Question re: living together before marriage

[Maggie893]

But what if no one really knows you're living together? If you each own your own houses, have all your mail go to your own address, keep you own phone number, don't tell people you're living together for the sole purpose of trying not to represent "another lapsed Catholic"? Is it still considered Scandelous if you don't announce it? Consider that you never have to lie about it because no one ever asks.

This is certainly not an official commentary, I just want to put this out for you to think about. This lifestyle you are in seems to have a deceptive root in order to not look bad to others. It also seems to have an isolationist result. You can't be spending much time with friends or family because the truth would eventually come out. Also a relationship which is not open and honest with others in our lives must lead to some fear and guilt. I would just hate to see you start a marriage holding onto this kind of stuff. Ideally you each would be a full part of each others whole lives with family, friends, work, etc. Well this you probably know. I hope you don't feel that I'm judging you, I'm not. I've actually been in your shoes. The hiding it from everyone just took it's toll eventually. I will pray for your situation and I definitely concur with Carrye to talk with the priest, a far better counselor than me.

 

[""]

What do you think about groups of college aged persons, of both sexes, sharing a home together. An example would be a group of 7 college aged young men and young ladies, who rent a larger house and share it together while attending college. There are no sexual relations between any of them, merely friendship.

After you answer this, tell me how it differs from sharing a dorm with co-ed persons. Not a room... a floor, a building, etc.

This is asked out of curiosity, and because I enjoy reading your answers to topics such as these. Thanks in advance.

 

[dawnsday]

Causing other people to think you're sinning, and then doing something like going up for Communion. It then looks like the Church is condoning premarital sex. That doesn't always happen, but the possibility's there.

so wait it's OUR sin if people gossip and start rumors and think things cause their own minds immediately go to dirty thoughts? How is that not their sin, how is it ours? should we not trust our friends word...expressing concern is one thing ie "i just want to make sure you understand the temptation that may lie in your choosing to live with him/her", but assuming something which has no basis other then it's common in society for couples to have sex when they live together? we are in the world not of it right, so we don't act like it and it shouldn't be assumed...does that at all make sense?

 

[Miss Shelby]

Thank you, this is a very clear way to describe the scandal thing.


But what if no one really knows you're living together? If you each own your own houses, have all your mail go to your own address, keep you own phone number, don't tell people you're living together for the sole purpose of trying not to represent "another lapsed Catholic"? Is it still considered Scandelous if you don't announce it? Consider that you never have to lie about it because no one ever asks.

It wouldn't be about people you know knowing you're living together, but people you do not know as well. Your neighbors for instance? If they know you're living together and somehow find out you're practicing Catholics what would that say to them?

I don't know of any priest who would marry a couple knowing they were living together, even if they insisted they were not having premarital sex. It just does not happen. When people do this, the only way they can get the priest to marry them is to lie to the priest and say they're not living together. And that's a sin, too.

Michelle

 

[Paul S]

so wait it's OUR sin if people gossip and start rumors and think things cause their own minds immediately go to dirty thoughts?

It's their sin, but it's also a sin to tempt people.

 

[Miss Shelby]

so wait it's OUR sin if people gossip and start rumors and think things cause their own minds immediately go to dirty thoughts? How is that not their sin, how is it ours? should we not trust our friends word...expressing concern is one thing ie "i just want to make sure you understand the temptation that may lie in your choosing to live with him/her", but assuming something which has no basis other then it's common in society for couples to have sex when they live together? we are in the world not of it right, so we don't act like it and it shouldn't be assumed...does that at all make sense?

When a man and a woman share the same house, it is not someone elses fault if they assume they're married and behaving how a married couple would. It says right in the bible to avoid the appearance of sin. Living together and being romantically involved even if sex is not happening is NOT avoiding the appearance of sin.

It could also cause someone else to stumble.

Michelle

 

[PioMagnus]

I can't remember the verse exactly, but the bible says, "Woe to you who brings scandal to these little ones"--so, apparently it is your sin, or Jesus wouldn't be "woe-ing" you, n'est pas?

 

[dawnsday]

It's their sin, but it's also a sin to tempt people.

how is my life choice (i don't live w/ a guy, it's just a hypothetical) tempting them?

you know i see lots of people doing lots of things that i shouldn't do and that does not tempt me...my putting myself in bad situations or watching things on tv is what does it... and wouldnt it be an example of great self restraint?

