Question for Preterists

[Gideon]

How do Prets see the 'little season' of Rev 20:3, when Satan is loosed for a short time? Is it past or future?

Also, how does your view of the 'little season' differ from the Amil view of it?

 

[Rev20]

How do Prets see the 'little season' of Rev 20:3, when Satan is loosed for a short time? Is it past or future?

Also, how does your view of the 'little season' differ from the Amil view of it?

Preterists believe that all that was fulfilled by about 70AD. I am not a Preterist, but a Partial-Preterist; so I believe that part of the scripture (Rev 20:7ff) was not fulfilled in the first century.

In a nutshell, I believe that Satan WAS released from prison in the past century. That is the only way I can explain the falling-away from traditional Christianity that has occurred in recent times, as well as the filth that permeates western societies, along with the "I give up, and I don't care, cause I am gonna be raptured" attitude of many Christians.

One would think, from all this filth, as well as the bondage of countless rules and regulations by a myriad of busybodies that plague the peoples of every nation, that we were all back in first century Jerusalem prior to its destruction. History does seem to have a way or repeating itself.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Preterists believe that all that was fulfilled by about 70AD. I am not a Preterist, but a Partial-Preterist; so I believe that part of the scripture (Rev 20:7ff) was not fulfilled in the first century.

In a nutshell, I believe that Satan WAS released from prison in the past century. That is the only way I can explain the falling-away from traditional Christianity that has occurred in recent times, as well as the filth that permeates western societies, along with the "I give up, and I don't care, cause I am gonna be raptured" attitude of many Christians.

One would think, from all this filth, as well as the bondage of countless rules and regulations by a myriad of busybodies that plague the peoples of every nation, that we were all back in first century Jerusalem prior to its destruction. History does seem to have a way or repeating itself.

Yet, just among Pentecostals alone, 60,000-100,000 non believers a day are becoming believers. That doesn't even count evangelicals and the rest. Don't be so pessimistically faithless. The world is just a little bit filled with the glory of God. Meaning, looking at the long term and the history of the planet we are just in the beginning stages of the 100+ chapters of the good news earthly prophecies and promises coming to pass. The long term trend of the world getting better because so many accepting Christ is not a straight line upwards. Just like a believers life that is growing up in Christ. There are times of failure and darkness but....God. It is his zeal that will preform this.

 

[Danoh]

Preterists believe that all that was fulfilled by about 70AD. I am not a Preterist, but a Partial-Preterist; so I believe that part of the scripture (Rev 20:7ff) was not fulfilled in the first century.

In a nutshell, I believe that Satan WAS released from prison in the past century. That is the only way I can explain the falling-away from traditional Christianity that has occurred in recent times, as well as the filth that permeates western societies, along with the "I give up, and I don't care, cause I am gonna be raptured" attitude of many Christians.

One would think, from all this filth, as well as the bondage of countless rules and regulations by a myriad of busybodies that plague the peoples of every nation, that we were all back in first century Jerusalem prior to its destruction. History does seem to have a way or repeating itself.

LOL, I'm sorry for this, but its just too good to pass up - you left yourself wide open for it...

"In a nutshell" - that's about it, lol

You, you - you Historicist you, lol

Reread what you wrote - you are walking by sight! Par for the course in Historicism - man, drop that, get back to Faithisism!!!

You might as well be a Pentecostal - their whole deal is the senses!

I was raised one, I should know

 

[Danoh]

Yet, just among Pentecostals alone, 60,000-100,000 non believers a day are becoming believers. That doesn't even count evangelicals and the rest. Don't be so pessimistically faithless. The world is just a little bit filled with the glory of God. Meaning, looking at the long term and the history of the planet we are just in the beginning stages of the 100+ chapters of the good news earthly prophecies and promises coming to pass. The long term trend of the world getting better because so many accepting Christ is not a straight line upwards. Just like a believers life that is growing up in Christ. There are times of failure and darkness but....God. It is his zeal that will preform this.

I guess it depends on what you believe faith is...

To my understanding too many are more Charismatic than they are even aware of, case in point:

Once, visiting a Baptist "Bible Study," hey opened with testimonies.

One person relates how that, recently, while he was in line at the grocery store, waiting to pay for his groceries when the man in front of him related to the cashier that he was short ten dollars.

He went on to relate how that while he was debating whether to help him when the man the relate to the cashier she could put some things back because he wanted to have some extra money for cigarettes.

He then related that he knew right then why he had delayed helping the man; that the Spirit had held him back because He knew the man was going to buy cigarettes.

His testimony was well received, by all present.

I'm siting there thinking how that that is not how grace works. How that charity believeth all things [gives the benefit of doubt]. How that grace is neither works, nor no works based, just as God sent His Son knowing what would befall Him at our hands - actions far and away worse than "a pack of cigarettes.'

