Question on Gun Control - real life question asking for practical answers.

[rambot]

What does that look like in real life - how do you tract and enforce it?

Sellerr is responsible for vetting buyer or be legally culpable?

 

[Oompa Loompa]

If someone steals your car and kills someone with it, that is not your fault, though if you left the keys in it you might have a civil cuit. Guns will always be stolen, even the Federal Government has had guns stolen directly from them. Narcotics that kill are also stolen from hopsitals, clinics, pharmacies etc and they also kill (perhaps more than guns I imagine) So to put the blame on responsible gun owners for a theft of their gun seems unfair. A state could define responsible gun ownership though but it should not be allowed to infringe on the right of self protection. For instance, to protect yourself you can't have every gun in a safe all the time and still defend yourself from sudden threats. However, to leave a gun unlocked in a home where minors are seems justified for some regulation. The law would have to be crafted very carefully though. Perhaps some states have these laws now?
Also, currently there is no requirement for reporting a stolen gun. That seems strange to me. Many do self-report, but it is not required.
Here is the raw data though on how many guns are not registered. It is rare if they are. I imagine too that even of the 6 million, many have already been transfered from the registered owner to another person, perhaps even several times.

• Self-reported gun ownership in America increased by 28% from 1994 to 2023.
• Based on NICS background data and manufacturing records, it is estimated that there are 500 million civilian-owned firearms in the U.S.
• Only 6.06 million firearms are registered in America (the U.S. does not require registration for all firearms).

How Many Gun Owners are in America? (2025 Statistics)

How many gun owners are there in America in 2024? We'll break down the numbers in this article.

ammo.com

You have raised a good point, and is worth consideration.

 

[DaisyDay]

A national gun registry has been spoken of.

• Second Amendment Rights: Many opponents believe a registry infringes on the right to keep and bear arms by enabling future restrictions or confiscation.

Additionally there are over 500,000,000 million civilian firearms in America. The law abiding will more likely than not - the criminal definitely will not. Sort of like locking the door after the house was robbed.

The Second Amendment does mention "a well regulated militia" as a reason for its being.

If someone steals your car and kills someone with it, that is not your fault, though if you left the keys in it you might have a civil cuit.

If someone steals your car, you report it stolen and turn in your registration. We could have the same thing with guns - if yours gets stolen, report the theft and cancel the registration. If someone is killed before reporting and deregistration, an investigation is warranted for either the car or the gun.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

Hey, I suggested something like that a while ago, and was told by many pro-second amendment types that it was a bad idea, unamerican, etc. Glad to see the idea come back, I'd support it.

-- A2SG, see, common ground...was that so difficult?

It is not a popular opinion. But i believe that just because you have a constitutional right to own guns, it doesnt mean you have the constitutional right to be an irresponsible gun owner without consequences. I am in the camp that believes that to own a gun is to assume a huge responsibility. With that comes heavy accountability. And if someone is unwilling or unable to assume that responsibility/accountability, then they probably shouldn't own a gun lest they are willing to face severe penalties.

 

[durangodawood]

It is not a popular opinion. But i believe that just because you have a constitutional right to own guns, it doesnt mean you have the constitutional right to be an irresponsible gun owner without consequences. I am in the camp that believes that to own a gun is to assume a huge responsibility. With that comes heavy accountability. And if someone is unwilling or unable to assume that responsibility/accountability, then they probably shouldn't own a gun lest they are willing to face severe penalties.

I do believe thats the ethic one should have re gun ownership.

But the wording of the 2A does seem to indicate that any legislation toward responsibility is prohibited. "Shall not be infringed". So any conditions attached to this right would be out of bounds. Scotus disagrees with this plain reading of the words, thankfully.

 

[Belk]

It is not a popular opinion. But i believe that just because you have a constitutional right to own guns, it doesnt mean you have the constitutional right to be an irresponsible gun owner without consequences. I am in the camp that believes that to own a gun is to assume a huge responsibility. With that comes heavy accountability. And if someone is unwilling or unable to assume that responsibility/accountability, then they probably shouldn't own a gun lest they are willing to face severe penalties.

This is why I advocate for returning gun training to public schools. If we are going to have a gun culture let's ensure we have proper training on handling and responsibility.

 

[Oompa Loompa]

I do believe thats the ethic one should have re gun ownership.

