I find it amusing when atheists ask about the "problem of evil" because it reminds me an awful lot of a cigarette smoker coming up to a non-smoker and asking "Why do I smoke?" and the non smoker is like uh... don't.
Let me get right to the point. Most of the terrible evil in this life is caused by the actions of godless hedonists.
Even if you can point to a few horrible cases of priests molesting children for years, they were not behaving Christlike. Let me put it another way-- no one has ever sinned and been Christ-like at the same time. You could almost say they were behaving more like godless heathens when molesting children. And we also know that not everyone calling themselves a Christian is an actual Christian.
The BTK Killer was actually a deacon at a church--imagine that! (I would like to have a talk with the pastor some day, whatever church it was--but I know that will never happen). He should be held accountable and the public should get to know whether he is still an active Pastor somewhere.
So let me be as blunt as possible to all atheists who care to tackle this one.. because.. you're asking me.. when I'm asking YOU.
If you were walking back to your car from Taco Bell at 2am with a bag of food and 5 bucks in your wallet, and someone walks up and stabs you for your food and $5, was it more likely a born-again Christian that just murdered you, or one of your godless hedonistic brethren? Be honest now.
Let me show you something that Jefferey Dahmer said, and you tell me how his idea of morality is any different than yours.. tell me what words of his you would change (if any)
"If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what's the point of trying to modify your behaviour to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing ..."
(source: Wikipedia)
Now let me answer your unasked question: There are no born-again serial rapists or killers. How can I tell this is a fact? Because Christ changes people from the inside out--and while we still sin--take me for example.. I may sin and tell my wife to "shut up" or something dumb like that-- but I am no longer breaking in houses, stealing guns to take down and hand to potential murderers in exchange for crack cocaine. Can we all agree that while we never stop sinning, our sins change drastically once we are truly born again? The prostitute who is born-again, may still let a cuss word fly every now and again but she is not out standing on the street corner anymore--not if she is truly born again.
The test: If she is still selling her body, then she didn't truly get saved.
This is not an example of the "no true scotsman" fallacy--if you think it is then you don't know what that fallacy means.
Here, let me show you (from Wikipedia)
"Philosophy professor Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted generalization attempt. The following is a simplified rendition of the fallacy:
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "Ah yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.""
===
I bolded the important part--because defining what a Christian is, is not an "ad hoc rescue" we have tons of Scripture that defines what a true Christian is. We have the beatitudes, we have the Commandments, and we have Jesus' two commandments in which all the law and the prophets are upheld. Love God with all your heart all your soul and all your mind--and the second one is like the first-- love your neighbor as yourself. So if you murder a child, you are breaking both of these commandments. (Mark 12:30-31 "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”)
So when the atheist asks about the problem of evil, he is really asking us why we all don't just serve God like we are supposed to. Then would there be evil? Sure, some.. but not to the degree that we see on the news.
And the next unasked question: "I thought there were no degrees to sin-- I thought in the eyes of God, sin is sin is sin."
This is true, but also needs some light shed on it. While God does not put degrees to sin (sin being defined from an archery term which merely means "to miss the mark" ) then to miss the mark is to miss the mark. BUT
I think you will all agree with me that even though Jesus said "If you have lusted in your heart for your neighbor's wife, then you have already sinned." that this certainly does not mean that you should go ahead and have an affair since you already sinned.
The difference here being the consequences of acting out sin in real life is far greater than sinning in one's heart.
Can we all agree that me fantasizing about killing my boss is sin, but actually killing my boss is a greater sin because the consequences of my sin are much greater? There is his wife, who is now a widow, there are his children who loved him, I will spend the rest of my life in prison-- there are the first responders who put their lives on the line to come to secure the scene. There could be collateral damage (shot went through him and also wounded or killed his secretary). etc..etc.. ad infinitum.
The bottom line, to go along with my other post I made to Rinitau (found here: Christians: how do you reconcile the problem of evil?)
Is that if everyone would simply follow God and His ways, then we would all share, we would all love one another. We would never stab another person for their burritos, we would have way less poverty and disease--we would not have war, or famines (or at least they would be greatly decreased).
