Question on The Trinity

[Leah71]

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[ebia]

Thanks for the comments on the Bible translations.

I have another question that is likely more difficult. Do any of you have a good suggestion on a book/treatise about the Trinity? I realize I do not have a very good grasp on the concept of the Trinity.

Thank you for your time.

Really, trinity is something best lived with, rather than something suiting spelling out.

 

[Leah71]

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[ebia]

Oh well. Maybe I seek to "understand" too much. I admit I do not really grasp Quantum Physics and on a theological level I do not really get Daoism's (Taoism's) concept of the Dao (Tao).

Just something I need to learn to live with.

However, I do appreciate you (and any one else) taking the time to answer.

I don't mean that one shouldn't reflect on it, and hear some good voices on it.
But a lot of different perspectives with different kinds of approaches is more likely to be helpful than some attempt at a highly detailed analysis.

Most of the good stuff I've heard on trinity has been embedded in texts and lectures on more general ideas. Like the idea of thinking of trinity as a dance

 

[Leah71]

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[oi_antz]

The Holy Spirit and Jesus are easy to conceptualize and to understand as how we can know them individually. The Son: The Word of God (expression) in human form; The Holy Spirit: The comforter who reminds us of Jesus' teaching; However, The Father really is not defined so well and is generally regarded and described as something beyond our reach and something we cannot lay eyes on. This is why He has had to reach us in spirit and in flesh. Good luck, it's definitely a mind bender!

 

[Messy]

Thanks for the comments on the Bible translations.

I have another question that is likely more difficult. Do any of you have a good suggestion on a book/treatise about the Trinity? I realize I do not have a very good grasp on the concept of the Trinity.

Thank you for your time.

Michael Brown, he's on youtube and he wrote a book and debates Jewish rabbi's. He knows all about it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HaPRccvPLc
Jesus is the best Example of the Trinity. God with us, not only the Son with us, so the Trinity with us, yet most would think He was only one Person and in John you see that He is in the Father and the Father in Him and He was filled with the Spirit. When Philip asked Him to show him the Father He said: Am I with you so long and do you not know Me?

 

[Vollbracht]

In my opinion, Thomas Torrance is the most lucid. I would recommend "Christian Doctrine of God, One Being Three Persons".

Though I have not read it yet, Robert Letham's "The Holy Trinity: In Scripture, History, Theology, and Worship" has met good reviews.

Of course, the early fathers had much to say: Augustine, Hilary of Poitiers, the Cappadocian Fathers (link just a summary), etc.

Since I enjoyed it, I will throw in Sinclair Ferguson's "Equality and Priority..." as a nice comparison between the Eastern and Western Church, though it is a bit advanced.

 

[Leah71]

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[hedrick]

I am concerned about typical responses to questions about the Trinity. They normally try to explain it, but without saying why it’s there in the first place.

Christianity has the Trinity because Jesus showed us what God looked like, in a human form. John speaks of him as the Word made flesh. “The Word” was a Jewish way of speaking about God’s presence. The Synoptic Gospels are less theoretical. They show Jesus doing things that only God can do. Colossians speaks of him as the “image of the invisible God” in whom “the fullness of God was pleased to dwell.” These are different ways of saying that those who knew Jesus saw him as the embodiment of God. When we want to know what God is like, we look at Jesus.

But this changes our concept of God. Jesus was an obedient servant, who submitted to his Father and died for his people. If Jesus shows us God, then that means that God isn’t just the omnipotent creator, but that he is also the obedient son. God has within himself the experience of obedience. Hence he’s not asking us to do something he hasn’t done himself. When we have faith in God, God is in a position to help us be obedient servants, because he can show us and to a certain extent even give us his own fellowship between Father and Son.

The Trinity is basically this understanding that God has in himself fellowship. At least in the West, the Holy Spirit has been identified with the bond between Father and Son, perhaps the presence of the Father with the Son.

Note that this is all something within a single God. We don’t think the Son is a separate God, because Jesus is clear that God is one. He certainly would never have agreed at any idea that he was a second God. It wouldn’t make any sense, either, because then we’d have two ultimate powers in the universe, which is impossible. So we think Jesus shows us that the one God, creator of the universe, also experiences the obedient love of a servant.

Beyond that there is lots of language about persons and natures. But none of that makes any sense if you don’t start with this picture that God has within himself the experience of being both the creator and the obedient son, and the love between them. Three persons with one nature is how Christians came to speak of the fact that there is some kind of personal distinction within God. The final language was based on the philosophical terminology of the time. I wouldn’t worry too much if you don’t find it helpful, as long as you understand why we think the Trinity matters.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thanks for the comments on the Bible translations.

I have another question that is likely more difficult. Do any of you have a good suggestion on a book/treatise about the Trinity? I realize I do not have a very good grasp on the concept of the Trinity.

Thank you for your time.

Hi Leah,

While I have my own 'miniature' formulation about the Trinity, I think you could get a solid but brief explanation from theologian, Millard J. Erickson, in his book, Christian Theology, and also a much more advanced treatment in another of his books titled, Who's Tampering with the Trinity.

Peace, Leah

 

[Vollbracht]

Thanks again.

We are praying for you.

{Off Topic: Lao-Tzu went west. Is. 9:6 ~ Mt. 2:1-2, TaoTeChing ch. 42 ends with "教父" and note how chapter begins. Nevermind, just rambling.}

 

[AvgJoe]

Thanks for the comments on the Bible translations.

