Question for those who have some grasp of physics...

[TreeOfLife]

The equation E=mc2 doesn't say that matter is energy, or energy is matter, exactly. Rather it says that matter can be converted into energy (and possibly visa versa) and it gives a measurable basis for how much energy will result from converting a given amount of matter to energy.

Amount of Matter x Speed of Light(squared) = Energy output

In this equation Einstine discovered the physical fact that energy released from the break down of matter is immensely greater than the matter itself. Which is why a few pounds of plutonium can level an entire city and then some in a nuclear reaction.

what this deals with is the fact that all matter is composed of atoms, which in tern are composed of smaller particles. It is one of the strange and largely unexplainable facts of physics that the nucleus of an atom (the center mass of an atom) should not stay together, but rather should fly apart. There is some force of energy which holds the nucleus together. Science of course has come up with all sorts of ideas on this.
anyway, Einstine's equation deals with the energy that is released when that "binding force" is broken. When that binding force which essentially holds matter together is broken, matter is converted directly into energy, and the amount of energy released is truly awsome.

We with our limited knowledge and capability have only discovered how to do this with certain types of materials, known as fisionable matterials.. materials that are naturally radioactive.

It is virtually impossible to go the other way and convert energy into matter. First, as the equation shows us, it would take huge huge huge amounts of energy to even make a little matter. Just as a pound of matter can level a city, it would take enough energy to level a city, in order to make a pound of matter.
scientists have sort of created matter out of energy using particle accelerators, but this only creates random loose particles and as far as we know now its pretty much impossible to gather them together into atoms or anything above the sub-atomic level.
When attempting to create matter out of energy, scientists also run into the problem that the physical laws of the universe try to prevent this from happening. When matter is created in this way it is created in a matter/anti-matter pair, which immediately annihilates itself and turns back into energy.
It is possible to stop this reaction and scientists have captured tiny amounts of anti-matter by using magnetic fields.. but this is extremely difficult to do.

I don't believe there is a connection between E=MC2 and biblical teachings on faith. At least in any physical/literal sense.
However, I do think creation is all allegorical for God's truth, if properly understood.

Simple algebraic rules applied to Einstein's relativity formula prove that matter and energy are the same basic stuff. While you are correct that there are massive amounts of energy involved and that fact alone is what led to things like the atomic bomb, it was the functionality of the formula that facsinated science.

That being said, Einstein may have come up with the formula, but the writer of Hebrews already new the principle nearly 2000 years ago:

Heb 11:2-3
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
NKJV

 

[TreeOfLife]

Well, if God is in us via the holy spirit, then within us is the power to create by vibrating varying frequencies? By speaking words? (which are in accord with His will, of course)

Well, let's be a bit more cautious. God is the absolute perfection of perfection. Anything He does, thinks or says is pure and true. So true that the universe was created in a state of perfection merely by Him speaking. Had Adam not sinned that perfection would still exist. The second Adam came to restore that.

In effect Adam created a disharmonic in the universe. My opinion is that Adam created the second law of thermodynamics. God's Word reverses it.

 

[Jillymac]

Did i ever tell you guys i dropped physics at high school?!

now if i only had you guys as my teachers i may have scraped a pass!!

 

[knownbeforetime]

I searched and searched and searched for the mass of a mustard seed but all I could find were teaching on the parable of the mustard seed...

So I estimated it to be half a gram. I put that into E=mc^2 and came out with 45 trillion Joules... Is that enough to take out a mountain?

 

[Simon_Templar]

Simple algebraic rules applied to Einstein's relativity formula prove that matter and energy are the same basic stuff. While you are correct that there are massive amounts of energy involved and that fact alone is what led to things like the atomic bomb, it was the functionality of the formula that facsinated science.

That being said, Einstein may have come up with the formula, but the writer of Hebrews already new the principle nearly 2000 years ago:

Heb 11:2-3
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.
NKJV

even if they are the same basic stuff, it doesn't mean that matter is energy, or that energy is matter. I get the impression we're just arguing a semantic point.. the point I'm trying to make is that there is a conversion process involved to get from one to the other, you can't simply transpose them.

kind of like saying ice and water are the same thing.. well yes, but liquid and solid aren't (not an exact analogy but hopefully gets the point across).

 

[TreeOfLife]

I searched and searched and searched for the mass of a mustard seed but all I could find were teaching on the parable of the mustard seed...

So I estimated it to be half a gram. I put that into E=mc^2 and came out with 45 trillion Joules... Is that enough to take out a mountain?

It's been way too long since I did those sort of calculations, but it sure is interesting.

 

[BenAdam]

Time is directly tied to the speed of light.

and gravity...

 

[KleinerApfel]

Ooooh! Good thread!
I don't have anything useful to say other than wow! And yay God!

Just wanted to lift it back onto the front page!

 

[TreeOfLife]

I find it interesting that "just by accident" the classifications for sub-subatomic particles has been grouped into three classes. Just one of those curious things.

 

[AFinChrist]

Just curious "Tree of Life" does your name stand for the tree in Eden...or are you part of Halexandria?

