Question regarding concept of Holy Trinity

[Lyndon451]

I consider myself a Christian and have pretty strong spiritual beliefs, but there is one aspect of Christianity in general that I have been struggling with and haven't come to a conclusion on. So if anyone here could shed some light on it for me, it would be much appreciated!

Anyways, I am well aware of the concept of the Holy Trinity. However, even so, I notice that at most churches I've been to, the services revolve around direct worship and praying to Jesus. Even though I fully believe that he was the son of God and our savior, I am hesitant to actually worship him AS God. As far as I know, nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ask anyone to bow down or worship him, or to pray directly to him, but asked that they direct their prayers and worship to the Lord, his Father. So can anyone help to clear this up for me? Thanks!

 

[dysert]

I consider myself a Christian and have pretty strong spiritual beliefs, but there is one aspect of Christianity in general that I have been struggling with and haven't come to a conclusion on. So if anyone here could shed some light on it for me, it would be much appreciated!

Anyways, I am well aware of the concept of the Holy Trinity. However, even so, I notice that at most churches I've been to, the services revolve around direct worship and praying to Jesus. Even though I fully believe that he was the son of God and our savior, I am hesitant to actually worship him AS God. As far as I know, nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ask anyone to bow down or worship him, or to pray directly to him, but asked that they direct their prayers and worship to the Lord, his Father. So can anyone help to clear this up for me? Thanks!

Jesus, as fully God, is just as appropriate to pray to as anyone else in the Godhead. A few examples of this include:
Rom. 5:1-2
Col. 3:17
1 Tim. 2:5
Heb. 3:1

There are also the many passages where Jesus said to ask things "in His name". And when you think about it, there were dozens of miracles He performed while on earth that came about by people praying to Him (i.e., they asked Him for something). I see absolutely no problem addressing a prayer to the Son, although by habit I will typically call out to "the Lord" or "Lord God" (either of which could mean the Godhead, the Father, Son, or Holy Spirit).

 

[ViaCrucis]

I consider myself a Christian and have pretty strong spiritual beliefs, but there is one aspect of Christianity in general that I have been struggling with and haven't come to a conclusion on. So if anyone here could shed some light on it for me, it would be much appreciated!

Anyways, I am well aware of the concept of the Holy Trinity. However, even so, I notice that at most churches I've been to, the services revolve around direct worship and praying to Jesus. Even though I fully believe that he was the son of God and our savior, I am hesitant to actually worship him AS God. As far as I know, nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ask anyone to bow down or worship him, or to pray directly to him, but asked that they direct their prayers and worship to the Lord, his Father. So can anyone help to clear this up for me? Thanks!

There are plenty of times when Jesus freely receives worship. Not only worship, but is specifically prayed to in such a way that reflects His Divinity (Acts 7:59). He is specifically called "God" on several occasions, such as in John ch. 1 and when St. Paul writes in Colossians that He is the "fullness of Deity in bodily form".

While the New Testament never comes out and says anything quite as clear as later Christian confessions do (e.g. Nicene Creed), that Jesus is identified with the God of Israel in some way is a rather unavoidable conclusion when taking the New Testament at face value.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Harry3142]

"I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. (The Gospel of St. John 14:12-14,NIV)

In the NIV Bible, as well as the NASB Bible, it would appear that he is instructing the hearers to pray to him directly. However, in the KJV Bible, as well as the Jerusalem Bible, his instructions indicate that Jesus himself is not to be prayed to, but rather the Father is to be prayed to in Jesus' name.

This is also indicated in all 4 Bibles in John 15:16, and in John 16:23. In both of these verses Jesus is clearly indicating that we are to pray to the Father in Jesus' name. As well, The Lord's Prayer is addressed to the Father. Since this prayer was taught to his disciples in response to a specific request (Matthew 6:5-13), it should be seen as an important means of conversing with God.

All too often we Christians focus all of our attention on Jesus Christ, while totally ignoring the worship justly due his Father. It was God the Father who drew up the blueprints for our salvation (Romans 3:19-5:10). it was God the Father who sent his Son among us to fulfill all that was required for us to obtain that salvation (Luke 1:26-38). It was God the Father to whom Jesus Christ himself prayed (John 17:1-26). It was God the Father to whom Jesus Christ offered his atoning blood, and then sat down beside (Hebrews 8:1-10:14). And it is God the Father who has accepted that sacrifice as 'the perfect sacrifice', cleansing all of us of our sins who choose to include ourselves in its salvific power.

 

[TheGMan]

Jesus said that the most important Law is that "Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one." I have never found that particularly compatible with most contemporary understanding of the Trinity.

