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Oh, I agree completely that it contains mysteries upon mysteries.
But this is different than the way some approach the scriptures as a coded book, where a bit from one book is paired with a bit from another written hundreds of years later and has no direct relationship to the first at all, and then those are paired with a bit from another written hundreds of years later than that.
There is nothing that legitimizes such a practice. It only results in error and confusion, for it does violence to the word of God.
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If it doesn't make sense then you are basically saying that the bible doesn't make sense and is heretical and teaching false doctrine when it clearly and uniquivocably states that Christ is reigning over the kings of the earth NOW! - and that started before John wrote those words at the end of the 1st century!
Let's look since everyone in the anti-amillenial camp is ignoring this bit of evidence:
Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
These are things Jesus is now, and was then at the time John wrote those words. Ruler over the kings of the earth.
This is not something that is yet to be accomplished. It iwas then and it is now. This makes the 1000 years spoken of later a present reality - and it is not about a literal 1000 years, as 1000 is never used literally in the bible once. It means a very long time and has now lasted for almost 2000 years.
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My post was all Gods Word with a few short sentences from me, for instance:
"Has there ever been a time when the nations were not deceived for 1000 years."
Revelation 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
No symbolism there so it's literal, and will happen in the mill. as the Word says.
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I guess the word "nations" can't possibly be symbolic when used in the most symbolic book of the bible . . .
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Ben12
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Amen.Oh, I agree completely that it contains mysteries upon mysteries.
But this is different than the way some approach the scriptures as a coded book, where a bit from one book is paired with a bit from another written hundreds of years later and has no direct relationship to the first at all, and then those are paired with a bit from another written hundreds of years later than that.
There is nothing that legitimizes such a practice. It only results in error and confusion, for it does violence to the word of God.
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Ben12
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I guess the word "nations" can't possibly be symbolic when used in the most symbolic book of the bible . . .
Pro. 25: 2
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter, But the glory of kings is to search out a matter
Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets:
After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house;
I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new
So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to,
All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing.
"God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this
Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,
Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord- even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,
Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord.
This means all the non-Jews who belong to me.
The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' -(Amos 9:11,12)
NT:2645
kataloipos (residue: kat-al'-oy-pos); from NT:2596 and NT:3062; left down (behind), i.e remaining (plural the rest):
KJV - residue.
So often the Greek language can have multiple meaning; I am sure we have some Greek Scholars here?
Acts 15: 13-18 (Message) James broke the silence. "Friends, listen. Simeon has told us the story of how God at the very outset made sure that racial outsiders were included. This is in perfect agreement with the words of the prophets:
After this, I'm coming back; I'll rebuild David's ruined house;
I'll put all the pieces together again; I'll make it look like new
So outsiders who seek will find, so they'll have a place to come to,
All the pagan peoples included in what I'm doing.
"God said it and now he's doing it. It's no afterthought; he's always known he would do this
Acts 15: (Amp) 17So that the rest of men may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles upon whom My name has been invoked,
Acts 15: (HCSB) 17 so that those who are left of mankind may seek the Lord— even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, says the Lord who does these things,
Acts 15: 17 (NIRV) Then the rest of the people can look to the Lord.
This means all the non-Jews who belong to me.
The Lord says this. He is the one who does these things.' —(Amos 9:11,12)
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johnd
Well-Known Member
Man cannot count...
This is not about a cashier counting back your change at the register. But then again it is...
As adept as we have become in math and science (thanks to the contributions of Christian scientists and mathematicians who having discovered there are absolutes in the universe; based on the word of God, proceeded to enable mankind to put a lunar lander within a few miles of its target on the moon.... and interceptor satellites to rendezvous with comets...
But...
Man cannot count well by nature. From earliest time man had miscounted the age of the antediluvians (who lived at most 900 years or so) to 27000 in some cases. Human legends not the Bible of course.
