Question

[TrustAndObey]

Well I tried looking them all up but you get all kinds of crazy lists. I can't find one that lists all the denominations that keep the 4th commandment.

 

[goofy1]

Well I tried looking them all up but you get all kinds of crazy lists. I can't find one that lists all the denominations that keep the 4th commandment.

Well, any one? would you help me please?

 

[HoneyDew]

I think I know what you mean. There are several Sabbatarian groups in existence. Try googling that. One well known group are the Seventh-day Baptists from whom the Seventh-day Adventists got the truth about the Sabbath.

You would think I would have known that little piece of trivia. I had no idea. That is interesting and good to know.

 

[Sophia7]

The Adventist church does not teach that Adventists are the only ones who will be in heaven. There are some individual members who seem to believe that. They feel sorry for those supposedly ignorant people who don't know about the Sabbath and who just rely on their pastors to tell them what the Bible says. Unfortunately, there are plenty of poor ignorant Adventists who don't read the Bible and who rely on their pastors to interpret it. I have even met some who actually believe that people who go to church on Sunday do know about the Sabbath but have chosen to reject it and that Sunday-keeping pastors are purposely misleading their parishioners. This is more prevalent among older members, though, and not so common anymore. Officially, the church does not subscribe to such views, and pastors do not preach this.

 

[jonno]

The Adventist church does not teach that Adventists are the only ones who will be in heaven. There are some individual members who seem to believe that. They feel sorry for those supposedly ignorant people who don't know about the Sabbath and who just rely on their pastors to tell them what the Bible says. Unfortunately, there are plenty of poor ignorant Adventists who don't read the Bible and who rely on their pastors to interpret it. I have even met some who actually believe that people who go to church on Sunday do know about the Sabbath but have chosen to reject it and that Sunday-keeping pastors are purposely misleading their parishioners. This is more prevalent among older members, though, and not so common anymore. Officially, the church does not subscribe to such views, and pastors do not preach this.

 

[Im_A]

so this is the jist i'm getting (correct me if i'm wrong.)


all the controversy is over a day in the calendar? especially when we use a different calendar and use of time throughout the day, than the Jewish people did. i hope this is not the case, because that sounds rather petty. here's an interesting sit on the sabbath.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath#Sunday_vs_Saturday

there are non-sda's that hold to annihalationism, so that isn't a factor in my opinion, for it's an old/ancient belief anyways.

so as far as i can tell, this is the only "controversial" issue, and i'm pretty shocked to say the least. God Bless!<><

 

[tall73]

there are non-sda's that hold to annihalationism, so that isn't a factor in my opinion, for it's an old/ancient belief anyways.

This statement is far from true actually.

Check out this book by an evangelical, and notice the comments by the renown (and now dead) F.F. Bruce.

There are many evangelicals who hold this view, and it is actually picking up steam.

 

[Im_A]

This statement is far from true actually.

Check out this book by an evangelical, and notice the comments by the renown (and now dead) F.F. Bruce.

There are many evangelicals who hold this view, and it is actually picking up steam.

your basically saying what i said now i didn't know it was picking up steam again or anything. that's fine by me, even though i don't hold to that belief.

 

[tall73]

hehe, misread it. I am saying the same. Sorry.

 

[Im_A]

hehe, misread it. I am saying the same. Sorry.

haha, no problem bro

 

[Sophia7]

all the controversy is over a day in the calendar? especially when we use a different calendar and use of time throughout the day, than the Jewish people did. i hope this is not the case, because that sounds rather petty.

The wikipedia reference actually did a pretty good job of explaining a lot of the issues involved in the Sabbath/Sunday controversy.

One thing I would add is that the Jews have observed the same days of the week as everyone else throughout history. They might have had different names for months and different numbers of days in the months, but the days of the week have not changed. Also, people often cite the change from the Julian calendar to Gregorian calendar in 1582 as a reason that we can't be sure when the Sabbath really is. However, when the calendars were changed (because the Julian calendar had become out of sync with the solar year as a result of too many leap years), ten days were dropped from the month of October 1582. Thus, the date went from Thursday, October 4, 1582, to Friday, October 15, 1582. There was no change in the days of the week.

 

[payattention]

Some things bear repetition. LOL

 

[Im_A]

The wikipedia reference actually did a pretty good job of explaining a lot of the issues involved in the Sabbath/Sunday controversy.

One thing I would add is that the Jews have observed the same days of the week as everyone else throughout history. They might have had different names for months and different numbers of days in the months, but the days of the week have not changed. Also, people often cite the change from the Julian calendar to Gregorian calendar in 1582 as a reason that we can't be sure when the Sabbath really is. However, when the calendars were changed (because the Julian calendar had become out of sync with the solar year as a result of too many leap years), ten days were dropped from the month of October 1582. Thus, the date went from Thursday, October 4, 1582, to Friday, October 15, 1582. There was no change in the days of the week.

first off do you have proof of this? and two, for the sabbath to be the seventh day, that means their week started on sunday correct.

and then looking at the point of when the new day starts. now i don't know too many people that go on a time schedule of the new day begins when the sun sets personally

 

[Sophia7]

first off do you have proof of this? and two, for the sabbath to be the seventh day, that means their week started on sunday correct.

and then looking at the point of when the new day starts. now i don't know too many people that go on a time schedule of the new day begins when the sun sets personally

Ok, I was going to post a link, but I don't have enough posts yet, so for evidence I'll have to refer you to Google, where you can do a search for "NASA calendar dates Gregorian" or similar keywords. This will take you to the NASA site, which explains how the calendar change from Julian to Gregorian worked.

