Question on the Holy Spirit and Biblical Interpretation

[BobRyan]

Acts 17:11 "They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the apostle Paul - WERE SO"

not the Bible.

What part of "Scripture" is "not the Bible" according to the NT authors???

 

[BobRyan]

of course, we are all led by the Spirit, the Spirit who leads some to believe Baptism is needed for salvation and leads others to believe it is not. Give me a break.

That is your claim -- not mine.

I don't claim the Spirit leads anyone into doctrinal error - not even the Catholic Church.

 

[BobRyan]

and NO ONE interpreted the current scripture based on their own novel ideas.

"they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken by the Apostle Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11

Luke 24:27 Jesus preached "from all the scriptures" -

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Because Jesus is not the Father.

The Father Revealed
John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

 

[Albion]

Jesus was clear that it was the Father who sent Him.

Very well, but it's not "who sent Jesus" that is the issue. Rather, it's about the nature and identity of the Holy Ghost.

Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.

Same thing here.

That being said, turn now to the verses that speak to the nature and identity of the Holy Ghost and notice the difference in what's being said.

 

[Randy777]

Very well, but it's not "who sent Jesus" that is the issue. Rather, it's about the nature and identity of the Holy Ghost.


Same thing here.

That being said, turn now to the verses that speak to the nature and identity of the Holy Ghost and notice the difference in what's being said.

The nature of the Spirit of God is the Fathers.
Eternal, Divine, and only one. Jesus offered Himself through that eternal Spirit.

 

[Randy777]

The Father Revealed
John 14
7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.”
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”
9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

It is the Fathers deity that dwells in Jesus and in fact it was the Father living in Jesus doing His work.
They are one in that manner. Jesus and I are one.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

It is the Fathers deity that dwells in Jesus and in fact it was the Father living in Jesus doing His work.
They are one in that manner. Jesus and I are one.

So Jesus Christ of Nazareth is not God in the Flesh ? He does not hold the identity of Diety?
I do not subscribe to thus.
Thanks for sharing!

 

[Randy777]

So Jesus Christ of Nazareth is not God in the Flesh ? He does not hold the identity of Diety?
I do not subscribe to thus.
Thanks for sharing!

Nothing has changed.
Jesus is all that the Father is. The reflection of Gods glory and the exact imprint of Gods being.
This fullness is part of His being its just that it is the Fathers Deity (fullness) that dwells in Him.
"For in him all the fullness of was pleased to dwell," Gifted and from the will of another.

I can read and its not my difficulty.
Jesus-Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever!

 

[concretecamper]

"they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken by the Apostle Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11

Luke 24:27 Jesus preached "from all the scriptures" -

not the bible

 

[concretecamper]

That is your claim -- not mine.

I don't claim the Spirit leads anyone into doctrinal error - not even the Catholic Church.

I never said it was your claim...ugh

 

[concretecamper]

Acts 17:11 "They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by the apostle Paul - WERE SO"



What part of "Scripture" is "not the Bible" according to the NT authors???

I didnt say that any scripture is not part of the bible.

 

[Amittai]

Sola Scriptura

Those who admit Holy Scripture has much meaning, which is intended to be taught, help each other.

 

[Amittai]

In many areas we share this community with modern Catholicism. The main differences lie in areas where the Catholic commitment to inerrant tradition cause them to hold on to things that we think they would be better off to change.

They aren't a good illustration or comparison because of their recent plethora of foundationless inventions.

 

[Amittai]

it does matter if everyone's on the same page

Each person's insights increase as we share insights with each other. As I see it, the parable of the talents (which we are to trade with each other profitably) is about this.

‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.’

How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

I understand 'All truth' to mean all we need to know about salvation.

Sadly most churches have long given only lip service to "Another Comforter" whom Jesus sent at His Ascension. Reason, study, and Biblical scholarship should be playing a large role provided we don't "take away from the words of this Book" and its meanings.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
"they studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken by the Apostle Paul - WERE SO" Acts 17:11

Luke 24:27 Jesus preached "from all the scriptures" -

not the bible

"the scriptures" - are my Bible.

 

[Fidelibus]

Are there Christians who are being guided by the Holy Spirit in their interpretations of Scripture, who have belief systems that are not exactly the same?

Have a Blessed day!

 

[topher694]

This is mainly for protestants as the High Church folk believe that the Spirit guides their church hierarchy into all truth rather than the individual. What I do not understand and would like a well-reasoned answer to is that if the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth then why do two genuinely Spirit-filled believers come to differing interpretations of the Bible and theology? Related to this, why do genuinely Spirit-filled believers seem to come to interpretations that are objectively wrong? How does the Holy Spirit guide believers into truth and what role do reason, study, and Biblical scholarship play in all of this?

