Question for Evolutionists

[BMac14]

Ok, before you think "great, another post from a creationist," let me tell you, I'm not a creationist. I lean towards being a theistic evoluntionist. I believe in evolution because I think science and God can coexist together, and that God essentially created science. So I believe God created the universe and used evolution in His process. But now for my question. I am very curious and always seeking for more understanding of other viewpoints. I wondered how you evolutionists believed the universe was started? For example, the big bang theory or my theory. Basically, what is your belief into how everything came into existence?

 

[Dr.GH]

How would you tell the difference between the various "big bang" theories and your version of creation?

 

[BMac14]

How would you tell the difference between the various "big bang" theories and your version of creation?

You know, I'm not sure. Maybe perhaps you can't. I sort of believe it takes some kind of faith to believe in either one. I just want to understand others viewpoints. I like seeking others knowledge for two reasons. One is to question my own thoughts and beliefs. Two is to strengthen my thoughts and beliefs. I guess you could call me very open-minded and willing to hear all explanations.

 

[alerj123]

I wondered how you evolutionists believed the universe was started? For example, the big bang theory or my theory. Basically, what is your belief into how everything came into existence?

Well, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't have anything to do with evolution. So whether god created the universe, or the big bang, evolution is still viable. Now, you may rephrase your question to not target just evolutionists, because i think there are many evolutionists who think along simliar lines as yourself that God started it all and let it go from there. Or something of the sort.

 

[BMac14]

Well, it doesn't really matter. It doesn't have anything to do with evolution. So whether god created the universe, or the big bang, evolution is still viable. Now, you may rephrase your question to not target just evolutionists, because i think there are many evolutionists who think along simliar lines as yourself that God started it all and let it go from there. Or something of the sort.

Well, I targeted evolutionists because I did not want answers from creationists that I already I understand. Maybe I should have gone along the lines of scientists or something like that. I know this actually has nothing to do with evolution. And I know some have the same belief as me. But I am curious as to what other beliefs are that also believe in evolution. It may not seem to matter, but I am curious. Maybe I should say for those non-creationists out there, how do you believe everything came into existence? Personally, I'd love to hear different beliefs that I've never heard of before.

 

[maha]

Again, we can never know for sure how, why, or what started the universe...unless someone or something can somehow show us or in some way demonstrate how it came about. But its likely that that won't happen...ever.

Having said that, I'll just go with what really smart scientists say happened--that is, the Big Bang theory. To dispute that or to suggest another possibilty, means that you are claiming to possess knowledge or experience which exceeds that of the highly informed scientific community. And if you do this, it is either out of hubris...or ignorance.

 

[MarinoMan]

It it is about 2 in the morning here and I'm kind of tired but i wanted to answer this before I went to bed. This is my personal theory on the "creation" of the universe. There are two scientific laws, the Law of Conservation of Mass and the Law of Conservation of Energy which state that neither energy or matter can ever be created or destroyed. Science has also proven that the universe can expand and contract (it is expanding now). This is where my personal theory kicks in. I believe that the universe was not created but is infinite. Don't go crazy on me because if god can be infinite why not energy and matter. I believe that the universe that was started so many billions of years ago is just another iteration of the known universe. I'm saying that in the past the universe expanded to its maximum then contracted again to the point of a tiny little ball (like a black hole) then, b/c all that matter and energy was crammed into one tiny space, it exploded (Big Bang Theory) created what we know today.

 

[Tenka]

I believe in evolution because I think science and God can coexist together, and that God essentially created science.

They don't and he didn't.

Science is a method of investigation, No scientific investigation will ever include God.

Humans invented science.

 

[MarinoMan]

They don't and he didn't.

Science is a method of investigation, No scientific investigation will ever include God.

Humans invented science.

The same can be said of god.

 

[Mistermystery]

Ok, before you think "great, another post from a creationist," let me tell you, I'm not a creationist. I lean towards being a theistic evoluntionist. I believe in evolution because I think science and God can coexist together, and that God essentially created science.

Good for you, but to get questions awnsered, you really do need to act like a crazy fundie around here. Seriously, people who suddenly start to act rational don't get enough attention.

So I believe God created the universe and used evolution in His process. But now for my question. I am very curious and always seeking for more understanding of other viewpoints. I wondered how you evolutionists believed the universe was started? For example, the big bang theory or my theory. Basically, what is your belief into how everything came into existence?

Your theory? I don't see why God couldn't have created the universe by using the big bang as His tool. If you see evolution as a tool of God, why not see the big bang as a tool as well?

I believe that all current evidence points towards that the big bang did happen. I can't be sure if there was a God involved or not, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was something of a supreme being. Let me quote from astro.edu:

The evidence for the Big Bang comes from many pieces of observational data that are consistent with the Big Bang. None of these prove the Big Bang, since scientific theories are not proven. Many of these facts are consistent with the Big Bang and some other cosmological models, but taken together these observations show that the Big Bang is the best current model for the Universe. These observations include:

• The darkness of the night sky - Olbers' paradox.
• The Hubble Law - the linear distance vs redshift law. The data are now very good.
• Homogeneity - fair data showing that our location in the Universe is not special.
• Isotropy - very strong data showing that the sky looks the same in all directions to 1 part in 100,000.
• Time dilation in supernova light curves.

The observations listed above are consistent with the Big Bang or with the Steady State model, but many observations support the Big Bang over the Steady State:

• Radio source and quasar counts vs. flux. These show that the Universe has evolved.
• Existence of the blackbody CMB. This shows that the Universe has evolved from a dense, isothermal state.
• Variation of TCMB with redshift. This is a direct observation of the evolution of the Universe.
• Deuterium, 3He, 4He, and 7Li abundances. These light isotopes are all well fit by predicted reactions occurring in the First Three Minutes.

Currently it's the best model. I also fully understand that there might be a future where an other model can take it's place, who knows? Current evidence however says this is it.

Does that awnser your question?

 

[Mystman]

Big Bang.

What caused it, and what came before it?

No idea. But they're working on it

 

[gluadys]

For example, the big bang theory or my theory. Basically, what is your belief into how everything came into existence?

I find it difficult to compare big bang theory with your theory when I don't know what your theory is. So what is your theory?

Do you think Big Bang theory is not consistent with creation? That it rules out God? Did you know that some of the initial resistance in the scientific community to Big Bang theory was due to the fact that it gave a beginning to the universe and so sounded like creation? For millennia, science had assumed the universe was infinite, that space-time was infinite.

I am convinced the Big Bang happened. I believe that God created all things. The Big Bang is how creation looks when we examine it scientifically.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

They don't

Actually they can co-exist because they are in completely different spheres and occupy opposite sides of the demarcation criterion. Science does not say God does not exist it is agnostic not atheist.

and he didn't.

We have no way of knowing this one way ort the other.

Science is a method of investigation, No scientific investigation will ever include God.

Correct, but your post generally seems to overlook the fact that science does not rule him out either. Science does not deal in metaphysics, period. You seem (and correct me if I have misread you) to have mistaken that to mean that science denies the existence of the metaphysical when in fact it does not, it denies the ability to investigate the metaphysical.

Ghost

 

[Tenka]

Actually they can co-exist because they are in completely different spheres and occupy opposite sides of the demarcation criterion. Science does not say God does not exist it is agnostic not atheist.

I wasn't saying that science is hostile to God, I was just saying they have nothing to do with each other and no way to coexist.
It's like saying E=Mc^2 and an the colour purple can be flatmates.

We have no way of knowing this one way ort the other.

That God created the scientific method?

Correct, but your post generally seems to overlook the fact that science does not rule him out either.

I didn't say it did either did I ?

Science does not deal in metaphysics, period. You seem (and correct me if I have misread you) to have mistaken that to mean that science denies the existence of the metaphysical when in fact it does not, it denies the ability to investigate the metaphysical.

