Question for evolutionist

[Itinerant Lurker]

Why is it so important that christians abandon their faith and start believing in evolution in stead?

“Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. . .If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason?"

The Literal Meaning of Genesis, St. Augustine​

Lurker

 

[Itinerant Lurker]

Now even a pure non Bible believing evolutionist would look at this and conclude: The Bible says God made a man out of the dust of the ground and would also conclude that he was not alive until he at least had nostrils, so he could not have evolved because man became a living soul after God breathed in his nostrils.

Or you could, as a bible-believing Christian, look at this an conclude that this is more of an analogy which is putting the order of creation into concepts which its original audience could comprehend than a strictly literal historical narrative.

Pardon the digression, we can get back to explaining the theory you are disagreeing with to you now.





Lurker

 

[1611AV]

Or you could, as a bible-believing Christian, look at this an conclude that this is more of an analogy which is putting the order of creation into concepts which its original audience could comprehend than a strictly literal historical narrative.

Then that would mean Jesus had to evolve.

Pardon the digression, we can get back to explaining the theory you are disagreeing with to you now.

We can explain the Truth you are disagreeing with in another thread.

Seems the gremlins are lurking about tonight. Lets Talk evolution.

 

[Itinerant Lurker]

Then that would mean Jesus had to evolve.

And?




Lurker

 

[Phred]

Then that would mean Jesus had to evolve.

No. Evolution takes place between generations. No single member of a species ever evolves.

 

[Belk]

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Now even a pure non Bible believing evolutionist would look at this and conclude: The Bible says God made a man out of the dust of the ground and would also conclude that he was not alive until he at least had nostrils, so he could not have evolved because man became a living soul after God breathed in his nostrils.

Now if you do not believe that then you are not a Bible believer and I will have no further discussion with you on the matter.

I am here to discuss evolution!

My apologies to those of you who I was speaking with prior to this rude interruption.

Nice theatrics. Oh, and you don't have the authority to say who is or is not a bible believer. Just FYI.

 

[1611AV]

And?




Lurker

And, He did not.

Did you evolve? If so, from what?

 

[Itinerant Lurker]

And, He did not.

Did you evolve? If so, from what?

Evolution occurs on a population level, not an individual level. This error has already been explained to you. If you'd like to learn about evolution and/or science in general I can help you; if, on the other hand, you'd like to continue to be wrong on even the most basic of concepts despite repeatedly having your errors corrected that's your call.




Lurker

 

[1611AV]

Nice theatrics. Oh, and you don't have the authority to say who is or is not a bible believer. Just FYI.

Don't need the authority, it is a obvious observation. Are you here to discuss evolution?

 

[1611AV]

Evolution occurs on a population level, not an individual level. This error has already been explained to you. If you'd like to learn about evolution and/or science in general I can help you; if, on the other hand, you'd like to continue to be wrong on even the most basic of concepts despite repeatedly having your errors corrected that's your call.




Lurker

Umm, Im trying but you derailed at post 42.

 

[Belk]

Don't need the authority, it is a obvious observation. Are you here to discuss evolution?

Not according to all the Christians who have no issue with evolution.

Sure, lets discuss evolution. It is not against Christian principles as evidenced by the vast majority of Christians who see no problem between it and their faith.

 

[1611AV]

No. Evolution takes place between generations. No single member of a species ever evolves.

How does evolution deal with the mass extinctions that have been explained by many scientists? Ice ages, Mass flooding and that sort. It seems that they would really set things back if you look at a single cell evolving all the way to a complex creature as a Human. I mean you can only go back so far until you have a earth that was mostly volcanic. There does not seem to be enough time for it to happen.

How does ToE explain this?

 

[1611AV]

Not according to all the Christians who have no issue with evolution.

Sure, lets discuss evolution. It is not against Christian principles as evidenced by the vast majority of Christians who see no problem between it and their faith.

