Question on Old and New Testaments

[AlmostAdult]

I haven't been to a church in two-ish years, but only for a short time, and really I wasn't "part of the church" since I was about 8-12 yrs old

I've been going through the bible for all sorts of answers and now I have a question about the bible itself

What is the difference between the Old Testament and The New Testament?

My bible (in the introduction pages) says that the Old Testament is from 1500BC-400BC, and that the New Testament is from 45 AD-100 AD
But is time the only difference?

And why is there a gap between 400BC-45AD? Four hundred years before Jesus, and up till his death.

I would appreciate any answers! Please and thank you! God bless!

 

[minimag]

I think the 400 year gap is considered a period when God had no revelations to share,

the Old Testament evidently was complete. Jesus and the apostles quoted the Old

Testament often. There are many differences between the old and the new. This was

period when Israel and all nations were under the law which no one was able to keep.

It was a taskmaster to show people what sinners the were and how all fall short of

God's glory. But even then people were saved by faith. The nation of Israel was to

have been a beacon to the world for the one true God. They were judged often for

their rebellious sins. It was to point to the coming of Jesus and His sacrifice.

The New Testament shows Jesus as a living example of how to live, pray and receive

God's saving grace, again by faith. He was the image of God during His lifetime. Also,

He was crucified, dead and rose again so all could receive eternal life. He freed us from

the law which no one could keep. We are saved by grace and not of ourselves lest any

person should boast. He took our sins and punishment upon Himself and His blood

cleanses us from all sin.

There is much more I could write but I tried to just hit the main things. God bless.

 

[Bible2]

AlmostAdult said in post 1:

What is the difference between the Old Testament and The New Testament?

Nothing, with regard to them both being God's Word (2 Tim. 3:16-4:4).

But the Old "Testament" means the Old "Covenant", even though it includes prophecies regarding the New Covenant (e.g. Jer. 31:31-34, Isa. 53), just as the New "Testament" means the New "Covenant".

In the New Testament, the original Greek word translated as "testament" is "diatheke" (G1242), which means "covenant" (Heb. 12:24). The church is saved only by the New Covenant (1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 9:15, 12:24).

The Old Testament (the OT) foretold the New Covenant death of Jesus Christ for our sins & his rising from the dead on the 3rd day (Mt. 26:28, Acts 26:22-23, 1 Cor. 15:1-5, Lk. 24:44-47). His death for our sins was foretold in Isa. 53 (cf. Acts 8:32-35, 1 Pet. 2:24). His crucifixion experience was foretold in Ps. 22 (cf. Mt. 27:46,35). His not remaining dead was foretold in Ps. 16:10 (cf. Acts 2:31). His rising from the dead on the 3rd day was foretold in Hos. 6:2 (cf. 1 Cor. 15:4, Lk. 24:46, Col. 2:12). That Christ's New Covenant gospel (Mt. 26:28) would go forth to save both Jews & Gentiles was foretold in Isa. 49:6, 42:6 (cf. Acts 26:23b, Lk. 24:47). For some other examples of how Jesus fulfilled OT scriptures at his 1st coming: Jesus fulfilled Deut. 18:15,18,19 (cf. Acts 3:22-24, Lk. 24:44), Zech. 9:9 (cf. Mt. 21:4-5), Ps. 118:22 (cf. Acts 4:11), Isa. 9:1-2 (cf. Mt. 4:12-16), Ps. 110:4 (cf. Heb. 6:20).

On Jesus' cross, for both Jews and Gentiles (Jn. 11:51-52), of all times, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (the OCML) was disannulled (Heb. 7:18-19), abolished (Eph. 2:15-16, Col. 2:14-17, 2 Cor. 3:6-18), rendered obsolete (Heb. 8:13, Gal. 3:2-25, 4:21-5:8), taken away and replaced (Heb. 10:9) by the better hope (Heb. 7:19), the better covenant (Heb. 7:22, 8:6-12), the second covenant (Heb. 8:7, 10:9), of Jesus' New Covenant law (Gal. 6:2, Jn. 1:17, Mt. 26:28, Heb. 12:24, 9:15), so that the law was changed (Heb. 7:12). All believers, both Jews and Gentles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the OCML and shouldn't keep it (Rom. 7:6, 2 Cor. 3:6-18, Gal. 2:11-21) or have any desire to keep it (Gal. 4:21-5:8, 3:2-25). Believers keep the spirit of the OCML (Rom. 7:6) by loving others (Gal. 5:14, Rom. 13:8-10), by doing to others as they would have others do to them (Mt. 7:12).

