Question for Preterists

[ron4shua]

Dear Brother Daniel Martinovich

You dear brother Said , one thing I can't let slide , without an effort to cast a tiny bit of illumination on the start of the " last [SIZE=+1]aion & the finish of the " SECOND " aion . Ask me or just READ the Scriptures to [SIZE=+1]educate[/SIZE] your[SIZE=+1]sel[SIZE=+1]f[/SIZE] of all th[SIZE=+1]ree " ai[SIZE=+1]on .

[SIZE=+1]The second age ended at the break of Passover day , the[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]s[/SIZE]ighting of the second star .[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]The crucifiction[SIZE=+1] & [SIZE=+1]entombment of our Master . [/SIZE] [/SIZE][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]T[/SIZE]he first day of the last age was just a little past 9 am as we [SIZE=+1]figure[/SIZE] time , The [SIZE=+1]Hebrew[/SIZE] first pra[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]yer[/SIZE] of the day . The day of Penteco[SIZE=+1]st in the Temple . " HOUSE " [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]oikos ; " [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1] it is used of the Tabernacle, as the House of God "[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1]" [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]And in the day of the Pentecost being fulfilled, they were all with one accord at the same place,"

[SIZE=+1]"[/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1] for these are not drunken, as ye take it up, for it is the third hour of the day."

[SIZE=+1]If you have ever wondered why [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]1 Corinthians 15:29 Seeing what shall they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? why also are they baptized for the dead?

This above isn't a plea to believe it , it's a give-me offered as proof of our Messiah's [SIZE=+1]anastasis[/SIZE] ! Read it for yourself , Brother !

This dear friend is the void in coverage of Act 2: 38 on , even to the " never ending end " . This is why ;" this one was instructed in the way of the Lord, and being fervent in the Spirit, was speaking and teaching exactly the things about the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John; 26 this one also began to speak boldly in the synagogue, and Aquilas and Priscilla having heard of him, took him to [them], and did more exactly expound to him the way of God," ( Acts 2:38 )


https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts 18:26



Now my hands are clean . Can you fallow my documentation without any difficulty ? Did you have to fill-in by guessing this or that . Grab anything out of thin air ? Assume words that aren't in any early MSS as Gospel or Good News TRUTH ?



Just three verses !

 

[ron4shua]

Dear Brother Daniel , would you say this is describing or giving an account of the FIRST [SIZE=+1]anastasis , the one our Master was first born form the dead "[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]according to God in the spirit[SIZE=+1] ?[SIZE=+1]"
[SIZE=+1]Would you say it's some kind of a typo [SIZE=+1]or Gos[SIZE=+1]p[/SIZE]el truth ?[/SIZE][/SIZE]
[/SIZE][/SIZE] [/SIZE]1 Peter 4:6 (NKJV) | In Context | Whole Chapter


6 For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.


1 Peter 4:6 (MOUNCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter
6 It was for eis this houtos very purpose · kai that the gospel was preached euangelizō to the dead nekros, so that hina though men they were judged krinō as kata men anthrōpos in the flesh sarx, they might live zaō · de as kata God theos in the Spirit pneuma.
https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/1 Peter 4:6

And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+2:17&version=YLT

In many parts, and many ways, God of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, 2 in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;
3 who being the brightness of the glory, and the impress of His subsistence, bearing up also the all things by the saying of his might -- through himself having made a cleansing of our sins, sat down at the right hand of the greatness in the highest,
Hebrews 1:2 (MOUNCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter


2 but in epi these houtos final eschatos · ho days hēmera he has spoken laleō to us hēmeis by en his Son hyios, whom hos he appointed tithēmi the heir klēronomos of all things pas, through dia whom hos he also kai created poieō the ho material universe aiōn


https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews 1:2



but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;
27 and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this -- judgment,
28 so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!


