Question for Christians

[seashale76]

Do you believe God's love is unconditional?

If so, how do you understand that idea?

The idea of unconditional is that it is lacking conditions. So God loves you. Period. There can be no "if, then" statements following that.

But I feel like, according to Christian theology, there is a blatant "if, then" statement which says, "If you don't accept Jesus Christ, then you will be sent into Hell". And, while this "if,then" statement is not directly linked to God's love, it seems awfully hard to reconcile God's "unconditional" love with regard to this basic Christian tenet.

Is the idea of God's unconditional love a false attribute of God which isn't supported Biblically? What are the implications of God having a conditional love?

God is Love and His presence is like fire. How one endures this fire has everything to do with how they were tempered in this life, just like the three righteous youths in the fiery furnace were able to joyfully walk around unharmed in the fire, yet others perished just being near the fire. The fire didn't change. The light of Christ illumines all (even when they hate God and didn't prepare themselves in this life for that reality).

Here is a quote from an old Wikipedia article on the topic (that doesn’t seem to be around anymore) that I thought explained it pretty well: "For many ancient Christians, Hell was the same "place" as Heaven: living in the presence of God and directly experiencing God's love. Whether this was experienced as pleasure or torment depended on one's disposition towards God. St. Isaac of Syria wrote in Mystic Treatises: "... those who find themselves in Hell will be chastised by the scourge of love. How cruel and bitter this torment of love will be! For those who understand that they have sinned against love, undergo greater suffering than those produced by the most fearful tortures. The sorrow which takes hold of the heart, which has sinned against love, is more piercing than any other pain. It is not right to say that the sinners in Hell are deprived of the love of God ... But love acts in two ways, as suffering of the reproved, and as joy in the blessed!" This ancient view is still the doctrine of the Eastern Orthodox Church."

 

[E.C.]

Do you believe God's love is unconditional?

If so, how do you understand that idea?

The idea of unconditional is that it is lacking conditions. So God loves you. Period. There can be no "if, then" statements following that.

But I feel like, according to Christian theology, there is a blatant "if, then" statement which says, "If you don't accept Jesus Christ, then you will be sent into Hell". And, while this "if,then" statement is not directly linked to God's love, it seems awfully hard to reconcile God's "unconditional" love with regard to this basic Christian tenet.

Is the idea of God's unconditional love a false attribute of God which isn't supported Biblically? What are the implications of God having a conditional love?

God's love is unconditional, but where things go wrong is the idea that merely not believing means going to Hell. This is wrong because the salvation of man's soul before it is based on belief, works or anything else depends entirely upon God's grace. God alone knows the circumstances of our lives and thus knows how much grace to allow for people.

If a Communist rejects Christ and entices others to do so than he would most likely go to Hell unless he repented. If somebody lives on an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean and has never heard the Gospel than that is completely different. How can you punish somebody for something they did not know? If we travel to another country and break a law, but didn't know the law and explained to the cop "I'm from another country and I did not know this was a law" than the cop is more likely to let you go with a warning a most than a fine (unless it was some heinous thing like murder).

Christians do not have the job of judging who goes where. That is God's job. He is the judge and He alone is the judge. He knows how much grace to give somebody, we do not. Any Christian who says "you automatically are going to Hell because you do not believe in Christ" is committing a greater sin than the unbeliever, and that Christian is also not a good Christian.

 

[Emmy]

Dear leftrightleftrightleft. You had quite a few replies, and I am surprised that our God, who is LOVE, is thought by some of us as insisting on conditions. How can Love have conditions? that would make Love impure and would NOT be LOVE. The Bible has been written by God-inspired men and women, and could easily have been translated slightly questionable. Instead of God did not approve of Esau`s deeds, it became: God hated Esau. God does NOT hate, God disapproves and abhors. And as for throwing into Hell, we had quite a few good explanations. God is Love, and we are on Earth to learn to love as God wants us to love. God with all our beings, and our neighbour, ( all others, friends or not friends) as ourselves. I say this humbly and with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[bling]

Maybe we're loading the term "unconditional" differently. When people use this term it seems to me that it is made synonymous with "all-embracing" or "all-accepting." I don't agree with this use of the term "unconditional" in regards to God's love. It implies that God doesn't care how you behave before or after you're saved; He'll accept you no matter what you do. But if this were true, Christ wouldn't have had to die on the cross.

