question on Acts and Romans

[kiwiekat]

I was looking at this article on tektonics called Paul: Acts vs Epistles in Acts 17:16-34, and then there was a point that says in Acts the Gentiles did not know God, but worshipped Him; in Romans the Gentiles knew God, but didn't worship Him. I think he was referring to Acts 17:23 (For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. What therefore ye worship in ignorance, this I set forth unto you.) for the first part, but I don't know the verse for Romans, and it doesn't say in the article because it was very brief. Does anyone know the verse I'm talking about? Also, if there is such a verse in Romans, aren't the verses kind of contradictory? I get that they don't really "know" God in Romans, but the worship part doesn't make sense to me. Any help would be appreciated!

 

[NJA]

Rom.1:19: Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
:20: For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
:21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

They knew God in the sense that they had appreciation of him, lost it and tried to replace God with various other philosophies and desires, none of which fit.

God's plan is that we appreciate that He created the plants, animals and man to teach us about himself, so they have not changed, even as he does not change. We can "feel after" God (or at least want to know if there is an answer "I am sought of them that asked not for me" Isaiah 65v1) who is also feeling after man. Man finds God when he/she receives the Holy Spirit:-

Acts 2:4: And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(John 14:20: At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.)

Then you become a "new creature", a son of God.

 

[graysparrow]

Most modern religion scholars now seem to think that the begining of religion is the monotheist one. The basic feeling of a creature before God is common to all and common to all is the call of God for us so it makes sense from a christian perspective.

While I wont make the mistake of calling the african religion/s primitive (read John Mbiti who is a christian minister, btw) I want to strees it is closer to monotheism than a first glance could indicate.

Politheism was the result of humans trying to make God easier to understand and to have answers for everything. So they end up worshiping an imperfect version of God.

And that leads us to...

In the passage of acts, I think, this is mostly a way to show the imperfection of the greek religion. The audience is attracted when spoken in their own 'language'. "Now you have tried to know about things divine, but you have failed.... however some time ago God showed himself..."

In the romans passage, they had that basic feeling that there was a God out there, but time after time they started to add their little things by ignorance, to justify themselves or trying to complete their world view, ending up with 'gods' that had very few to do with holyness.

 

[kiwiekat]

...Rom.1:21: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

They knew God in the sense that they had appreciation of him, lost it and tried to replace God with various other philosophies and desires, none of which fit...

Thank you! That was the verse I was looking for. I just want to clarify, so can it be rightly said that the verse in Acts 17:23 was implying that they didn't know God, but worshipped Him, and then when they heard the Gospel, they didn't accept God, so they didn't worship Him as in in Romans 1:21 ?

Also, there was something else I had trouble understanding, but I never asked for help...I was wondering if you can help me. How come we don't follow the OT laws, like stoning people for example? I understand some things Jesus mentioned can be changed, such as declaring all foods clean, but why did he have to do it? I have trouble understanding because God's word is eternal, so I don't understand why some things changed and some things didn't in the Bible.

 

[greeker57married]

Also, there was something else I had trouble understanding, but I never asked for help...I was wondering if you can help me. How come we don't follow the OT laws, like stoning people for example? I understand some things Jesus mentioned can be changed, such as declaring all foods clean, but why did he have to do it? I have trouble understanding because God's word is eternal, so I don't understand why some things changed and some things didn't in the Bible.

Dear Kiwiekat

We are not under the law because man cannot keep the law.


Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith

We are not made perfect through the flesh and Romans 8 says the law was weak through the flesh. Because we cannot keep the law in our sinful state. How do we obey God today. Through the power of the Holy Spirit once we are saved. We are made perfect through faith not works.

 

[kiwiekat]

Dear Kiwiekat

We are not under the law because man cannot keep the law...

Thank you! The verses really helped. So was the point of having the Law in the first place to show us what is right and wrong, and that humans can't be righteous alone?

Umm I have another question. So when God says that His words never pass away like in Matthew 24:35 (Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.), what exactly does He mean? Because I understand we don't keep those OT laws, so what He commands us are kind of different from the commands in the OT. Hmm...well I know that Jesus said it after the Law was fulfilled, so my problem doesn't really fit with that verse, so then is there a verse in the OT that indicates His commandments lasts forever? And how do I know what Laws I should follow that are in the OT? I mean is it only if it is also mentioned in the NT?

Ohhh, and I have another problem with the same article I was talking about in my first post for this board, but this time in Acts 22:20:

The next day, since he wanted to find out exactly why Paul was being accused by the Jews, he released him and instructed the chief priests and all the Sanhedrin to convene. Then he... The problem was that it was weird that Paul was still kept in chains overnight even when the tribune knew it was wrong. Tektonics said that he wasn't kept in chains, but in protective custody, and that chains is not in Greek. But then I was looking at a Bible Study (John Gill's Exposition), and part of the verse reads "On the morrow he loosed him from his bands...", which indicated that he was released from his chains, so I'm confused. Sorry I'm jumping back and forth, but I hope you guys can help.