26 since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;




Hebrews 9:26 (MOUNCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter 26 for then epei he autos would have had dei to suffer paschō again and again pollakis since apo the foundation katabolē of the world kosmos. But de as it is nyni, he has appeared phaneroō once for all hapax at epi the climax synteleia of the ho ages aiōn to eis put away athetēsis · ho sin hamartia by dia · ho his autos sacrifice thusia.


https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews 9:26





3 your gold and silver have rotted, and the rust of them for a testimony shall be to you, and shall eat your flesh as fire. Ye made treasure in the last days!

James 5:3 (MOUNCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter

3 · ho Your hymeis gold chrysos and kai your ho silver argyros have rusted katioō and kai · ho their autos rust ios will be eimi a witness martyrion against you hymeis, and kai it will consume esthiō · ho your hymeis flesh sarx like hōs fire pyr. You have stored up treasure thēsaurizō for en the last eschatos days hēmera.

3 And this know thou, that in the last days there shall come perilous times,
7 always learning, and never to a knowledge of truth able to come,
, so also these do stand against the truth, men corrupted in mind, disapproved concerning the faith;

12 and all also who will to live piously in Christ Jesus shall be persecuted, and all a to salvation, through faith that [is] in Christ Jesus; 13 and evil men and impostors shall advance to the worse, leading astray and being led astray.

16 every Writing [is] God-breathed, and profitable for teaching, for conviction, for setting aright, for instruction that [is] in righteousness,

2 Timothy 3:1 (MOUNCE) | In Context | Whole Chapter


3 But de take note of ginōskō this houtos, that hoti in en the last eschatos days hēmera there will be enistēmi difficult chalepos times kairos;

Beautiful website Brother Daniel . I read your take on Daniel 2 , which is one of my gems , A pearl in fact . I'm going to read it again to attempt to understand how you could write so much & say so little . Maybe it's just my ignorance .

Live long my Brother & prosper .

 

[Winepress777]

How do Prets see the 'little season' of Rev 20:3, when Satan is loosed for a short time? Is it past or future?

Also, how does your view of the 'little season' differ from the Amil view of it?

It's no different a 'satan' down through the centuries until now, than the one that murdered Jesus. Satan being "loosed" upon Christians to kill their bodies, who doesn't know about that? 'Satan' killed Jesus on the cross. The "Adversary" to Jesus, who was it? It's always the same satan, down through the centuries. I don't know what either a preterist or amil is, but this is Truth in any case;

(Joh 8:31) Jesus, therefore, said unto the Jews who believed in him, `If ye may remain in my word, truly my disciples ye are, and ye shall know the truth,

(Joh 8:44) `Ye are of a father--the devil, and the desires of your father ye will to do; he was a man-slayer from the beginning, and in the truth he hath not stood, because there is no truth in him; when one may speak the falsehood, of his own he speaketh, because he is a liar--also his father.

(Act 7:51) Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Spirit: as your fathers did, so do ye.

(Act 7:52) Which of the prophets did not your fathers persecute? and they killed them that showed before of the coming of the Righteous One; of whom ye have now become betrayers and murderers;

(Act 7:53) ye who received the law as it was ordained by angels, and kept it not.

(Act 7:54) Now when they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

(Act 7:55) But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

(Act 7:56) and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God.

(Act 7:57) But they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and rushed upon him with one accord;

(Act 7:58) and they cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their garments at the feet of a young man named Saul.

(Act 7:59) And they stoned Stephen, calling upon the Lord, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.

(Act 7:60) And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

(Rev 2:9) I know thy tribulation, and thy poverty (but thou art rich), and the blasphemy of them that say they are Jews, and they art not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

(Rev 3:9) Behold, I give of the synagogue of Satan, of them that say they are Jews, and they are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

(Act 13:45) But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with jealousy, and contradicted the things which were spoken by Paul, and blasphemed.

(Mat 12:31) Therefore I say unto you, Every sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven.