The issue here is you are conflating doctrine and truth. Doctrine is not truth. That it's not possible. The Spirit doesn't guide people to doctrine. Doctrine can reflect truth, but it can't BE truth. Jesus is truth. So being guided into truth is to be guided to Jesus. Truth then, is manifest in our character, our actions, how we live, how we treat others, in following Jesus's example.

It is impossible for man to completely know or understand God, otherwise we would BE God. By definition doctrine is about teaching. Therefore it is impossible to have complete teaching (doctrine) about God. It will always be flawed. 2 Tim 16 says that scripture is profitable for doctrine, meaning scripture is beneficial for teaching. If scripture has the ability to "improve" doctrine, that implies there is room for doctrine to improve, therefore it is not truth.

When any Christian interprets scripture we are doing our best to understand God in some way, but again, no one can completely understand God, that's not possible. We may understand in part. We may understand a layer or two or even ten, but we cannot understand God in His entirety. Which means we cannot have complete doctrine/understanding/interpretation... ie we are all wrong/incomplete to some degree.

Truth on the other hand, produces character, fruit, freedom, healing and salvation... THAT is what the Spirit is guiding us all to all the time. Where we all fail to some degree is in our ability to describe this truth to ourselves & others (doctrine) because we are incapable of understanding completely. However, as we grow in truth, we grow in understanding of Jesus's nature & character (because that is with truth guides us to) and when we grow in understanding Jesus's nature & character we are better equipped to understand scripture and thus develop more sound doctrine... In other word's one's doctrine will only be as mature as one's fruit. If someone claims to have great doctrinal understanding, or "proper" interpretation of scripture yet has bad fruit (questionable character), or no fruit, in their life... why should anyone listen to them? No matter how good their argument may sound? We know the true from the false by the fruit, not the doctrine.

 

[aspie3000]

The issue here is you are conflating doctrine and truth. Doctrine is not truth. That it's not possible. The Spirit doesn't guide people to doctrine. Doctrine can reflect truth, but it can't BE truth. Jesus is truth. So being guided into truth is to be guided to Jesus. Truth then, is manifest in our character, our actions, how we live, how we treat others, in following Jesus's example.

It is impossible for man to completely know or understand God, otherwise we would BE God. By definition doctrine is about teaching. Therefore it is impossible to have complete teaching (doctrine) about God. It will always be flawed. 2 Tim 16 says that scripture is profitable for doctrine, meaning scripture is beneficial for teaching. If scripture has the ability to "improve" doctrine, that implies there is room for doctrine to improve, therefore it is not truth.

When any Christian interprets scripture we are doing our best to understand God in some way, but again, no one can completely understand God, that's not possible. We may understand in part. We may understand a layer or two or even ten, but we cannot understand God in His entirety. Which means we cannot have complete doctrine/understanding/interpretation... ie we are all wrong/incomplete to some degree.

Truth on the other hand, produces character, fruit, freedom, healing and salvation... THAT is what the Spirit is guiding us all to all the time. Where we all fail to some degree is in our ability to describe this truth to ourselves & others (doctrine) because we are incapable of understanding completely. However, as we grow in truth, we grow in understanding of Jesus's nature & character (because that is with truth guides us to) and when we grow in understanding Jesus's nature & character we are better equipped to understand scripture and thus develop more sound doctrine... In other word's one's doctrine will only be as mature as one's fruit. If someone claims to have great doctrinal understanding, or "proper" interpretation of scripture yet has bad fruit (questionable character), or no fruit, in their life... why should anyone listen to them? No matter how good their argument may sound? We know the true from the false by the fruit, not the doctrine.

This is an interesting and good answer.

 

[The Liturgist]

This is mainly for protestants as the High Church folk believe that the Spirit guides their church hierarchy into all truth rather than the individual.

That’s not quite true. The prevailing belief among most of the traditional churches, such as the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, the Assyrian Church of the East, and traditional Protestants the Anglicans, the Moravians and the Lutherans, is that the Holy Spirit guides the entire Church.

Even among Roman Catholics, I think the correct interpretation is that the whole church is guided; the Magisterium is a collection of the guidance received by the Church which is binding on the bishops, rather than, for example, the consensus opinions of the day issued by the hierarchy which is binding on the faithful, which one sees in a number of highly centralized non-Christian religions like the Bahai, many branches of Islam, the Mormons, Christian Science, the Jehovahs Witnesses, et cetera.

Also, in Roman Catholicism, Papal Infallibility technically applies only to dogmatic definitions made by the Pope ex cathedra and has only happened twice, since adopted as a dogma at Vatican I in the 19th century.