But then the doctrine of Trinity developed in a particular historical and philosophical context. Once I get away from how today's church understands the Trinity, I find I am much more comfortable with it. I wouldn't say that it is the language in which I would choose to express my faith, but I find little to object to in the ideas it was trying to explain.

The real problem is that the church has made it such shibboleth. We are taught that we have to believe in the Trinity without it ever being properly explained. Certainly never explained well: often wrongly and frequently heretically. I don't object to that per se. I don't believe that right understanding of doctrine is a prerequisite of salvation. But I don't think it is useful. In fact, I think it is harmful that is made into such a stumbling block.

We are told that we must hang our faith on the expression of Trinitarian belief. Never mind that we each have our understanding of that expression. Never mind that the church fathers who formulated the doctrine of Trinity would be horrified by the understandings that today's Christians have reached.

The Trinity, properly understood, properly studied in its development, is not wrong. But the doctrine has outlived its usefulness. It has become a stumbling block.

 

[ChrisHolland619]

Jesus IS God.

 

[dysert]

The Trinity, properly understood, properly studied in its development, is not wrong. But the doctrine has outlived its usefulness. It has become a stumbling block.

Doctrine does not come with an expiration date. And as for stumbling blocks, "Christ crucified" is a stumbling block to the Jews. Should we stop talking about that too?

 

[OrthodoxyUSA]

If we are looking for the model of Christian worship. We see it in Revelation.

It is heavenly worship that Christians desire to join.

The Divine Liturgy (the worship of the people), joins in heavenly worship.

Do you see Christ being worshiped in Revelation?

Forgive me...

 

[TheGMan]

Doctrine does not come with an expiration date. And as for stumbling blocks, "Christ crucified" is a stumbling block to the Jews. Should we stop talking about that too?

Yes it does. The truth it seeks to explain does not change but the language in which the truth was once expressed does change. And, in the case of the Trinity, the language has changed so much that it now leads people more to error than truth. Many Christians claim to be Trinitarian but very few actually believe what the church fathers who formulated the doctrine believed. That suggests that it is no longer an effective expression of the truth.

 

[barryrob]

I consider myself a Christian and have pretty strong spiritual beliefs, but there is one aspect of Christianity in general that I have been struggling with and haven't come to a conclusion on. So if anyone here could shed some light on it for me, it would be much appreciated!

Anyways, I am well aware of the concept of the Holy Trinity. However, even so, I notice that at most churches I've been to, the services revolve around direct worship and praying to Jesus. Even though I fully believe that he was the son of God and our savior, I am hesitant to actually worship him AS God. As far as I know, nowhere in the Bible did Jesus ask anyone to bow down or worship him, or to pray directly to him, but asked that they direct their prayers and worship to the Lord, his Father. So can anyone help to clear this up for me? Thanks!

Quite Right.

Matthew​

4:10
Then Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

rob​

 

[Knee V]

Yes it does. The truth it seeks to explain does not change but the language in which the truth was once expressed does change. And, in the case of the Trinity, the language has changed so much that it now leads people more to error than truth. Many Christians claim to be Trinitarian but very few actually believe what the church fathers who formulated the doctrine believed. That suggests that it is no longer an effective expression of the truth.

The problem does not lie with the language. The problem lies with those who have willfully deviated from the Truth and deceived others with their errors by using Trinitarian language in a soul-destroying manner.

 

[GuardianShua]

There are plenty of times when Jesus freely receives worship. Not only worship, but is specifically prayed to in such a way that reflects His Divinity (Acts 7:59). He is specifically called "God" on several occasions, such as in John ch. 1 and when St. Paul writes in Colossians that He is the "fullness of Deity in bodily form".

While the New Testament never comes out and says anything quite as clear as later Christian confessions do (e.g. Nicene Creed), that Jesus is identified with the God of Israel in some way is a rather unavoidable conclusion when taking the New Testament at face value.

-CryptoLutheran

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship [the Lord / Yahwah] your God, and serve him only.’ ”

Luke 4:8
Jesus answered, “It is written: ‘Worship [the Lord / Yahwah] your God and serve him only.’ ”

John 5:41
“I do not accept praise from men,...

In 381 AD, Emperor Theodosius (a Trinitarian) convened a council in Constantinople. Only Trinitarian bishops were invited to attend. 150 bishops attended and voted to alter the Nicene creed to include the Holy Spirit as a part of the Godhead. The Trinity doctrine was now official for both the church and the state. Dissident bishops were expelled from the church, and excommunicated.

The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”

Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

 

[Adam Warlock]

The problem does not lie with the language. The problem lies with those who have willfully deviated from the Truth and deceived others with their errors by using Trinitarian language in a soul-destroying manner.

Exactly