PART 1
Dispy said:
Give me one good reason that God had to raise up Paul when He had already commissioned 12 to go to all the world.
billychum said:
I don't have a good reason to give you. But just because I don't, doesn't automatically leave room for the assumption that God had to begin all over with a brand new minister and a brand new gospel. Unless of course you can show me in scripture where God, Jesus, Paul or anyone else does say such a thing. And no need to bother with those buzz words like...my gospel, mystery, rightly dividing, etc. Now I realize that we have to draw, a certain amount of things from scripture but surely if something of the doctrinal magnitude, that you are suggesting, had occured we would have some major scriptural support. I believe that I'm a dispesationalist on a basic level, such as drawing a distinction between Israel and the church. But it's my opinion that what you are suggesting goes a little to far with divisions. But if you can come up with something a little more solid, then I'm listening. And whether we agree or not I'm always thankful for the views of yours and others that post here. It's been most educational.
Billy <><
Billy, I knew before hand that you would not be able to. But don't feel bad. The vast majority of those who do not understand the mid-Acts dispensational position say the same thing. The rest give me a reply that is based on assumption, or taking Scripture out of context.
As you know, we have an
awesome God. He is the Alpha and the Omega. He knew/knows the beginning from the end. Read Isaiah 14:12 - 15. He knew even before creation what Lucifer (satan) would attempt to do. Therefore, God had devised a plan that would defeat satan. Yes, God allowed satan to think his plan would be successful, but God had His secret counter-attack plan to defeat satan's plan.
God's plan to defeat satan was the Cross. From Adam, to Paul, we cannot find the purpose of the Cross. From hindsight we can now see the Cross, and its purpose, but it was hid in "shadows" and "types" in the OT and Gospels. We can now understand what Paul meand when he wrote in 1 Cor. 2:7 - 8 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world (before creation) unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they know it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
As you no doubt already know, satan tried to kill Jesus from the time He was a baby. He knew who Jesus was, and tried his best to get rid of Him. He thought he was finally successful when he got Jesus on the Cross. However, he didn't know that his success would also spell his doom. It is through Paul that God revealed His secret (mystery), and who gives us our instructions in righteous for this age. God
NEVER had a Plan "B" to have to fall back on. He had only one plan from the beginning.
The following is from an Article by Tracy Plessinger titled:
"The Bible's Most Misunderstood Verse" by Tracy Plessinger. The entire article can be found at:
http://www.gracealive.us/misunderstood.html
>SNIP<
God' Eternal Unchanging Plan
Scripture makes very clear that God has only ever had one plan. That plan has been in effect since before the world began and will be fulfilled only after time is no more, in the dispensation of the fulness of time.
Paul, a servand of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; In hope of eternal life, which God, that connot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:1,2
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath pruposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: Ephesians 1:9,10.
The heart of this plan is seen in the passage from Ephesians quoted absove. God's eternal purpose and plan is to glorify His son, Jesus Christ, to
"gather together in one all things in Christ". This eternal purpose can also be seen in Paul's letter to the church at Philippi.
Wherefore God also had highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of thing in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth: And that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Chris is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Philippians 2:9-11.
Clearly, God's eternal purpose is to have all creatures glorify the Son, Jesus Christ, Which in turns brings honor to the Father. It is also clear from two of the passages quoted above that this one eternal purpose of God is to be carried out in two different locations, on earth and in heaven.
There is however, an impediament to God's plan. There is one who desires to usurp the rightful position of Christ as the one that is glorified by heaven and earth. The being who desires to have the honor and glory that belong to Christ is Satan. In the book of Isaiah, we read of his selfish desire.
For thou [Lucifer] hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. Isaiah 14:13,14.
It is very significant that Satan uses a specific title of God when he sets out on this course of rebellion. He refers to God as,
"the most high". That title is a title that relates specifically to God's ownership of heaven and earth. This can be seen as we look at the first time that that title is used in Scripture.
And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:...And Abram said to the king of Sodom, I have lift up mine hand unto the Lord, the most high God, the possessor of heaven and earth, Genesis 14:19,22.
What we are read in scripture, from Genesis to Revelation, is an account of Satan's attempt to become the possessor of heaven and earth, to replace Jesus Christ as the ruler of the universe. We also learn of God's counterattack and that God's plan, in the end, will overcome Satan's plan. In the end, Jesus Christ will alone be glorified in heaven and earth.
Dispensational Bible study simply acknowledges the fact that Satan has attacked God's authority on two fronts, the heaven and the earth, and that God will repel that attack and be victorious on those same two fronts. The first person to rightly divide the Word of Truth was not some modern-day dispensationalist. It was God.
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. Genesis 1:1
God presents His creative act as an act that produced a divided universe, a universe that consists of two parts, the heaven, and the earth. In order to fully understand God's plan we must understand how that plan will be carried out in both of these areas.
God Plan on the earth
As we continue in the first chapter of the book of Genesis, we immediately see where God's plan is focused initially.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon theface of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon theface of the waters. Genesis 1:2
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the foul of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Genesis 1:28
And God said, Let there be lingths in the firmanent of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for light in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. Genesis 1:14,15
It is clear that the creation described in Genesis 1 is focused exclusively on the earth. It is the earth that is said to be
"without form, and void". It is the earth that man is told to
"replenish" and
"subdue", Even the light that God created in heaven were for the purpose of giving light
"upon the earth."
After the flood, God gave similar instructions to Noah and his sons.
And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. Genesis 9:1
With the setting aside of Abram to begin the formation of the nation Israel we see that the focus was still on the earth.
The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them: and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. Isaiah 35:1
Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee, For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. and the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings ot the brightness of thy shining. Isaiah 60:1-3
Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold broken to peices together and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth....And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. Daniel 2:35-44
Notice that Isaiah points to the wonderful utopian conditions on the renewed earth and how the Gentile nations will flow into that blessing. Daniel emphasizes the fact that the
[/b]"God of heaven"[/b] will establish a kingdom that fill
"the whole earth". These passages are typical of the message that the prophets brought to the nation Israel. They were continuing God's focus on reestablishing His aughority on the earthly part of His creation.
Christ was presented to Israel as the rightful heir to the earthly throne of David.
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favor with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: and he shall reigh over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. Luke 1:30-33
Christ taught His disciples to pray for the kingdom to come to the earth.
Afther this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. Matthew 6:9,10
The apostles tied their message and its returning, triumphant Messiah to the fulfillment of the prophetic Scriptures.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ which before was preached unot you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the Mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began. Acts 3:19-21.
All of the facts above show us that during the time frame covered from Genesis 1:2 to Acts 9, focus of God's message was on the earth.
>end part 1<
God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!
