Question for Muslims

[BlueCelt]

Hey all!

Sorry if this has been covered already, but I couldn't see it in former posts. I was curious what the opinion of Muslims is of Atheists. Both in practice and from the Koran (sp?). Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

Blue

 

[hamba2han]

Atheists deny the existence of their Creator and Sustainer and so it should not come as a surprise to anyone that Islam's view of atheists is not good at all.

And this is what the Qur'an says about the fate that will befall disbelievers in the Hereafter:

“But those who disbelieve and deny Our signs will be companions of the Fire; they will abide therein.” .. [Sura al-Baqarah, 2:39]

“Those who have disbelieved and died while they are disbelievers will have the curse of Allah upon them and the [curse of the ] angels and all of mankind. [they will abide] eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will the punishment be postponed.” .. [Sura al-Baqarah, 2:161-162]

 

[Druweid]

Sorry if this has been covered already, but I couldn't see it in former posts. I was curious what the opinion of Muslims is of Atheists. Both in practice and from the Koran (sp?). Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

Atheists deny the existence of their Creator and Sustainer and so it should not come as a surprise to anyone that Islam's view of atheists is not good at all.

And this is what the Qur'an says about the fate that will befall disbelievers in the Hereafter:

“But those who disbelieve and deny Our signs will be companions of the Fire; they will abide therein.” .. [Sura al-Baqarah, 2:39]

“Those who have disbelieved and died while they are disbelievers will have the curse of Allah upon them and the [curse of the ] angels and all of mankind. [they will abide] eternally therein. The punishment will not be lightened for them, nor will the punishment be postponed.” .. [Sura al-Baqarah, 2:161-162]

If I might propose a slight variation to the OP; what about Agnostics? Those who believe that the Divine is simply unknowable?

Just a thought,
-- Druweid

 

[anatolian]

They 'dis-believe' Allah too. Islam has "a bit" of agnosticism since we believe that Allah is unknowable in fact and we can know Him as much as He lets us to know.But we don't disbelieve Him and believe Him but the agnostics decide to disbelieve.

 

[anatolian]

Hey all!

Sorry if this has been covered already, but I couldn't see it in former posts. I was curious what the opinion of Muslims is of Atheists. Both in practice and from the Koran (sp?). Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

Blue

We view you as ignorants who need to be informed.

 

[awitch]

We view you as ignorants who need to be informed.

I bet the feeling is mutual

 

[Druweid]

They 'dis-believe' Allah too. Islam has "a bit" of agnosticism since we believe that Allah is unknowable in fact and we can know Him as much as He lets us to know.But we don't disbelieve Him and believe Him but the agnostics decide to disbelieve.

Perhaps you would find it encouraging to know that, in my personal experience, there are some agnostics that do not actively disbelieve. They might say they believe there's "something" out there, but don't pursue further knowledge, not out of disbelief, but out of a sense of futility.

-- Druweid

 

[fjcruiser]

Hey all!

Sorry if this has been covered already, but I couldn't see it in former posts. I was curious what the opinion of Muslims is of Atheists. Both in practice and from the Koran (sp?). Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

Blue

As far as I know Quran doesn't say anything specific about atheists. There is a specific word in arabic for atheists, but Quran doesn't use that word. It uses a general word for disbelievers which would include both atheists and theists. Quran doesn't go pointing out specifically faiths, rather it has issue-response approach. So it doesn't have any specific about atheists, but you can look at aspects and issues in atheist beliefs and look at the Quran's responses on them.

It will be very time consuming to collect all those and list them here.

I'll tell why I'm feeling uncomfortable with giving my opinion, I'll use the verses brother hamba2han gave as an example.

He quoted one or two verses, and in that quote it may look like it is talking about atheists or apply to atheist, but if you look at sourrounding verses, it is actually addressing children of Israel.

We said: "O Adam! dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden; and eat of the bountiful things therein as (where and when) ye will; but approach not this tree, or ye run into harm and transgression."

Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time."

Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

"But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."