Even the Birth of Christ (B.C.) is some 3 and a half to 7 years off. In the 1700's various calendar corrections had to be made in the lifetime of America's founding fathers (hence the reference to the new or old calendar reckoning in writings of the time).
Today even with our super computers and brilliant mathematical minds we cannot determine the actual age of the universe nor its distances (there are only suppositional projections based on limited cosmological triangulation aided by theories of dopler red shift blue shift readings). Dig DEEPLY into what you believe, scientist lurkers, and you'll find somewhere in some dusty text book where it is written that what you were brain washed to believe was rock solid fact was mere speculation and theory...
And going back to B.C. even with all of our mathematical prowess we still cannot pin down what year the Messiah was crucified in. 30 AD, 32 AD... ?
So here we are facing a dilemma of time called the millennium. The Greek phrase used to indicate 1000 could be as specific as 999 years plus 1 or it can mean a large number of years without specificity like the more modern use of the term million. "I feel like I've waited a million years to use the wash room in a house filled with sisters." Or "Not in a million years will you guess who I saw today..."
The word million actually has its origin in indeterminate thousands. In fact a million is a thousand thousand.
Now we come to the doctrine of the millennium.
Another thing we must be careful of is in our interpretation of the Bible not to confuse metaphor with the literal. When Jesus Christ was on the foal of the donkey on 10 Nisan 30 AD (it may have been 32 AD but it was precisely 183,880 days after the pronouncement of Artaxerxes Longimanus to rebuild Jerusalem as Daniel 9 predicted to the day) that was to be taken literally and generally was not (see Luke 19:41-44).
When theologians to determine if the Church will go through the 70th Week of Daniel they misinterpret the 7 year period as one great tribulation instead of two 3.5 year tribulations the latter of the two being the infamous great tribulation.
Making the rapture a single event Pre-Great Tribulation, Mid-70th Week of Daniel, Post-believers' tribulation which also defines who the "saints" of Revelation really are (see Revelation 13:5-10)...
So, does the millennial reign from Jerusalem mean Jesus will literally physically be in the city Jerusalem ruling the world from there? Or does it mean the kingdom of Christ will advance from there unto the uttermost parts of the world?
1 Peter 2:3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
4 As you come to him, the living Stonerejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For in Scripture it says: See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,
8 and, A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. They stumble because they disobey the messagewhich is also what they were destined for.
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Some things to think about.
This is not about a cashier counting back your change at the register. But then again it is...
As adept as we have become in math and science (thanks to the contributions of Christian scientists and mathematicians who having discovered there are absolutes in the universe; based on the word of God, proceeded to enable mankind to put a lunar lander within a few miles of its target on the moon.... and interceptor satellites to rendezvous with comets...
But...
Man cannot count well by nature. From earliest time man had miscounted the age of the antediluvians (who lived at most 900 years or so) to 27000 in some cases. Human legends not the Bible of course.
Even the Birth of Christ (B.C.) is some 3 and a half to 7 years off. In the 1700's various calendar corrections had to be made in the lifetime of America's founding fathers (hence the reference to the new or old calendar reckoning in writings of the time).
Today even with our super computers and brilliant mathematical minds we cannot determine the actual age of the universe nor its distances (there are only suppositional projections based on limited cosmological triangulation aided by theories of dopler red shift blue shift readings). Dig DEEPLY into what you believe, scientist lurkers, and you'll find somewhere in some dusty text book where it is written that what you were brain washed to believe was rock solid fact was mere speculation and theory...
And going back to B.C. even with all of our mathematical prowess we still cannot pin down what year the Messiah was crucified in. 30 AD, 32 AD... ?
So here we are facing a dilemma of time called the millennium. The Greek phrase used to indicate 1000 could be as specific as 999 years plus 1 or it can mean a large number of years without specificity like the more modern use of the term million. "I feel like I've waited a million years to use the wash room in a house filled with sisters." Or "Not in a million years will you guess who I saw today..."
