Nathan Poe
Well-Known Member
Not necessary -- just the way He chose to do it.
Nothing is "necessary" for a god -- He does what he wants how he wants for no other reason than He wants it done that way.
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So for a Christian who accepts evolution, evolution is necessary by God to make a Human man.
How does evolution deal with the mass extinctions that have been explained by many scientists?
Ice ages, Mass flooding and that sort.
It seems that they would really set things back if you look at a single cell evolving all the way to a complex creature as a Human.
I mean you can only go back so far until you have a earth that was mostly volcanic. There does not seem to be enough time for it to happen.
How does ToE explain this?
Mass extinction events wiped out 50-90% of all life. We can see the strange and seemingly alien taxa that were utterly wiped out. But not all life died out. The dinosaurs (mostly) went extinct, but small mammals were lucky enough to survive. They repopulated the Earth, quite spectacularly.How does evolution deal with the mass extinctions that have been explained by many scientists? Ice ages, Mass flooding and that sort. It seems that they would really set things back if you look at a single cell evolving all the way to a complex creature as a Human. I mean you can only go back so far until you have a earth that was mostly volcanic. There does not seem to be enough time for it to happen.
How does ToE explain this?
Mass extinction events wiped out 50-90% of all life. We can see the strange and seemingly alien taxa that were utterly wiped out. But not all life died out. The dinosaurs (mostly) went extinct, but small mammals were lucky enough to survive. They repopulated the Earth, quite spectacularly.
I don't really see anything about mass extinction events that would cause the theory of evolution much difficulty. Things die, and occasionally things die en masse.
How does evolution deal with the mass extinctions that have been explained by many scientists? Ice ages, Mass flooding and that sort. It seems that they would really set things back if you look at a single cell evolving all the way to a complex creature as a Human. I mean you can only go back so far until you have a earth that was mostly volcanic. There does not seem to be enough time for it to happen.
How does ToE explain this?
It is indeed. The theory describes how life can react to selection pressures, and also how it has previously reacted to selection pressures. What those selection pressures actually are, however, are effectively due to chance (meteors obey the laws of physics, but, for all intents and purposes, collisions are 'random' events).So, then we are here by chance. Because of what particular things died off. It gave opportunity for other life to emerge and continue to evolve. If say the dinosaurs survived and the mammals went extinct, we would have a much different world today, one that probably would not include humans. Is that a fair statement in regards to ToE.?
It is indeed. The theory describes how life can react to selection pressures, and also how it has previously reacted to selection pressures. What those selection pressures actually are, however, are effectively due to chance (meteors obey the laws of physics, but, for all intents and purposes, collisions are 'random' events).
The feeling's mutual; our calm exchange of ideas makes a refreshing change to the usual hollering in CFYou seem to be very soundly grounded to the "Laws" of ToE. Not wavering in your arguments as to what fits the theory or bringing in other religious beliefs that cause a circular, blending or self opinionated discussion. I respect that.
Be my guest. You might also be interested in my 'Ask a Physicist Anything' thread (4,500 posts and counting!).I would like to ask you more questions in the future.
The feeling's mutual; our calm exchange of ideas makes a refreshing change to the usual hollering in CF.
Be my guest. You might also be interested in my 'Ask a Physicist Anything' thread (4,500 posts and counting!).
So, then we are here by chance. Because of what particular things died off. It gave opportunity for other life to emerge and continue to evolve. If say the dinosaurs survived and the mammals went extinct, we would have a much different world today, one that probably would not include humans. Is that a fair statement in regards to ToE.?
You'll probably won't get a lot of Christians replying in P&LS, you might have better luck over at one of the Christians-Only sides of CF. Still, best of luckI will check it out. I have also created a new thread to direct those who want to discuss "the blend of God and Evolution" So I can keep focused on ToE without distraction.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7536879/
You'll probably won't get a lot of Christians replying in P&LS, you might have better luck over at one of the Christians-Only sides of CF. Still, best of luck
Thats OK, again the main reason I did it was to divert the "Christian/Evolutionist" from quoting and diluting my posts here.
According to ToE. a Human is at the pinnacle of the process thus far. As a human we are exposed to all of the elements and up until a few hundred thousand years ago, probably all had to weather the elements and hunt for food, probably migrate somewhat.
Why does modern man seem to be effected by so much disease, and animals seem to be so much more immune to them. I would think we would have, by now, evolved better immune systems. For instance I have 4 children, when one gets sick we all do most of the time, yet my dog never gets what we have. What is your opinion on this?
Thats OK, again the main reason I did it was to divert the "Christian/Evolutionist" from quoting and diluting my posts here.