The New Covenant is a new law (Heb. 7:12,18-19, 10:1-23), consisting of Jesus' New Testament commandments (Jn. 14:15), such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount (Mt. 5:19-7:29) and in the epistles of Paul the apostle (1 Cor. 14:37). These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the OCML (Mt. 5:20-48), so that there's no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the OCML (Gal. 3:2-5:26). It was just a temporary schoolmaster (Gal. 3:24-25), a temporary shadow (Col. 2:16-17), which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant and long before he brought that promise to fulfillment in Jesus' New Covenant (Gal. 3:16-29, Mt. 26:28). The letter of the OCML has been made obsolete by the New Covenant (the NC) (Heb. 8:13). For example, the letter of the OCML required an Aaronic priesthood (Ex. 30:30), whereas the NC replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood (Heb. 7:11-28). Also, the letter of the OCML required animal sacrifices (e.g. Lev. 23:19), whereas the NC replaced those with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus (Heb. 10).

The letter of the OCML is the Hagar to the NC's Sarah (Gal. 4:22-25), so that those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the OCML are like Ishmael, while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the NC are like Isaac (Gal. 4:22-31). The letter of the OCML (including the letter of the ten commandments), written and engraven in stones (2 Cor. 3:7, Deut. 4:13, 27:8), was the ministration of death and condemnation (2 Cor. 3:7,9; e.g. Lev. 20:10, Ex. 31:14, Num. 15:32-36; contrast the NC's Jn. 8:4-11, Mt. 12:1-8) which has been done away (2 Cor. 3:11), abolished (2 Cor. 3:13b), yet it's still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus (2 Cor. 3:14-16), whereas the NC is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness (2 Cor. 3:6,8,9b) which remains (2 Cor. 3:11b) and which permits believers to remove the veil and to behold Jesus (2 Cor. 3:16-18, Mk. 15:38, Heb. 7:18-19, Eph. 2:15-18, Col. 2:14-17).

 

[timf]

The Old Testament is mostly a record of the history of Israel. They were chosen by God and made a nation for the purpose of bringing the knowledge of God to the world.

What is recorded is a litany of failure.

It was recorded for our benefit;

1 Corinthians 10:5-11 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer. Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

It is interesting to note that Israel had about 2000 years to be faithful. What has been called the "church age" is also approaching 2,000 years. Paul said;

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Paul expected the "time of the Gentiles" to be short. He had every hope and expectation that the nation of Israel would be provoked to jealousy and turn and receive her King (Jesus) and that Jesus would return and rule from Jerusalem.

Jesus will return and rule from Jerusalem. Since the nation of Israel did not take advantage of the opportunity when they had the chance, what is written in Revelation will come to pass. For 3 1/2 years the antichrist will trick Israel into thinking he is the Messiah. At the point where he puts his own statue in a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, Israel is supposed to flee into the wilderness and be protected by God against the best efforts of the antichrist to kill them.

When Jesus returns in glory at the end of the second 3 1/2 year period, the Bible says that a nation will be born in a day. The Jews who fled Jerusalem and have been protected by God will be the new nation of Israel that is completely faithful and they will be the Israel that will fulfill all of the prophecies for the nation that have not yet been accomplished.

To understand the transition from the Old Testament to the New, you need to understand the seventy year period from the birth of Jesus until the destruction of the temple. This was a period when the Kingdom of God was offered to the nation of Israel. At any time, the nation could have turned to receive Jesus and all of the prophecies would still have been fulfilled.

If the nation had received Jesus at his birth, He would have grown and started teaching and the Roman army at some point would have become alarmed and come in to put Jesus to death. He would have been raised from the dead and gone on to rule the world from Jerusalem.

If Israel had turned to Jesus after His ascension, He would have returned and ruled from Jerusalem (just as Paul had hoped).

This is tricky because it deals with a "potential" situation. Every word that Jesus said was true regardless of what Israel did or did not do. Jesus didn't wink and say, "I know you guys are going to blow it, so here is the real plan".

In a way, the picture of Israel is similar to the picture of each of us. We have a legitimate offer of salvation and eternal life in Jesus. All we have to do is trust in Jesus. For most people, even those who claim to be Christian, this is too difficult. Just like the nation of Israel, we are too interested in our own affairs, the course of the world, and the desires of the flesh, to be able to put our trust in Jesus.

1 John 2:15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Jesus came proclaiming that the Kingdom of God was at hand. It still is for each of us. When Jesus said that his body and blood were being offered as a New Testament, He was saying that we enter into this covenant through a new life that we can have through Him. This is the new birth and we can become a new creation.

Paul contrasts the old life of trying to keep the law on our own and the frustration this brings in Romans chapter seven with the joy of life in the Spirit that a new life in Jesus brings in chapter eight. In a way, the difference between the Old Testament and the New is the difference between Romans chapter seven and chapter eight.

 

[Harry3142]

AlmostAdult-

There were books written in the years between 400 BC and 45 AD. They are called the apocryphal books, and can be found in the Bibles used by the Roman Catholic Church, and some translations intended for protestant usage. I have a Revised Standard Version Bible, Oxford Edition, which contains these books in my library.

The reason given for not including these books in most protestant Bibles is due to Judaism's not including them in its canonized collection of books of Holy Scripture (what we call the Old Testament). The reason given for their exclusion was due to their not being originally written in Hebrew, considered a sacred language. Instead they were originally written in Greek, and because of that were not included in their canonized list of books.

In order to comprehend the Old Testament we need to understand its purpose. That purpose was not seen as a 'roadmap to heaven' (many of them even today do not believe that there is an afterlife), but instead was seen as the accepting of laws and commandments which were purely societal in nature. IOW, The first five books (the Torah) were the background which led up to one of the first national constitutions, namely, the Mosaic Law. The Code of Hammurabi predates it by a few centuries, but the purpose for both was the same.

So long as the people were unified in keeping the laws and commandments of Torah their society would remain strong and cohesive. But should they abandon the following of those laws and commandments, choosing instead to follow after Baal and Molech (two idols popular at that time) their society would fragment and become easy prey for their enemies. Even the promise made to them as a reward for their keeping the laws and commandments of Torah was a purely pragmatic, here-and-now promise. You can read it in Deuteronomy 7:12-15.

But in the New Testament there was evidence that some of the Jews of that time period believed that there was an afterlife to be attained. The Pharisees were one of the sects of Judaism which believed this; the Sadducees did not. Instead, they believed that the only end for all men was that described in Genesis 3:19. We came from dust, and we were to return to dust.

Jesus Christ came among us with a good news/bad news message. The good news was that there was indeed an afterlife beyond this one. The bad news was that none of us would attain it if left to our own efforts. Our only means of attaining eternal life with God depended on our putting our trust in what God had already accomplished, rather than on what we might accomplish.

Some Scripture passages to read are these:

Matthew 19:16-26. Here Jesus Christ did the spiritual equivalent of throwing cold water into the faces of his disciples. Until then they had thought that if they obeyed certain laws and commandments they would make it into heaven. But Jesus taught them that was not the case. Instead, it depended on what God himself was able to do.

Luke 17:7-10. Here Jesus told his disciples that there was no such thing as going above and beyond the call of duty in their work for God. Whatever they did, and to whatever extent they did it, they were to see their actions as nothing more than what they were supposed to do, and for that reason unworthy of any reward.

John 10:14-18. Here Jesus identified himself as The Good Shepherd. The Good Shepherd willingly lays down his life for his sheep, and by so doing saves their lives at the cost of his own.

Romans 3:19-5:10. The righteousness that we need in order to enter God's presence cannot be earned as a salary, or purchased as an asset. It must be accepted as a gift, totally unearned and totally undeserved, but available to us purely because of God's infinite compassion.

Romans 10:5-13. Here the word 'faith' is defined. If we accept Jesus Christ as Lord, believe that God did indeed raise him from the dead, and confess this belief, we have salvation. Everything else must begin here. This is the only true foundation of Christianity.

Matthew 25:31-46. This is the strictest passage to be found in the entire New Testament. And note that Jesus Christ did not identify his followers as those who were pietistic, or legalistic, or ritualistic, or traditionalistic, or judgemental. Instead, he identified them as those who had seen the suffering of those around them, and did something to alleviate that suffering. Jesus Christ himself spent a lot of his time in alleviating the suffering he saw around him. He expected the same of those who called themselves his disciples. It was in their compassion for others that the genuineness of their faith was to be proven. And that way of proving our faith has not changed in the 2,000 years since he spoke these words.

 

[Bible2]

timf said in post 4:

What has been called the "church age" is also approaching 2,000 years.

In reality, there's no such thing as the church age, for the church will continue on the earth throughout all ages (Eph. 3:21). The church will continue on the earth throughout the future tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18/Mt. 24 (Mt. 24:9-13, Rev. 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4), & then throughout the subsequent millennium (Rev. 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29), & then forever on the new earth (Rev. 21:1-22:5).

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

When Paul says "until the fulness (pleroma) of the Gentiles be come in" (Rom. 11:25), he means until a full number of genetic Gentile individuals have become saved, which won't happen until right before Jesus' 2nd coming (Rom. 11:26), just as Lk. 21:24 shows "the times of the Gentiles" won't be "fulfilled (pleroo)" until the completion of the treading down of Jerusalem during the future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) (Rev. 11:2, 13:5-18) during the 2nd half of the future trib of Rev. chs. 6-18/Mt. 24. Immediately after the trib, at Jesus' 2nd coming (Mt. 24:29-30), all the unsaved elect genetic Jews will become saved (Rom. 11:26-28) by God's grace when they see the returned Jesus in person & believe in him (Zech. 12:10-14). And so they'll all become part of the church at that time, just as when genetic Jews believe in Jesus now they become part of the church, for there are now no believers outside of the church (Eph. 4:4-6).

And the genetic Jews who'll become believers at the 2nd coming will all become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, who's "the spirit of grace and of supplications" in Zech. 12:10 (Heb. 10:29c, Rom. 8:26), just as genetic Jewish believers today become part of the church by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit, for it's by receiving some measure of the Holy Spirit that both genetic Jewish believers & genetic Gentile believers become part of the church (1 Cor. 12:13).

Israel is supposed to flee into the wilderness and be protected by God against the best efforts of the antichrist to kill them.

Rev. 12's "woman" represents the church (which is Israel: Rom. 11:1,17,24, Eph. 2:12,19, Gal. 3:29, Rev. 21:9,12, 1 Pet. 2:9-10). She's clothed with the sun (Rev. 12:1) of righteousness (Mal. 4:2) through her faith in Jesus (Rom. 3:22), just as later we see the church clothed with righteousness (Rev. 19:8). The moon under her feet (Rev. 12:1) represents Satan under her feet (Rom. 16:20) as she overcomes him spiritually by her faith in Jesus (Rev. 12:11). The crown of 12 stars on her head (Rev. 12:1) represents the 12 apostles (Mt. 10:2-4, Acts 1:16-26) who have been placed over the church (1 Cor. 12:28). Her giving birth to the "man child" and his being caught up to the throne of God (Rev. 12:5) immediately before she flees into the wilderness for a literal 3.5 years (Rev. 12:6) represents the future, mid-tribulation catching up of the 144,000 male-virgins part of the church in their mortal bodies to the throne of God in heaven (Rev. 14:1,4-5, TR) (like Enoch & Elijah were caught up in their mortal bodies to heaven: Heb. 11:5, 2 Kin. 2:11).

Her fleeing into and remaining in a protected wilderness place for a literal 3.5 years (Rev. 12:6,14) represents those in the church who will flee into and remain in divinely-protected wilderness places during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Rev. 13:5-18), which will be in the latter half of the future tribulation of Rev. chs. 6-18/Mt. 24. The remnant of her seed (Rev. 12:17) represents those in the church during that time who won't flee into wilderness places, but will remain in the cities, and will be persecuted in every nation, imprisoned, and beheaded by the Antichrist (Rev. 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4-6, Mt. 24:9-13).