(Mat 21:43) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and shall be given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

(Mat 23:29) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and garnish the tombs of the righteous,

(Mat 23:30) and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we should not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

(Mat 23:31) Wherefore ye witness to yourselves, that ye are sons of them that slew the prophets.

(Mat 23:32) Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

(Mat 23:33) Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?

(Mat 23:34) Therefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: some of them shall ye kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city:

(Mat 23:35) that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar.

(Mat 23:36) Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

...(Mat 23:33) Ye serpents, ye offspring of vipers, how shall ye escape the judgment of hell?

(Rev 12:1) And a great sign was seen in heaven: a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars;


(Rev 12:2) and she was with child; and she crieth out, travailing in birth, and in pain to be delivered.


(Rev 12:3) And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon...

*...(Isa 9:15)... and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail.*

(Rev 12:4) And his tail draweth the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon standeth before the woman that is about to be delivered, that when she is delivered he may devour her child.

(Tit 1:14) not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.

(Rev 16:13) And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits, as it were frogs:

(1Ti 1:4) neither to give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questionings, rather than a dispensation of God which is in faith; so do I now.


(1Ti 1:5) But the end of the charge is love out of a pure heart and a good conscience and faith unfeigned:

(1Ti 1:6) from which things some having swerved have turned aside unto vain talking;

(1Ti 1:7) desiring to be teachers of the law, though they understand neither what they say, nor whereof they confidently affirm.

(Tit 1:10) For there are many unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision,

(Tit 1:11) whose mouths must be stopped; men who overthrow whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

(Php 3:2) Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision:

(Joh 8:44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
(Joh 8:39) They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
(Joh 8:40) But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham.
(Joh 8:41) Ye do the works of your father. They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.

(Joh 8:42) Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
(Joh 8:43) Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.
(Joh 8:44) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
(Joh 8:45) But because I say the truth, ye believe me not.
(Joh 8:46) Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me?
(Joh 8:47) He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Leaves no room for doubt as to exact identity of the accuser of the brethren does it. Continually, down through the centuries. Now look at them... actually claiming some form of 'specialness'. The lies, the propaganda spewing forth from the mouth of this dragon, seeking to drag down some of the Chosen saints stars of Heaven, thinking she's a Queen, not knowing she widowed herself killing her Husband of the Covenant. Her God. Lying. Blaspheming.... spiritual wickedness in high places everywhere... who controls the press, the politics, the banking, the religious illiterates, and the beastly masses, but those who also claim "land" as from God in the middle east...

You asked about "satan"... an ugly topic, but there it is.

Peace

 

[A New World]

How do Prets see the 'little season' of Rev 20:3, when Satan is loosed for a short time? Is it past or future?

Also, how does your view of the 'little season' differ from the Amil view of it?

Paul taught the Romans that the crushing of Satan under their feet would take place soon after he wrote.

Romans 16:20 "And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen."

By necessity, the loosing of Satan must have occurred prior to the crushing!

John gave explicit time statements at both the beginning and at the end of Revelation (Rev. 1:1-3; 22:6-12). Because of these "bookend" time statements, his audiences knew all of the events of his book "must shortly take place...for the time is near."

I think most who hold the Amil view are futurists.

 

[Interplanner]

If Amill was read the way atheist was read, it would mean people who do not believe in a millenium. Actually, most that I know think the millenium is current, so they believe in it that way. At the end of it, all the nations are decieved, all turn against God's people everywhere, and all are destroyed as part of the final day of wrath.

It is this view which pushes most of the other things mentioned in the Rev foward to the disaster of Judea in the 1st century, since, by most accounts, the little rebellion is after all that.

 

[Notrash]

How do Prets see the 'little season' of Rev 20:3, when Satan is loosed for a short time? Is Also, how does your view of the 'little season' differ from the Amil view of it?

