Question: Why Is Pence Better For America?

[mark46]

Many Democrats seem to be focused more on impeachment than on the legislative agenda. Of course, this is very unlikely to happen until after the 2018 elections. Much will happen in Congress before the end of the year.

And let's say it COULD happen in the next couple of months. Would we all really be better off with Pence as president? And after an impeachment, would anyone work together? Of course not.

And just BTW, Trump is much more likely than Pence to work with Democrats and get laws passed.
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BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR

1) We have a very good chance to get DACA legislation passed in Nov or Dec. This will be a Democratic requirement for a debt ceiling increase. Of course, a couple of billion of border control spending will also be in this legislation or in the budget compromise. I would note this "down payment" is simply the completion of projects started under Obama.

2) A budget or a CR will be passed that includes lots more money for hurricane relief, and for increases in spending for military training and other military spending. Almost all of Trump's Spring wish list of decreases will be gone.

3) Tax reform might even pass. There would be NO INCOME TAX RELIEF (or even an increase) for the richest 1%. And there would be some decreases for the middle class and even the working poor. Democratic votes are needed for corporate tax changes, and the above is their minimum requirements.

Trump really wants much needed changes to corporate taxes. The rates need to be decreased. Deductions need to be taken away. Incentives need to be there to bring back capital to the US. He has promised middle class tax reductions. He will need to compromise and have no increase tax cuts for the top brackets.

 

[sfs]

Would we all really be better off with Pence as president?

Pence offers a higher probability of effectively implementing bad policies, while Trump offers a higher probability of destroying the economy, the country or the world in a fit of pique or out of sheer stupidity. Your choice.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Pence is way right of Trump. I don't think the "impeach Trump" crowd thought this through.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Pence is way right of Trump. I don't think the "impeach Trump crowd thought this through.

Some liberal people think about it. Some think Trump, Pence and Paul needs to go. Personally, I think the more the Republicans change things, start more wars The better chance the democrats in 3 to 8 years.

 

[Halbhh]

Many Democrats seem to be focused more on impeachment than on the legislative agenda. Of course, this is very unlikely to happen until after the 2018 elections. Much will happen in Congress before the end of the year.

And let's say it COULD happen in the next couple of months. Would we all really be better off with Pence as president? And after an impeachment, would anyone work together? Of course not.

And just BTW, Trump is much more likely than Pence to work with Democrats and get laws passed.
============================
BEFORE THE END OF THE YEAR

1) We have a very good chance to get DACA legislation passed in Nov or Dec. This will be a Democratic requirement for a debt ceiling increase. Of course, a couple of billion of border control spending will also be in this legislation or in the budget compromise. I would note this "down payment" is simply the completion of projects started under Obama.

2) A budget or a CR will be passed that includes lots more money for hurricane relief, and for increases in spending for military training and other military spending. Almost all of Trump's Spring wish list of decreases will be gone.

3) Tax reform might even pass. There would be NO INCOME TAX RELIEF (or even an increase) for the richest 1%. And there would be some decreases for the middle class and even the working poor. Democratic votes are needed for corporate tax changes, and the above is their minimum requirements.

Trump really wants much needed changes to corporate taxes. The rates need to be decreased. Deductions need to be taken away. Incentives need to be there to bring back capital to the US. He has promised middle class tax reductions. He will need to compromise and have no increase tax cuts for the top brackets.

That's a nice list of things that could happen, but about #3, I wonder if Trump can swallow not having even more $$$ in his own pocket, forgoing another generous tax decrease for the top 1% (and tippity top 0.1%) for the good of the country. Could be he'd think that 'isn't good enough'. I'd like Trump to prove that wrong, and would be delighted if he did.....

 

[mark kennedy]

Pence knows how to do what Trump is trying to do, personally I'm glad he is not President. With deregulation and tax reform being such imminent threats to our economy I'm relived Trump is a lame duck so early in his administration. The situation would be very different with Pence, the budget debate will be very interesting I'm sure.

 

[mark46]

Pence offers a higher probability of effectively implementing bad policies, while Trump offers a higher probability of destroying the economy, the country or the world in a fit of pique or out of sheer stupidity. Your choice.

destroying the economy?

There are many things that Trump has done wrong and will do wrong. "Destroying the economy" is NOT one of them. Personally, I think it is a bit delusional to believe that our economy would be better if Hillary had been elected. Now, I do believe that we need comic help for the working poor and the middle class. Again, I think this more likely with Trump, than with Pence or Clinton.

 

[sfs]

destroying the economy?

Didn't say it was likely, but if he gets a bee in his bonnet, there's no telling what he might do.

Now, I do believe that we need comic help for the working poor and the middle class. Again, I think this more likely with Trump, than with Pence or Clinton.

I think it's more likely that unicorns will spring full-grown from Trump's eyebrows than that the working poor will get help from this Congress and President.

 

[mark46]

My guess is that Trump pays very little income tax, so lowering the income tax rates wouldn't help him much. It is the lowering of corporate rates that would help him the most personally, and, of course, help all the family businesses.

That's a nice list of things that could happen, but about #3, I wonder if Trump can swallow not having even more $$$ in his own pocket, forgoing another generous tax decrease for the top 1% (and tippity top 0.1%) for the good of the country. Could be he'd think that 'isn't good enough'. I'd like Trump to prove that wrong, and would be delighted if he did.....

 

[cow451]

I don't think Pence is better policy wise but he can talk in complete sentences and appears to be a decent human being.

Impeachment would stain him as Nixon's almost impeachment stained Gerald Ford.

 

[mark46]

Didn't say it was likely, but if he gets a bee in his bonnet, there's no telling what he might do.

I think it's more likely that unicorns will spring full-grown from Trump's eyebrows than that the working poor will get help from this Congress and President.