And, yes, the first day of the week for Jews was Sunday (what the Bible calls "the first day"), just as it is now. The last time I checked my calendar, the first day of the week was Sunday. Whether or not the day starts at sundown, the days of the week are still the same.

 

[Sophia7]

You might also check out Wikipedia on the subject of the Gregorian calendar.

Also, the following is a quote from the US Naval Observatory site, which you can also look up on Google or another search engine (since I can't list links).

Edit (now that I can post links): Link to USNO site: http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/JulianDate.html

This application assumes that the changeover from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar occurred in October of 1582, according to the scheme instituted by Pope Gregory XIII. Specifically, for dates on or before 4 October 1582, the Julian calendar is used; for dates on or after 15 October 1582, the Gregorian calendar is used. Thus, there is a ten-day gap in calendar dates, but no discontinuity in Julian dates or days of the week: 4 October 1582 (Julian) is a Thursday, which begins at JD 2299159.5; and 15 October 1582 (Gregorian) is a Friday, which begins at JD 2299160.5. The omission of ten days of calendar dates was necessitated by the astronomical error built up by the Julian calendar over its many centuries of use, due to its too-frequent leap years.

 

[payattention]

Well, any one? would you help me please?

This site refers to the Directory of the Bible Sabbath Association that list over 400 Sabbatarian Groups and 1600 congregations.

 

[Im_A]

Ok, I was going to post a link, but I don't have enough posts yet, so for evidence I'll have to refer you to Google, where you can do a search for "NASA calendar dates Gregorian" or similar keywords. This will take you to the NASA site, which explains how the calendar change from Julian to Gregorian worked.

And, yes, the first day of the week for Jews was Sunday (what the Bible calls "the first day"), just as it is now. The last time I checked my calendar, the first day of the week was Sunday. Whether or not the day starts at sundown, the days of the week are still the same.

well if the sabbath is to take a break from work on the seventh day, our work week always begins on monday. at least they do here in Ohio. now i work 3rds, and my schedule is a bit screwy

how is it the same? for the Jews, the next day started when the sun went down. for us, it's midnight. so do the SDA's have services at sundown or after midnight on friday night?

 

[Sophia7]

It doesn't matter when your work week begins. The calendar is still the same. Most traditional day jobs include two days off for the weekend, but that doesn't mean there are two Sabbaths. My point was that the days of the week have not changed throughout history, regardless of whether some people are subject to unconventional work schedules.

 

[Im_A]

It doesn't matter when your work week begins. The calendar is still the same. Most traditional day jobs include two days off for the weekend, but that doesn't mean there are two Sabbaths. My point was that the days of the week have not changed throughout history, regardless of whether some people are subject to unconventional work schedules.

i understand that sophia.

but imagine a jewish person, back in these times. they worked sunday through friday, off saturday. their days began when evening came, not when 12am came. so thus their sabbath started that evening correct? i mean if all the historical accounts of the way time was schedule back then, that seems to be the only logical outcome. sabbath would be from that evening, till the next evening, and thus the work week would begin again on sunday (ie what we would call saturday evening.)

now to contrast with us.

even the unconventional work schedule (as mine is), we work monday through friday, and have two days off. your right, that's not saying there's two sabbaths. i was not trying to imply that by any means. but many people see the new day starting at 12am/midnight, or when they wake up, thus the new day starts for us, when the sun comes up. now that's a big change. so people go to church sunday morning, which according to our schedule, that'd be the seventh day, and the next day when the sun comes up, the new day has began.

this here that i've said, is all that i was trying to say. i'm not trying to disprove anything about SDA. God Bless you! <><

p.s. now after all of this, i hope there is more reasons why shown that this denomination is such a controversial denomination amongst us Christians. i didn't mean to get debating over one issue here

 

[Sophia7]

Actually, some Seventh-day Adventists do have services around sunset on Friday evening and again on Saturday evening at sunset, in addition to the regular Saturday morning worship program. They call such evening services "vespers."

Sabbatarians have historically observed Sabbath from sunset to sunset, encompassing the seventh day of the week, Saturday. This is because the creation account in Genesis, where the Sabbath is first made holy by God, says that "the evening and morning were the first day," etc., meaning that the day began with the evening. The days of the week have always been in the same progression, and the seventh-day Sabbath has always encompassed what we call "Saturday," regardless of whether days were considered to have started at sundown or midnight.