The word million actually has its origin in indeterminate thousands. In fact a million is a thousand thousand.
Now we come to the doctrine of the millennium.
Another thing we must be careful of is in our interpretation of the Bible not to confuse metaphor with the literal. When Jesus Christ was on the foal of the donkey on 10 Nisan 30 AD (it may have been 32 AD but it was precisely 183,880 days after the pronouncement of Artaxerxes Longimanus to rebuild Jerusalem as Daniel 9 predicted to the day) that was to be taken literally and generally was not (see Luke 19:41-44).
When theologians to determine if the Church will go through the 70th Week of Daniel they misinterpret the 7 year period as one great tribulation instead of two 3.5 year tribulations the latter of the two being the infamous great tribulation.
Making the rapture a single event Pre-Great Tribulation, Mid-70th Week of Daniel, Post-believers' tribulation which also defines who the "saints" of Revelation really are (see Revelation 13:5-10)...
So, does the millennial reign from Jerusalem mean Jesus will literally physically be in the city Jerusalem ruling the world from there? Or does it mean the kingdom of Christ will advance from there unto the uttermost parts of the world?
1 Peter 2:3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
4 As you come to him, the living Stonerejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6 For in Scripture it says: See, I lay a stone in Zion, a chosen and precious cornerstone, and the one who trusts in him will never be put to shame.
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone,
8 and, A stone that causes men to stumble and a rock that makes them fall. They stumble because they disobey the messagewhich is also what they were destined for.
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
Some things to think about.
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What doesn't make any sense is when ANY amil person tries to explain what REV 20:1-6 actually means.. go right ahead.. I'm sure we will all get a nice laugh at what you or the RCC say that it means..
I doubt if any person here will do it though.. and that in itself speaks for itself.. because the amil position is built upon nonsense.
YOU even said in another POST on this thread that people were going through TRIBULATION, and then I asked you how that could be, if the RCC claims that we are ALREADY in the millennial kingdom... you simply ignored that.. because you must ignore it.. there's nothing that you can say that will cover up the inconsistency there..
Let's look since everyone in the anti-amillenial camp is ignoring this bit of evidence:Rev 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,
These are things Jesus is now, and was then at the time John wrote those words. Ruler over the kings of the earth.
This is not something that is yet to be accomplished. It iwas then and it is now. This makes the 1000 years spoken of later a present reality - and it is not about a literal 1000 years, as 1000 is never used literally in the bible once. It means a very long time and has now lasted for almost 2000 years.
Once again.. I challenge ANY amil person here to give us a verse by verse commentary on REV 20:1-6.. because that is where it becomes painfully obvious to all that amillennialism is nonsense.. but again.. I seriously doubt if any amil person will do it..
To suggest that the kingdoms of this world are Christ's at this present time is unbiblical, because Christ Himself said that HIS Kingdom is NOT of this WORLD.. ALSO.. Paul makes it very obvious as to WHO the god of this world is at the present time.. he is the one who takes men captive at his will and who blinds the minds of those who believe not the glorious gospel of Christ.. AND this is precisely why the glorious gospel of Christ calls people OUT of this present EVIL WORLD..
The Revelation of Jesus Christ does tell us when that will all change though.. it is within the portion of the book pertaining to things which shall be hereafter.. in Rev 11..
[bible]Revelation 11:15[/bible]
But again.. let's see ANY amil person here expound and comment upon REV 20:1-6.. but don't hold your breath, because thus far.. they're all avoiding THAT like the plague.. lol..
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HisdaughterJen
Well-Known Member
Rev 11:15 The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
Rev 11:16 And the twenty‑four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,
Rev 11:17 saying:
“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
Rev 11:18 The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great–
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
God is in control of everything, even the devil.
God has allowed the devil to continue to be around and influence humanity UNTIL the judgment and wrath comes. THEN, the devil will be bound into an actual spritual abyss while Christ actually reigns on/over the earth. AT THAT TIME, Christ will be king over the nations of the earth and will lead them with a rod of iron.
