Question for creationists

[aggo]

1) if we find life on other planets, what does this mean?

2) if water in the liquid form is found (not gasoline ponds - ie titan) does that mean anything?

these questions are in the context of your belief in god.

 

[Oncedeceived]

1) if we find life on other planets, what does this mean?

UHH, it means that there is life on other planets.

2) if water in the liquid form is found (not gasoline ponds - ie titan) does that mean anything?

No, why should it?

these questions are in the context of your belief in god.

These two questions have no bearing on my belief in God.

 

[Self Improvement]

UHH, it means that there is life on other planets.

No, why should it?


These two questions have no bearing on my belief in God.

It wouldn't shatter your world veiw that god made us his special creation? What does the bible say about other planets?

 

[WaZoO]

What does the bible say about other planets

That they are glowing dots on a some sort of dome shaped tarp, which acts as the barrier between earth and heaven. Rain is caused by God opening floodgates on this quasi-sky-tent. (Heaven is a giant ocean)

 

[Oncedeceived]

It wouldn't shatter your world veiw that god made us his special creation? What does the bible say about other planets?

It says that God created our universe and everything we find within.

 

[Oncedeceived]

That they are glowing dots on a some sort of dome shaped tarp, which acts as the barrier between earth and heaven. Rain is caused by God opening floodgates on this quasi-sky-tent. (Heaven is a giant ocean)

Chapter and verse Please.

 

[Self Improvement]

That they are glowing dots on a some sort of dome shaped tarp, which acts as the barrier between earth and heaven. Rain is caused by God opening floodgates on this quasi-sky-tent. (Heaven is a giant ocean)

Yeah, can you give the verse or verses?

I assume you're talking about Isaiah, is that correct?

 

[Self Improvement]

I guess we could add a twist to the question: What if there were an advanced civilization who had completely different religious views, or none at all, and said we are all wrong and said they were the ones who created life on Earth?

 

[Oncedeceived]

I guess we could add a twist to the question: What if there were an advanced civilization who had completely different religious views, or none at all, and said we are all wrong and said they were the ones who created life on Earth?

What difference could that possiblity make when right here on earth the same occurs?

 

[WaZoO]

Isaiah 45, Matthew 24, Genesis 7, not sure which verses.

 

[bshaw96]

1) if we find life on other planets, what does this mean?

2) if water in the liquid form is found (not gasoline ponds - ie titan) does that mean anything?

these questions are in the context of your belief in god.

Wouln't affect my beliefs in the least. I would just assume He made life on those planets as well. If this is other life out there, He created it. I see no reason to believe He wouldn't. As for the water, same answer. His creation isn't limited to this one planet only.

Neither of these would "shatter my belief in God". My belief in God is not based on scientific proof. If that were the case, Id constantly be questioning something. My belief in God is based on personal experiences with Him and no scientific "logic" can change those experiences.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Chapter and verse Please.

For the stars in the firmament, that is the fourth day of creation in the first account (Gen 1:14-19). The firmament itself is created on the second day (Gen 1:6-8) and there are apparantly windows in it, which are opened for example during the flood (Gen 7:11). For the waters above the heavens again see the second day and Ps 104:4.

There's more.

 

[WaZoO]

There are some stange things to consider with life on other planets, to which I'm sure the answer is "we don't know." Did Jesus die for them? Do they go to an afterlife? What if a human was born on an alien planet, would Earth's salvation rules apply or that planet's, assuming they were different.

 

[Oncedeceived]

Isaiah 45, Matthew 24, Genesis 7, not sure which verses.

Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

Isa 45:2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:
Isa 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.
Isa 45:4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.
Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that [there is] none beside me. I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else.
Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Isa 45:8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it.
Isa 45:9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! [Let] the potsherd [strive] with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
Isa 45:10 Woe unto him that saith unto [his] father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?
Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, [even] my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.
Isa 45:13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
Isa 45:14 Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia andof the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, [saying], Surely God [is] in thee; and [there is] none else, [there is] no God.
Isa 45:15 Verily thou [art] a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
Isa 45:16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together [that are] makers of idols.
Isa 45:17 [But] Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.
Isa 45:19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.
Isa 45:20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye [that are] escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god [that] cannot save.
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring [them] near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? [who] hath told it from that time? [have] not I the LORD? and [there is] no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; [there is] none beside me.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa 45:24 Surely, shall [one] say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: [even] to him shall [men] come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
Isa 45:25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Not here.