But the wording of the 2A does seem to indicate that any legislation toward responsibility is prohibited. "Shall not be infringed". So any conditions attached to this right would be out of bounds. Scotus disagrees with this plain reading of the words, thankfully.

I dont think so. The right to gun ownership will not be infringed. That doesnt mean people are entitled to irresponsible ownership. People would not be punished for owning a gun, but because their irresponsibly threatens public safety.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Sellerr is responsible for vetting buyer or be legally culpable?

How do you know it was sold?

How do you know the person owned it in the first place - only 6 of 500 million are registered. There is 494,000,000 out there not registered.

 

[rambot]

How do you know it was sold?

How do you know the person owned it in the first place - only 6 of 500 million are registered. There is 494,000,000 out there not registered.

Yes. Without registering individual units, its quite hard to regulate them in ANY way I suppose.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Yes. Without registering individual units, its quite hard to regulate them in ANY way I suppose.

Agreed - but that is not practical in the US for reasons already stated.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I applaud your trust in law abiding citizens - but how do we track it? How does the government know when a gun changes hands? How does an individual make sure the proper forms are filed?

Mandatory registration. You have some kind of grace period, maybe a year or two depending on the logistics involved, in which people are free to come in and register their weapons, after which anybody found in possession of an unregistered weapon is guilty of a crime.

I'd even be open to an "oopsie" clause that allows people to register weapons after the window closes, with no questions asked, so long as they do it voluntarily.

All newly-created weapons should have their serial numbers and rifling patterns logged. It's probably unreasonable to log rifling patterns of existing weapons, but logging the new ones is better than nothing.

Then all transfers require checks and logging through an FFL dealer.

Agreed - but that is not practical in the US for reasons already stated.

It's more practical than a lot of things we do. All it takes is money and willpower. We manage to stage elections every other year that are way more resource intensive than a gun registration.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Mandatory registration. You have some kind of grace period, maybe a year or two depending on the logistics involved, in which people are free to come in and register their weapons, after which anybody found in possession of an unregistered weapon is guilty of a crime.

500,000,000 weapons - a whopping 0.028% of which are used in some type of crime. That leave 99.972% of that 500 million never used for criminal activity.

Let me explain - I have x number of weapons in my home right now - not one of which is registered - why? Because I don't have to. I'm not alone - there are tens of millions of gun owners just like me. How does the Government know what I do and do not have? There is no way for them to know.

What if someone changes their barrel?

In addition, it has been suggested and roundly defeated for reasons already cited. But your post bring something else up I would like to ask about.

All newly-created weapons should have their serial numbers and rifling patterns logged. It's probably unreasonable to log rifling patterns of existing weapons, but logging the new ones is better than nothing.

According to the ATF

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/report/2024firearmscommercereportpdf/download

Between 9.9 million and 13 million weapons are manufactured each year.

Picture what would be needed to build a database that would house 500,000,000 current weapons and 9-13 million additional weapons a year that would actively track them from manufacturer to subsequent owners - giving access to 3,142 counties and innumerable police departments.

While it is not a bad idea - I doubt if it is even partially obtainable from the start.

It's more practical than a lot of things we do. All it takes is money and willpower. We manage to stage elections every other year that are way more resource intensive than a gun registration.

Somehow I doubt that.

But thanks - It is an interesting point.

 

[iluvatar5150]

500,000,000 weapons - a whopping 0.028% of which are used in some type of crime. That leave 99.972% of that 500 million never used for criminal activity.

Let me explain - I have x number of weapons in my home right now - not one of which is registered - why? Because I don't have to. I'm not alone - there are tens of millions of gun owners just like me. How does the Government know what I do and do not have? There is no way for them to know.

What if someone changes their barrel?

In addition, it has been suggested and roundly defeated for reasons already cited. But your post bring something else up I would like to ask about.

According to the ATF

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/report/2024firearmscommercereportpdf/download

Between 9.9 million and 13 million weapons are manufactured each year.

Picture what would be needed to build a database that would house 500,000,000 current weapons and 9-13 million additional weapons a year that would actively track them from manufacturer to subsequent owners - giving access to 3,142 counties and innumerable police departments.

While it is not a bad idea - I doubt if it is even partially obtainable from the start.

Somehow I doubt that.

But thanks - It is an interesting point.