Most Prets have attempted to fit the little season into 67-70 or 70-73 AD to keep with the spirit and intent of the content of the letter. (Defensable attempt.)
I assumed this application for a time also, but couldn't fit the scenario represented in Gog/Magog into @70 timeframe; namely the living in unwalled villages and having been brought back from the sword (Ez 38:7) and after the new covt of ch 36.

So for this and other reasons I for one pret believe the little season was from 70-135 AD.
See this post.
http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?181545-Isaiah-7-8-forecast-132-135-AD



http://forums.carm.org/vbb/showthread.php?181545-Isaiah-7-8-forecast-132-135-AD

 

[Interplanner]

Notrash, perhaps you have some names but I think DeMar etc say that most of the events of the Rev are the 1st century revolt and war, and the little rebellion at the end of the long reign of Christ is to come. The destruction of the harlot on the beast by the beast, for ex., is Jerusalem trying to stay alive on Roman power.

 

[Notrash]

Notrash, perhaps you have some names but I think DeMar etc say that most of the events of the Rev are the 1st century revolt and war, and the little rebellion at the end of the long reign of Christ is to come. The destruction of the harlot on the beast by the beast, for ex., is Jerusalem trying to stay alive on Roman power.

No; I don't have any names of other peoples. This is an original understanding to my knowledge, unless Pete townsend of the who had this understanding in mind when singing of "the shotgun sings the song" (meaning a double barrel or double honour (Is 61:7) and referring to the song of Moses)
when singing the song "won't get fooled again.

Damar quotes others and is of no authority himself as he himself will limely admit. Many people in the past have gotten partial answers and understanding upon which we can glean.

I wouldn't doubt that other seekers have cobtemplated Gog/magog as bar kocjbahs revolt in the past, but did not substantiate their opinion.

CHHEERS

 

[Notrash]

Re:Ronshua's post on Heb 9:26-28.

Is the salvation mentiined in vs 26 the same saving in rom 11:26?

If so; in what manner of 'salvation' was Is 59 speaking of from which Rom 11:26 was quoted?

 

[ron4shua]

Re:Ronshua's post on Heb 9:26-28.

Is the salvation mentiined in vs 26 the same saving in rom 11:26?

If so; in what manner of 'salvation' was Is 59 speaking of from which Rom 11:26 was quoted?

Greetings dear brother , I'm going to assume " Ronshua " is posted in the same spirit as your comment .
Or is this , whatever it is not my mail ?
Where in the temple of buying & selling did you conjure up " Is 59 " ?
Where in the house of bad apples did I use " rom 11:26 ?
I'm not a preterist but will confess , partial Scripture fulfilled believer .

May Elohim YAH bless you & yours .

 

[Berean777]

Preterists believe that all that was fulfilled by about 70AD. I am not a Preterist, but a Partial-Preterist; so I believe that part of the scripture (Rev 20:7ff) was not fulfilled in the first century.

In a nutshell, I believe that Satan WAS released from prison in the past century. That is the only way I can explain the falling-away from traditional Christianity that has occurred in recent times, as well as the filth that permeates western societies, along with the "I give up, and I don't care, cause I am gonna be raptured" attitude of many Christians.

One would think, from all this filth, as well as the bondage of countless rules and regulations by a myriad of busybodies that plague the peoples of every nation, that we were all back in first century Jerusalem prior to its destruction. History does seem to have a way or repeating itself.

I saw a vision of two men in white robes escorting a very tall man wearing black robes. The two men on either side of the tall man came up to his waist as they escorted him. In the vision fear fell upon me and out of fear I spoke to the tall man in the black robes; take care of my brothers.

No sooner I spoke these words the two men in white robes heard me and looked at me as they instantly flew towards me and pushed me right out of the vision. I woke up in a fright and I asked myself how did they see and hear me, they weren't supposed to its only a dream.

I later came to the realisation that the tall man in black was from a previous vision that I had seen when I was thrown deep in a bottomless pit in the earth and came to rest at a side entrance to a caverness opening that had a shrine and an altar holding a huge book.mthe picture on all sides of that book was the image of this tall man.