According to ToE. a Human is at the pinnacle of the process thus far.
As a human we are exposed to all of the elements and up until a few hundred thousand years ago, probably all had to weather the elements and hunt for food, probably migrate somewhat.
Why does modern man seem to be effected by do much disease, and animals seem to be so much more immune to them. I would think we would have, by now, evolved better immune systems. For instance I have 4 children, when one gets sick we all do most of the time, yet my dog never gets what we have. What is your opinion on this?
Those are all complex questions. Let's take them one at a time.How does evolution deal with the mass extinctions that have been explained by many scientists? Ice ages, Mass flooding and that sort. It seems that they would really set things back if you look at a single cell evolving all the way to a complex creature as a Human. I mean you can only go back so far until you have a earth that was mostly volcanic. There does not seem to be enough time for it to happen.
How does ToE explain this?
Extinctions can be caused by many different things. For example the environment can change rendering a creature unfit to continue thriving. Ice ages are perfect examples of this. We've seen the entire globe covered with ice and most of the life upon it went extinct. When the ice eventually melted life started to evolve once again to fill all the ecological niches that were once again open. There really is no explanation required. It's sort of a "stuff happens" kind of thing that life adapts to or dies. When an asteroid impacts the earth as has happened occasionally there is no time to adapt. Conditions change instantly and individuals, who have no ability to adapt, die.How does evolution deal with the mass extinctions that have been explained by many scientists?
Please try to remember. There is no goal. Evolution has no end point. It's not like you're playing a game and had to go back three spaces from where you wanted to be. These "set backs" are indeed set backs for the organisms that died. But for those that lived it was like a job fair. Look at all the openings!It seems that they would really set things back if you look at a single cell evolving all the way to a complex creature as a Human.
That's one way to falsify the ToE. If there was not enough time. We can see through the fossil record that there was. About three billion years of starts and stops, weird side roads and all sorts of dead ends. And most of that three billion years of life was taken up with single-celled organisms squirming around.I mean you can only go back so far until you have a earth that was mostly volcanic. There does not seem to be enough time for it to happen.
In the first test of its kind, researchers exposed the hardy segmented creatures, called water bears, to the open and harsh vacuum of space, with all its deadly radiation, on a spacecraft in low-Earth orbit. Many of them survived.
Yep. It's worth pointing out that all animals are the pinnacle of the process thus far - a single bacterium is as evolved as we are. If we're going on biological complexity (e.g., a snail's simple eye is 'less evolved' than a hawk's complex eye), I personally consider squid to be the most complex and advanced group of species on the planet. Their bodies are giant pixel screens, they have multiple prehensile tenticals, their eyes do everything our eyes can do as well as seeing polarisation.Thats OK, again the main reason I did it was to divert the "Christian/Evolutionist" from quoting and diluting my posts here.
According to ToE. a Human is at the pinnacle of the process thus far. As a human we are exposed to all of the elements and up until a few hundred thousand years ago, probably all had to weather the elements and hunt for food, probably migrate somewhat.
A disease that can affect one human will usually be able to affect all humans - we are, by and large, the same. The camoflague that lets human viruses and bacteria hide in humans only works because it makes them resemble human proteins - in a dog, they suddenly stand out. It's like hiding in a desert while dressed as a tree.Why does modern man seem to be effected by so much disease, and animals seem to be so much more immune to them. I would think we would have, by now, evolved better immune systems. For instance I have 4 children, when one gets sick we all do most of the time, yet my dog never gets what we have. What is your opinion on this?
I would not say necessary since God is all powerful. Lets say the evidence points to this being the way God did it.
You lost me at the end there. That they believe God could just make a man has no bearing on their belief in evolution. They believe God used evolution to create man because they believe in God and because of the overwhelming evidence for evolution.
Don't even have clue one where you came up with this since it does not seem to be supported or even referenced by the proceeding sentences but you are once again equating bible belief with rejection of evolution.
Wrong.
Bacteria are the pinnacle of evolution. They rule this world, consume its resources, and will be here much longer than we will be. Cognition is merely one replicative strategy, and it isn't necessarily the best. Just because we can think and build technology doesn't make us automatically better than the rest of the life on this planet. This is a misconception of evolution - that there is a step ladder from "primitive" to "complex" that evolution tries to climb and we are somehow on the top. It's not like that at all. We are not the pinnacle of evolution, and in fact, our bodies are 90% bacteria if you count the cells.
And as far as human disease goes, I think we may have some bias. We notice human disease far more than animal disease. There are actually tons of animal diseases and viruses and bacteria that infect animals more preferentially than us. Ask a veterinarian if taking care of animals is easy, and they will say no.
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