Question posed to me by a friend

[Naraoia]

The 'micro- / macro-' distinction is one devised by anti-evolutionists to say, 'Oi, you haven't shown us speciation! Therefore...'. And when we did show you speciation? You just shifted the definition one taxon higher.
So please, tell me how this distinction is relevant.

Actually the micro/macro distinction was created by scientists (as always, TO has a FAQ on the subject). Nevertheless, creationists do misuse it quite happily.

 

[Naraoia]

Bacteria becoming resistant is micro- evolution. It is Still a BACTERIA, it doesn't EVOLVE into another, more advanced form (a better term, intelligence is to relevant.)

Let me tell you something. Bacteria (singular: bacterium) are an entire domain of life. They are a taxonomic category on the same level as eukaryotes (that's very roughly everything from an amoeba to us). So something that's "still a bacterium" can be as far (or, I think, even farther) from another bacterium as you are from a plant.

That aside, what would constitute a "more advanced" form in your book?

In terms of biodiversity, a lot of creatures just appeared at once, since we can't go back into time (yet) then who knows what really happened.

Wait, we can't go back in time => we don't know what really happened => a lot of creatures just appeared at once?

Where is the logic in this line of reasoning?

Now for me personally, I am not for or against anything, I am a skeptic of hard to prove ideas,

For a skeptic of hard to prove ideas, you seem quite convinced there is a creator...

so if convincing enough, evolution may be part of the answer.

Read about it. Learn about it. If you take the time to think it through, it will be convincing enough. TalkOrigins is an excellent resource, btw.

There is too much intelligent design to say that this is all one accident.

Such as?

There is way too much evidence to say that there is no creator.

Such as?

For me it is more of there may be some combination of the many theories.

Which theories?

How do we know that God didn't create the universe?

We don't.

And perhaps he had designed scientific laws into it (laws even governing genetics and how genetically things change over time?)

No problem with that, though it's empirically indistinguishable from a natural laws without God scenario.

Even though Macro evolution supposedly hasn't happened for many millions of years,

Huh? Macroevolution is speciation and above. While only speciation is fast enough to observe in a human lifetime, there are plenty of examples of that.

micro evolution happens all the time, though we have yet to see it form a new species.

As I've said, TalkOrigins is a great resource.

This is the best way I have heard the accidental mutation theory analyzed. To say that all intelligent (advanced) life formed by accident is comparable to saying that a tornado blows through a junkyard and by happenstance once it leaves a brand new ready-to-go Boeing 747 is sitting there.

Deeply flawed analogy, for at least two reasons.

(1) It did not happen at once. From the first cells to the first brains (never mind "intelligence"), life took about three billion years, possibly more, of gradual evolution to get there. For things like bacteria that may reproduce every twenty minutes if the conditions are right (and do this in absolutely incredible numbers), that's an awful lot of mutations. Even for slower-reproducing organisms, millions and billions of years is a lot of time to experiment with this DNA thing.

(2) The "junkyard" of life is made up of parts that interact. Unlike the parts in a junkyard, these molecules spontaneously react in many ways that can be incorporated into biological functions.

(BTW, why do you think that intelligent = advanced?)

 

[LittleNipper]

Many Christians believe in evolution...

Just check out Francis Collins

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Collins

Many Christians believe there is no Hell.
Many Christains believe one must be water baptized in order to be saved.
Many Christians believe Mary to be the Mother of God.
Many Christians believe in Transubstantiation.
Many Christians believe the pope to be the head of the Church.
Many Christians are wrong in one area or another...

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Many Christians believe there is no Hell.
Many Christains believe one must be water baptized in order to be saved.
Many Christians believe Mary to be the Mother of God.
Many Christians believe in Transubstantiation.
Many Christians believe the pope to be the head of the Church.
Many Christians are wrong in one area or another...

Many Christians believe Jesus is God.
Many Christians believe in God, period.

Are these Christians wrong too?

 

[Naraoia]

Many Christians believe there is no Hell.
Many Christains believe one must be water baptized in order to be saved.
Many Christians believe Mary to be the Mother of God.
Many Christians believe in Transubstantiation.
Many Christians believe the pope to be the head of the Church.
Many Christians are wrong in one area or another...

Is the point that these Christians are all wrong and you are right? Or is the point that Christians may be wrong => evolution is false?

Either way, I don't see the logic.

 

[Hespera]

Evolution is one of those wierd spots on our historical record. It can't be proven, it is dis-proven agiain and again and is still taught as fact in schools, and for some reason people belive it. How does beliving in evolution say that you don't believe in Adam and Eve? Assuming that Adam and Eve were the first humans, which most people accept, then saying that believing in evolution means that you don't believe in them is paradox that disproves evolution in and of itself. If evolution states that we evolved from them over time into who we are today then saying that beliving evolution disproves them brings the whole shaky theory down.

By the way did you know that evolution cannot even be proven to be a theory?

Wow... I wonder why people resort to such falsehoods and illogic. Especially if they believe they have truth on their side.

Evolution certainly has not been "disproven" except to someone who is satisfied with total illogic like your contrived "paradox" about Adam and Eve.

Assuming Adam and Eve were the first people is doing a lot of assuming.
And "most' people are not even Christian. So going by what most people think then nothing in Christianity is true. But that is illogical....

One more. If evolution is taught as fact then that is the fault of the inadequate training in science that teachers received. Science is not about memorizing "facts". Evolution is a theory like all explanations in science.
And like all theories it is open to being disproved.
You can claim all you like that it has been but it hasnt.

 

[bibleblevr]

Your friend is right in the most part he has over simplified the thing but his point still stands.

I am so upset so many of you guys believe we can compromise on our christian beliefs. It makes me mad particularly when you talk of picking and choosing what you want in the bible!!!! The bible was a gift to man, it is true and complete, mistranslated in parts maybe, but! using your own worthless, so called wisdom to choose what part of the WORD OF GOD!!!!! to believe is the original sin itself, the belief that we are as good as god!!!

don't adapt the bible to fit evolution but do the reverse!!! I believe god created the world in 6 "days" but some days where not our solar days they where trillions of years but called a day because it was a period of actions. this explains cosmic evidence of evolution and the age of the earth.
as for all of those finches and such there is such thing as speciation or the slow drift to a similar sub-specis If animals couldn't change over time they would all be dead!! God doesn't make robots they are alive they change and they are beautifull in his eyes!

 

[Wiccan_Child]

don't adapt the bible to fit evolution but do the reverse!!! I believe god created the world in 6 "days" but some days where not our solar days they where trillions of years but called a day because it was a period of actions. this explains cosmic evidence of evolution and the age of the earth.
as for all of those finches and such there is such thing as speciation or the slow drift to a similar sub-specis If animals couldn't change over time they would all be dead!! God doesn't make robots they are alive they change and they are beautifull in his eyes!

You tell us not to adapt the Bible, yet that is exactly what you do: you twist the words of Genesis to fit established scientific fact. I could respect you a lot more if you stuck to your guns, rather than faff around with convoluted compromises.