"But those who reject Faith and belie Our Signs, they shall be companions of the Fire; they shall abide therein."

O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your covenant with Me as I fulfil My Covenant with you, and fear none but Me.

And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you, and be not the first to reject Faith therein, nor sell My Signs for a small price; and fear Me, and Me alone.

And cover not Truth with falsehood, nor conceal the Truth when ye know (what it is).

And be steadfast in prayer; practise regular charity; and bow down your heads with those who bow down (in worship).

Do ye enjoin right conduct on the people, and forget (To practise it) yourselves, and yet ye study the Scripture? Will ye not understand?

Nay, seek (Allah's) help with patient perseverance and prayer: It is indeed hard, except to those who bring a lowly spirit,-

Who bear in mind the certainty that they are to meet their Lord, and that they are to return to Him.

Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other (for My Message).

Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).

And remember, We delivered you from the people of Pharaoh: They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons and let your women-folk live; therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord.

And remember We divided the sea for you and saved you and drowned Pharaoh's people within your very sight.

And remember We appointed forty nights for Moses, and in his absence ye took the calf (for worship), and ye did grievous wrong.

Even then We did forgive you; there was a chance for you to be grateful.

And remember We gave Moses the Scripture and the Criterion (Between right and wrong): There was a chance for you to be guided aright.

[Quran 2:035-53

It is mostly likely covering other people there, but how? There is no short cut.

But I can guide you to a better person who has spent good time in studying Quran and tafsirs, and I trust that person's opinion to give a knowledgeable answer. If you are interested I will pm you link to the forum where you can find that person.

 

[dnihila]

Hey all!

Sorry if this has been covered already, but I couldn't see it in former posts. I was curious what the opinion of Muslims is of Atheists. Both in practice and from the Koran (sp?). Any info would be appreciated. Thanks!

Blue

I will make this as the first post in this Thread and I will say:
You athiests are like scholars who sacrificied their souls for the sake of knowledge. You are like the abandoned scientists who were rejected by their own families for the time they spent in searching for knowledge.
You fed your brain to the extreme and forgot your soul.
You pleased your body with pleasures to the extreme and to the dust it will return.
Books might be burned, theories might be proved their mistakes, science might be destructive but your soul the one you had stayed the same since you were infants. Your body grew and sometimes its capacity may let you down but what stays loyal to you is your soul, the one you left hungry and isolated. Your soul the one that fought hard to keep you alive and to encourage your body parts to work properly and won't leave you till the Death Angle is commanded to take it out of your body and it is not an easy thing to happen, the easier it goes out the stronger your faith is.
And that's why prophets left and sinners stayed.
The larger faithful steps you make toward the Creator, the faster He reaches you to take you to Heaven.
Think about how many book writers and geniuses you met or read about, you will find that you can't count on one of them but you need to accept every word of wisdome said by everyone. This means that your journey is endless to move from one book to another, to read books that contradict each other, to accept something and to refuse another. This might lead me to ask you where are you among all those people? Whom do you belong to?
Are you an abandoned body or a free soul that belongs to no one but to the One who created it?
Do you think that those wise people all agreed on at least one thing?
Everyone of them tries to show his/her muscles to prove his/her own ideas and when they made those famous quotes, they didn't think about you because they think of no one but themselves.
Those people didn't know that you will exist and they don't have the power to care about you and they left you the left overs of their witty feast. So, do have the appetite to eat what's not yours and not meant to be yours?
And do you have the energy to maintain this road you chose?
Are you willing to be the worlds' human trash to absorb every word humans write?
Why do you believe in them while you don't have the ability to believe in yourself?
Knowledge is encouraged by the Holy religions to make you see what your eyes can't see through your heart and brain.
Look at your own body, your organs are protected by your outer shape and they all work in harmony although they are different. And you may ask the question, Whom they are working for? They are working for you to serve them in return and your soul needs higher nourishments more than your body cause body might turn into dust and the soul will live forever.
Ask yourself another question:
Why do you dream of dead people in new situations that you didn't go through with them? Why do they speak to you if they are gone?
And don't tell me its memory, cause memory recalls what it went through but can't creat a new experience.
Think about why do you lose concscious while you are asleep and all your body parts are working without being stopped?
Why sleeping is different than being awake?
If in both cases your body parts are working. Is it just because you close your eyes? Is it a body disease that makes you sleep everyday?
Where do you go when you are asleep? Why can't you control yourself while you are asleep? Why do you dream of new and old things? Why do some dreams come true?
This is only one thing to think about and you will discover that you are not responsible of yourself but their is the Creator who cares about you alot.

 

[BlueCelt]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I was really curious what the response would be since I know next to nothing about the Muslim perspective towards agnostics/atheists. Thank you for informing me.

Blue

 

[Druweid]

I will make this as the first post in this Thread and I will say:
You athiests are like scholars who sacrificied their souls for the sake of knowledge. You are like the abandoned scientists who were rejected by their own families for the time they spent in searching for knowledge.
You fed your brain to the extreme and forgot your soul.

Okay, that having been said, what would you make of the statement, "Religion without science is lame, science without religion is blind?"

Kindest regards,
-- Druweid

 

[BlueCelt]

will make this as the first post in this Thread and I will say:
You athiests are like scholars who sacrificied their souls for the sake of knowledge. You are like the abandoned scientists who were rejected by their own families for the time they spent in searching for knowledge.

I don't understand what you are saying about being abandoned here. Actually I am quite close with my family, most of which are very religious.

You fed your brain to the extreme and forgot your soul.
You pleased your body with pleasures to the extreme and to the dust it will return.

No real arguments here. I do feed my brain and I don't believe that I have an eternal soul so you could say I forgot it. We all end up in the dust when we die. Barring cremation of course.

Books might be burned, theories might be proved their mistakes, science might be destructive but your soul the one you had stayed the same since you were infants.

Religions change. Not to many people worshiping Osiris anymore. And science doesn't look for phlogiston anymore.

Your body grew and sometimes its capacity may let you down but what stays loyal to you is your soul, the one you left hungry and isolated. Your soul the one that fought hard to keep you alive and to encourage your body parts to work properly and won't leave you till the Death Angle is commanded to take it out of your body and it is not an easy thing to happen, the easier it goes out the stronger your faith is.
And that's why prophets left and sinners stayed.

Again no belief in a soul here. I believe in my mind and my personality and my concept of self. Not understanding the thing about the death angel and the prophets leaving and sinners staying. Could you clarify?

The larger faithful steps you make toward the Creator, the faster He reaches you to take you to Heaven.

That is awesome if that's how it worked out for you and that's your belief system. In my days as a Christian and then as a Wiccan, the Creator never showed itself or any proof. I looked at how humans came about and how the universe works and see more a wonder of nature and existence without the need for a Creator.

Think about how many book writers and geniuses you met or read about, you will find that you can't count on one of them but you need to accept every word of wisdome said by everyone. This means that your journey is endless to move from one book to another, to read books that contradict each other, to accept something and to refuse another.

Well I do always try to learn. Knowledge changes with new information. I don't know why you say one must accept everything from everyone. Why would I have to do that? I have sets of beliefs and ethical standards that are exclusionary to other schools of thought.

This might lead me to ask you where are you among all those people? Whom do you belong to?
Are you an abandoned body or a free soul that belongs to no one but to the One who created it?

I belong to myself. I'm my own property and my own responsibility.

Do you think that those wise people all agreed on at least one thing?
Everyone of them tries to show his/her muscles to prove his/her own ideas and when they made those famous quotes, they didn't think about you because they think of no one but themselves.
Those people didn't know that you will exist and they don't have the power to care about you and they left you the left overs of their witty feast. So, do have the appetite to eat what's not yours and not meant to be yours?

Why do they have to think of me? Where is that from?

And do you have the energy to maintain this road you chose?

Absolutely. Its a thrilling journey is life.

Are you willing to be the worlds' human trash to absorb every word humans write?
Why do you believe in them while you don't have the ability to believe in yourself?

This is two different concepts. I don't believe everything I read. I test it. And as for believing in myself, that's one of the few things I can fully believe in. I know I'm me. I maybe a little crazy and odd sometimes...but still me.

Look at your own body, your organs are protected by your outer shape and they all work in harmony although they are different. And you may ask the question, Whom they are working for? They are working for you to serve them in return and your soul needs higher nourishments more than your body cause body might turn into dust and the soul will live forever.

My organs are me, they are not separate. Do you talk to your spleen? I am actually studying human anatomy this semester and we are all of a piece, not something separate. Its all one package.

Ask yourself another question:
Why do you dream of dead people in new situations that you didn't go through with them? Why do they speak to you if they are gone?
And don't tell me its memory, cause memory recalls what it went through but can't creat a new experience.
Think about why do you lose concscious while you are asleep and all your body parts are working without being stopped?
Why sleeping is different than being awake?

I don't recall ever dreaming of dead people I've known so this is a little odd. And actually we can create new experiences without memory. Imagination is a useful tool. We sleep because we need to rest. Sleeping, depending on if you are in REM or non REM sleep, is a disconnect of our higher brain functions.

Where do you go when you are asleep? Why can't you control yourself while you are asleep? Why do you dream of new and old things? Why do some dreams come true?

Higher Brain functions are disengaged. In a sense though you do still control yourself. Look at sleep walking. Also you're still pumping blood, digesting food, making new cells. Remember you are your body.

This is only one thing to think about and you will discover that you are not responsible of yourself but their is the Creator who cares about you alot.

So if the Creator is responsible for myself and not me, that means I have no responsibility for my actions. That's horrible. I can do anything then and its the Creator's responsibility. Hogwash, I have never seen a Creator step up and claim responsibility for a speeding ticket or a late mortgage payment. Rather the more rational explanation is I am responsible for myself.

Thanks for some interesting questions dnihila. I quite enjoyed them.

Best,

Blue

 

[hamba2han]

... I looked at how humans came about and how the universe works and see more a wonder of nature and existence without the need for a Creator...

If you wish to know what the Creator and Sustainer has done for you lately, then I would suggest that you take a look at what is on your plate the next time you sit down for a meal.

Who is it that gave life to the crops that your bread or rice came from?

Who is it that gave life to the animal that your meat came from?

Who is it that gave life to all the plants that bear the vegetables and fruits of the world?

Who is it that gives life to all of the vegetation in the world which provides the oxygen that we breathe?

Hint -- It sure isn't 'Mother Nature' for "she" cannot even survive without the rays of the Sun.

Who is it that created the Sun?

If you gather a team of the world's best doctors and surgeons in the emergency ward, can they give life back to a fresh corpse?

If every biological scientist in the world were to come together, can they create and give life to just one mosquito or even a single-cell bacteria?

The reason why the creations need to worship and show gratitude to their Creator and Sustainer is to benefit their own selves, NOT for His benefit because He has absolutely no need for their worship.

 

[BlueCelt]

Hamba2han thank you for your response. But I have one back for you if you don't mind. In all your examples what makes you think that a "who" has to be responsible for it and not just natural processes? I'll be happy to worship a Creator when He/She/It decides to reveal themselves beyond their followers saying have faith.

Blue

 

[hamba2han]

Hamba2han thank you for your response. But I have one back for you if you don't mind. In all your examples what makes you think that a "who" has to be responsible for it and not just natural processes? I'll be happy to worship a Creator when He/She/It decides to reveal themselves beyond their followers saying have faith.

Blue

Muslims worship the One who created the bacterial flagellum.

Scientists have known about the flagellum for some time. However, its structural details, which have only emerged over the last decade or so, have come as a great surprise to them. It has been discovered that the flagellum moves by means of a very complicated "organic motor," and not by a simple vibratory mechanism as was earlier believed. This propeller-like engine is constructed on the same mechanical principles as an electric motor. There are two main parts to it: a moving part (the "rotor") and a stationary one (the "stator").

The bacterial flagellum is different from all other organic systems that produce mechanical motion. The cell does not utilize available energy stored as ATP molecules. Instead, it has a special energy source: Bacteria use energy from the flow of ions across their outer cell membranes. The inner structure of the motor is extremely complex. Approximately 240 distinct proteins go into constructing the flagellum. Each one of these is carefully positioned. Scientists have determined that these proteins carry the signals to turn the motor on or off, form joints to facilitate movements at the atomic scale, and activate other proteins that connect the flagellum to the cell membrane. The models constructed to summarize the working of the system are enough to depict the complicated nature of the system.

​

An electric motor-but not one in a household appliance or vehicle. This one is in a bacterium. Thanks to this motor, bacteria have been able to move those organs known as "flagella" and thus swim in water.This was discovered in the 1970s, and astounded the world of science, because this "irreducibly complex" organ, made up of some 240 distinct proteins, cannot be explained by chance mechanisms as Darwin had proposed.
(click on image to read more)​

The bacterial flagellum is different from all other organic systems that produce mechanical motion. The cell does not utilize available energy stored as ATP molecules. Instead, it has a special energy source: Bacteria use energy from the flow of ions across their outer cell membranes. The inner structure of the motor is extremely complex. Approximately 240 distinct proteins go into constructing the flagellum. Each one of these is carefully positioned. Scientists have determined that these proteins carry the signals to turn the motor on or off, form joints to facilitate movements at the atomic scale, and activate other proteins that connect the flagellum to the cell membrane. The models constructed to summarize the working of the system are enough to depict the complicated nature of the system.

The complicated structure of the bacterial flagellum is sufficient all by itself to demolish the theory of evolution, since the flagellum has an irreducibly complex structure. If one single molecule in this fabulously complex structure were to disappear, or become defective, the flagellum would neither work nor be of any use to the bacterium. The flagellum must have been working perfectly from the first moment of its existence. This fact again reveals the nonsense in the theory of evolution's assertion of "step by step development." In fact, not one evolutionary biologist has so far succeeded in explaining the origin of the bacterial flagellum although a few tried to do so.

The bacterial flagellum is clear evidence that even in supposedly "primitive" creatures there is an extraordinary design. As humanity learns more about the details, it becomes increasingly obvious that the organisms considered to be the simplest by the scientists of nineteenth century, including Darwin, are in fact just as complex as any others.

Therefore the burden of proof is really on those who do NOT believe in a Creator to show that the bacterial flagellum could have come into existence through just "natural processes".

 

[Raza]

This Atheist guy I know asked whether if our imagination are created by a being or not if this whole world is a figment of out imagination. And then he scoffs it off and says "of course!"
Some Atheist are just dumb.

 

[Montalban]

Thanks for the responses everyone. I was really curious what the response would be since I know next to nothing about the Muslim perspective towards agnostics/atheists. Thank you for informing me.

Blue

Most people back then would have believed in something

 

[Rascaduanok]

Funny how none of the muslims have pointed out (perhaps they don’t believe in doing this themselves, but it’s what their religion demands) that the official Islâmic line towards apostasy involves summary execution of the murtad (= apostate, literally ‘one who turns away&#8217.

 

[dnihila]

Answer this question:
Why every creature is different than the other although they are from the same kind or group?
Even the small cells are one of their kind for every creature , no matter how tiny that creture is?
Creatures may look the same but actually they are different.
Finger prints for example; eye codes, blood types even within the same blood type they are different one from the other.
Every creature is one of its kind because the Creator is One.
This man called Mustafa Mahmoud , an Egyptian scientist
He used to be a very strong athiest but then he became a Muslim
Through his program you may understand why.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8V56aojrBk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR7H8tzOKeg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVDNGtB6mCc&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjv6lYce-l8&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDufzZ0dlcI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZV5bolGe-Q

 

[Rascaduanok]

And this answers the question on apostasy… how?