Question For All Electricians/Electronic Technicians

[Michael0701]

In an attempt to divert this forum from the war doom and gloom.......

 

In tomorrows paper is a rather lengthy article about GM going forward with their efforts to produce a vehicle with "fuel cell" technology.  While I think it is wonderful that alternative fuel technologies are being developed, I was concerned about a side note.  The vehicles are being developed with "drive by wire" technology as well.  Where steering, acceleration and braking will be done through electronics.

My question is, how do you feel about "drive by wire"? 

We are in the business of fixing electrical/electronic problems, so I may be overly concerned, but I do know "how" they fail.  I just can't see how I would have peace of mind taking a curve on a highway at 75mph, knowing that a computer is in control.

Just wondering if I am the only one

 

[Morat]

If I understand correctly, the drive by wire systems use three paths (triple redundancy) and if it loses two paths, it won't restart the car. (Not to mention stuff goes wild on the dash).

If anything, drive by wire should be safer, as it's got far more room for sensors and checking mechanisms in all the critical control paths.

 

[Smilin]

Today at 03:44 PM Michael0701 said this in Post #1 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=692821#post692821)


My question is, how do you feel about "drive by wire"? 

We are in the business of fixing electrical/electronic problems, so I may be overly concerned, but I do know "how" they fail.  I just can't see how I would have peace of mind taking a curve on a highway at 75mph, knowing that a computer is in control.

Just wondering if I am the only one

The military has been using the same technology in their aircraft now for quite some time (fly-by-wire). However, without the technology, some aircraft are so unstable they can't be flown by pilots. Perfect example is the FA-18 Hornet.

But think about it...
What if you had asked a century ago how someone would have felt traveling at 60 mph overland with oncoming traffic traveling in the opposite direction only a few feet away?

I'm more comfortable knowing a computer is in control, than living with the reality that on any given night, 1 out of every 3 drivers have been drinking.

 

[Michael0701]

hmmmm.... I knew someone would bring up the military. You adressed one of my points, that when a failure occurs, it's usually with catastrophic results. My cynicism kicks in and remembers a time where money didn't matter, it was always safety first (in the military of course). But in a profit driven auto manufacturing business, well,........ I'm a little concerned.

As far as redundancy, can you point me to a source for this? I haven't seen anything yet and would really like to see.

 

[seebs]

I would much rather have a (non-Microsoft) computer driving than drive myself, assuming it were remotely competently done. My reflexes are measured in tenths of seconds. Right there, the computer can save a few hundred thousand people a year.

 

[coastie]

I'm not sure about the safety while driving but if one of those cars gets in any sort of significant accident, it's totaled.

I recently went on a call where a Honda hybrid was involved in a collision with a ford probe.

The honda was totaled while the probe probably only had $1000 worth of damage. The big safety concern is with extrication. Since some of the hybrids have 300V batteries, this poses a risk to the drivers and passangers and even more so to the rescue personnel. There isn't really much uniformity to the construction except that it's a pretty safe bet that the wires are running along side the driver's side rocker panel.

This is particularly dangerous for rescue personnel since the rocker panel is a cutting point for a nose drop (used when driver is crushed or trapped by the steerign wheel).

Another problem is the inadequate training with the drivers. It isn't a very good sales practice to tell the potential driver that there is a distinct possibility that they will be electricuted if they exit the car after a collision.

Also, fire, medical and police units also should be concerned since the training for this car is so inept. There are books out about the construction for each vehicle, however, in many emergnecy situations, consulting a lengthy technical description isn't an efficient means to save lives.

Currently, at least for my department, if there is a hybrid vehicle MVA, it becomes a PUD matter do to the electrical risks. There are some plugs in some some of the models in the rear of the car that, when pulled, cut the energy supply. However, if there is a significant collision to the rear, there are a few more possible problems that occur.

One is that the only place that decals uniformly identify the car as a hybrid is on the rear. If the rear is smashed beyond recognition, there isn't a way for rescue crews to know that the car is a hybrid. Also, with the large battery used in the vehicles, one can expect a large amount of battery acid on the ground, thus making the scene a HAZMAT incident which changes the tactics of the rescue a great deal.

All of these issues together creates a great deal of uncertainty to an already perilous situation. I truly appreciate what vehicle manufacturers have done to help protect the environment, however, as with any new product, we have much to learn about safety hazards posed by this technology.

 

[Michael0701]

Oh man, I never even gave those things a thought. Add to that two 5,000psi hydrogen cylinders for the fuel cell cars, this adds a whole new dimension for our rescue workers.

 

[coastie]

Yesterday at 09:38 AM Michael0701 said this in Post #7 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=694781#post694781)

Oh man, I never even gave those things a thought. Add to that two 5,000psi hydrogen cylinders for the fuel cell cars, this adds a whole new dimension for our rescue workers.

The companies rarely consider those who will be rescuing people from their death traps.

Many car companies seem more concerned with molding plastic bumpers to make the car look nice than keeping the people riding around in these adult equivalents to lil' tikes buggies safe.

Why we haven't been able to create a heavy, safe, and fuel efficient car yet is a mystery. I suppose that weight has a lot to do with efficiency, but if they aren't concerned with weight, then the country should lower the speed limit to 40 mph.

I'm tired of seeing people get killed in cars that manufacturers claim are the safest in "their class". It's senseless, irresponsible and a heck of a heartache for the families of the deceased.