Question

[JustAsIam77]

God does not want anyone to perish. But God did not create robots: He gave us free will to choose good or evil. He would prefer that we ALL chose the good. But many will not.

It is sad and distasteful to think any human will go to hell. Why He gives grace and mercy to any is amazing. Amazing grace. Those who do not receive the gift of His grace merely shows His perfect justice and will result in His ultimate Glory.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

It is sad and distasteful to think any human will go to hell. Why He gives grace and mercy to any is amazing. Amazing grace. Those who do not receive the gift of His grace merely shows His perfect justice and will result in His ultimate Glory.

Your post was sufficiently fuzzy enough to confuse me.
I can actually agree with it, although I suspect you did not mean it the way I am taking it.

 

[JustAsIam77]

Your post was sufficiently fuzzy enough to confuse me.
I can actually agree with it, although I suspect you did not mean it the way I am taking it.

God could save everyone if He chose to do so, no? But His justice and Glory would not be served by doing so.

 

[MrJim]

sobob...wonder where he ever ended up

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

God could save everyone if He chose to do so, no? But His justice and Glory would not be served by doing so.

This is true: Yes

I suspect that where we differ is on predestination. I believe that God calls ALL people to Him, and that it is the individual who chooses to respond or not respond to His grace, thus sealing their fate by their own choice.

 

[Floatingaxe]

- - But in the case of my hypothetical little Muslim boy: It is not his fault if he dies in some remote hut having never been exposed to the Gospel. But God will reveal at least SOME light to him, and if he responds correctly to whatever God reveals to Him, the child too may be saved. That is JUSTICE and MERCY - a concept that many people in this thread seem to have no grasp of.

I see arrogance in that last remark.



Any Christian who knows the Word knows that God addresses the matter of those who have not heard the name of Jesus. They are judged by what they know from what God from what he has revealed to them.

Romans 1:18-21
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

Romans 2:12-16
For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

 

[JustAsIam77]

This is true: Yes

I suspect that where we differ is on predestination. I believe that God calls ALL people to Him, and that it is the individual who chooses to respond or not respond to His grace, thus sealing their fate by their own choice.

But if God calls all people to Him, why don't they come? God is not a wavering, incapable entity. God is all powerful and fully capable of anything He desires.

God enabled Moses to part the Red sea. He raised Lazarus after he was dead. Would not that same God be able save lost sinners if it was His will to do so?

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

I see arrogance in that last remark.....

And I see arrogance in every one of your posts. Now what?

 

[Floatingaxe]

You are mistaken, of course. I'm not arrogant.

It is clear that posters in this thread are not unaware of God's Justice and Mercy and to discredit people like that is just wrong and arrogant.

Now what?

Calm down, and be respectful of the brethren.

 

[Tu Es Petrus]

But if God calls all people to Him, why don't they come?.....

Who knows why some people make the choices they make. It is hard for you and me to imagine such a thing because we do believe in God. But some people prefer to give themselves over to sin, perhaps out of weakness, perhaps because it is too difficult for them to be obedient, perhaps because they allow themselves to be influnced by the culture of death... ..who knows?

....God is not a wavering, incapable entity. God is all powerful and fully capable of anything He desires.

Well sure He is. But what good is love if it is forced? The only authentic love is love that is freely given. If we loved God because he made us love him, that would not be love. God is a good Father, and he wants us to love him for what he is. This is why he allows us to choose. He gave us dignity and freedom because he does love us so much.

....God enabled Moses to part the Red sea. He raised Lazarus after he was dead. Would not that same God be able save lost sinners if it was His will to do so?

God can do whatever he wants. But God does things in his own mysterious ways. Jesus could have appeared in a flash - POOF - and got busy with man's redemption. But he didn't. He chose to be born of a woman, grow up as a child, go through puberty, and walk around for 30 years before beginning his ministry. Why? Who knows. It makes no sense to me, but it made sense to him.

The Bible says that love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant. Love is all these things. But love is NOT forced. This is why God wants our FREE RESPONSE to his call.

 

[JustAsIam77]

Who knows why some people make the choices they make. It is hard for you and me to imagine such a thing because we do believe in God. But some people prefer to give themselves over to sin, perhaps out of weakness, perhaps because it is too difficult for them to be obedient, perhaps because they allow themselves to be influnced by the culture of death... ..who knows?


Well sure He is. But what good is love if it is forced? The only authentic love is love that is freely given. If we loved God because he made us love him, that would not be love. God is a good Father, and he wants us to love him for what he is. This is why he allows us to choose. He gave us dignity and freedom because he does love us so much.

God can do whatever he wants. But God does things in his own mysterious ways. Jesus could have appeared in a flash - POOF - and got busy with man's redemption. But he didn't. He chose to be born of a woman, grow up as a child, go through puberty, and walk around for 30 years before beginning his ministry. Why? Who knows. It makes no sense to me, but it made sense to him.

The Bible says that love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant. Love is all these things. But love is NOT forced. This is why God wants our FREE RESPONSE to his call.

God bestows the Holy Spirit to regenerate the nature of those of His choosing. We differ there.

We can agree that God will do whatever He pleases.

 

[Criada]

And you apparently do not read very well. I did not say that everyuone WILL be saved. The Bible says that God WANTS all to be save, not that all WILL be saved. God calls all men to Him: That is because God loves us. But it is up to US to hear the call and obey. Some will, and some won't.

Universalism is a false teaching. I am a Catholic!! We do not believe in Universalism. In my personal opinion, there will be more people in hell than in heaven. And many of those people in hell will be so-called Christians who talk about Jesus out of one side of their mouths while condemning their fellow man out of the other.

- - But in the case of my hypothetical little Muslim boy: It is not his fault if he dies in some remote hut having never been exposed to the Gospel. But God will reveal at least SOME light to him, and if he responds correctly to whatever God reveals to Him, the child too may be saved. That is JUSTICE and MERCY - a concept that many people in this thread seem to have no grasp of.

Apologies, I worded that badly. I know you are not a universalist, I was addressing JustAsIAm, who said:

If God wanted everyone to be saved it would be so.

which together with the scripture you quoted, makes universalism his only logical choice.