Question for former christians

cloudyday2 · Jan 8, 2018

MehGuy said:
Was more asking what you think of people who seem to have contradicting experiences of God.

Which ones are justified to be labeled correct and which ones wrong?

Probably we must trust our instincts? Some of my "spiritual" experiences were hard to translate into a coherent message. I finally decided that God was trying to show two alternative ways of thinking about Him and why one was wrong and the other was correct. But I suppose it might have been two different ideas in my mind competing.

It's all guesswork no matter what. Even doctrinaire atheism is a guess, and I change my guesses as I get new ideas.

MehGuy · Jan 8, 2018

AV1611VET said:
You missed a lot then.

It contains the most beautiful poetry on earth; and even the layout of its books are inspired.

For example, it consists of 39 books, broken down as follows:

17 history ... 5 poetry ... 17 prophecy

Those can be further broken down as follows:

5 books of Moses / 12 books of Canaanite history ... 5 poetry ... 5 major prophets / 12 minor prophets

And those can be broken down further and further.

The Old Testament is truly an amazing piece of divine literature!

Never was a fan of poetry, lol.

cloudyday2 · Jan 8, 2018

AV1611VET said:
The Old Testament is truly an amazing piece of divine literature!

I always preferred OT to NT, because most of the NT is instructions about correct belief and behavior. The NT is boring compared to the narratives in the OT.

AV1611VET · Jan 8, 2018

MehGuy said:
Never was a fan of poetry, lol.

You a fan of justification, adoption, sanctification, prayer, justice, mercy, grace, miracles, war, peace, angels, general history ... any of the above?

There's enough in the Old Testament to impress anyone.

Did you know that Jacob engaged in hand-to-hand combat with Jesus Christ?

AV1611VET · Jan 8, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
I always preferred OT to NT, because most of the NT is instructions about correct belief and behavior. The NT is boring compared to the narratives in the OT.

Ya .... the NT consists of Church epistles, prison epistles, and pastoral epistles.

Romans compares Jesus to the Law, and shows Jesus a better way.

Hebrews compares Jesus to the Levitical priesthood, and shows Jesus the only way.

MehGuy · Jan 8, 2018

AV1611VET said:
You a fan of justification, adoption, sanctification, prayer, justice, mercy, grace, miracles, war, peace, angels, general history ... any of the above?

There's enough in the Old Testament to impress anyone.

Depends how those things are shown. The old testament just seems less psychologically interesting to me.

Did you know that Jacob engaged in hand-to-hand combat with Jesus Christ?

If they made an epic film covering the old testament.. I'd imagine that scene would be one of the ones to include on the back of the DVD cover, lol.

cloudyday2 · Jan 8, 2018

AV1611VET said:
Ya .... the NT consists of Church epistles, prison epistles, and pastoral epistles.

Romans compares Jesus to the Law, and shows Jesus a better way.

Hebrews compares Jesus to the Levitical priesthood, and shows Jesus the only way.

The only books I enjoyed were Matthew, James, and 1 Peter. ... and I later learned that many scholars consider James and 1 Peter to be forgeries LOL. (Oh I forgot to mention Philemon. That was one of my favorites, because it was so short.)

AV1611VET · Jan 8, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
The only books I enjoyed were Matthew, James, and 1 Peter. ... and I later learned that many scholars consider James and 1 Peter to be forgeries LOL. (Oh I forgot to mention Philemon. That was one of my favorites, because it was so short.)

It's interesting that James, who was Jesus' half-brother, didn't believe in Jesus at first.

John 7:5 For neither did his brethren believe in him.

Yet later, he wrote a book of the Bible (James) detailing how you can spot a Christian a mile away.

What changed his mind about his half-brother? the Resurrection!

MehGuy · Jan 9, 2018

cloudyday2 said:
Probably we must trust our instincts? Some of my "spiritual" experiences were hard to translate into a coherent message. I finally decided that God was trying to show two alternative ways of thinking about Him and why one was wrong and the other was correct. But I suppose it might have been two different ideas in my mind competing.