I have another question that is likely more difficult. Do any of you have a good suggestion on a book/treatise about the Trinity? I realize I do not have a very good grasp on the concept of the Trinity.

Thank you for your time.

Hi Leah71,

For questions about the Trinity, I always recommend Carm.org. They do a good job of explaining the Trinity. Following are links to the articles:

http://carm.org/trinity
http://carm.org/what-trinity
http://carm.org/dictionary-trinity
http://carm.org/christianity/christian-doctrine/another-look-trinity
http://carm.org/ontological-and-economic-trinity
And links to more articles on their site

 

[Job8]

Do any of you have a good suggestion on a book/treatise about the Trinity?

There is no book better than the Bible itself to show you the truth about the Trinity. So if you want to seriouly know what God has to say about the triune Godhead, please read the Bible (King James Version). Also get Nave's Topical Bible (KJV) which takes all the Scriptures and groups them by topics. Look under "God" and you will find all relevant Scriptures.
DO NOT WASTE TIME ON OTHER BOOKS AND WRITINGS.

I realize I do not have a very good grasp on the concept of the Trinity.

Nobody does, and anyone who claims to is simply lying. The fact of the matter is that the Trinity is called "the Mystery of God" and "the Mystery of Godliness". Human minds (finite, limited, and corrupted by sin) cannot possibly comprehend a God who is One, yet three Divine Persons who are co-equal and co-eternal.

At the same time there is an order of authority within the Godhead -- first God the Father, then God the Son, and then God the Holy Spirit. God does not expect us to "understand" this with our human minds. He simply asks us to believe it, because that is what He has revealed.

To know that there is indeed a Trinity which God has revealed, all you need to do is look at Matthew 28:19 (which is incontrovertibly the Word of God): "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"

Notice that "name" is singular, but three Divine Persons are named. That tells you that God is ONE yet THREE. Just believe it. Don't debate it. And don't let anyone tell you differently when God has revealed it.

 

[ephraimanesti]

Thanks for the comments on the Bible translations.

I have another question that is likely more difficult. Do any of you have a good suggestion on a book/treatise about the Trinity? I realize I do not have a very good grasp on the concept of the Trinity.

MY SISTER,

Well my dear I have news for you--nobody else has a very good grasp of the Trinity. What helps me to kind-of-sort-of visualize the workings of the Trinity is to keep in mind that we have been created in God's image and likeness.

So, working backwards, I look at myself and note that I, too, am a trinity--body, mind, and spirit in one person. So my best guess is that God, likewise has a Body, a Mind, and a Spirit which make up His Personhood. God the Father is the Mind of the Trinity--all wisdom and creative ideas come from and through Him. Secondly, God contains a Spirit who carries out God's Mind's ideas and plans. Lastly, the Trinity contains a Body--Jesus the Christ--who is the Spirit of God in a physical form through the auspices of the Virgin Mary. Jesus' manifest destiny consists of both showing what God is like--how He thinks, feels, and acts--and, secondly, making it possible for God's children--the peak of His creativity--to be re-created into the image and likeness of Jesus our Messiah.

Very rough sketch, but it helps me. Someone in another post stated that the Trinity should be felt rather than "understood" and this is right on.

IN CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[FireDragon76]

Oh well. Maybe I seek to "understand" too much. I admit I do not really grasp Quantum Physics and on a theological level I do not really get Daoism's (Taoism's) concept of the Dao (Tao).

They are a lot alike actually. Tao is not grasped. Trinity is not grasped. That's actually the whole point.

 

[hankroberts]

"Do any of you have a good suggestion on a book/treatise about the Trinity?"
Fisher Humphreys defines Theology as "Thinking about God". One of his earliest books is an introduction to theology by the same name. In it he has an excellent section on the Trinity. He is extremely readable, and personally one of the smartest and most clear thinkers I've ever known.
If you don't want to buy the book, I have a treatise I put together for another discussion, which summarizes his position, as well as a few notes on the subject by me. If you're willing to put up with the distraction of my comments I'll be happy to share it.

 

[orangeness365]

My guess is that it has something to do with the body of Christ. All Christians are considered a part of the body of Christ, but at first this is difficult to grasp, because isn't only Jesus the body of Christ? Yet all of them together form the body of Christ. Maybe the trinity has something to do with that?

Romans 12:4-5
4For as in one body we have many members,e and the members do not all have the same function, 5so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Outside of hard-hitting patristic sources such as those mentioned already (e.g. Augustine, Hillary of Poitiers), something perhaps a bit more down to earth might be helpful.

There's a very short book by Fr. Hans Urs von Balthasar titled Credo, it's a series of reflections and devotions on the Apostles' Creed. While not really what I'd say is a "primer" on the Trinity, I find Balthasar's language, the way he talks about the relationship(s) between the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit to be immensely helpful as a way of reflecting upon and thinking about the Trinity. Of course he never really gets into talking about the Trinity quite properly, as that isn't the point of the book, but as it reflects upon the reality of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit I'd say it is a helpful inclusion into anyone looking into the subject.

Though ebia offers a valid point. In a lot of ways the Christian understanding of God as Trinity isn't really or easily covered by dogmatics (as good and important as they are). In a lot of ways the Christian understanding of God as Trinity is like speaking of four-dimensional reality using three-dimensional language, it's incredibly limited. And the holistic experience of God in the Church as Trinity is at once a matter of articulated dogma and incomprehensible mystery; the Church's experience is both effable and ineffable.

-CryptoLutheran