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sammydee

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Hi all. On another thread I posted the following statements:


Gracealone has asked me to post these in a question on this board so that christians can respond and ask me questions about them.


I ask "how can christians believe in God in light of these statements?"

Regards,
Sam
 

Key

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Sounds like a great idea.

I ask "how can christians believe in God in light of these statements?"

Regards,
Sam

That is simple, your premise is false.

and I for one, find a level of insult from this type of baseless and completely wrong outlook.

Now, that might have been a conclusion you have drawn based on the limited knowledge you have, but that just means, your knowledge is very limited, and your logic and rational "mind" are not indifferent, IE: You want this to be a conclusion, regardless of what the evidence says.

So, I would have to say, your issue is, your desire to make your opinion fact, with nothing to support it.

Maybe when you get a viable working premise, then we can discuss, right now, all I can offer you, is means to punch holes in your initial premise, which, since this is not a debate forum, I can not do, but can only answer your question.

The answer, again is, Because your Premise is Incorrect, that is why Rational and Logical people can believe in Christianity.


God Bless

Key
 
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gracealone

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HI Sam,
While it may be true that within the heart of every human being there is certainly a felt need for a relationship with their maker, this does not mean that Christians choose to believe in God blindly without very persuasive reasoning. There are many things that add up to persuade the Christian into choosing to believe in God as well as to believe that Christ is God incarnate. Things like the law of human nature, fulfilled prophecies concerning Christ, eyewitness testimony, historical record,the testimony of His very life and character and the claims that He made, the changed lives of those who enter into a personal relationship with Him, the testimony of the Holy Spirit, answered prayer, miracles etc. These are but a tiny smidgen of some of the things that when examined individually add up to make the case for Christ being the Son of the Living God. There's much, much more but not enough time or space here to cover it all.
But getting back to this felt need - don't you find it strange that it should be there in the first place? It would be like being thirsty when there is no such thing as water. Scripture says that "God has planted eternity in the hearts of mankind" and this is what motivates each individual to seek Him.
But beyond that. In your last statement you implied that Christians choose God only because it is a comforting option, which is of course a very presumptious statement unsupported by provable evidence since you cannot examine the hearts and minds of individuals. Only God, can do that. But what I find more interesting is the statement you made that says we choose religion instead of what is true. Now I'm only making a guess here about what you mean by true and you can correct me if I'm wrong. But I'm thinking that you are making an absolute claim that there is no God since you identify yourself as an atheist and since you used the word true. If this is the implication of your last statement then surely you must see that you have also put yourself into a position of having a kind of faith. Faith that there is no God. This is because to say that there is no God is actually an absolute denial of the absolute. In doing so you are presupposing that you have infinite knowledge. It is the same as if I was to say to you that there is no such thing in the entire universe of space as a black rock with white spots on it. I could never prove that statement and I can't make that statement unless I am claiming to have comprehensive knowledge of the entire universe. But the atheistic claim is that there is no one out there with infinite knowledge. So your claim ends up actually positing an infinite being while at the same time denying that an infinite being exists. So what I'm trying to say is this; In making the statement that there is no God aren't you also putting youself in the position of faith? And isn't that a position of believing something that you cannot absolutely prove but instead perhaps wish or hope to be true? Isn't this pre-supposition?
Yet this is your criticism of Christianity. That we believe in God by faith and only because it satisfies a "emotional need". You are criticising our faith position while holding to a faith position yourself.
But Sam, Faith in Christ is satisfying because it fills the void that I spoke of earlier. But it does far more than that. It brings coherency and meaning to everything in life. It gives a firm foundation on which to stand instead of "having your feet firmly planted in mid-air." (M. Muggeridge) It provides a point of reference by which to measure good and evil. To quote a famous rock band, (I can't remember the name of it at moment), "Knowledge is a deadly thing when no one sets the rules.. the fate of all mankind you see is then in the hand of fools." It certainly is a satisfying thing to be a Christian, I will most readily admit that. This is why Jesus referred to Himself as "the water of life", and also "The way,The truth and The life." But again why should the thirst in the soul be there in the first place if there is no such thing as the water to quench it?
Thanks so much for letting me respond to you Sam.
Respectfully,
Gracealone
 
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psalm112

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This is false. Now, where are you getting this? What facts are you using to back this up? I could turn it around and say atheism is just an excuse to avoid realtity and set yuor own moral standard so that you won't have to face judgement. You might find that wrong. But, if I backed it up with fact, you might find you agree with me after all. Therefore, unlike you, I will back up my statements with fact. Here's something I said under the "2 things troubling this agnostic" thread that disproves evolution. If you have more questions, ask me, and I will answer.

