Question for Muslims, Please Answer

[BigChrisfilm]

Why is this so confusing !!! OK I appreciate everyones insite, and as far as Islam goes, 3 things bother me.
1) I didnt even realize this, but women dont have souls and dont go to heaven or something like that??? ***!
and 2) Christianity came first, and many of the Christian claims have been proven true (from my own study) as someone mentioned earlier. hmmm

I guess I have to put a point on the board for Christianity on this one! (Sorry Muslims). And about Mohammad being predicted in the bible, I looked at that site, and those claims seem very, broad, like...IF you look at it from THIS pov, then it MAYBE sounds like it could be Mohammad, but does the bible say it was the Holy Spirit that was being sent?

I dont know, this is all very confusing, but thanks for your imput.

He is right, the first one is not true, because there is going to be 1000s or virgins in heaven waiting on muslims to have sex with, and they will all get drunk too. Also, I am glad you have come to the same understanding I did about there predictions, they use a very broad approach, that is what their prophet did as well.

 

[Skillganon]

Question for Muslims, Please Answer

Did you get my PM?

 

[BigChrisfilm]

Did you get my PM?

DON'T READ IT! lol.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Three times the muslims have used OUR BIBLE to make their Koran sound true.
Jesus being born of a "virgin", the parakletos promised to the Disciples at Pentecost they say is muhammad and the one like unto Moses prophecied to come is muhammad.
What else do the muslims borrow from OUR BIBLE for the Koran?

 

[Islam_mulia]

BTW I have heard it said that lieing is acceptable to Muslims, as long as it helps bring others to Islam, so never EVER believe anything they say until you check it out for yourself, I have ran into this many times already on this thread, be carefull.

hah? care to provide your proof?

 

[benmaarof]

1) I understand Muslims believe the Old Testament, or atleast parts of it? Do you believe all of parts of the Old Testament? Is it right to pick and choose what you do believe IF YOU DO pick and choose (not saying you do, but if indeed that is the case)

We believe that there were people (prophets) that once received revelations from God. Muslims are required to believe that those prophets existed and that they were righteous people that recieved divine guidance. But we don't have to believe that the OT as we know it in the Bible were those exact revelations.

Not believing that those prophets received divine revelations is UnIslamic.
But not believing the Bible (as written by the Rabbis and scribes) as the true revelation is Okay.

2) If you believe the Old Testament ( to some degree), what do you say about the Jewish Messiah that was promised to the Jews? Does he have any influence on your religion? Do you think that Yeshua was that messiah?

Jesus is the Messiah. But his mission was to the Jews, not Universal (for every race and creed)

3) How do you account for the promise that God made in the Old Testament that he would deliver a savior, but that savior is not the center-part of your religion? The old testament clearly states that the messiah would be the path to God, but I dont recall any Muslims ever stating that Muhammad was the messiah?

The OT was right the Messiah is the path to God, but certainly not God.
Any Muslim that does not believe in Jesus as a righteous prophet is not a Muslim.

Quran 003.059 The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.

Quran 002.087 We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of apostles; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you an apostle with what ye yourselves desire n
ot, ye are puffed up with pride?- Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!

Quran 003.045 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

Quran 004.171 O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of God aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of God, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so bel
ieve in God and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.

4) I understand that Muhammad could not read or write? And that he also died many years before the Koran was even written? How do you know what is in the Koran is what was actaully revealed to him? How much historical accuracy is there to the Koran?

Actually the revelations that later would form the Quran came bit by bit. Sometime it would came in long verses, sometime short. For over a period of, if I'm not mistaken , 23 years. And it was witten down. On paper, palm frons, even on the bone shoulder blades of camel.

And since, it came bit by bit, then it was much easier for the Muslims to memorise those verses. As each new ones were revealed they would just memorised them bit by bit.

So, the Quran was not written down years after the Prophet had died. But it was compiled into a single unit years after he had died. And it was checked and verified with those companions that managed to memorise the whole of the revelations in it's entirety. Even now, you can find many number of people that's memorised the whole of the Quran

That's why we are confident that what we have was what that had been revealed.