None of this is different in scale than what we already do for motor vehicles, of which there are currently about 280 million registered in the US. The total number of vehicles owned may be lower, but turnover is far higher, with total sales numbers being around 16-17 million per month.

 

[Always in His Presence]

None of this is different in scale than what we already do for motor vehicles, of which there are currently about 280 million registered in the US. The total number of vehicles owned may be lower, but turnover is far higher, with total sales numbers being around 16-17 million per month.

Right - however there are some differences

1. There are systems already established an in place.
2. 280 million is a tad more than half of 500 million
3. Driving is a privilege, not a right

Remember the manufacturing numbers are between 9 and 13 million - there is no way of knowing how many millions are traded or sold currently. There is also no way of knowing (at this point) who owns what weapon.

How do you get that information? That is what we have been talking about.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Right - however there are some differences

1. There are systems already established an in place.
   

1. 
   
   Right, which means that it’s entirely feasible to pull off.
   

   [*]280 million is a tad more than half of 500 million

   
   That’s the number currently owned, not the number ever sold or produced, the number of owners, or the number of transactions the system will have to handle.
   
   Cars don’t last as long as guns, so they rotate out of the pool faster and folks don’t generally collect as many vehicles as folks do guns.
   
   

   [*]Driving is a privilege, not a right

That has no bearing on whether such a system is feasible.

Remember the manufacturing numbers are between 9 and 13 million -

…which is less than the 16 million new vehicles sold every year.

there is no way of knowing how many millions are traded or sold currently.

Whatever that number is, it’s undoubtedly lower than the number of motor vehicle sales every year.

There is also no way of knowing (at this point) who owns what weapon.

How do you get that information? That is what we have been talking about.

That’s what you make registration compulsory. Anybody found in possession of an unregistered weapon after a certain date is guilty of a crime. If all of these gun owners are as law-abiding as you say, then they’ll comply with the registration. No, that isn’t a guarantee of anything, but it’ll get you in the right direction.

 

[RDKirk]

I fully support mandatory sentencing with no option for plea bargaining. Commit a crime involving a gun - serve a specific amount of time. no ifs, ands or buts. Personal accountability.

Does that include cases where someone thought he was practicing self defense, but the court thought differently?

Or can we limit that to the cases that someone woke up that morning and chose crime?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Does that include cases where someone thought he was practicing self defense, but the court thought differently?

Or can we limit that to the cases that someone woke up that morning and chose crime?

If they are found guilty of committing a crime by a court of law, then they suffer the consequences of that crime. That is the courts job. That is also why there is an appeal process.

 

[A2SG]

It is not a popular opinion. But i believe that just because you have a constitutional right to own guns, it doesnt mean you have the constitutional right to be an irresponsible gun owner without consequences. I am in the camp that believes that to own a gun is to assume a huge responsibility. With that comes heavy accountability. And if someone is unwilling or unable to assume that responsibility/accountability, then they probably shouldn't own a gun lest they are willing to face severe penalties.

I agree, and think that's a major reason why the Second Amendment specifies a well-regulated militia as a requirement for gun ownership. Unfortunately, over time, the SCOTUS has diluted "well-regulated militia" to mean anyone and everyone, and very little, if any, regulation.

-- A2SG, thanks, NRA....

 

[Valletta]

Mandatory registration. You have some kind of grace period, maybe a year or two depending on the logistics involved, in which people are free to come in and register their weapons, after which anybody found in possession of an unregistered weapon is guilty of a crime.

I'd even be open to an "oopsie" clause that allows people to register weapons after the window closes, with no questions asked, so long as they do it voluntarily.

All newly-created weapons should have their serial numbers and rifling patterns logged. It's probably unreasonable to log rifling patterns of existing weapons, but logging the new ones is better than nothing.

Then all transfers require checks and logging through an FFL dealer.


It's more practical than a lot of things we do. All it takes is money and willpower. We manage to stage elections every other year that are way more resource intensive than a gun registration.

It's an obvious step toward eventually seizing all of the guns. and without an amendment to the Constitution would be considered an attempted coup of our government by many many gun owners.

 

[Valletta]

It's an obvious step toward eventually seizing all of the guns. and without an amendment to the Constitution would be considered an attempted coup of our government by many many gun owners. Additionally today more people are aware of attempts to seize political power because of the border disaster, so it is dreaming to think it will happen within the foreseeable future .