The interpretation of the vision is that this tall man is the beast of the bottomless pit aka Lucifer (Isaiah 14) and he was paraded before me as a prisoner and that is why I was not supposed to talk to this prisoner who was being released into the world.

I concur with what you have said by the fruits that the world is now manifesting that is a huge threat to the gospel of Jesus Christ and those who hold his testimony. It seems the church is being attacked from all sides and every nation.

 

[random person]

I think I understand now.

People in this age will not be

• Lovers of their own selves,
  
• covetous,
  
• boasters,
  
• proud,
  
• blasphemers,
  
• disobedient to parents,
  
• unthankful,
  
• unholy,
  
• Without natural affection,
  
• trucebreakers,
  
• false accusers,
  
• incontinent,
  
• fierce,
  
• despisers of those that are good,
  
• Traitors,
  
• heady,
  
• highminded,
  
• lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
  
• Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof

Paul just meant that those other people in the two ages to come (?) will be like that.

Our generation couldn't possibly be described like this because we are good and just keep getting better, don't we?

Just read the messages to the 7 churches in Revelation. It was happening! It was happening!

 

[random person]

How do Prets see the 'little season' of Rev 20:3, when Satan is loosed for a short time? Is it past or future?

Also, how does your view of the 'little season' differ from the Amil view of it?

It is past, and is speaking of when Satan deceived the nations into persecuting the infant Church, that both the Roman Empire via Nero Caesar and the Jewish tribes spread throughout the Empire particularly in Asia Minor.

 

[Notrash]

Greetings dear brother , I'm going to assume " Ronshua " is posted in the same spirit as your comment .
Or is this , whatever it is not my mail ?
Where in the temple of buying & selling did you conjure up " Is 59 " ?
Where in the house of bad apples did I use " rom 11:26 ?
I'm not a preterist but will confess , partial Scripture fulfilled believer .

May Elohim YAH bless you & yours .

Hi ron.
I personally am making a connection between the salvation from persecution of the jews/romans by God/Jesus coming through the roman armies that was depicted in deut 32:42 & Is 59 as referred to by Paul in rom 11:26/27 AND his appearing a second time for salvation (to those who looked for him) that is mentiined in Heb 9:26.
Thus I'm saying that the 'salvation by deliverence through the coming of God in judgement & favor (dan 7) through the roman armies is what "salvation" is being referred to in both rom 11:26,27 & heb 9:28.

Rom 11:26/27 referrs to Is 59:19ff. It is a chapter with first century application.

Is 66:5 also associates to Heb 9:28.


Thanks

xyz

 

[ron4shua]

Greetings dear brother , please forgive my ignorance
in not perceiving your motive . I've followed chum lines
so thick , some would have supported 18-weelers on
no speed limit turnpikes .
When I post Hebrews 9:26-28 , my intention is to point to
our Masters words ;
25יהושע said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he dies, he shall live.

26“And everyone that is living and believing in Me shall never die at all. Do you believe this?”

51“Truly, truly, I say to you, if anyone guards My Word he shall never see death at all.”

52The Yehuḏim said to Him, “Now we know that You have a demon! Aḇraham died, and the prophets. And You say, ‘If anyone guards My Word he shall never taste death at all.’

56“Your father Aḇraham was glad that he should see My day, and he saw it and did rejoice.”

“And concerning the dead, that they rise – have you not read in the book of Mosheh, at the bush, how Elohim spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the Elohim of Aḇraham, and the Elohim of Yitsḥaq, and the Elohim of Yaʽaqoḇ’?
“He is not the Elohim of the dead, but Elohim of the living. You, then, go greatly astray.”

The greatly astray , doesn't stop there . " The books are

opened and READ " .... " to see if your name WAS in the

Book of LIFE ". The Great white throne judgment was completed before anything was spoken into existence .

FOREKNOWLEDGE not predestination .