Using physics to understand the universe.
THe laws of the universe.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Just curious "Tree of Life" does your name stand for the tree in Eden...or are you part of Halexandria?

Using physics to understand the universe.
THe laws of the universe.

No, it comes from the Tree of Life in Eden and Revelation.

I have a study about the "trees" in the garden, but it's "eyes only"!

 

[TruthQuark]

Sorry - I'm a science freak! I can't resist.
God is more than light. God created the light.
And a particle can be a wave, and a wave can be a particle. That's a foundation in Quantums theory. It only states that we can observe one or the other. That it's impossible to see both qualities at the same time. It's like if you take a picture of a race car speeding past you, it depends on how you adjust your camera as to whether you will see the blur speeding past you (thus you see the speed but not it's substance) or if you slow the speed down and you see the outline of the car (the substance but not the speed.) You get to see the wave quality - it's motions and behaviors etc. Or you get to see it's substance - particle characteristics. The uncertainty principle only states we can observe one or the other at any given time, but both states exist in one substance. Light is both particle and wave.
I love this... Quantums and String theory from God's perspective.
I have some theories of my own - these I have not verified but I have wondered about that very first modern physics question myself. As I understand it - it is in the wave qualities. There's something about light, and sound. I think of God's word as coming in a sound wave, but it has to be more than sound since there's no air in space (thus no sound in space, and God certiainly exists everywhere.) But for you, something interesting to ponder about. This world that is, is all so symmetrical. It's like Einstein who said it's so finite. So calculable. There's so many variables that seems an impossible task but we can pretty much understand how this truth, may affect our lives etc. It's a symmetry, it happens in the same ways, it happens repeatedly, thus it can be calculated. That suggests that it is not God. It is God's handiwork, blueprint, fingerprints of Himself left behind for His creations to live through and by. It isn't God itervening everytime, maybe that's why a lot of people believe the entire world can be explained through physics. Sometimes - it can.
This scripture revealed widom to me that excites my spirit everytime I think on it.
"And you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." Don't ask me why this particular scripture is it for me. It's more that Jesus has given us salvation, has given us gifts of love and sacrifice, a divine mercy. A FREEDOM which physics will never be able to explain. I'm sorry. We all pay for our salvations in some way. There is no other name through which we can be saved. No free way to save our souls in science, only through Jesus and God. I have been set free. A gift paid for by Jesus blood. It's marvelous. Tell me what that is??? In physics it says, for every action there is an opposite an equal reaction. So why is it, when God steps in, physics dissapears. It isn't in the grandness of the Universe that I find God. It's in the brokeness of the physics in it. His will can override any law you can find. Trust me - it is true, and God can do things we can't ever explain.
Time - oh my - I love Quantums Mechanics. At the speed of light - time doesn't stop altogether. You are thinking of time in a black hole. The strong gravity means once you slip in, you experience all moments of time in a brief moment. Others would see you as slow moving since you don't move at all. They see this - from the outside - because you've already experienced every moment and therefore your existance was there for it. But they might see you for their entire life span. While you would see but a glimpse of them as you travel through every other moment so fastly. That's the effects of a strong gravity.
When you travel at the speed of light, time still exists. It's called time dilation and it's been surprisingly proven, repeatedly. You just sort of experience time DIFFERNTLY, when you are traveling so fast. It isn't all moments of time coming together at once. It's just substantially less.
"Who was and who is and who is to come." Don't ask me why that summed up my understanding of the nature of time.
The square - is actually not saying the speed of light twice. Nothing can go faster than light, specifically no information can go faster than the speed of light. The square is not intended to confuse, it is mathametics. It's a way of balancing and equalizing the equation. It ensures a positive answer, in case the other numbers are smaller.
Oh dear now you get into particle physics (I want to cry I'm so happy.) First of all - that equation does state energy and matter are one thing. The equation says - energy = matter. It's one substance. It says if you change the energy released in an object - you will also change it's matter. What happens on one side of the equation happens on the other. In particle physics - particles are created ALL THE TIME out of pure energy. Force carriers - are the most likely to occur. Energy is created between interacting particles, which create a particle out of just energy to send the information to the other particle. Things don't happen at a distance and they aren't created out of thin air. It's the energy..... and it happens all the time. No particle accelerator needed. Next year will be big with the new improvements on the accelerator in Europe!

I think I understand your original question though. It was more inquistive to how God's word is true. How it might apply to physics. You even asked if this was because of the wave quality. I think it's the wave of sound. For how is God's word heard? Waves are easy to manipulate, change, etc. It does breathe existance in a sense. He speaks... and the world hears.
On the other question - I think if you want to know how much science came about early? MMM... I learned first about the Hindu's. They have theories on the natures of time. Their spirtual worlds death and re-birth. I mean it's the 4th dimensional stuff that's usually so hard to explain. I'm a devout Christian and I find my God has been the one true God. I thoroughly recommend examining His word for physics. Especially the brokeness of physics.

 

[Simon_Templar]

Truthquark,

interesting, I'm no expert at physics, one of my many occasional dabblings.