Are you a Christian that falls under that category? (One who believes in evolution) I ask so I can understand your position.

 

[Belk]

How does evolution deal with the mass extinctions that have been explained by many scientists? Ice ages, Mass flooding and that sort. It seems that they would really set things back if you look at a single cell evolving all the way to a complex creature as a Human. I mean you can only go back so far until you have a earth that was mostly volcanic. There does not seem to be enough time for it to happen.

How does ToE explain this?

How much time is required and why?

 

[Belk]

Are you a Christian that falls under that category? (One who believes in evolution) I ask so I can understand your position.

Nope. I'm an agnostic who finds the bible interesting but not convincing. Heck, as far as I am concerned I think you are right and a literal reading of the bible is not compatible with evolution. However there is a lot of Christians who disagree with both of us and I do not think it fair or honest to say that you only believe the bible if you read it in a certain way.

 

[1611AV]

Nope. I'm an agnostic who finds the bible interesting but not convincing. Heck, as far as I am concerned I think you are right and a literal reading of the bible is not compatible with evolution. However there is a lot of Christians who disagree with both of us and I do not think it fair or honest to say that you only believe the bible if you read it in a certain way.

Fair enough, I believe by faith and nothing else. I can not prove what I believe by faith.

But if the Bible says in the beginning (of creation) God created everything.... And goes on to say that God is eternal . Then I believe that God did not evolve. Not because I interpreted it that way but because the Bible says it that way. Any Christian who believes God evolved is obviously not reading the same Bible I am reading or that you may have read. Is that fair?

 

[Belk]

Fair enough, I believe by faith and nothing else. I can not prove what I believe by faith.

But if the Bible says in the beginning (of creation) God created everything.... And goes on to say that God is eternal . Then I believe that God did not evolve. Not because I interpreted it that way but because the Bible says it that way. Any Christian who believes God evolved is obviously not reading the same Bible I am reading or that you may have read. Is that fair?

You have to interpret the bible to read it. Otherwise you are just looking at a bunch of lines on a page that have no meaning for you.

If by "Evolve" you mean the normal biological process of evolution we have observed here on earth then I would agree.

 

[1611AV]

You have to interpret the bible to read it. Otherwise you are just looking at a bunch of lines on a page that have no meaning for you.

If by "Evolve" you mean the normal biological process of evolution we have observed here on earth then I would agree.

So for a Christian who accepts evolution, evolution is necessary by God to make a Human man. But not necessary for the existence of God.

So that means that Jesus would have had to wait for evolution to produce a Human man before he could come as a man, since he came thru a woman that evolved from a single cell over billions of years into a woman. Otherwise they would have to conclude that God can just make a man and thus destroy their belief in evolution.

Or they do not believe in the same theory of evolution that Darwin and co. explained. And therefore fall into a category of their own. Neither Bible believer or ToE believer.

 

[Itinerant Lurker]

There does not seem to be enough time for it to happen.

How does ToE explain this?

Curiously, scientists disagree. Upon what are you basing the "not enough time" argument?




Lurker

 

[Belk]

So for a Christian who accepts evolution, evolution is necessary by God to make a Human man. But not necessary for the existence of God.

I would not say necessary since God is all powerful. Lets say the evidence points to this being the way God did it.

So that means that Jesus would have had to wait for evolution to produce a Human man before he could come as a man, since he came thru a woman that evolved from a single cell over billions of years into a woman. Otherwise they would have to conclude that God can just make a man and thus destroy their belief in evolution.

You lost me at the end there. That they believe God could just make a man has no bearing on their belief in evolution. They believe God used evolution to create man because they believe in God and because of the overwhelming evidence for evolution.

Or they do not believe in the same theory of evolution that Darwin and co. explained. And therefore fall into a category of their own. Neither Bible believer or ToE believer.

Don't even have clue one where you came up with this since it does not seem to be supported or even referenced by the proceeding sentences but you are once again equating bible belief with rejection of evolution.