Question on LCMS/AALC fellowship

[BigNorsk]

I was wondering something, which I know is a dangerous thing. Anyway, I let it sit for awhile but it still tickles and I haven't seen a thing that explains it.

Anyway, I know the LCMS and the AALC voted for full fellowship, but I was a bit surprised that something like 30% of the LCMS delegates voted against it.

Why?

I understand if no one knows or doesn't want to talk about it. But I've thought about it a fair amount and done some reading and couldn't come up with any reasons myself. And 30 percent is really quite a large minority in such a situation. So I was wondering if people just didn't think their questions were answered, or if there really wasn't any questions but they voted against it anyway or what?

I'm just trying to fit that piece into my mental puzzle of how Lutheranism is doing and I haven't been able to find a place that it fits.

Marv

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Good Question, I did not know that.

Now you have me thinking; since LCC is in fellowship with LCMS, are we then by default in fellowship with AALC?

 

[BigNorsk]

I would think you would be, after all that was one of the reasons given why the WELS broke with the LCMS, those whom they were in fellowshiip.

Why didn't you vote at the same time?

Marv

 

[DaRev]

While I'm not at all certain, I think that some were concerned with the AALC's charasmatic history. I think they feared that it would rear it's ugly head again.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I would think you would be, after all that was one of the reasons given why the WELS broke with the LCMS, those whom they were in fellowshiip.

Why didn't you vote at the same time?

Marv

So if that was around the time of the WELS break, then that would have been before the formation of LCC, so we would have still been LCMS at the time. If that's the time frame, then that would put us in fellowship.

 

[DaRev]

So if that was around the time of the WELS break, then that would have been before the formation of LCC, so we would have still been LCMS at the time. If that's the time frame, then that would put us in fellowship.

The LCMS/AALC fellowship was declared in 2007.

 

[BigNorsk]

I didn't mean the WELS break has any effect on this one. Just that one of the reason that the WELS gave for breaking fellowship with the LCMS was the fact that the LCMS was in fellowship with the ALC and then I think the ALC was in fellowship with some satanists or something, I don't really remember, I was too young.

Anyway, with the LCC it's probably the old country borders thing. When you go into other countries as far as which synods are in fellowship with others, it gets a bit funky shall we say. I know I've run into a couple where you could make the case the LCMS and the ELCA are in fellowship through those they are in fellowship with. For instance the Lutheran Church in the Philippines in a member of both the International Lutheran Council and the Lutheran World Federation. How they work that or maybe don't work that I don't know, but it's led to the big problem we discussed recently where some pastors were expecting to go to prison for not communing people. It's like you have strict LCMS and ELCA tied togeher in the same church.

And they aren't the only ones either. I remember there's one in India that is a member of both. Maybe membership doesn't mean felllowship, but it seems to.

In any case, I guess you are in fellowship with the AALC because you are both a part of the International Lutheran Council back to the membership being fellowship. I'm not that familiar as far as that means full fellowship or not but I thought it did. And you'd be in fellowship with the Lutheran World Federation through those synods that are members of both, just like the LCMS.

Marv

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Since we were LCMS at the time, and LCMS is in full fellowship, then we are also.

Pastor Seth, from the Philippines inquired about migrating to Canada, and what his status would be. Our former Synodical President informed him that he would have to go through the Colloquy process in order to be eligible for ministry in LCC. I wonder if this would be the case with LCMS?

 

[QuiltAngel]

I thought that the WELS and LCMS fellowship was broken back in the 60's over the LCMS and ALC fellowship. The ALC is not the AALC. Didn't the AALC start in the late 80's after the merger of the ALC, LCA and ELC?

 

[DaRev]

Since we were LCMS at the time, and LCMS is in full fellowship, then we are also.

Like I said, The AALC and LCMS declared altar/pulpit fellowship in 2007. I think the LCC existed then.

I'm not sure of the fellowship policies of the LCC. The AALC is not listed as a "partner church" of the LCC even though both are members of the ILC.

 

[BigNorsk]

I thought that the WELS and LCMS fellowship was broken back in the 60's over the LCMS and ALC fellowship. The ALC is not the AALC. Didn't the AALC start in the late 80's after the merger of the ALC, LCA and ELC?

You are correct.

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

Whereas LCMS struggles to maintain a consistent communion policy of "close" or "closed", TAALC practices "a responsible communion" which in the minds of some LCMSers sounds too close for comfort to being "open". But then you are only talking about 75 congregations in TAALC. So don't expect it to get the same high level of scrutiny as Mega-Missouri.

Peace,

Cos

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Like I said, The AALC and LCMS declared altar/pulpit fellowship in 2007. I think the LCC existed then.

I'm not sure of the fellowship policies of the LCC. The AALC is not listed as a "partner church" of the LCC even though both are members of the ILC.

You are correct! On all counts.

Now, when the AALC was admited to the ILC, Our Synod President, was I believe, President of the ILC (Dr. Ralph Mayan).

I'll have to email my Pastor and ask.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Like I said, The AALC and LCMS declared altar/pulpit fellowship in 2007. I think the LCC existed then.

I'm not sure of the fellowship policies of the LCC. The AALC is not listed as a "partner church" of the LCC even though both are members of the ILC.

You are correct! On all counts.

Now, when the AALC was admited to the ILC, Our Synod President, was I believe, President of the ILC (Dr. Ralph Mayan).

I'll have to email my Pastor and ask.

I just talked to my Pastor.

LCC is not in fellowship with AALC. We are however in fellowship with most of the Synods in the ILC.

That being the case, neither he nor I can figure out where this leaves LCC and LCMS.

Dr. Mayan was our Synod President, and President of the ILC at the time AALC joined.

I guess we'll leave that up to the political types to figure out.

 

[DaRev]

That being the case, neither he nor I can figure out where this leaves LCC and LCMS.

Why would there be a question there?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Why would there be a question there?

There are those who are of the opinion that we should not be in fellowship with a Synod that is in fellowship with a group that we are not. (not my opinion by the way)

 

[BigNorsk]

Wouldn't many of those ILC synods you are in fellowship with, also be in fellowship with LCMS?

Marv

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Wouldn't many of those ILC synods you are in fellowship with, also be in fellowship with LCMS?

Marv

Certainly most, if not all.

Until this thread, I never gave it much thought.