Not at all, I just meant that science and (the metaphysical ) cannot be reconciled, and thus have nothing to offer one another.
As concepts shared in a mind they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[DJ_Ghost]

I am convinced the Big Bang happened. I believe that God created all things. The Big Bang is how creation looks when we examine it scientifically.

At the risk of sounding like this is a "Me Too" post... erm me too. Thats exactly what I was going to post.

Ghost

 

[DJ_Ghost]

I wasn't saying that science is hostile to God, I was just saying they have nothing to do with each other and no way to coexist.

You must be using coexist in a different way to me then, because to me the fact that we can except one and not have to reject the other means they do coexist. What exactly do you mean when you say they can’t coexist?

It's like saying E=Mc^2 and an the colour purple can be flatmates.

No its like saying that we do not have to deny the existance of the colour purple if we accept that E=Mc^2.

That God created the scientific method?

Sorry misread that bit, I though you were saying God didn’t create the universe - which we can’t know one way or another, when you were actually saying God didn’t create the scientific method, which is true.

I didn't say it did either did I ?

No but it looked like that's what you were saying. presumably because we use “coexist” differently.

Not at all, I just meant that science and (the metaphysical ) cannot be reconciled, and thus have nothing to offer one another.
As concepts shared in a mind they are not mutually exclusive.

Fair enough, I agree with that, and that's what I take to be the meaning when some one says God and Science can co-exist, again the confusion has arisen because you use co-exist differently than I do.

Ghost

 

[Jet Black]

Ok, before you think "great, another post from a creationist," let me tell you, I'm not a creationist. I lean towards being a theistic evoluntionist. I believe in evolution because I think science and God can coexist together, and that God essentially created science. So I believe God created the universe and used evolution in His process. But now for my question. I am very curious and always seeking for more understanding of other viewpoints. I wondered how you evolutionists believed the universe was started? For example, the big bang theory or my theory. Basically, what is your belief into how everything came into existence?

Given that evolutionists cover a really broad spectrum of people from pantheists through atheists and Christians, expect a variety of answers. Admittedly, I am Agnostic, and I feel the most honest answer is currently "we don't know" General Relativity, and the evidence of the expansion of the universe indicate that at some point around 13.7 billion years ago, the universe was all packed very close together. Extrapolating this backwards would get us to a singluarity, in which all of spacetime is infinitely curved. The problem with this is that Quantum Mechanics shows that the Laws of Physics break down at distances and times less than the Planck Length/Time, which is the regieme that the conclusions of relativity are present within. Quantum Mechanics, and Relativity are perhaps the two most verified theories within physics, but suffer the fundamental problem that they cannot yet be unified. Without final unification of these theories, perhaps in a more all encompassing theory for which these two theories are just approximations, we cannot really say anything about anything inside the spatial and temporal limits presented above. So my answer to your question is:

I don't know.

 

[Jet Black]

the problem with the BB naysayers, is that the universe is still banging. or expanding at any rate. all the naysayers really claim is that at some arbitrary point in the past, everything was started with a particular arrangement of velocity such that it merely looks like much longer ago than the forementioned arbitrary point, everything was in the same place.

 

[Tenka]

You must be using coexist in a different way to me then, because to me the fact that we can except one and not have to reject the other means they do coexist. What exactly do you mean when you say they can’t coexist?

I would consider humans and mice as coexisting, coral and crabs coexist but apples and communisim don't.
Though a communist can eat an apple ...err until the party stops him.
My objection is from the way that God and science can have nothing to do with one another, therefore do not coexist.

No its like saying that we do not have to deny the existance of the colour purple if we accept that E=Mc^2.

Yep that's true, but they aren't coexisting.
They are just not mutually exclusive.

No but it looked like that's what you were saying. presumably because we use “coexist” differently.

That'd be it then.
I'll just sit and wait for someone to tear me a new one over this. <twiddles thumbs>

 

[Jet Black]

coexist just means exist together (and so do not contradict)