It's all guesswork no matter what. Even doctrinaire atheism is a guess, and I change my guesses as I get new ideas.

Doesn't sound very reliable. Seems like what people decide is spiritually genuine is what gives them the most positive emotional feedback. Even if personal tastes change over time.

cloudyday2 · Jan 9, 2018

MehGuy said:
Doesn't sound very reliable. Seems like what people decide is spiritually genuine is what gives them the most positive emotional feedback. Even if personal tastes change over time.

Yep, but what else can we do? If the deities don't reach out and clarify, then we are kind of screwed.

bhsmte · Jan 9, 2018

MehGuy said:
Doesn't sound very reliable. Seems like what people decide is spiritually genuine is what gives them the most positive emotional feedback. Even if personal tastes change over time.

And that is precisely why we have so many religions and so many denominations of Christianity alone.

holo · Sep 23, 2018

AV1611VET said:
Did you know that Jacob engaged in hand-to-hand combat with Jesus Christ?

No offense to you, but this is the funniest fun fact I've ever seen. I imagine this popping up in a true-or-false game. I've been giggling for twelve hours

Steve Petersen · Sep 23, 2018

MehGuy said:
Thinking more along the lines of men like Adolf Hitler. While his spirituality or lack of one is highly contested, I'd personally say he derived spiritual feelings from a ruthless force. He seemed to find concepts such as survival of the fittest and the accompanying brutality of that to be Holy and his way of communing with nature. Don't get me wrong, he was a horrible man and one shouldn't have such a spiritualty. Just seems funny that many would discount his feelings, yet the idea that God universally loves everyone despite this dark and cold world that he apparently created is widely accepted.

Schadenfreude. The joy of destruction.

Jane_the_Bane · Sep 24, 2018

ImAllLikeOkWaitWat said:
I don't think the words I could use like breathtaking, powerful, transcendent...really do it justice. It's one of those things you need to see for yourself. If you have felt such power, such warmth, such joy, it would take actual proof God doesn't exist imo to not believe.

Ah, but here's the catch: that kind of experience is NOT limited to Christians ,or even theists. It is a universal human experience. Usually, people interpret it as a confirmation of whatever faith they hold at the time, regardless of what it is.

In my case, such an experience heralded the beginning of my deconversion from Christianity - and ultimately , my rejection of theism (as belief in personal deities with all-too-human personalities and needs). And note: this was not a rejection of what I had experienced, but a direct result of the same. I had been raised a Christian, and at first, my experience matched the benign childhood deity I knew and loved. But then I actually read the Bible, and what I found there was the virtual opposite: a petty , tribalistic, self-aggrandising person who gives Zeus a run for the money in terms of sheer jerkiness. I mean, yeah , Zeus is a serial adulterer who didn't even want mankind to master fire. But at least he does not manipulate foreign kings into refusing his demands and botching negotiations , just so that he can demonstrate his "awesomeness" by murdering the country''s firstborn in their sleep by the thousands.
Nor was Christianity the only religion I studied.
Occasionally, I caught glimpses of people trying to describe the same thing that I had experienced, but it was almost always bogged down by their assumptions and beliefs. Ultimately, I found that every book was too small to contain the Experience , and that even the concept of "god" was already sending you off in a misleading direction.

TheOldWays · Sep 24, 2018

Jane_the_Bane said:
Ah, but here's the catch: that kind of experience is NOT limited to Christians ,or even theists. It is a universal human experience. Usually, people interpret it as a confirmation of whatever faith they hold at the time, regardless of what it is.

true. i've experienced it multiple times when exploring multiple spiritual paths.

Question for former christians

Generic Theist

A member of the less neotenous sex..

Generic Theist

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

A member of the less neotenous sex..

Generic Theist

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE

A member of the less neotenous sex..

Generic Theist

Newbie

former Christian

Senior Veteran

Gaia's godchild

Candidate

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency