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When Jesus wanted to explain what was about to happen he didn't give a theoretical model at all - he gave them a meal.
Again with the death threats. That's not very nice you know. This is why nobody listens to christians.
Listen, if you think it's "justice" to send anyone to hell, let alone a good person who earnestly is seeking after the truth and God, then I don't think your god is worthy of worship but is a jerk.
There's nothing loving in anything you said. It's so ironic that you quote "love" but only offer hate instead.Talk about hypocrisy of the highest order!!
The bible was written, edited, changed and altered many times through history and we know this because there are no originals to read. Some of the stories have been disproven by scholars, scientists and archeologists. For instance Moses could not have written anything since he lived before the hebrew alphabet existed!! But you won't hear that in any church!
There could be a hell. I don't think it's fire and brimstone though. Probably a state of darkness, loneliness or whatever. I don't think a "God of love" would send anybody there, despite what your religion says. I think God loves everyone, regardless of their religious beliefs.
Wait a minute! There is actually nothing just at all about a judge killing an innocent man in place of a guilty one! If any judge of the bench did that, everyone, including you christians, would have a moral outcry! Any judge who willfully lets a convicted rapist go while sentencing an innocent non-rapist to prison or death is not fit to be a representative of justice! I don't think you honestly know what justice is, to be saying things so absurd!
Scapegoating is a horrible thing and it is an unwillingness to even take responsibility for our own actions. Every time you blame someone else for your flaws, you are scapegoating. Throwing Jesus away like some rag is morally bankrupt and totally irresponsible too!!
A graven image:
To make a God that suits oneself. Is your God the One revealed in Holy Scripture? If not, then you have made your own God to suit yourself.
Source: Are you good enough to go to Heaven? The Ten Commandments and you. ⢠ChristianAnswers.Net
Rebelling:
Departing for him, is one of the things.
Source: Bible Topics: Rebellion against God
But it's in Jesus that see God most clearly.
If you want to know what God is like, then look at him. Not the way he is portrayed by any one group of Christians, or even me.
You do realise that there is more than one model out there for understanding Jesus death.
When Jesus wanted to explain what was about to happen he didn't give a theoretical model at all - he gave them a meal.
You're right. And this is why concepts like vicarious redemption and penal substitution have their limits, and their opponents.
How about Jesus as burden bearer?
How about Christus Victor?
How 'bout Savior?
You can look up terms, but it's the simplicity of the Gospel that has the Power.
Surely you don't think He was "thrown away?"
"And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead" (Romans 1:4)
I have no reason to believe the god you identify in the bible is real. The bible is not evidence of anything by itself.
I think you have (christians) created a god after your own image and devices, which explains why god in the bible gets angry all the time, demands blood, gets frustrated, does not know everything, can be defeated by iron chariots and often changes his mind.
A transcendental, omniscient, omnipotent God would not do those things. How can you prove your god is real to me?
I'm listening.
Indeed. Do your scholarly work and make the best judgement you can. I would recommend NT Wright's "Christian Origins and the Question of God" series, but read the other perspectives as well.ShiningBecky said:And how do we know what Jesus was like?
Do we use the gospels of Thomas or Mary Magdalene, or just the ones the church voted on in their canon? Is it the Jesus of the Calvinists, the Jesus of the Catholic church or the Jesus of the gnostic church? What about the "Christ consciousness" that people talk about?
There seem to be a lot of Jesuses around.
I think everyone here is glad you're asking these questions, but you should recognize that rather than asking questions, you're making assertions.
"Most Christians" have no bearing on my Faith, as you have already noticed. We have nothing to fear from any of these questions, and many before us have plumbed their depths. This Ray is on solid Rock. To follow that analogy, you're irritated by some sand in there somewhere uncomfortable.
We can point you to where the shovel is ...
What do you know of hell, as taught by Jews of Jesus' day? Because He never specified anything different about it. This tells me they had that much right. And it is not Dante's inferno!
I think you can read the gospels and see Jesus who said God is Good and said the will of God is summed up in loving God and your neigbor.And how do we know what Jesus was like?
Do we use the gospels of Thomas or Mary Magdalene, or just the ones the church voted on in their canon? Is it the Jesus of the Calvinists, the Jesus of the Catholic church or the Jesus of the gnostic church? What about the "Christ consciousness" that people talk about?
There seem to be a lot of Jesuses around.
I have no reason to believe the god you identify in the bible is real. The bible is not evidence of anything by itself.
I think you have (christians) created a god after your own image and devices, which explains why god in the bible gets angry all the time, demands blood, gets frustrated, does not know everything, can be defeated by iron chariots and often changes his mind.
A transcendental, omniscient, omnipotent God would not do those things. How can you prove your god is real to me?
I'm listening.
I agree God will not torture people. I don't believe God ever kills anyone or hurts them in this life or the next.The Jews of 1st century C.E. believed hell was a purgatory or purification of the soul for a time. It did involve flames and torment, but it was not forever.
This is in line with what people who have had near death experiences describe. Most do not say hell is eternal, despite christian doctrine. And hell exists for the reformation of the soul, not its eternal torture. If God is really all-loving as most believe, he would never throw away a spirit made after his own image for all eternity.
The crux of the matter is though, the christian god is not all-loving, but all-vengeful instead. (Eternal torment pretty much proves this.)
The reality of spiritual things, including God cannot be proven. I agree, much of the Bible is incorrect and incompatible with a loving Creator.
Christanity is fundamentally something that happened.ShiningBecky said:It's too bad he didn't write anything. We could have had all this stuff sorted out a long time ago!! You'd think he might've known all the chaos his death would have caused with all the confusion over understanding it and all.
The proof is in the bible. Paul said that there were 7 continents. Zechariah prophesied nuclear bombs in detail. Just one of the many things.
You are deceived by Satan, and are in delusion, I'm praying for you to see the light.
I think you can read the gospels and see Jesus who said God is Good and said the will of God is summed up in loving God and your neigbor.
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