I'm still scratching my head , trying to savvy what any of

this has to do with the OP ? Weaving into our Masters

propitiating sacrificial death on the tree , that made Acts 2:38 possible " the gift of the set-apart Spirit ". With some kind of joining to the door closing of the fleshly first Covent . I'm certainly no sage . The 70 AD closing with 40 years of

change overlap is plenty liberal in my thinking but that's not my call . Elohim's retribution of complete desolation for not believing in The Chosen ONE from Elohim YAH .

26“Therefore do not fear them. For whatever is covered shall be revealed, and whatever is hidden shall be made known.

27“What I say to you in the dark, speak in the light. And what you hear in the ear, proclaim on the house-tops.

28“And do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the being. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both being and body in Gehenna."

Complete incineration , destroy completely .“Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver, and the gold were crushed together, and became like chaff from the summer threshing-floors. And the wind took them away so that no trace of them was found. And the stone that smote the image became a great mountain and filled all the earth."
Is harsh , awesomely harsh but again not my call .
Sorry , my brother .

Hallelu-YAH

 

[Notrash]

Ron;
I think the original response to Daniel M was to associate the "last days" with first century events and the last days of the law.

I agree and added that even Heb 9:28 referred to the same "salvation" by deliverence & judgement through the Romans that Paul had explained in rom 11:26,27 with those verses being sourced from Isaiah 59.

But I'll agree that Abraham was living in the resurrection when God was speaking to moses.

And I'll agree that this has little to do with the OP.

 

[Notrash]

Re:the OP.

Amills believe the church age is the 1000s years. Prets view the 1000 yrs as either the period from 30-70 AD or some other period(s) ending @ 70 AD.

I personally believe there were several measurements of 1000 (its plural in the greek) intended and which all culminated by 70 AD but the implications of the laws established and empowered continue as part of the "body" of Christ/Gods doctrines within those who recieve and believe on him and his truths.





cyz.

 

[ron4shua]

You're not obligated to believe a word of my ramblings . It's my stauros to carry .

Greetings dear brother Notrash , had our brother not posted , " the end time to come " , this one would have been content to glean any new " Good News " held by those with the power to " buy & sell " . Your repetitive attempt at connecting " salvation " ; you said ; " I agree and added that even Heb 9:28 referred to the same "salvation" by deliverence & judgement through the Romans that Paul had explained in rom 11:26,27 with those verses being sourced from Isaiah 59."
I can't let this slide !
With over 2,000 posts , you are reading a very crummy version of Scripture , you don't read a great deal or something else , I don't care to or would not judge .
I say ; In a verse ; http://biblehub.com/isr/acts/2.htm 41Then those, indeed, who gladly received his word, were immersed. And on that day about three thousand beings were added to them.
4:4But many of those who had heard the word believed, and the number of the men became about five thousand.
I believe these verses as TWO WITNESSES .

http://biblehub.com/isr/romans/11.htm
26And so all Yisra’ĕl shall be saved, as it has been written, “The Deliverer shall come out of Tsiyon, and He shall turn away wickedness from Ya‛aqoḇ,

27and this is My covenant with them, when I take away their sins.”a

In my novice attempt to savvy Scripture , I failed to connect any of your showcased verse as ; " ... , making all haste to write to you concerning our common deliverance, I felt the necessity to write to you urging you to earnestly contend for the belief which was once for all delivered to the set-apart ones. "

Please my brother , read my lips . I read , The Revelation of YAHshua ( Elohim " YAH's , salvation" ) as what our brother , Webster defines , " revelation " it is in English ! The first three chapters are fulfilled prophecy , they receiving Elohim's judgments almost 2,000 years ago . 22:18-19 are warnings .
The remainder is a 19 chapter idiom , an ABSTRACT picture of our Almighty Infinite Creator Elohim , YAH !

The all in ALL .

May our Master bless you & all entrusted to your care .

Hallelu-YAH .