5) Why it is the Muslims are allowed to kill people if they are not Muslims? That doesnt seem like a very civil and "godly" way to have people convert.

Let the Quran speak for it self.

Quran
2:190 Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.

2:191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight yo u, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

2:192 But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

2:193 And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility EXCEPT to those who practise oppression.

Quran
002.256 Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand- hold, that never breaks. And God heareth and knoweth all things.

This is different than what Paul taught.

2 Chronicles 15:13 "All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman."

 

[benmaarof]

6) Do other people who believe in the God of the Old Testament (I.E. Jews, Christians) still go to heaven according to Islamic belief? How about people that hold no belief in a higher being?

We are forbidden to say who goes to heaven and who does not. That's God's determination.

7) If Jesus was only a prophet (as I understand you all believe), then how is it possible that he fulfilled all the prophicies of the Messiah and performed miracles and is still not the Son of God?

Other prophets also performed miracles. But they are still not sons of God. And were there anywhere in the OT that said anyone who fulfilled those prophecies and performed miracles would be the son of God? Why weren't the Jews expecting that the Messiah to be the son of God?

8) Are you 100% sure that Islam is the truth given by the one true God, and that Christianity is indeed a flase religion, and that it is not the way to heaven?

It all goes down to logic and reason.

God is Absolute Unity - Logical
God is one in three - Illogical

God does not have a son and He owns everythng - logical
God sacrificing a son when He's supposed to own everything which make the idea of God making a sacrifice ridiculous when sacrificing mean losing something- Illogical

9) I understand that Muslims believe that you have 2 angels around you at all time. That 1 records your bad deeds, and the other records your good, but that regardless of how well you lived your life, in the end, you could still go to hell, because Allah is always kind of in a bad mood. Is this true? Are you really only saved by the good deeds you do?

No, we only get saved by God's Grace. Not because of our deeds.

It's like being a employee. You only get a promotion or a raise if only your boss says so. No matter how hard you work your a$$ off (pardon my French), you won't get a promotion nor a raise if your boss does not allow it. But working hard does get you on his good side.

So doing good deed, increases your chances of attaining Salvation.

Quran 003.074 For His Mercy He specially chooseth whom He pleaseth; for God is the Lord of bounties unbounded.

 

[warghaha]

So doing good deed, increases your chances of attaining Salvation.

I think what you meant is, the good deeds is a test whether we're a true Muslim or not

We don't work with chances. But we don't say being a Muslim is a ticket straight to heaven either. We do good deeds because that was Allah's command and to reflect our belief. How can we said we're a submitter to Allah if we're not doing good deeds. And surely if we declare we're a Muslim, we'll be ready to be tested.

[Sura 29:23] Do they think that they will be left alone on saying, 'We believe and that they will not be tested'? For sure we will test them as we have tested those who came before them, to show (them) the truthful of the honest and the liars in their falsehood.

In any condition, bad or good, it's a test whether we'll still do good deeds or not. And Allah knows best.

Salaam.

 

[benmaarof]

I think what you meant is, the good deeds is a test whether we're a true Muslim or not

We don't work with chances. But we don't say being a Muslim is a ticket straight to heaven either. We do good deeds because that was Allah's command and to reflect our belief. How can we said we're a submitter to Allah if we're not doing good deeds. And surely if we declare we're a Muslim, we'll be ready to be tested.

[Sura 29:23] Do they think that they will be left alone on saying, 'We believe and that they will not be tested'? For sure we will test them as we have tested those who came before them, to show (them) the truthful of the honest and the liars in their falsehood.

In any condition, bad or good, it's a test whether we'll still do good deeds or not. And Allah knows best.

Salaam.

Yours is a better explaination.

Salaam.

 

[YahwehisHisname]

hah? care to provide your proof?