 

[Bible2]

Harry3142 said in post 5:

Luke 17:7-10. Here Jesus told his disciples that there was no such thing as going above and beyond the call of duty in their work for God. Whatever they did, and to whatever extent they did it, they were to see their actions as nothing more than what they were supposed to do, and for that reason unworthy of any reward.

That's right.

For it's impossible to believe or continue to believe all the right things apart from God's miraculous gift of faith (Eph. 2:8, Jn. 6:65, Heb. 12:2) & some measure of his Spirit (1 Cor. 1:18-2:16), just as it's impossible to perform or continue to perform all the right actions as believers apart from God making it possible for believers to do that (Philip. 2:12-13, Jn. 15:4-5), & just as it's impossible to repent if a sin is committed apart from God making it possible to do that (2 Tim. 2:25, Acts 11:18, Rom. 8:13). So even if believers do continue to believe, act, & repent as they ought to, they must stay so humble that they never give themselves any credit or glory (Lk. 17:10, Gal. 6:14, 1 Cor. 1:31). But at the judgment of the church, at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will give them some credit (Mt. 25:21). Also, God does glorify saved people (e.g. Rom. 8:30).

Romans 3:19-5:10. The righteousness that we need in order to enter God's presence cannot be earned as a salary, or purchased as an asset. It must be accepted as a gift, totally unearned and totally undeserved, but available to us purely because of God's infinite compassion.

While initial salvation is by grace through faith without works (Rom. 4:1-5, Eph. 2:8-9, Titus 3:5), initially saved people must have both faith and continued works of faith (1 Thes. 1:3, Gal. 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law) if they're to obtain ultimate salvation (Rom. 2:6-8, Jas. 2:24, Mt. 7:21, 25:26,30, Philip. 2:12b, 3:11-14, 2 Cor. 5:9, Heb. 5:9, 6:10-12, 2 Pet. 1:10-11, Jn. 15:2a). For believers must actually continue to do righteous deeds if they're to continue to be righteous (1 Jn. 3:7, Jas. 2:24,26). But there's no assurance that believers will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Mt. 25:26,30, Jn. 15:2a).

 

[hedrick]

The OT is about Israel. Israel was created to embody God's will and be his image, and bringing this to the rest of the world. The OT is the history of that attempt. It was largely, though not entirely, a failure. The NT is the story of Christ. It's called a new testament (covenant) because Jesus is carrying out the mission from Jer 31:31 of establishing a new covenant, written in our hearts. Jesus and his followers are the new Israel, carrying out the original mission of embodying God's word and restoring his image. (They are not exactly replacing the old Israel, but rather acting more like the leaven in a batch of bread to renew it.)

 

[Harry3142]

Bible 2-

I notice that you ignored Matthew 25:31-46. Do you believe that to be the task of someone else rather than your own? After all, it is the 'work' that Jesus Christ himself said in the strictest terms was to be performed.

 

[Bible2]

Harry3142 said in post 9:

Do you believe that to be the task of someone else rather than your own?

No. But it needs to be remembered that Jesus isn't concerned only with any physical hunger & nakedness of his brethren (Mt. 25:37-40, Lk. 12:23, Acts 6:2), for even those of his brethren who are physically well-fed & clothed can still be in great need of his spiritual food & clothing (Rev. 3:17-19, Jn. 6:27, Mt. 4:4, 2 Tim. 4:2-4).

---

post 5:

Jesus Christ came among us with a good news/bad news message.

That's right.