However, my philosophy background introduced me to alot of the ancient and medieval conceptions of physics/cosmology... which are obviously very bizzare to the modern mind and laughable in some cases.
One idea that catches my eye though is the ancient thought of aether, an invisible substance that surrounds and permeates everything, the entire universe. (I also like the four elements ideas)

In modern physics you could equate the aether perhaps with universal background radiation, or something like that.. the four elements with the four states of matter maybe? gas, liquid, solid, and plasma (is that correct?)
Anyway, I find the idea of aether interesting because of the very things we have been talking about with sound waves, and light waves on so on. God spoke, presumably before there was air, as you pointed out.. so what did his voice resonate in (or cause to resonate)...

Perhaps when it says in Genesis "The Spirit hovered over the face of the deep" it is a picture of the Spirit of God filling every corner of space, forming the foundation behind everything that is, from which everything comes?

The Spirit hovered, or vibrated.. Spirit in the bible is the same word as wind, and is linked to air, and to breath... Thus it seems that the Spirit is what gives resonance, energy to the spoken word of God.

I also, when thinking of sound and creation am inexorably drawn to the idea that music is linked into the whole creation as well. In Job, God speaks of when the "morning stars sang together, and the sons of God shouted for joy" and gives the image that this happened at the creation, in the very beginning.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Welcome to CF TruthQuark.

I am aware of some experiments in England that have transmitted information faster than the speed of light. In effect, the answer got there before the message was sent. Are you familiar with them?

 

[knownbeforetime]

solid = earth
liquid = water
gas = air
plasma = fire

Isn't there something in quantum physics about all particles being linked to each other? Something about an experiment with two protons racing away from each other and a change in one cause an instantaneous (as in faster than c) change in the other. Kinda proves Colossian 1:17 (something like "He holds all things together)...

 

[TreeOfLife]

gas = air
liquid = water
solid = earth
plasma = fire

Isn't there something in quantum physics about all particles being linked to each other? Something about an experiment with two protons racing away from each other and a change in one cause an instantaneous (as in faster than c) change in the other. Kinda proves Colossian 1:17 (something like "He holds all things together)...

Yes Ma'am, and it gave rise to Superstring Theory.

Your memory is better than you give it credit for!!!!

 

[Atlantians]

How much do you know about Quantum Physics and Superstring theory?

Superstring theory more a hypothesis than a theory in practice.
It has zero evidence in support of it.

 

[Atlantians]

solid = earth
liquid = water
gas = air
plasma = fire

Fire is not plasma.
Plasma is ionized gas.
Fire is a heat-releasing chemical reaction that is caused by rapifd oxydation of combustable material.


As for spirit.

I don't relate any of our breaths or words to being the spirit, but rather see it as an analogy.
God's spirit is everywhere like wind and air seems to be everywhere in our existence. Of course that is not technically accurate, but you get the idea.
That seems to be what is behind using the same word for both.
And air is linked to life, spirit is life also. So again an analogy.
I am not WOF so I certainly do not attribute creative power to faith, the word meaning a total trust in God for salvation and in his plan for our life and obeying his commands through faith causing our person and personality to change through our faith in him, rather than some powerful force that gives us godlike powers.
That is certainly not the implication of the definition of the word.

Faith is trust in God for our salvation and our life. Not a force that can be controled through not doubting allowing us to change matter and reality.

The "power" of faith was experienced by me earlier this weak when I went as a counciler on a trip to a local camp site with a group of kids from my congregation.
A helper of mine (Myself and another were councilers with two helpers and we had a total of two kids to take care of, small camp but spiritually fruitful) and I were hiking up a stream with rocks and I got to a point where I was climbing up a very steap and rather fine slope next to a smakll waterfall. He had gotten to the top and I was struggling to find a solid place to set my foot and force myself over the top. One slip up and I would slide into water with a lot of sharp rocks.

My friend is a little older than me, but almost a foot shorter and far more frail.
I did not think that he could help me get up. But He told me "Trust me I will get you up." So I grabbed his hand and within a few seconds I was up over the edge and sitting down.

Likewise when we put our faith in God it allows us to surrender to him, giving ourselves to his strength and his plan allowing us to accomplish things that we couldn't on our own.
By his strength we overcome sins and live by his will in our life and in that we are prospered. Not prosperity in a sense of what we think is prosperity but prosperity in the sense of what he thinks is prosperity in our lives, and quite often that isn't financial abundance but abundance of all sorts of other kinds.
Sometimes we are called a support rod for other believers needs, other times we are the other believer with barely any money of his own but in the "trenches" preaching the word to all sorts of people.

 

[TreeOfLife]

Superstring theory more a hypothesis than a theory in practice.
It has zero evidence in support of it.

Supersting is the only theory that dovetails into Quantum Physics now.



(anger spillover from another thread. sorry)

 

[Simon_Templar]

she wasn't saying that plasma is fire, but rather that the ancient medieval concept of the four elements earth, air, water, and fire could be seen to correspond to our concept of the four states of matter, in which case the element of fire would correspond to the idea of plasma state of matter.

I also was not saying that spirit is air, or breath, but rather that the hebrew word spirit can also mean wind and breath, thus linking conceptually or analogously the ideas of spirit, to those of air.