 

[dawnsday]

maybe i'm misunderstanding this all...okay...example: before becoming a christian i lived with my fiancee...we had a child together....then i gave my life to christ and told him i was off limits...no touchy touchy if you get my drift...now at that time if i would have moved out, i wouldn't have had any where to go, not near enough money to take care of my child (i was in the wonderful gap where i made too much for government assistance and not enough to pay rent and eat at the same time)...so...i took to sleeping on the couch if necessary and didn't have sex with him...now, when someone said "you live together?" i explained this very thing to them, and said if he would just marry me now and not need a wedding it'd be good, or when i get the raise i need i'll move out until the wedding...granted i moved out eventually because we broke up, but still, i acted appropriately and explained my situation, leaving no room for anything but presumtuous rumors by those who were in dire need of a life and took joy in scandalizing ME...

 

[PioMagnus]

Your situation was regrettable, without a doubt. However, God will provide, and by staying there you were indeed causing scandal, although I'm sure it was the last thought on your mind.

You did well to dispel the thoughts that people were having.

 

[dawnsday]

okay dummy moment, what does dispel mean

 

[anyyoone]

HI acceptance. I agree with Carrye on this.

 

[PioMagnus]

dis·pel (d

-sp

l

)
tr.v. dis·pelled, dis·pel·ling, dis·pels

1. To rid one's mind of: managed to dispel my doubts.
2. To drive away or off by or as if by scattering. See Synonyms at scatter.

(from dictionary.com)

When I first read your post (#31) I was so offended. I thought it said "Okay dummy, Then what does dispel mean?"--lol, just shows how easy it is to make mistakes when reading.

Godbless,
Pio Magnus

 

[dawnsday]

awesome word...note to self use in sentence tomorrow...

so, is it possible there are exceptions to the rules, that if it's necessary for survival it comes down to that, but if given a choice you should avoid it at all costs...and if you are forced into the situation you should correct people

on a seperate note, one should remember that the majority of people who cohabitate premaritally end up divorces while couples who live seperately til marriage have the greatest success rate...

 

[Kepha]

I know it's not a good idea for a couple to live together before they're married, however I was wondering if the Church (all personal opinions aside) considers it a mortal sin to live with someone of the opposite sex if you're not engaging in any type of sinful activity (i.e. having sex)? Say, for example, the couple was living together for financial reasons.

I think you can still give the appearance of Scandal, even though you are not commiting the sin of fornication.

 

[NPH]

Hi there again dawnsday! I keep running into you all over OBOB tonight

Think of it this way - If there is a non-christian neighbor to the couple living together and he has been on the fence and seriously coming to God, and then he sees a couple of Christians living in what appears to be a sinful way. Then that neighbors thinks to themselves "I thought they were Christians and supposed not to do things like that! If being a Christian means you can just keep acting however you want then what's the point?" and hardens his heart against God.

Wouldn't that dismay you to know that you and your apparent actions were the thing that drove someone away from God? if you some day stood before God in Heaven while that neighbor was enduring an eternity of torment in Hell what would you say to Him?

 

[NPH]

so, is it possible there are exceptions to the rules, that if it's necessary for survival it comes down to that, but if given a choice you should avoid it at all costs...and if you are forced into the situation you should correct people

It could be possible I imagine, though I would trust in God to give me better options. If it was an absolute last resort I would make extra certain that those around you are aware of the situation. Even then, though, there may be some who wonder what's really going on.

Man, it can be tough to be a Christian sometimes, can't it?

 

[Paul S]

Think of it this way - If there is a non-christian neighbor to the couple living together and he has been on the fence and seriously coming to God, and then he sees a couple of Christians living in what appears to be a sinful way. Then that neighbors thinks to themselves "I thought they were Christians and supposed not to do things like that! If being a Christian means you can just keep acting however you want then what's the point?" and hardens his heart against God.

Good summary of that.

 

[BillH]

on a seperate note, one should remember that the majority of people who cohabitate premaritally end up divorces while couples who live seperately til marriage have the greatest success rate...

Good point dawnsday! Especially since a lot of people I know always seem to believe otherwise...

 

[dawnsday]

Hi there again dawnsday! I keep running into you all over OBOB tonight

Think of it this way - If there is a non-christian neighbor to the couple living together and he has been on the fence and seriously coming to God, and then he sees a couple of Christians living in what appears to be a sinful way. Then that neighbors thinks to themselves "I thought they were Christians and supposed not to do things like that! If being a Christian means you can just keep acting however you want then what's the point?" and hardens his heart against God.

Wouldn't that dismay you to know that you and your apparent actions were the thing that drove someone away from God? if you some day stood before God in Heaven while that neighbor was enduring an eternity of torment in Hell what would you say to Him?

that makes so much sense now, actually when i was searching there were people who claimed to be christian who didn't live it and to me it just seemed like the bible and title were there to use for their own self validation...my thoughts were "if it just means you can keep on living like that what's the point?"...well put