The problem of evil is not a problem of evil, it is a matter of these two ideas co-existing: Evil + Free Will. You simply cannot look at the "problem of evil" in a vacuum. If there were no free will, there would be no evil.
Use your free will to stop being part of the problem and become part of the love-solution.
Lastly, if you say "Even if we all held hands and sang kumbaya, we would still have trees occasionally falling on houses and killing sleeping infants in their cribs" This is a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. Now disease has entered the world--now the Earth is working against us, the devil will be at enmity with our seed, but he will bruise our heel and we will bruise his head (sounds worse for him) now Eve has pain in child-birth and has a lust to have her husband's authority.
You ate the apple and so did I. The sooner we come to grips with this, the better. The sooner we stop saying "But why am I punished for Adam's sin?" the better, because if it were you or I, we would have also sinned eventually. Maybe we would have taken longer, or maybe shorter-- but there is a saying.. maybe you've heard it but never quite understood what it meant: "Laws were made to be broken" (Usually people say this while laughing and shoplifting) but what it means is that The Commandments were given to show that we could not keep them, no matter how hard we tried--God was showing us that we need Him--and His saving grace. Atonement for our sins.
And He has provided for us that bridge to the Father through His torturous death.
Once you accept Christ--the problem of evil disappears (for you). Will you still stub your toe in the garage--sure--but remember what I said--all this life is, is a means to an end. WE ALL DIE.
If you have the spirit of God in you when you die, then you go to be with Him for all eternity, no more tears, no more pain. No memory of it. But if you die because one of your heathen brethren stabs you tomorrow night for your burrito supreme, then you die like the beasts of the field, no different than a buffalo who dies in an unusually brutal Kansas winter--does this offend you? I recommend you take God's olive branch as soon as possible.
There is no problem of evil-- there is a "problem" of free will--and people using it to spit in God's face.
In conclusion, there is no "problem of evil" there is a "blessing of free will" (but people misuse it).
What are your questions at this time?
Let me get right to the point. Most of the terrible evil in this life is caused by the actions of godless hedonists.
Even if you can point to a few horrible cases of priests molesting children for years, they were not behaving Christlike. Let me put it another way-- no one has ever sinned and been Christ-like at the same time. You could almost say they were behaving more like godless heathens when molesting children. And we also know that not everyone calling themselves a Christian is an actual Christian.
The BTK Killer was actually a deacon at a church--imagine that! (I would like to have a talk with the pastor some day, whatever church it was--but I know that will never happen). He should be held accountable and the public should get to know whether he is still an active Pastor somewhere.
So let me be as blunt as possible to all atheists who care to tackle this one.. because.. you're asking me.. when I'm asking YOU.
If you were walking back to your car from Taco Bell at 2am with a bag of food and 5 bucks in your wallet, and someone walks up and stabs you for your food and $5, was it more likely a born-again Christian that just murdered you, or one of your godless hedonistic brethren? Be honest now.
Let me show you something that Jefferey Dahmer said, and you tell me how his idea of morality is any different than yours.. tell me what words of his you would change (if any)
"If a person doesn’t think there is a God to be accountable to, then—then what's the point of trying to modify your behaviour to keep it within acceptable ranges? That's how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we, when we died, you know, that was it, there is nothing ..."
(source: Wikipedia)
Now let me answer your unasked question: There are no born-again serial rapists or killers. How can I tell this is a fact? Because Christ changes people from the inside out--and while we still sin--take me for example.. I may sin and tell my wife to "shut up" or something dumb like that-- but I am no longer breaking in houses, stealing guns to take down and hand to potential murderers in exchange for crack cocaine. Can we all agree that while we never stop sinning, our sins change drastically once we are truly born again? The prostitute who is born-again, may still let a cuss word fly every now and again but she is not out standing on the street corner anymore--not if she is truly born again.
The test: If she is still selling her body, then she didn't truly get saved.
This is not an example of the "no true scotsman" fallacy--if you think it is then you don't know what that fallacy means.