1) The "bee in Trump's bonnet" is to decrease corporate tax rates.

2) He needs Democratic votes.

3) Schumer and Pelosi will ask for something in trade, likely tax breaks fro the working poor.

4) Trump might INDEED accept this deal. He might accept this deal because he and his family would gain billions over the next decade. So, yes, he might just accept tax reductions for the working poor, that actually might help Republicans gain a few votes from working class voters.

 

[mark46]

I don't think Pence is better policy wise but he can talk in complete sentences and appears to be a decent human being.

Impeachment would stain him as Nixon's almost impeachment stained Gerald Ford.

Pence is more competent and could get Congressional Republicans to pass very conservative policies. Sure, he is a more decent human being than Trump. That doesn't mean that I would want him as president. I would say that Cruz is also a more decent human being. That doesn't mean that I would want him as president.

For me, the bottom line is that the working poor and the middle class are much more likely to be helped by Trump, or at least not hurt as badly.
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TO BE CLEAR
Pence or Cruz would have had little problem getting Obamacare repealed on DAY 1, or at least in the first month.

Pence pr Cruz would be able to get a tax cut for the rich passed by the Republican Congress.

 

[wing2000]

With Pence, I would not have to wonder if the POTUS, in a fit of rage, will start a nuclear war.

 

[sfs]

1) The "bee in Trump's bonnet" is to decrease corporate tax rates.

Generally, the bee in Trump's bonnet is dominance over just about everyone. When he feels slighted he tends to lash out. That's what I'm concerned about, not whatever vague policy ideas he's thinking of.

2) He needs Democratic votes.

He needs Republican votes even more. Without the Republican congressional buy-in, nothing will be passed.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

No, he would not be better for America but the important point is he wouldn't be worse. I think Trump's worst quality is he's just not respectable.

With Pence I would have a President I no doubt disagree with, but I have nothing to hold against him in terms of character and behavior. He is resoundingly a better person and more deserving of the honor of being called President than Trump could ever hope to be.

 

[mark46]

He needs Republican votes even more. Without the Republican congressional buy-in, nothing will be passed.

In the last deal, Ryan declared just how bad the deal was, and then he had to support it. And so it will be in Nov and Dec. If deals are made, enough Republicans will support them to have the bill passed. However, with Republicans votes alone, nothing will pass, as everyone has found out.

 

[mark46]

No, he would not be better for America but the important point is he wouldn't be worse. I think Trump's worst quality is he's just not respectable.

With Pence I would have a President I no doubt disagree with, but I have nothing to hold against him in terms of character and behavior. He is resoundingly a better person and more deserving of the honor of being called President than Trump could ever hope to be.

I truly don't understand.

Some important good legislation might be passed with Trump making deals with the Democrats.

With Pence as president, there would be no negotiation. The only legislation passed would be that passed with all Republican votes.

With Pence, we'd have someone we could respect, but nothing will be passed. Pence is very, very far right. He is no Reagan and no Bush.

 

[dgiharris]

Many Democrats seem to be focused more on impeachment than on the legislative agenda.......
And let's say it COULD happen in the next couple of months. Would we all really be better off with Pence as president? And after an impeachment, would anyone work together? Of course not.
.....

It is my sincere and honest belief from the bottom of my heart that Trump is not mentally fit.

I believe he is sane. However, his ego, narcissism and id reminds me more of a 13-yr old than a 70-something year old man.

Beyond his ego and narcissism problems, he strikes me as a man so far out of his depth he might as well be swimming in the middle of the Pacific Ocean. But what scares me even more is that he is UNAWARE he is out of his depth.

It's like a undergrad med student thinking he can do brain surgery just because he saw an episode of Grey's Anatomy last night...

You are absolutely right, Trump's agenda and legislation is left of Pence's and Dems "should" be happy Trump is President instead of Pence. however, Trump imho is not mentally equip to handle the rigors of the White House. Reports are that he can't be bothered to sit through intel briefings at anywhere near the pace and frequency his predecessors could. He also gets the bulk of his information from cable News for crying out loud. He can't even align with his own staff when they are spinning stories and polishing turds which is politics 101.

I know it is a romantic notion to have "one of us" in the White House. A straight shooter, someone who isn't PC and can tell it like it is... But the reality is that Presidential level politics is as complex as brain surgery. You wouldn't want an amateur cutting into your skull. So why do we want an Amateur in the White House?

Now don't get me wrong, there are plenty of CEO's without political experience that would have made phenomenal Presidents. It's just that Trump is not one of them. And I was hoping he was. If you read my November/December posts you will see I was "hoping" and "rooting" for Trump to succeed. Yet it didn't take me long to realize it was a lost cause.

I disagree with Pence about pretty much everything. But at the very least, he is mentally competent and can handle the rigors of Presidential level politics...

 

[Halbhh]

My guess is that Trump pays very little income tax, so lowering the income tax rates wouldn't help him much. It is the lowering of corporate rates that would help him the most personally, and, of course, help all the family businesses.

I think that's generally been the case, but going forward in time, he'd not likely be able to continue to have gigantic offsets (losses to count) against business income as before (just a guess), and then would like the top rate to be lower. Again just a guess also, and I'd like to be wrong on it. Now, having said all of that, I do think the business income rate should be down around 20%, because we should be on a level playing field with our competitors in other countries. The real elephant in the room is such things as hedge fund managers making millions and paying a lower rate than a lot of families that only make $100K. That's one prominent example of a whole range of tax avoidance. We need of course both lower rates and ending all the endless effectively permanent loopholes.

 

[Rion]

Some liberal people think about it. Some think Trump, Pence and Paul needs to go. Personally, I think the more the Republicans change things, start more wars The better chance the democrats in 3 to 8 years.