of the Orthodox Church)...I don't know if this will help answer your question, Monica.

V. ORTHODOX ESCHATOLOGY

The Holy Spirit of God, working through the Church and its sacramental life, leads the plan of salvation in Christ to completion and final fulfillment. The final battle with evil that operates in the world will occur just before the coming again of the Lord. In the meantime, the struggle against evil and dark forces in the world continues, with some victories on behalf of the Church, and with some failures on behalf of some of its members. This is the normal condition of the life of the Church, which is the inaugurated Kingdom of God, and which, however, has not yet come fully. Two distinct stages are to be recognized, in terms of Christian Orthodox eschatology: that of a "partial judgment," of a "partial" or "realized" eschatology, and that of a "final judgment," at the coming again of the Lord, which will come at the end of time.
a) Partial judgment - the hour of our death

Our physical death, a consequence of the first man's sin that we still suffer, can be seen in two ways:

1. negatively, as a kind of catastrophe, especially for those who do not believe in Christ and life everlasting in Him; and
2. positively, as the end of a maturation process, which leads us to the encounter with our Maker. Christ has destroyed the power of the "last enemy," death (1 Cor. 18:26).

A Christian worthy of the name is not afraid of this physical death insofar as it is not accompanied by a spiritual or eternal (eschatological) death.

A partial judgment is instituted immediately after our physical death, which places us in an intermediate condition of partial blessedness (for the righteous), or partial suffering (for the unrighteous).

Disavowing a belief in the Western "Purgatory," our Church believes that a change is possible during this intermediate state and stage. The Church, militant and triumphant, is still one, which means that we can still influence one another with our prayers and our saintly (or ungodly) life. This is the reason why we pray for our dead. Also, almsgiving on behalf of the dead may be of some help to them, without implying, of course, that those who provide the alms are in some fashion "buying" anybody's salvation.
b) General Judgment - the Coming Again of Christ

The early Church lived in expectation of the "day of the Lord," the day of His coming again. The Church later realized that its time is known but to God; still, some signs of Christ's second coming were expected:

1. The Gospel will be preached everywhere in the world (Matt. 24: 14; Luke 18:8; John 10: 16);
2. The Jews will be converted to Christ (Rom. 11:25-26; cf. Hosea 3:5);
3. Elijah, or even Enoch, will return (Mark 9:11);
4. The Antichrist will appear with numerous false prophets accompanying him (1 John 2:10; 2 Thes. 2:3; Matt. 24:5);
5. Physical phenomena, upheavals, wars, sufferings will occur (Matt. 24:6; Mark 13:26; Luke 21:25); and,
6. The world will be destroyed by fire ( ekpyrosis ; see 2 Peter 3:5).

All these signs are expected to be given in due time; without them, the end-time will not come.

The resurrection of the dead is a miracle that will happen at the second coming of the Lord. According to the Creed: "I await the resurrection of the dead." This resurrection will be a new creation. However, our physical bodies as we know them now will be restored, in a spiritualized existence like that of the Lord after His Resurrection.

The final judgment will follow the resurrection of all. Some will rise to the resurrection of life, and some to the resurrection of judgment and condemnation. Christ will be our Judge on the basis of our deeds, our works of love or our acts of wickedness.

The end-time will follow, with a permanent separation between good and evil, between those who will be awarded etemal life of happiness and bliss in heaven, and those who will be condemned to the fire of eternal damnation, to the eternal remorse of their conscience for having rejected God and authentic life in Him and having joined the inauthentic life invented by the devil and his servants.

A new heaven and new earth will be established, inhabited by righteousness (2 Peter 3:13). The Kingdom of God will be fully established; the Church will cease to exist. Finally, the Son of God will turn the Kingdom over to God the Father, "that God may be everything to everyone" (1 Cor. 15:28).

The Dogmatic Tradition of the Orthodox Church — Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America

 

[Ortho_Cat]

Interesting thread

would you all say this is somewhat like the Catholic concept of Purgatory? or if not, how is it different? (I'm honestly wondering.. not to debate)

Here is a quote from St. Mark of Ephesus on the matter:

But if souls have departed this life in faith and love, while nevertheless carrying away with themselves certain faults, whether small ones over which they have no repented at all, or great ones for which--even though they have repented over them--they did not undertake to show fruits of repentance: such souls, we believe, must be cleansed from this kind of sins, but not by means of some purgatorial fire or a definite punishment in some place (for this, as we have said, has not at all be handed down to us). But some must be cleansed in the very departure from the body, thanks only to fear, as St. Gregory the Dialogist literally shows; while others must be cleansed after the departure from the body, either while remaining in the same earthly place, before they come to worship God and are honored with the lot of the blessed, or--if their sins were more serious and bind them for a longer duration--they are kept in [hades], but not in order to remain forever in fire and torment, but as it were in prison and confinement under guard.

All such ones, we affirm, are helped by the prayers and Liturgies performed for them, with the cooperation of the Divine goodness and love for mankind. This Divine cooperation immediately disdains and remits some sins, those committed out of human weakness, as Dionysius the Great (the Areopagite) says in 'Reflections on the Mystery of Those Reposed in Faith' (In 'The Ecclesiastical Hierarchy, 7, 7); while other sins, after a certain time, by righteous judgments it either likewise releases and forgives--and that completely--or lightens the responsibility for them until that final judgment. And therefore we see no necessity whatever for any other punishment or for a cleansing fire; for some are cleansed by fear, while others are devoured by gnawings of conscience with more torment than any fire, and still others are cleansed only the the very terror before the Divine Glory and the uncertainty as to what the future will be...

And so, we intreat God and believe to deliver the departed from (eternal torment), and not from any other torment or fire apart from those torments and that fire which have been proclaimed to be forever. And that, moreover, the souls of the departed are delivered by prayers from confinement in [hades], as if from a certain prison, is testified, among many others, by Theophanes the Confessor, called the Branded. ...In one of the canons for the reposed he thus prays for them: 'Deliver, O Savior, Thy slaves who are in the [hades] of tears and sighing' (Octoechos, Saturday canon for the deposed, Tone 8, Canticle 6, Glory). - St. Mark of Ephesus, First Homily on the Refutation of the Latin Chapters Concerning Purgatorial Fire