Ishaq, Tabari and Bukhari all report the same thing. A Muslim is allowed to lie in order to make us easier prey. They even have a name for it(the legal lie), and they laugh at how stupid we are are in America. Examples of the legal lie are Islam is peaceful and that we all worship the same god.



“Muhammad bin Maslamah said, ‘O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.’ ‘Say what you like,’ Muhammad replied. ‘You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.’”



“Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?’ Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslamah got up saying, ‘O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like me to kill him?’ The Prophet said, ‘Yes,’ Maslamah said, ‘Then allow me to say false things in order to deceive him.’ The Prophet said, ‘You may say such things.’”

Hurt Allah? How do you hurt god?

There's your proof. But by all means, ignore it. It may be just my opinion or perhaps I took it out of context from a book that lacks context. And maybe it's just a coincidence that I see Muslims following this example every single day- even here. Muslims will ignore the evidence and continue to lie. In another thread, I wouldn't be surprsed to see someone say lying is prohibited in Islam even after reading the proof. This is Islam in action. Get use to it. Chris, do not get frustrated over this. I can relate brother, but we must tell ourselves that this is where we are. Everything happening in the world is EXACTLY the way it MUST be in order for the end time prophesies to pan out. We have to be this ignorant of Islam for it to be able to do what it does. You think someone like me could ever get elected in ANY office ? No chance. We had to have Bush in the office to replace a secular Gov with a fundamental Shiite theocracy. They would never have joined with Iran had it not changed leaders. The heart and soul of the Magog federation is a unified Iran/Iraq. Russia had to lose it's iron clad grip on the southern "stan" states for them to do what they do. Turkey had to elect a fundamentalist Muslim recently in order for her to play the role that she plays. Europe had to become awash in tolerance, for them to sit by idly while the events surround them( displayed by the weeks of car fires and bombings). We had to build up arms in the 80's to have the weapons needed to create the carnage John describes in Revelation. On and on and on. We are watching scripture unfold in front of our eyes. How many are watching?

Now, the other thing I see here that needs to be straightened out is this; Muhammed would not allow the Quran to be written down during his lifetime. One tried and was killed by Muhammed. There was nothing written down. Everything was passed down from generation to generation via hearsay. Word of mouth.

All that is known about Muhammad is contained in the Hadith collections compiled by Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari, and Muslim and what can be gleaned from Muhammad’s chaotic, non-contextual, and non-chronological Qur’anic rant. There isn’t a single independent historical account of his life written within three centuries of his death. Those are the facts. So everything known about Muhammad and his creation of Islam was retained via hearsay for four to eight generations. It is akin to someone today writing about the American revolution via hearsay.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

“Muhammad bin Maslamah said, ‘O Messenger, we shall have to tell lies.’ ‘Say what you like,’ Muhammad replied. ‘You are absolved, free to say whatever you must.’”

There's your proof. But by all means, ignore it. It may be just my opinion or perhaps I took it out of context from a book that lacks context. And maybe it's just a coincidence that I see Muslims following this example every single day- even here. Muslims will ignore the evidence and continue to lie.

Just like they LIE about muhammad being the One to come in the OT. Sigh.

Acts 3:22 Moses, indeed, said--A prophet, unto you, shall the Lord God raise up among your brethren, like unto me: unto him, shall ye hearken respecting all things whatsoever he shall speak unto you.

(Young) Mark 9:7 And there came a cloud overshadowing them, and there came a Voice out of the cloud, saying, `This is My Son--the Beloved, hear ye him!!!!;'

 

[YahwehisHisname]

Correct.
Islam also says that a treaty between a Muslim and non Muslim is non binding on the Muslim. This is something we may want to pay attention to as we try to make a democracy in Iraq(whatajoke). Hudibiyah(forgive me on the spelling, but I think it's close) is the promise Muhammed broke one year after agreeing to it. On Egyptian TV, after Oslo, Arafat proclaimed that he signed it in the spirit of Hudibiyah. It is ultimately the reason the tribulation kicks off.