Regarding the good news (also called the gospel), the gospel of our salvation (Eph. 1:13) is that we can be initially saved by believing that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ and the human/divine Son of God (Jn. 20:31, 3:36, 1 Jn. 2:23), and that he died on the Cross for our sins and rose from the dead on the 3rd day (1 Cor. 15:1-4, Lk. 24:46-47, Mt. 20:19, 26:28). And that we can be ultimately saved if we continue to believe this to the end (Heb. 3:6,12,14, Col. 1:23), and continue to perform good works of faith to the end (Rom. 2:6-8, 1 Thes. 1:3), and repent from any sin that we might commit to the end (Heb. 10:26-29), and get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus (Mk. 16:16, Rom. 6:3-11), and partake of Jesus' flesh and blood in the bread and wine of communion (Jn. 6:53, 1 Cor. 11:23-30), and forgive everyone for everything (Mt. 6:14-15), and reconcile as much as possible with everyone whom we have ever wronged and who could still be holding a grudge against us (Mt. 5:23-26, Rom. 12:18), and help Christians in need (Mt. 25:34-46), and provide for our families (1 Tim. 5:8), and don't blaspheme the Spirit (Mk. 3:29), and don't remove words from the book of Revelation (Rev. 22:19), and don't worship the future Antichrist or his image or willingly receive his mark (Rev. 14:9-12), and continue in God's goodness to the end (Rom. 11:22), and overcome to the end (Rev. 3:5, 2:26).

Amen.

 

[Bible2]

hedrick said in post 8:

It's called a new testament (covenant) because Jesus is carrying out the mission from Jer 31:31 of establishing a new covenant, written in our hearts. Jesus and his followers are the new Israel, carrying out the original mission of embodying God's word and restoring his image. (They are not exactly replacing the old Israel, but rather acting more like the leaven in a batch of bread to renew it.)

That's right.

Even though the church is Israel (Rev. 21:9,12, 1 Pet. 2:9-10), the church doesn't "replace" Israel, because Gentiles in the church are grafted in to become only parts of an already-existing Israel (Rom. 11:17,24, Eph. 2:12,19, Gal. 3:29, Jn. 10:16) which also includes the Jews in the church (Rom. 11:1).

 

[salida]

Why is God so different in the OT than He is in the NT?
Old Testament vs. New Testament - What are the differences?


Why should we study the Old Testament?
Why should we study the Old Testament?

 

[Bible2]

timf said in post 4:

Jesus will return and rule from Jerusalem.

Amen.

For while presently the kingdom of God is in heaven (2 Tim. 4:18, Heb. 12:22-24), and is on the earth spiritually within Christians (Rom. 14:17, Lk. 17:21), in the future the kingdom will come fully upon the earth as it is in heaven (Mt. 6:10). It will be physically (Lk. 22:30, Mt. 19:28) on the earth (Rev. 5:10), first during the future millennium (Rev. 20:4-6, 2:26-29, Ps. 66:3-4, 72:8-11, Zech 14:3-21) and then on the new earth (Rev. 21:1-8).

And Jesus' kingdom is Israel (Jn. 1:49, 12:13-15, 19:19, Lk. 22:30). That's why at his 2nd coming he will sit on the earthly throne of David (Lk. 1:32-33, Isa. 9:7) and restore the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6-7, 3:20-21). Jesus is, in his humanity, the son of David (Mt. 1:1, 21:15-16, Rom. 1:3), of the house of David (Lk. 1:69). So at Jesus' 2nd coming, he will restore the tabernacle, the house, of David (Isa. 16:5, Amos 9:11), to its royal glory (2 Sam. 5:12), which it had lost (2 Kin. 17:21a), and Jesus will fulfill the prophecy and prayer of 2 Sam. 7:16-29. And he will bring salvation to all the unbelieving elect Jews of the house of David, for they (along with all other unbelieving elect Jews) will come into faith in him when they see him at his 2nd coming (Zech. 12:10-14, 13:1,6, Rom. 11:26-31). And so they will all become part of the church at that time, for there are no believers outside of the church (Eph. 4:4-6).

After Jesus' 2nd coming (Rev. 19:7-20:3, Zech. 14:3-5) will occur the millennium (Rev. 20:4-6, Zech. 14:8-21), during which, Gentile nations will come to seek the returned Jesus ruling the whole earth (Zech. 8:22, 14:9, Ps. 72:8-11) on the restored throne of David (Isa. 9:7) in the earthly Jerusalem (Isa. 2:1-4, Zech. 14:8-11,16-19). And the bodily resurrected church will reign on the earth with the returned Jesus during the millennium (Rev. 20:4-6, 5:10, 2:26-29).