So, yes of course, Christ has won. All power and authority in heaven and earth have been given Him by the Father. He will use that authority and reign UNTIL everything has been put under His feet, the last of which is death....both spiritually AND physically.
Jesus rose from the tomb as a spiritual being in a glorified physical body. We will have the same, as promised. It hasn't happened yet but it will.
Jesus reigns spiritually and He will soon reign over the physical world as He puts everything under His feet.
“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
and he will reign for ever and ever.”
Rev 11:16 And the twenty‑four elders, who were seated on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God,
Rev 11:17 saying:
“We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty,
the One who is and who was,
because you have taken your great power
and have begun to reign.
Rev 11:18 The nations were angry; and your wrath has come.
The time has come for judging the dead,
and for rewarding your servants the prophets
and your saints and those who reverence your name,
both small and great–
and for destroying those who destroy the earth.”
God is in control of everything, even the devil.
God has allowed the devil to continue to be around and influence humanity UNTIL the judgment and wrath comes. THEN, the devil will be bound into an actual spritual abyss while Christ actually reigns on/over the earth. AT THAT TIME, Christ will be king over the nations of the earth and will lead them with a rod of iron.
So, yes of course, Christ has won. All power and authority in heaven and earth have been given Him by the Father. He will use that authority and reign UNTIL everything has been put under His feet, the last of which is death....both spiritually AND physically.
Jesus rose from the tomb as a spiritual being in a glorified physical body. We will have the same, as promised. It hasn't happened yet but it will.
Jesus reigns spiritually and He will soon reign over the physical world as He puts everything under His feet.
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I have notice the catholics avoiding that. Looks as if the roman catholics are the only ones that believe JESUS returns after the "1000yrs" while other say "it doesn't matter". Wonder why, and I would think it should matter?Did you notice how Matthew shows Jacob "generating" Judah and his brothers. Judah was the 4th born of Jacob/israel, and curiously the 4th church in Revelation concerns "Jezebel" and the only place in the NC where JESUS actually proclaims Himself "Son of the God"
http://foru.ms/t4437955-lazarus-and-the-rich-man.html
Matt 1:Scroll of generation of Jesus Christ, Son of David Son [of] Abraham. 2 Abraham generatesthe Isaac, Isaac yet generates the Jacob, Jacob yet generates the Judahand the brothers of him.
http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/Revelation/rev46.htm
Reve 2:18 And to the messenger of the in Thyatira/quateiroiV Out-called, write! The-yet is saying the Son of the God, the One having the eyes of Him as flame of fire, and the feet of Him as to white-copper.
The church in Thyatira has a longer message delivered to it from Jesus Christ than any of the seven churches,
Thyatira means "sweet perfume of sacrifice" and when you study this word it speaks of a perfume that sends forth its fragrance as the result of bruising, crushing, or breaking.
...............There is one name in the Bible that no parents would think to give to their daughter, and that name is Jezebel. The name Jezebel sweeps across the pages of the Bible.
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ScottBot
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My personal take as a partial preterist is that the story of Revelation quite cleanly fits the example of Caesar Nero (who died in 67 AD), and the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD under Emperor Titus (and as predicted by Christ). Much of the torments claimed in REvelation also fits the persecution of the Christian that began with Nero and increased under Vespasian, Titus, and Domitian, who declared himself dominus et deus (Lord and God). It was under Titus that Solomon's Temple was destroyed, along with most of Jerusalem. Revelations were written by John during his emprisonment in Ephasus under the Domitian persecution.
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I guess the word "nations" can't possibly be symbolic when used in the most symbolic book of the bible . . .
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
It makes so much sense literally, I wonder why someone would want to label a symbolic meaning to this verse.
There are many things symbolic in revelation as jen mentioned but the message is literal because literal fits and makes sense.