 

[Charles_Murphy]

First and foremost is to determine who is worthy of your worship. Now I would say that the only being worthy of your worship is your creator. Then you need to determine who your creator is and just worship him - no-one else. Now I would say, that it doesn't matter what name you call him so long as you are referring to the all-mighty, all-powerful creator who has created everything. Now of the three beings in the trinity, who would you say fits the criteria of the all-mighty? I would say, The Father. So worship just him (as Jesus did) and do not associate partners with him.

Secondly, I would suggest finding out as much as you can about the historical Jesus. That is, non-religious opinions of Jesus. And try to create a picture of him and what he may have preached.

 

[YahwehisHisname]

First and foremost is to determine who is worthy of your worship. Now I would say that the only being worthy of your worship is your creator. Then you need to determine who your creator is and just worship him - no-one else.


Agree, except He has to prove that He is worthy of trust- and Yahweh does.

Now I would say, that it doesn't matter what name you call him so long as you are referring to the all-mighty, all-powerful creator who has created everything.


It matters plenty. Allah is not Yahweh. Their names are as different as their natures, missions, plans, and scriptures. Moreover, it is not plausible to assume a relationship with ANYTHING that remains nameless, because you can't really know someone without even knowing their name. Upon learning His name, and coming to know Him, one is welcome to address Him as they please, but one would NEVER call Him a Pagan gods' name after learning what He desires of us.


Now of the three beings in the trinity,


That term is a manmade term that causes much confusion. Yahweh manefested Himself for the different purposes the Messiah and set apart spirit serve. They are all Yahweh.

who would you say fits the criteria of the all-mighty? I would say, The Father. So worship just him (as Jesus did) and do not associate partners with him.

Explained above

Secondly, I would suggest finding out as much as you can about the historical Jesus.

Me too. Learn that His name is not Jesus, and He was the anointed messiah that filled every prophesy pertaining to Him. Many of which are impossible to fill today.

That is, non-religious opinions of Jesus.

All secular writtings concur what the gospels teach us.

And try to create a picture of him and what he may have preached.


The scriptures are a wonderful tool for that. That is one of the two reasons God came to dwell with us. To show us what He is like. The other to redeem us with a gift of salvation. Isaiah tells us Yahweh would accomplish this as Yshayah’el. That means God existing as a man. Here is one of the most powerful verses in scripture.

“Of the exceeding greatness and magnitude of (marbeh – of the abundance of the multitude of offspring resulting from) His favor and restoration (shalowm – recompense and restitution, completeness and perfection, prosperity and peace, rest and reward, friendship and blessing) and of His supreme authority and power (misrah – dominion and rule, government and sovereignty; from sarah, meaning power to persist and preserve) nothing (‘ayin) will ever diminish throughout all of space-time (qets – they are infinite, and without limit or constraint, in space and in time). He shall rule upon the throne (kicce’) of David (dawid – of love) and in the midst of (‘al – on behalf of and for the sake of) His realm (mamlakah – kingdom and dominion), rendering it sure and prosperous (kuwn – establishing it upright, prepared, and firm; stable and secure; enduring and steadfast), restoring and renewing it (sa’ad – supporting, upholding, strengthening, and comforting; healing, refreshing, and sustaining it) with verdicts that are just (mishpat – judgments and decisions which are proper and fitting), vindicating and justified (tsadaqah – making many appear innocent, righteous, and upright) from this time forth (‘attah – from now) and forevermore (‘ad ‘owlam – for a continuous existence throughout all eternity, for an unlimited duration of time without end). The passion (qinah – the intense feeling, energy, deep devotion, and enduring love) of Yahuweh (YHWH), of the assembled servants (tsaba’ – Yahuweh’s spiritual messengers), will accomplish, produce, and perform this work (‘asah – will fashion and achieve this effect, endeavor, cause, labor, and offering) as ‘Yshayah’el (a compound of ‘el, God, hayah, existing as, and ‘ysh, man)!” (Yasha’yahu/Isaiah 9:7)