And that was a Baptist - sworn against "signs."

Pentecostals - I was raised one - the whole deal is the senses. I lost track of how many would relate they "felt" saved one day, "felt" un-saved another - or that "saw" someone "saved" - or that "saw" someone else prove otherwise...

So, yeah, it depends on what you believe "saved" is.

It is certainly not "Historicist" - which is what anyone is, in my book, who looks to some event outside of THE Book, regardless of what view they assert they hold to.

In short, we ever need to examine what it is we believe...

 

[Rev20]

Yet, just among Pentecostals alone, 60,000-100,000 non believers a day are becoming believers. That doesn't even count evangelicals and the rest. Don't be so pessimistically faithless.

LOL! You are a funny one, Daniel.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I guess it depends on what you believe faith is...

To my understanding too many are more Charismatic than they are even aware of, case in point:

Once, visiting a Baptist "Bible Study," hey opened with testimonies.

One person relates how that, recently, while he was in line at the grocery store, waiting to pay for his groceries when the man in front of him related to the cashier that he was short ten dollars.

He went on to relate how that while he was debating whether to help him when the man the relate to the cashier she could put some things back because he wanted to have some extra money for cigarettes.

He then related that he knew right then why he had delayed helping the man; that the Spirit had held him back because He knew the man was going to buy cigarettes.

His testimony was well received, by all present.

I'm siting there thinking how that that is not how grace works. How that charity believeth all things [gives the benefit of doubt]. How that grace is neither works, nor no works based, just as God sent His Son knowing what would befall Him at our hands - actions far and away worse than "a pack of cigarettes.'

And that was a Baptist - sworn against "signs."

Pentecostals - I was raised one - the whole deal is the senses. I lost track of how many would relate they "felt" saved one day, "felt" un-saved another - or that "saw" someone "saved" - or that "saw" someone else prove otherwise...

So, yeah, it depends on what you believe "saved" is.

It is certainly not "Historicist" - which is what anyone is, in my book, who looks to some event outside of THE Book, regardless of what view they assert they hold to.

In short, we ever need to examine what it is we believe...

And yet, even with stupid little stories that demonstrate one persons supposed superiority over 600,000 other believers. Among Pentecostals alone, 60,000-100,000 non believers a day are becoming believers.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

LOL! You are a funny one, Daniel.

Well lets see here, if the math lies. In the last hundred years Pentecostals, like the hard core futurist embracing Assemblies of God went from a million to six hundred million, (Google it). If you divide that by a century you get approx.. 14,000 a day. Yet it is the last thirty years that saw all this growth so that number reflects nothing really.

Take all the numbers from all the studies that say Pentecostals conversions are happening at a rate of 3% - 8% per year. We'll grab a conservative number of 4%. That makes 60,000 conversions per day! Well within the average the studies say Christianity is growing by the year.

Lets look at this another way. 2.2 billion claim Christianity world wide. Lets say from that number there are six hundred million real Christians of all denominations. (Not talking Pentecostals here.) Lets say those individuals truly win two people each to Christ in a decade and those truly win two people to Christ in a decade. Not unreasonable. I sure have done my share. How long would it take for the world to be majority true Christian and a majority of those left non Christians who claim Christianity?

30 years to be exact. Now that is not exactly what is happening. But....that is similar to what is happening. Don't be so cynically faithless. When the Bible repeats over and over that the whole world will be full of the knowledge of the Lord and full of the glory of the Lord. It actually means it.

All the clowns on this board claim to have, "the knowledge of the Lord." If they do then it ain't no problem that the whole world has it in 30 years. That was sarcasm in case you didn't know it.

 

[101]

Jesus had a lot of fans in his time who were zealous to eat fish and chips whenever he was serving dinner.

But none of them were disciples. And when they discovered that Jesus wasn't about fish and chips, but about eating his flesh and drinking his blood, they soon found a new fad of the moment and departed.

Numbers really don't mean anything. In fact, if you believe Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, the situation is as follows when it comes to fans:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. -- Matthew 7:13-14​

If you don't distrust where the 'many' go by now, you should.

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Jesus had a lot of fans in his time who were zealous to eat fish and chips whenever he was serving dinner.

But none of them were disciples. And when they discovered that Jesus wasn't about fish and chips, but about eating his flesh and drinking his blood, they soon found a new fad of the moment and departed.

Numbers really don't mean anything. In fact, if you believe Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, the situation is as follows when it comes to fans:

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. -- Matthew 7:13-14​

If you don't distrust where the 'many' go by now, you should.