I would like to hear what you think this symbolically means.
that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled:
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Ben12
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I am not an amil what ever that is BUT.....
You can give Satan all the glory you want to but the earth is the Lords and Satan has no control unless God ordains it. I have people say that Satan is the ruler of the world; but where?
Deuteronomy 10:14
Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.
Psalm 24:1
The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
1 Corinthians 10:26
For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.
Corinthians 10:28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof
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Ben12
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There are plenty more scriptures; I stopped at Psalm 90; but there is no doubt that the earth is God earth. You are right he is not the god of this earth; but He is God of all the earth
Numbers 14:21
But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD
1 Chronicles 29:11
Thine, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
Psalm 2:7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psalm 24: 1The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
Psalm 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
Psalm 47:2
For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
Psalm 47:6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises. 7For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding. 8God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.
Psalm 48: 1Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. 2Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King. 3God is known in her palaces for a refuge
Psalm 72: 8He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth
Psalm 72:19And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
Psalm 74: 16The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. 17Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.
Psalm 78: 68But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved. 69And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.
Psalm 82: 8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Psalm 89: 11The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
Psalm 90: 1Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. 3Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
Numbers 14:21
But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD
1 Chronicles 29:11
Thine, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all.
Psalm 2:7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psalm 24: 1The earth is the LORD's, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.
Psalm 46:10
Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
Psalm 47:2
For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
Psalm 47:6 Sing praises to God, sing praises: sing praises unto our King, sing praises. 7For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding. 8God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the throne of his holiness.
Psalm 48: 1Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. 2Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King. 3God is known in her palaces for a refuge
Psalm 72: 8He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth
Psalm 72:19And blessed be his glorious name for ever: and let the whole earth be filled with his glory; Amen, and Amen.
Psalm 74: 16The day is thine, the night also is thine: thou hast prepared the light and the sun. 17Thou hast set all the borders of the earth: thou hast made summer and winter.
Psalm 78: 68But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved. 69And he built his sanctuary like high palaces, like the earth which he hath established for ever.
Psalm 82: 8Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.
Psalm 89: 11The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
Psalm 90: 1Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. 3Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
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Ben12
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This whole mindset that the earth is not Gods comes from the false doctrine of the rapture. As if all the Christian are going to fly up in the clouds (symbolism) or some where way out there called heaven (God dwells everywhere including the earth) As all the heathen will go though the great tribulation and then off to hell they go. Why because god does not have the will to save them; but he has the will to torture them
.. BUNK
G Hawton wrote and I rewrite: "I would to God that all Gods elect might see that everything everywhere is working tirelessly and endlessly to produce sonship in those who are the called according to His purpose. Everywhere! Everything! Temptations, tears, heartaches, unfaithful friends and brethren, loss of property, loss of business, perils, hateful neighbors, fiery furnaces, dens of lions, rugged crosses, and isles of exile! All things! All things! All things, too numerous to mention, are working for the good of Gods elect, and are adding, though unseen now, an exceeding and eternal weight of glory to us."
Now that is every passage in the whole New Testament in which the word "tribulation" appears! Twice it speaks of the great tribulation that came upon the Jews when God abolished the Old Testament order of Law and Sacrifices by destroying the Jewish nation, temple, and priesthood. Once tribulation is pronounced upon those who persecute the saints. Once Jesus promises great tribulation to those believers in the churches who commit spiritual fornication. AND IN EVERY OTHER PASSAGE THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKS OF THE TRIBULATION WE ENDURE AS GODS ELECT!
Tribulation is a word that the Holy Spirit uses in the book of Revelation only in relation to saints
We cannot even get to the Holy of Holies until the plagues or calamities are complete in our life.
"They returned again confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:21-22).
"Tribulation" has been brought into the English language from the Latin. The verb is tribulare, which means, "to press, to oppress, to afflict." The Latins had a tribulum, a threshing sledge which separated grain from chaff. It consisted of a wooden platform studded underneath with sharp flints or iron teeth. As this instrument passed over the pile of grain the wheat was separated from the straw. We can well understand how a man undergoing afflictions would compare his sufferings with those which would be inflicted if such an instrument passed over him. Now, how can a son of God rejoice in such grinding pressure?