For all those in the church who are genetic Jews remain Israel (Rom. 11:1), & all those in the church who are genetic Gentiles have been grafted into Israel (Rom. 11:17,24, Eph. 2:12,19, Gal. 3:29). So the entire church is Israel (Rev. 21:9,12, 1 Pet. 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Mt. 26:28, 1 Cor. 11:25, 2 Cor. 3:6, Heb. 9:15), & the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jer. 31:31-34, Jn. 4:22b). Jn. 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Cor. 12:13, Eph. 4:4-6, Rev. 21:9,12). Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Rom. 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Rom. 2:29, Philip. 3:3, Col. 2:11-13).

 

[Bible2]

Harry3142 said in post 5:

Jesus Christ came among us with a good news/bad news message. The good news was that there was indeed an afterlife beyond this one. The bad news was that none of us would attain it if left to our own efforts.

That's right.

Also, the bad news is that the Bible doesn't teach OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved), but that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only "if" they continue in the faith to the end (Heb. 3:6,12,14, Col. 1:23), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Lk. 8:13, 1 Tim. 4:1, 2 Tim. 4:3-4, 2 Thes. 2:3, Heb. 3:12, Mt. 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Heb. 6:4-8, Jn. 15:6, 2 Tim. 2:12b, Mk. 8:35-38, Heb. 10:38-39, Mt. 24:9-13).

Also, even if they do continue in the faith, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also patiently continue to the end in obedience and good works (Rom. 2:6-8, Jas. 2:24, Mt. 7:21, Philip. 2:12b, 2 Cor. 5:9, Heb. 5:9, 2 Pet. 1:10-11, Heb. 6:10-12, Philip. 3:11-14, 1 Jn. 2:17b) of faith (1 Thes. 1:3, Gal. 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Mt. 25:26,30, Jn. 15:2a).

Also, even if they do continue in faith and good works of faith, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also continue to repent from every sin that they might commit to the end (Heb. 10:26-29, 1 Cor. 9:27, Mt. 7:22-23, Gal. 5:19-21), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to commit unrepentant sin, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Lk. 12:45-46, 2 Pet. 2:20-22, Rom. 8:13, 1 Jn. 5:16, Jas. 5:19-20).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus' death for our sins (Mk. 16:16, 1 Pet. 3:21, Rom. 6:3-11, Col. 2:12, Gal. 3:27, Acts 2:38), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (cf. Acts 22:16a).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they partake of the divine flesh and blood of communion (Jn. 6:53, Mt. 26:26-28, 1 Cor. 10:16, 11:27-30), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (cf. Jn. 6:60,66).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they forgive everyone for every wrong (Mt. 6:14-15), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Mt. 18:21-35).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they do all that they can (Rom. 12:18) to be reconciled to everyone whom they have ever wronged and who could still be holding a grudge against them (Mt. 5:23-26, cf. Acts 24:16), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that.

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they help Christians in need (Mt. 25:34-46), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (3 Jn. 1:10b).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they provide for their families (1 Tim. 5:8), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't commit the unforgivable sin, which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Mk. 3:29). An example of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is saying that an act performed by the power of the Holy Spirit (e.g. Mt. 12:28) is performed by Satan (Mk. 3:22-30). There's no assurance that initially saved people will never choose to say that (cf. 1 Cor. 14:39b, 1 Thes. 5:19).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't remove words from the text of the book of Revelation and publish the altered text as if it were the original, without repentance (Rev. 22:19). There's no assurance that they will never choose to do that (cf. 2 Cor. 4:2).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't worship the future Antichrist and his image, and willingly receive his mark on their right hand or forehead (Rev. 14:9-12, 13:16-18). There's no assurance that they will never choose to do that (1 Tim. 4:1).

Initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they continue in God's goodness to the end (Rom. 11:20-22), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Lk. 12:45-46).

Initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they overcome to the end (Rev. 3:5, 2:26), and there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Rev. 21:7-8).

All this is said not to engender any unhealthy fear in believers, but the healthy fear which all believers are supposed to have (e.g. Rom. 11:20-22).

 

[AlmostAdult]

I'm so glad to have gotten such great replies from everyone. But while searching I've found that certain churches don't follow the Old Testament or the New Testament, just one. And they have pretty good reason. Things like condoning slavery and stuff.