 

[random person]

Re:the OP.

Amills believe the church age is the 1000s years. Prets view the 1000 yrs as either the period from 30-70 AD or some other period(s) ending @ 70 AD.

I personally believe there were several measurements of 1000 (its plural in the greek) intended and which all culminated by 70 AD but the implications of the laws established and empowered continue as part of the "body" of Christ/Gods doctrines within those who recieve and believe on him and his truths.





cyz.

Prets believe there are only two ages mentioned in the Bible, the Jewish Age and the Messianic Age.

The Messianic Age is the very same Church Age. It is an age without end (Eph. 3:21 & Heb. 13:20).

The Jewish Age aka the Old Covenant Age aka the Mosaic Age officially and permanently ended in A.D. 70.

We believe God is not going to re-raise the Old Covenant Age, because the Old Covenant Age was a mere shadow or precursor pointing forward to the future arrival of the Messianic Age aka the Church Age.

God began his plan of salvation for the world with the Jewish Age which culminated in Jesus.

There are no further plans for national Israel, because the purpose of the Jewish Age has already been fulfilled in Jesus. God NOW commands all men (including Jews) to repent and accept Christ.

Jesus is the end game of the Jewish Age. Jesus is the whole reason for these covenants with the Abraham, Moses, etc.

Jesus is the end game. And this plan is not exclusive for the Jews but the whole earth.

CHECKMATE!

 

[ron4shua]

Greetings brother , where o where do the " perts " place the age ( aion ) from Creation to when the ark touched
dry land ? ; http://biblehub.com/isr/genesis/8.htm
20And Noaḥ built an altar to יהוה, and took of every clean beast and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

21And יהוה smelled a soothing fragrance, and יהוה said in His heart, “Never again shall I curse the ground because of man, although the inclination of man’s heart is evil from his youth, and never again smite all living creatures, as I have done,

22as long as the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and winter and summer, and day and night shall not cease.”

9:8And Elohim spoke to Noaḥ and to his sons with him, saying,

9“And I, see, I establish My covenant with you and with your seed after you,

10and with every living creature that is with you: of the birds, of the cattle, and of every beast of the earth with you, of all that go out of the ark, every beast of the earth.

11“And I shall establish My covenant with you, and never again is all flesh cut off by the waters of the flood, and never again is there a flood to destroy the earth.”

12And Elohim said, “This is the sign of the covenant which I make between Me and you, and every living creature that is with you, for all generations to come:

13“I shall set My rainbow in the cloud, and it shall be for the sign of the covenant between Me and the earth.

Ask those " perts " , is this the first covenant ( Adam ) or the second ( Noah ) or third ( Abram ) or the
Messianic covenant ( aion ) , equaling " the last AGE " ?

http://biblehub.com/isr/isaiah/46.htm
9“Remember the former events of old, for I am Ěl, and there is no one else – Elohim, and there is no one like Me,

10declaring the end from the beginning, and from of old that which has not yet been done, saying, ‘My counsel does stand, and all My delight I do,’

11calling a bird of prey from the east, the man who executes My counsel, from a distant land. Indeed I have spoken it, I also bring it to pass. I have planned it, I also do it.

12“Listen to Me, you stubborn-hearted, who are far from righteousness:

13“I shall bring My righteousness near, it is not far off, and My deliverance, it is not delayed. And I shall give deliverance in Tsiyon, My esteem to Yisra’ĕl.

http://biblehub.com/isr/matthew/3.htm
15But יהושע answering, said to him, “Permit it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fill all righteousness.” Then he permitted Him.

16And having been immersed, יהושע went up immediately from the water, and see, the heavens were opened, and He saw the Spirit of Elohim descending like a dove and coming upon Him,

17and see, a voice out of the heavens, saying, “This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I did delight.”
The birth of the first born from the dead .
My apologies to you random person , I thought Notrash was addressing me , so sorry . ron .

Hallelu-YAH .