Here, let me show you (from Wikipedia)
"Philosophy professor Bradley Dowden explains the fallacy as an "ad hoc rescue" of a refuted generalization attempt. The following is a simplified rendition of the fallacy:
Person A: "No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge."
Person B: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman and he puts sugar on his porridge."
Person A: "Ah yes, but no true Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.""
===
I bolded the important part--because defining what a Christian is, is not an "ad hoc rescue" we have tons of Scripture that defines what a true Christian is. We have the beatitudes, we have the Commandments, and we have Jesus' two commandments in which all the law and the prophets are upheld. Love God with all your heart all your soul and all your mind--and the second one is like the first-- love your neighbor as yourself. So if you murder a child, you are breaking both of these commandments. (Mark 12:30-31 "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”)
So when the atheist asks about the problem of evil, he is really asking us why we all don't just serve God like we are supposed to. Then would there be evil? Sure, some.. but not to the degree that we see on the news.
And the next unasked question: "I thought there were no degrees to sin-- I thought in the eyes of God, sin is sin is sin."
This is true, but also needs some light shed on it. While God does not put degrees to sin (sin being defined from an archery term which merely means "to miss the mark" ) then to miss the mark is to miss the mark. BUT
I think you will all agree with me that even though Jesus said "If you have lusted in your heart for your neighbor's wife, then you have already sinned." that this certainly does not mean that you should go ahead and have an affair since you already sinned.
The difference here being the consequences of acting out sin in real life is far greater than sinning in one's heart.
Can we all agree that me fantasizing about killing my boss is sin, but actually killing my boss is a greater sin because the consequences of my sin are much greater? There is his wife, who is now a widow, there are his children who loved him, I will spend the rest of my life in prison-- there are the first responders who put their lives on the line to come to secure the scene. There could be collateral damage (shot went through him and also wounded or killed his secretary). etc..etc.. ad infinitum.
The bottom line, to go along with my other post I made to Rinitau (found here: Christians: how do you reconcile the problem of evil?)
Is that if everyone would simply follow God and His ways, then we would all share, we would all love one another. We would never stab another person for their burritos, we would have way less poverty and disease--we would not have war, or famines (or at least they would be greatly decreased).
The problem of evil is not a problem of evil, it is a matter of these two ideas co-existing: Evil + Free Will. You simply cannot look at the "problem of evil" in a vacuum. If there were no free will, there would be no evil.
Use your free will to stop being part of the problem and become part of the love-solution.
Lastly, if you say "Even if we all held hands and sang kumbaya, we would still have trees occasionally falling on houses and killing sleeping infants in their cribs" This is a result of the fall of Adam and Eve. Now disease has entered the world--now the Earth is working against us, the devil will be at enmity with our seed, but he will bruise our heel and we will bruise his head (sounds worse for him) now Eve has pain in child-birth and has a lust to have her husband's authority.
You ate the apple and so did I. The sooner we come to grips with this, the better. The sooner we stop saying "But why am I punished for Adam's sin?" the better, because if it were you or I, we would have also sinned eventually. Maybe we would have taken longer, or maybe shorter-- but there is a saying.. maybe you've heard it but never quite understood what it meant: "Laws were made to be broken" (Usually people say this while laughing and shoplifting) but what it means is that The Commandments were given to show that we could not keep them, no matter how hard we tried--God was showing us that we need Him--and His saving grace. Atonement for our sins.
And He has provided for us that bridge to the Father through His torturous death.
Once you accept Christ--the problem of evil disappears (for you). Will you still stub your toe in the garage--sure--but remember what I said--all this life is, is a means to an end. WE ALL DIE.
If you have the spirit of God in you when you die, then you go to be with Him for all eternity, no more tears, no more pain. No memory of it. But if you die because one of your heathen brethren stabs you tomorrow night for your burrito supreme, then you die like the beasts of the field, no different than a buffalo who dies in an unusually brutal Kansas winter--does this offend you? I recommend you take God's olive branch as soon as possible.
There is no problem of evil-- there is a "problem" of free will--and people using it to spit in God's face.
In conclusion, there is no "problem of evil" there is a "blessing of free will" (but people misuse it).
What are your questions at this time?