Would it be wise to pick and chose? I can't possible condone things said in either Testament (slavery, sexism, etc). Is there a church I could join that would allow me the right to pick and choose the right verses, the good ones? I know some stories are supposed to be metaphors, but the ones about Slavery (OT) and Sexism (NT) are clearly very literal and speak of the specifics.

This has bothered me quite a bit the last week or so.

Please, thank you, and God bless!

 

[dysert]

I'm so glad to have gotten such great replies from everyone. But while searching I've found that certain churches don't follow the Old Testament or the New Testament, just one. And they have pretty good reason. Things like condoning slavery and stuff.

Would it be wise to pick and chose? I can't possible condone things said in either Testament (slavery, sexism, etc). Is there a church I could join that would allow me the right to pick and choose the right verses, the good ones? I know some stories are supposed to be metaphors, but the ones about Slavery (OT) and Sexism (NT) are clearly very literal and speak of the specifics.

This has bothered me quite a bit the last week or so.

Please, thank you, and God bless!

I don't know of a church where you could "pick and choose the right verses" (though there probably are some). The fact is that *all* of the Bible is God's Word (2 Tim. 3:16 --> "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"). Certainly, some of it is harder to understand than others, but that doesn't mean you throw the baby out with the bathwater.

And the Bible does *not* condone slavery or sexism. Just because such things are mentioned in the Bible doesn't mean that they're condoned.

I don't think it would be wise to pick and choose. God has inspired what He had written for a reason. Instead of ignoring some of it, I think it's better to try to understand all of it. If there are particular passages that you're having difficulty with, why not post them so that others can help you understand them better?

 

[AlmostAdult]

Well, I just don't know if I can say that I approve "11. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. 12. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 12. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. (1 Tim.)" of being something I want to live by. This is part of the NT! The one that everyone goes to.

It seems pretty straight forward, but I just can't live by those verses.

But I do want to live by other versus! To remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (exodus 20:8), to honour thy father and thy mother (verse 12), to not kill, commit adultery, not steal, to not bear false witness (13-16).

But in chapter 21 of Exodus it says, "Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot." (24) which we all know of as Eye for an Eye. But the verse right after it (26, actually) says "And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish, he shall let him go free for his eyes's sake", in turn saying, "Eye for an eye is fine except for slaves, slaves are worthless."

And of course everyone knows about the verses that tell of how to sell your daughter as a slave, and the ones that say "If he rapes a woman, he is to pay so much money to the father and keep the daughter as his bride because now that she is deflowered who else would want her?"

But there are still so many good things from the bible to learn from! I don't want to treat the Bible like trail mix and pick and chose my favorite parts, but the only other option is to drop the bible completely and live by my own chosen standards.
And I don't know if I can do that, either! D8 I'm really quite frightened. I don't want this to end me up in Hell, but I know better than some of the things I've read in this book. I can't just go and stone a non-believer! D:

 

[Radagast]

But while searching I've found that certain churches don't follow the Old Testament or the New Testament, just one.

Christian churches follow both, but read the Old Testament in the light of what the New Testament says.

Things like condoning slavery and stuff.

In New Testament times, slavery was a way of life, and nothing could be done about it. I wouldn't describe New Testament teachings on the subject as "condoning" slavery. In fact, the teachings of the New Testament eventually led to slavery being abolished.

Is there a church I could join that would allow me the right to pick and choose

No.

 

[AlmostAdult]

But, I thought the Jews used the Old Testament and not the New one? And they follow the same God as we do. Just not Jesus. (Which is understandable, they thought he was a false prophet and didn't want to ruin their God's image with someone they thought was a con artist.)

Well, can we not take those parts OUT of the bible, then? It's not a way of life anymore. (I guess except people like the KKK still have strict beliefs), but I know the bible has been edited for the public before. Granted, it was a very long time ago, but we also use to put in textbooks one thing until it was proven bad and we changed it out for good. We could do the same here, right?

And, also... I would like to be part of a church, but I just can't find one that works. The only ones with teachings close to what I believe in don't follow the correct God, or they don't follow one at all, or have more than one God.