You did notice that in my post I "generously" brought the number of real believers out of 2.2 billion who claim Christianity down to six hundred million?
Why do you think I did that?
Secondly. As to the well over 100,000 a day who have been accepting Christ for the first time in the last decade; I didn't say they are all disciples did I? You would be mistaken though if you think that the majority of them are not positively affected by their personal introduction to the living savior of mankind. I didn't say heaven bound. I said positively affected, which is the subject matter of my comments. The world becoming better. Not just because hundreds of millions are becoming disciples. But; also because hundreds of millions are meeting Jesus, even though they may not follow him to the degree he requires.

 

[101]

You did notice that in my post I "generously" brought the number of real believers out of 2.2 billion who claim Christianity down to six hundred billion?
Why do you think I did that?
Secondly. As to the well over 100,000 a day who have been accepting Christ for the first time in the last decade; I didn't say they are all disciples did I? You would be mistaken though if you think that the majority of them are not positively affected by their personal introduction to the living savior of mankind. I didn't say heaven bound. I said positively affected, which is the subject matter of my comments. The world becoming better. Not just because hundreds of millions are becoming disciples. But; also because hundreds of millions are meeting Jesus, even though they may not follow him to the degree he requires.

I like optimism, but I won't neglect having a cup of cautious perspicuity either in this present darkness.

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.--2 Timothy 3​

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I like optimism, but I won't neglect having a cup of cautious perspicuity either in this present darkness.

1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.--2 Timothy 3​

Well.... it ain't the last days so you can go ahead and keep prophesying that falsehood along with the rest of them. As for me an my house, we will serve the Lord with a little intelligence and continue seeing the prophecies for this age being fulfilled. (This age not the last two.)

 

[ron4shua]

Greetings Saints , " Question for Preterists " . Daniel Martinovich
you posted what's below .
"Well.... it ain't the last days so you can go ahead and keep prophesying that falsehood along with the rest of them. As for me an my house, we will serve the Lord with a little intelligence and continue seeing the prophecies for this age being fulfilled. (This age not the last two.)"

How do you read Hebrews 9:26 since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world,but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested; 27 and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this -- judgment,
28 so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!
Young's Literal Translation

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews 9:26

Acts 2:14 and Peter having stood up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and declared to them, `Men, Jews! and all those dwelling in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and harken to my sayings,
17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts 2:17

Can you match & surpass these Scripture truths to
" The last days " ? Can anyone discredit & invalidate "SAITH GOD " ?

I'm not a preterist as I perceive you have judged preterism . If you wish to label my views or doctrine holdings of Eschatology . Please make it , Partial Fulfilled , please .

 

[101]

I think I understand now.

People in this age will not be

• Lovers of their own selves,
  
• covetous,
  
• boasters,
  
• proud,
  
• blasphemers,
  
• disobedient to parents,
  
• unthankful,
  
• unholy,
  
• Without natural affection,
  
• trucebreakers,
  
• false accusers,
  
• incontinent,
  
• fierce,
  
• despisers of those that are good,
  
• Traitors,
  
• heady,
  
• highminded,
  
• lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
  
• Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof

Paul just meant that those other people in the two ages to come (?) will be like that.

Our generation couldn't possibly be described like this because we are good and just keep getting better, don't we?

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Greetings Saints , " Question for Preterists " . Daniel Martinovich
you posted what's below .
"Well.... it ain't the last days so you can go ahead and keep prophesying that falsehood along with the rest of them. As for me an my house, we will serve the Lord with a little intelligence and continue seeing the prophecies for this age being fulfilled. (This age not the last two.)"

How do you read Hebrews 9:26 since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world,but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested; 27 and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this -- judgment,
28 so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!
Young's Literal Translation

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews 9:26

Acts 2:14 and Peter having stood up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and declared to them, `Men, Jews! and all those dwelling in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and harken to my sayings,
17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts 2:17

Can you match & surpass these Scripture truths to
" The last days " ? Can anyone discredit & invalidate "SAITH GOD " ?

I'm not a preterist as I perceive you have judged preterism . If you wish to label my views or doctrine holdings of Eschatology . Please make it , Partial Fulfilled , please .

Yeah, I can match them to the last days of the old covenant age which ended in great judgment 70 AD. In fact that is what 95% of the New Testament end time prophecies are referring to UNITL you get to the book of Revelation. Only one chapter of its end time prophecies are referring to the end of the Old covenant age. The rest of its end time prophecies, about 14 chapters prophesied about the Age of the Gentiles and its end in 1453 AD when the Roman Empire fell. This age has it's own set of prophesies, 100+ chapters of them. There are no specific prophesies in the Bible about the end of this age. Not saying it doesn't have an end. Not saying Christ has not been coming to judge nations since 1453 AD. Just saying there are no specific prophecies about its end or any more ages that may lay ahead of us.
If you want to know what could possibly qualify for prophecies about this age that are not end time prophecies you could look at this thread I started. It has three chapters of them.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7859464/

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

I think I understand now.