The idea that the "Great Tribulation" is going to be poured out upon the world is a stupidity that contradicts every scripture passage on tribulation in the whole New Testament! Perhaps we have been casual in reading the very words of the Lord Jesus to His own, "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" (Jn. 16:33). Mark the connection of thought! He clearly did not say, "On this earth the world is going to get the tribulation
"But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and He that formed thee, O Israel. Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. When thou passeth through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: and when thou walketh through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour " (Isa. 43:1-3).
Not one son of God can escape the process! You can be a nice sweet Christian and go to heaven when you die without suffering or tribulation. But you cannot be a son apart from chastening and tribulation! You can be saved by grace and blessed with all the free gifts of God without testing and trial
Under pressure and bruising we turn to the Lord in a deeper, more intense way, and the Spirit moves mightily on our behalf to guide, comfort, encourage, rebuke, teach, correct, counsel, reveal, instruct, develop, strengthen, mature and perfect us.
All of them have endured the strippings, purgings, prunings, threshings, refinings, and purifying dealings of God and have been thoroughly chastened and corrected by the Father.
It is interesting to note that the term "great tribulation" appears only twice in the book of Revelation, and neither time does it apply to the world. In both cases it has to do with the Lords own people! Jesus said he would cast the spiritual fornicators of the church age into great tribulation, unless they repented. What do you suppose would be the purpose of the great tribulation? Why, bless your heart, would it not be to influence and motivate them to repent! And then John sees a great multitude that has come out of great tribulation. A wonderful transformation has taken place in them through the process of the great of the Lamb." They were already Gods people, and were not now washed from the filth of the flesh they walked in before they were saved, rather, they were washed from the defilement of religion and religious systems! As a result of their going through that great tribulation, Gods purpose was accomplished in their lives. Cleansed and purified by the Lamb, they were transformed and brought very near to His throne of love, grace, and power. JPE
This "great tribulation" has lasted throughout the two thousand years since Christ came and began to form His body in the earth. All through the age He has called out people after people, company after company, from the apostate church systems of their day, and now, praise His name, there is a great multitude that no man can number!
Now that is every passage in the whole New Testament in which the word "tribulation" appears! Twice it speaks of the great tribulation that came upon the Jews when God abolished the Old Testament order of Law and Sacrifices by destroying the Jewish nation, temple, and priesthood. Once tribulation is pronounced upon those who persecute the saints. Once Jesus promises great tribulation to those believers in the churches who commit spiritual fornication. AND IN EVERY OTHER PASSAGE THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKS OF THE TRIBULATION WE ENDURE AS GODS ELECT!
Tribulation is a word that the Holy Spirit uses in the book of Revelation only in relation to saints
We cannot even get to the Holy of Holies until the plagues or calamities are complete in our life.
Were we not all there at one time? To these the Lord Jesus said, "Behold, I will cast her into a bed (of trouble), and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds" (Rev. 2:22). It is interesting to note that the term "great tribulation" appears only twice in the book of Revelation, and neither time does it apply to the world. In both cases it has to do with the Lords own people! Jesus said he would cast the spiritual fornicators of the church age into great tribulation, unless they repented. What do you suppose would be the purpose of the great tribulation? Why, bless your heart, would it not be to influence and motivate them to repent! And then John sees a great multitude that has come out of great tribulation. A wonderful transformation has taken place in them through the process of the great tribulation. They have now "washed their robes" and have "made them white in the blood of the Lamb." They were already Gods people, and were not now washed from the filth of the flesh they walked in before they were saved, rather, they were washed from the defilement of religion and religious systems! As a result of their going through that great tribulation, Gods purpose was accomplished in their lives. Cleansed and purified by the Lamb, they were transformed and brought very near to His throne of love, grace, and power.