 
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psalm112

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Here's something else relevant I posted under "Criteria". Again, come to me if you have questions.

 
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psalm112

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Oh, and one more thing. Check out The Case For a Creator, The Case For Christ, and especially The Case For Faith all by Lee Strobel. They are great books in which the author intellectually and logically proves Christianity. You should be able to find them at your local library.
 
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psalm112

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Sorry to keep posting over and over, but I keep thinking of more things to say. And what I have to say is this:

God loves you more than you could ever imagine. He is the most real thing that could be. He is beyond our weak intellectual comprehension. How dare you deny Him for your own selfish gains? He loves you so much, He became mortal just to die for your sins. How dare you deny Him after that? Who are you anyway? In Job, God says:

Who are you to question God? Were you there in the earth's creation? Do you truly have the power to challenge God? How dare you even to think so! God said this to Job when Job was challenging Him without anything to back himself up? Then God broke through in a whirlwind and gave him a reality check. I hope this is helpful. God bless you!
 
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salida

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Sammydee-

Three of these statements are false.

Religion isn't based on "emotion" - but a real spiritual experience that can't be denied. It would be like denying your own name.

Arrive at a logical conclusion? I have - that is why I'm a christian. First spiritually and then intellectually. Read Evidence Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (it would stand up in a court of law concerning biblical facts) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest).

The comforting option is sometimes different from the truth-depends who you are talking to.
 
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MrDave

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Dear SammyDee:

I think the atheist belief system of all the belief systems is the most illogical and unreasonable belief system.

Here's why:

If what you believe is RIGHT, then mine is wrong BUT I end up exactly the same as you? No difference. Reasonable statement? Yes or NO.

If any of the other belief system but yours or mine is RIGHT, then again you and I end up exactly the same. No difference. Reasonable statement? Yes or No.

So far you and I are in the same boat.

BUT NOW:

If what I believe is RIGHT then all others are WRONG. I know what my end result will be and I know what your end result will be. I definitely like my end result better then I like yours.

The Bible says "Come now, let us reason together..."

So who's the one not using "logic and reason"? To be an atheist or agnostic, is to not even be in the game.

Your future is in dire straits if: Orthodox Jews or Islam or Christianity or Jehovah's Witness or Mormon's or any other belief system with a GOOD AND BAD scenario is true.

Reason and logic would lead a person to consider any other option better then the one with NO OPTIONS.

An atheist is like the people on the Titantic that believed the Titantic could not sink, so did not even try to get into a life boat, even after the ice berg struck.

A Christian is a person on the Titantic that not only believes the Titantic can sink, but that it will sink and that only one lifeboat will float and gets in that lifeboat before the iceberg hits. Then the Christian tries to get you to join him in that same lifeboat while there is still time.

An atheist or agnostic is a person standing on the deck of the Titantic trying to convince everyone else to get out of the lifeboats!!!!

I should choose your option and give up mine??? Nah,

DECISION DETERMINES DESTINY
 
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TwinCrier

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sammydee, seeing as you're young, have you ever had an adult tell you that what you feel isn't real? Tell you it's not love, just a crush, tell you you're not hurting when you're in pain, etc? Annoying isn't it. How do they know what's inside of you? That's how Christians feel. God is real. We know He exists, we have a personal relationship with Him. Having a non-believer claim God is only out imaginary friend doesn't make His existence less real to us. There isn't anything an atheist teen say write that will make me turn from what I know. You would have as much luck convincing me that I don't like chocolate. You haven't experienced God yet, maybe you never will, maybe you don't want to.
 
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Divinah

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You know...the thing with you atheists is... you
"dont believe" with a little too much zeal.

If I did not believe in something, I don't know that I would care if anyone else did or not...Nor would I desire they know that I don't (and all the intricate dynamics that thereinlie), Nor would I want to know what they think about my disbelief and debate it endlessly online.

MY CONCLUSION, Mr. Scientific Facts:
THOU DOEST PROTEST TOO MUCH!

Why not go to the source...Ask God.
Seek him daily in prayer and word, and he'll
reveal himself to you, alright.

Y'know, your already here for a reason, don't ya?

Cause, with your vast resource of information and knowledge surpassing what any Christian might possess, why would you lower yourself to argue with them all day. Well, well well...something to think about, huh?

Don't get mad...I do this to everyone and trust me I am being very kind...too many people have been telling me I'm mean and that's JUST not true.

I am a demonslaying, meateating Christian...so, what's a little atheist, but lunch?

AhaHaHA, just kidding...
Okay, that was totally meant in humor, hope you take it for the joke it is.

GOD BLESS and I will pray for you!

 
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