People in this age will not be

• Lovers of their own selves,
  
• covetous,
  
• boasters,
  
• proud,
  
• blasphemers,
  
• disobedient to parents,
  
• unthankful,
  
• unholy,
  
• Without natural affection,
  
• trucebreakers,
  
• false accusers,
  
• incontinent,
  
• fierce,
  
• despisers of those that are good,
  
• Traitors,
  
• heady,
  
• highminded,
  
• lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
  
• Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof

Paul just meant that those other people in the two ages to come (?) will be like that.

Our generation couldn't possibly be described like this because we are good and just keep getting better, don't we?

Well since in your great wisdom you seem to miss that this is pretty much the state of sinful men throughout all generations. it would hardly qualify to fit one particular one. So, if your trying to debate that it is endemic in this one verses any other....epic fail.

 

[Rev20]

And yet, even with stupid little stories that demonstrate one persons supposed superiority over 600,000 other believers. Among Pentecostals alone, 60,000-100,000 non believers a day are becoming believers.

Daniel, I was not disputing your numbers. What I found humorous was your pretense that I was somehow faithless. That is funny!

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Daniel, I was not disputing your numbers. What I found humorous was your pretense that I was somehow faithless. That is funny!

My mistake, sorry.

 

[ron4shua]

Dear Brother , I think I know what YOU think your post explains , but I've heard this same mumbo jumbo for sixth years !

HOW ABOUT THREE SCRIPTURES , to witness your claim in a version of your choice , then we'll dance .

Originally Posted by ron4shua

Greetings Saints , " Question for Preterists " . Daniel Martinovich
you posted what's below .
"Well.... it ain't the last days so you can go ahead and keep prophesying that falsehood along with the rest of them. As for me an my house, we will serve the Lord with a little intelligence and continue seeing the prophecies for this age being fulfilled. (This age not the last two.)"

How do you read Hebrews 9:26 since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world,but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested; 27 and as it is laid up to men once to die, and after this -- judgment,
28 so also the Christ, once having been offered to bear the sins of many, a second time, apart from a sin-offering, shall appear, to those waiting for him -- to salvation!
Young's Literal Translation

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Hebrews%209:26

Acts 2:14 and Peter having stood up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and declared to them, `Men, Jews! and all those dwelling in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and harken to my sayings,
17 And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Acts 2:17

Can you match & surpass these Scripture truths to
" The last days " ? Can anyone discredit & invalidate "SAITH GOD " ?

I'm not a preterist as I perceive you have judged preterism . If you wish to label my views or doctrine holdings of Eschatology . Please make it , Partial Fulfilled , please .
​

Yeah, I can match them to the last days of the old covenant age which ended in great judgment 70 AD. In fact that is what 95% of the New Testament end time prophecies are referring to UNITL you get to the book of Revelation. Only one chapter of its end time prophecies are referring to the end of the Old covenant age. The rest of its end time prophecies, about 14 chapters prophesied about the Age of the Gentiles and its end in 1453 AD when the Roman Empire fell. This age has it's own set of prophesies, 100+ chapters of them. There are no specific prophesies in the Bible about the end of this age. Not saying it doesn't have an end. Not saying Christ has not been coming to judge nations since 1453 AD. Just saying there are no specific prophecies about its end or any more ages that may lay ahead of us.
If you want to know what could possibly qualify for prophecies about this age that are not end time prophecies you could look at this thread I started. It has three chapters of them.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7859464/ __________________

Your link is nothing but " what-ifs ", if you can present a bona fide position some thing of a statement not just conjecture ,
hop to , Brother .

The preacher sought to find out pleasing words, and, written [by] the upright, words of truth. 11 Words of the wise [are] as goads, and as fences planted [by] the masters of collections, they have been given by one shepherd.
12 And further, from these, my son, be warned; the making of many books hath no end, and much study [is] a weariness of the flesh.
13 The end of the whole matter let us hear: -- `Fear God, and keep His commands, for this [is] the whole of man.
14 For every work doth God bring into judgment, with every hidden thing, whether good or bad.'
Young's Literal Translation

 

[Daniel Martinovich]

Dear Brother , I think I know what YOU think your post explains , but I've heard this same mumbo jumbo for sixth years !

Ummm, no, you haven't.

HOW ABOUT THREE SCRIPTURES , to witness your claim in a version of your choice , then we'll dance .!

I just gave you 2.5 chapters. Can you tell me what I am teaching by my discourse? I'm a quite doubtful. If you can't then why are acting like you have the faintest idea what I am saying?

Your link is nothing but " what-ifs ", if you can present a bona fide position some thing of a statement not just conjecture ,
hop to , Brother .

To you maybe. To a reasonable or spiritual person, I think it is pretty clear.

I think you are playing games Ron.
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