White robes in the book of Revelation denote "the righteous acts of the saints" (Rev. 19:8) These are the ones "coming out" of "the great tribulation" having their robes washed in the blood of the Lamb! Praise God! It is His own harvest! How many are there? "A great multitude that no man could number." It is the "great" tribulation because of the "great" multitude! No man can experience more than his own tribulation. This "great tribulation" has lasted throughout the two thousand years since Christ came and began to form His body in the earth. All through the age He has called out people after people, company after company, from the apostate church systems of their day, and now, praise His name, there is a great multitude that no man can number!
This is why above Christ waited 2000 years to complete His purpose in the earth.
G Hawton wrote and I rewrite: "I would to God that all Gods elect might see that everything everywhere is working tirelessly and endlessly to produce sonship in those who are the called according to His purpose. Everywhere! Everything! Temptations, tears, heartaches, unfaithful friends and brethren, loss of property, loss of business, perils, hateful neighbors, fiery furnaces, dens of lions, rugged crosses, and isles of exile! All things! All things! All things, too numerous to mention, are working for the good of Gods elect, and are adding, though unseen now, an exceeding and eternal weight of glory to us."
Now that is every passage in the whole New Testament in which the word "tribulation" appears! Twice it speaks of the great tribulation that came upon the Jews when God abolished the Old Testament order of Law and Sacrifices by destroying the Jewish nation, temple, and priesthood. Once tribulation is pronounced upon those who persecute the saints. Once Jesus promises great tribulation to those believers in the churches who commit spiritual fornication. AND IN EVERY OTHER PASSAGE THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKS OF THE TRIBULATION WE ENDURE AS GODS ELECT!
Tribulation is a word that the Holy Spirit uses in the book of Revelation only in relation to saints
We cannot even get to the Holy of Holies until the plagues or calamities are complete in our life.
"They returned again confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God" (Acts 14:21-22).
"Tribulation" has been brought into the English language from the Latin. The verb is tribulare, which means, "to press, to oppress, to afflict." The Latins had a tribulum, a threshing sledge which separated grain from chaff. It consisted of a wooden platform studded underneath with sharp flints or iron teeth. As this instrument passed over the pile of grain the wheat was separated from the straw. We can well understand how a man undergoing afflictions would compare his sufferings with those which would be inflicted if such an instrument passed over him. Now, how can a son of God rejoice in such grinding pressure?
The idea that the "Great Tribulation" is going to be poured out upon the world is a stupidity that contradicts every scripture passage on tribulation in the whole New Testament! Perhaps we have been casual in reading the very words of the Lord Jesus to His own, "In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" (Jn. 16:33). Mark the connection of thought! He clearly did not say, "On this earth the world is going to get the tribulation
"But now thus saith the Lord that created thee, O Jacob, and He that formed thee, O Israel. Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine. When thou passeth through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: and when thou walketh through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee. For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour " (Isa. 43:1-3).
Not one son of God can escape the process! You can be a nice sweet Christian and go to heaven when you die without suffering or tribulation. But you cannot be a son apart from chastening and tribulation! You can be saved by grace and blessed with all the free gifts of God without testing and trial
Under pressure and bruising we turn to the Lord in a deeper, more intense way, and the Spirit moves mightily on our behalf to guide, comfort, encourage, rebuke, teach, correct, counsel, reveal, instruct, develop, strengthen, mature and perfect us.
All of them have endured the strippings, purgings, prunings, threshings, refinings, and purifying dealings of God and have been thoroughly chastened and corrected by the Father.