I’ve got a feeling you have known some parents that “Love” their children “unconditionally”. The kid did not have to “do” anything for his/her parent to Love them and they will never be “disowned” by the parents. The child could disown his/her parents and the child could avoid “accepting” the parent’s Love, but the parents will always Love the child. Do these parents care about their children?

How does unconditional Love made at a huge sacrifice on God’s part show He does not care?

The half dead Jew on the side of the road might have said that very day (like many Jewish men) “I would rather die than have a Samaritan even tough me.” Did the good Samaritan show unconditional Love? Did the Good Samaritan care what the man would say once he revived and if he knew would it have made a difference?

God Loves you before after and during your salvation and is always concerned about how you behave, but God is always doing His part toward you perfectly, but that does not mean we act right because we are saved and if we do not act right God quits Loving us.

You mention Christ's unconditional love coming through in all his words and actions but I wonder how you see this in Christ's words to the Pharisees. He called them vipers (Matt. 23:33), whitewashed tombs (Matt. 23:37), hypocrites (Matt. 15:7), and even children of hell (Matt. 23:15). And what about the moneychangers Christ whipped out of the synagogue? How does this work with your idea that Christ's love was unconditional?

Remember the objective is to get them to accept God/Christ’s Love in the form of accepting God’s forgiveness so they will Love much “…he that is forgiven much Loves much…”

You are confusing discipline and seem to suggest it is not “loving”?

One of the ways we know we are children is because our father sees to our discipline/punishment for our transgressions.

Did Jesus stop “Loving” Peter when He called Peter satan?

The whip was most likely used to drive out the animals and not on the people (although they needed this kind of discipline [punishment]).

“Hell” is another topic and would take away from this discussion. Hell has purpose.

I think I understand where you're coming from with the story of the Prodigal Son. The thing is, it doesn't stand alone; there are many other verses in Scripture that qualify and confine how we may interpret and define what the parable means. I agree with you that the father in the parable demonstrated exceptional grace and love toward his wayward son but the story doesn't tell us how the father would have responded if the son had returned prideful, and defiant, and demanding more from his father. If the father is a picture of God, then we know from other biblical passages and verses that the son would have been dealt with very differently. The father would not have unconditionally accepted his son were he still pridefully seeking his own will and way. Insofar as this is true, it seems to me, then, that there are conditions upon God's love - or at least our full experience of it.

Yeah, I understand what you're saying here. I wonder though: isn't accepting a gift an action? Isn't it something you do? I mean, if the beggar doesn't reach out and actually take the coppers offered to him, he won't receive them, will he?

This could get into a lengthy discourse on what “work”, “doing” and “not doing work”. What we are looking for is not how science today defines “work”, but how the first century Jews would have understood it. Reaching out and picking up the money would not be considered an act that justifies you earning the money in any way. Yes there is a ”part” the beggar plays, but he has to play one of two parts accept or reject and with the party invitation or the prodigal son the rejection is harder in some ways than accepting.

I offered the verses from Paul in Galatians and Romans in explanation of the notion that salvation wasn't merely the accepting of a gift but an exchange of life. I think anyone who is not aware that salvation entails this exchange cannot truly be saved, for it is at the heart of what it means to be saved. Salvation isn't just getting something; it also involves giving up something. That "something" that we give up is, as the apostle Paul explains in the verses I offered, our entire self.

Sure. I agree with you. However, having a pricked conscience won't save you, will it? As the verses I cited show, one has to admit that sin is sin and that one has offended God as part of the process of salvation through which one enters into God's love.

Anywhoo...I don't want to diminish God's love, Bling, in sharing the things I have. You are right to proclaim loudly the wonderful immensity of His love. I think, though, that we both should stand on a middle ground between God's love and His just wrath, encouraging the guilty as well as warning them, extolling God's love for all the world and fearing His terrible judgment of it.

The “judgment” can be a motivator for the non Christian, but they first have to believe there is a heaven and hell, and a God to that will judge them.