Matthew 24
Chapter 24
1
And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
temple Mark 13:1, Luke 21:5
2
And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
thrown 1st Kings 9:7, Jer 5:10, Jer 26:18, Micah 3:12, Luke 19:44
3
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
Tell 1st Thess 5:1
world
4
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
heed Matt 16:6, Luke 12:1, 2nd Peter 3:17
5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
deceive Jer 14:14, Jer 23:21, John 5:43
6
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
end
7
For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
For nation Isa 19:2, Mark 13:8, Luke 21:10
divers
8
All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9
Then shall thy deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
deliver Acts 4:3, Acts 7:59, 1st Peter 4:12, Rev 2:10
10
And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
offended Matt 11:6, Matt 13:57, Matt 26:31, Mark 6:3, Mark 14:27, John 6:61
11
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
false 2nd Cor 11:13
deceive 1st Tim 4:1
12
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
iniquity
love
13
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
But Matt 10:22, Mark 13:13, Luke 21:17
end
14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
all Rom 10:18, Col 1:6, Col 1:23
world
end
15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
the abomination Dan 9:27, Dan 12:11, Mark 13:14
understand Dan 9:23
16
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18
Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19
And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20
But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
shall be Joel 2:2, Dan 12:1, Mark 13:19,
22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
sake Isa 65:8, Zech 14:3
23
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
signs 2nd Thess 2:9, Rev 13:13
25
Behold, I have told you before.
26
Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28
For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
wheresoever Job 39:30
29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
shall Isa 13:10, Mark 13:25, Luke 21:26
sun Joel 2:10, Acts 2:20, Rev 6:12
30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
then shall Zech 12:12
the Son of man Dan 7:13, Mark 13:26, Luke 21:27
31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
angels Matt 13:41
sound Matt 25:6, 1st Thess 4:16
they Deut 30:4
gather Matt 3:12, Matt 13:30, 2nd Thess 2:1
32
Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
learn Luke 21:29
33
So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
pass Psa 102:26, Isa 51:6, Jer 31:36, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33, Heb 1:11
36
But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
day Zech 14:7, Acts 1:7, 1st Thess 5:2, 2nd Pet 3:10
37
But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
marrying Gen 6:2, Luke 17:27, Jude 6
39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
all Gen 6:13, Gen 6:17, Gen 7:21, Luke 17:27, 2nd Pet 3:6
40
Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Watch Matt 25:13, Mark 13:33, Luke 21:36, 1st Cor 16:13
43
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
watched 1st Thess 5:6, Rev 3:3, Rev 16:15
44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45
Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
faithful 1st Cor 4:2, Heb 3:5
46
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47
Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
ruler Matt 25:21, Luke 12:44, Luke 22:29
48
But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49
And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
appoint Matt 8:12, Matt 22:13, Matt 25:30, Luke 13:28, 2nd Pet 2:17, Jude 13

Not here.

Genesis 7

7:1
And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
7:2
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
7:3
Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
7:4
For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
7:5
And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
7:6
And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7:7
And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
7:8
Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
7:9
There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
7:10
And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
7:11
In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
7:12
And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
7:13
In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
7:14
They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
7:16
And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
7:17
And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
7:18
And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
7:19
And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
7:20
Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
7:21
And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
7:22
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
7:23
And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
7:24
And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.

Do you think this means windows in the way we have windows in our house?

No dome, no great tent.

 

[Oncedeceived]

For the stars in the firmament, that is the fourth day of creation in the first account (Gen 1:14-19). The firmament itself is created on the second day (Gen 1:6-8) and there are apparantly windows in it, which are opened for example during the flood (Gen 7:11). For the waters above the heavens again see the second day and Ps 104:4.

There's more.

Firmament in Hebrew means expanse.

I cited the chapter/verse of the windows.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Firmament in Hebrew means expanse.

A beaten, stamped out ('raqiya' comes from the verb 'raqa') "expanse" that is capable of supporting the waters that are above it and in which the stars (to fall onto the earth some time soon) are placed, yes.

 

[Oncedeceived]

A beaten, stamped out ('raqiya' comes from the verb 'raqa') "expanse" that is capable of supporting the waters that are above it and in which the stars (to fall onto the earth some time soon) are placed, yes.

Beaten, stamped out?

Define waters.

 

[Lord Emsworth]

Beaten, stamped out?

The verb "raqa" is used in Ex 39:3 and in Jer 10:9 in context with gold and silver respectively. Derived from "raqa" is "raqiya" (firmament).

Also consider Job 37:8 where Job is asked the rhetorical question of whether he can "like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?"

Note, "spread out" in this verse is "raqa" also.

Define waters.

Well, water. Supposedly the waters above are the same stuff as the waters below, which are commanded in Gen 1:9 to gather in specific places. I don't know if the term "the deep" would be of any help.

 

[william jay schroeder]

I really dont get your point, except to have a nother shot at bashing christian thinking. It hasnt been done so what is the point of bothering to try an explain what we would think. USELESS THREAD IN THE HIGHEST DEGREE.

 

[Oncedeceived]

The verb "raqa" is used in Ex 39:3 and in Jer 10:9 in context with gold and silver respectively. Derived from "raqa" is "raqiya" (firmament).

Ex. 39;3 And they did beat the gold into thin plates, and cut [it into] wires, to work [it] in the blue, and in the purple, and in the scarlet, and in the fine linen, [with] cunning work.

Jer 10:9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple [is] their clothing: they [are] all the work of cunning [men].

These two references are talking about very fine flexible fibers that can be sewn into cloth. Not representive of the hard dome like structure that was being discussed.


Also consider Job 37:8 where Job is asked the rhetorical question of whether he can "like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?"

Actually it is Job 37:18 and it says: Hast thou with him spread out the sky, [which is] strong, [and] as a molten looking glass?

How would you define molten looking glass?

A past participle of melt.


adj.

1. Made liquid by heat; melted: molten lead.
2. Made by melting and casting in a mold.
3. Brilliantly glowing, from or as if from intense heat: “A huge red bed of coals blazed and quivered with molten fury” (Richard Wright).

So the looking glass if taken totally defined as stated would mean of melted or liquified material that was clear enough to see as if looking into a mirror(glass).









Well, water. Supposedly the waters above are the same stuff as the waters below, which are commanded in Gen 1:9 to gather in specific places. I don't know if the term "the deep" would be of any help.

[/QUOTE]