It is interesting to note that the term "great tribulation" appears only twice in the book of Revelation, and neither time does it apply to the world. In both cases it has to do with the Lords own people! Jesus said he would cast the spiritual fornicators of the church age into great tribulation, unless they repented. What do you suppose would be the purpose of the great tribulation? Why, bless your heart, would it not be to influence and motivate them to repent! And then John sees a great multitude that has come out of great tribulation. A wonderful transformation has taken place in them through the process of the great of the Lamb." They were already Gods people, and were not now washed from the filth of the flesh they walked in before they were saved, rather, they were washed from the defilement of religion and religious systems! As a result of their going through that great tribulation, Gods purpose was accomplished in their lives. Cleansed and purified by the Lamb, they were transformed and brought very near to His throne of love, grace, and power. JPE
This "great tribulation" has lasted throughout the two thousand years since Christ came and began to form His body in the earth. All through the age He has called out people after people, company after company, from the apostate church systems of their day, and now, praise His name, there is a great multitude that no man can number!
Now that is every passage in the whole New Testament in which the word "tribulation" appears! Twice it speaks of the great tribulation that came upon the Jews when God abolished the Old Testament order of Law and Sacrifices by destroying the Jewish nation, temple, and priesthood. Once tribulation is pronounced upon those who persecute the saints. Once Jesus promises great tribulation to those believers in the churches who commit spiritual fornication. AND IN EVERY OTHER PASSAGE THE HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKS OF THE TRIBULATION WE ENDURE AS GODS ELECT!
Tribulation is a word that the Holy Spirit uses in the book of Revelation only in relation to saints
We cannot even get to the Holy of Holies until the plagues or calamities are complete in our life.
Were we not all there at one time? To these the Lord Jesus said, "Behold, I will cast her into a bed (of trouble), and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds" (Rev. 2:22). It is interesting to note that the term "great tribulation" appears only twice in the book of Revelation, and neither time does it apply to the world. In both cases it has to do with the Lords own people! Jesus said he would cast the spiritual fornicators of the church age into great tribulation, unless they repented. What do you suppose would be the purpose of the great tribulation? Why, bless your heart, would it not be to influence and motivate them to repent! And then John sees a great multitude that has come out of great tribulation. A wonderful transformation has taken place in them through the process of the great tribulation. They have now "washed their robes" and have "made them white in the blood of the Lamb." They were already Gods people, and were not now washed from the filth of the flesh they walked in before they were saved, rather, they were washed from the defilement of religion and religious systems! As a result of their going through that great tribulation, Gods purpose was accomplished in their lives. Cleansed and purified by the Lamb, they were transformed and brought very near to His throne of love, grace, and power.
White robes in the book of Revelation denote "the righteous acts of the saints" (Rev. 19:8) These are the ones "coming out" of "the great tribulation" having their robes washed in the blood of the Lamb! Praise God! It is His own harvest! How many are there? "A great multitude that no man could number." It is the "great" tribulation because of the "great" multitude! No man can experience more than his own tribulation. This "great tribulation" has lasted throughout the two thousand years since Christ came and began to form His body in the earth. All through the age He has called out people after people, company after company, from the apostate church systems of their day, and now, praise His name, there is a great multitude that no man can number!
This is why above Christ waited 2000 years to complete His purpose in the earth.
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It is interesting that the Jews see that we are coming upon 7000 years of earth time. They also see this as the Jubilee of Jubilee when the whole earth shall rest.
It makes sense.
From Adam to Abraham the geneology is stated as : the father of." and takes up 2000 years.
From Abraham to Jesus the geneology is stated as "the son of" and took up another 2000 years
Since Jesus til now has been getting close to another 2000 years and it has been the time of the work of the Holy Spirit.
So each have worked with humanity for 2000 years each... and now they will rest for the 1000 as if it was a day.
It makes sense.
From Adam to Abraham the geneology is stated as : the father of." and takes up 2000 years.
From Abraham to Jesus the geneology is stated as "the son of" and took up another 2000 years
Since Jesus til now has been getting close to another 2000 years and it has been the time of the work of the Holy Spirit.
So each have worked with humanity for 2000 years each... and now they will rest for the 1000 as if it was a day.
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