Question: Catholics

[Lynn73]

Where? Does it say that it's wrong for them to marry? What about "to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman her own husband?" Priests aren't immune to lust and fornication. The Bible says that it's good for a man to be celibate and unmarried so that he can concentrate on the Lord but if he behaves unseemly toward his virgin, they sin not, let them marry. I would think that it would be wrong to forbid them to marry. They have sexual desire just like everyone else. Wouldn't it be better to allow them to marry to avoid fornication instead of forbidding them and then they fall in love with someone and wind up committing fornication? And please don't try to tell me that that can't or hasn't happened.

1 Timothy 4:1-51 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. 4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: 5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

 

[Cat59]

Hi Lynn!

Priests are not forced or forbidden not to marry: they choose it just as I chose to forsake all others when I married my husband. There is a long period of preparation to be a priest, part of which is being about seeing if the celibate life is for you. I have several friends that found it wasn't and did not become priests..but several more who found it was for them.
I also have one friend who was an Anglican married priest and is now a Catholic married priest.

 

[Rising_Suns]

Lynn73,
as I said in another thread, Paul in 1st cor actually suggests that it is better NOT to marry:

"I should like you to be free of anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord. But a married man is anxious about the things of this world; how he may please his wife, and he is divided...."--1 cor 7:32

and a little further down.....

"..so then, the one who marries his virgin does well; the one who does not marry her will do better"--1 cor 7:38

Taking a vow of celibacy is a choice, and a discipline to becoming a priest. It is quite a feat for anyone to do, and it requires much prayer and discipline, and as evident by paul, is quite an honorable vocation. To anyone who is exploring celibacy, or who already are, I applaud you. It truly takes a heart of faith to renounce your earthly desire to be loved by another person so you can devote all your time and energy to God.

May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all.

 

[Benedicta00]

Lynn,

I ain't ever said that Jesus said it is wrong not to marry, just better not to marry.

Jesus asked the rich young man to be an apostle, to give it all up and follow him, he could not do that. Jesus said there are unics for the kingdom. Etc...

Matt. 19:11-12 - Jesus says celibacy is a gift from God and whoever can bear it should bear it. Jesus praises and recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church. Because celibacy is a gift from God, those who criticize the Church's practice of celibacy are criticizing God and this wonderful gift He bestows on His chosen ones.
Matt. 19:29 - Jesus says that whoever gives up children for the sake of His name will receive a hundred times more and will inherit eternal life. Jesus praises celibacy when it is done for the sake of His kingdom.
Matt. 22:30 - Jesus explains that in heaven there are no marriages. To bring about Jesus' kingdom on earth, priests live the heavenly consecration to God by not taking a wife in marriage. This way, priests are able to focus exclusively on the spiritual family, and not have any additional pressures of the biological family (which is for the vocation of marriage). This also makes it easier for priests to be transferred to different parishes where they are most needed without having to worry about the impact of their transfer on wife and children.
1 Cor 7:7 - Paul also acknowledges that celibacy is a gift from God and wishes that all were celibate like he is.
1 Cor. 7:32-33, 38 - Paul recommends celibacy for full-time ministers in the Church so that they are able to focus entirely upon God and building up His kingdom.
1 Tim. 3:2 - Paul instructs that bishops must be married only once. Many Protestants use this verse to prove that the Church's celibacy law is in error. But they are mistaken because this verse refers to bishops that were widowers. Paul is instructing that these widowers could not remarry. The verse also refers to those bishops who were currently married. They also could not remarry (in the Catholic Church's Eastern rite, priests are allowed to marry; celibacy is only a disciplinary rule for the clergy of the Roman rite). Therefore, this text has nothing to do with imposing a marriage requirement on becoming a bishop.
1 Tim. 4:3 - in this verse, Paul refers to deceitful doctrines that forbid marriage. Many non-Catholics also use this verse to impugn the Church's practice of celibacy. This is entirely misguided because the Catholic Church (unlike many Protestant churches) exalts marriage to a sacrament. In fact, marriage is elevated to a sacrament, but consecrated virginity is not. The Church declares marriage sacred, covenantal and lifegiving. Paul is referring to doctrines that forbid marriage and other goods when done outside the teaching of Christ.
1 Tim. 5:9-12 - Paul recommends that older widows take a pledge of celibacy. This was the beginning of women religious orders.
2 Tim. 2:3-4 - Paul instructs his bishop Timothy that no soldier on service gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim his to satisfy the One who enlisted him. Paul is using an analogy to describe the role of celibate priesthood in the Church.
Rev. 14:4 - unlike our sinful world of the flesh, in heaven, those consecrated to virginity are honored.
Isaiah 56:3-7 - the eunuchs who keep God's covenant will have a special place in the kingdom of heaven.
Jer. 16:1-4 - Jeremiah is told by God not to take a wife or have children.

 

[Rising_Suns]

good post shelb. where did you get the list of passages? any website I can check out?

 

[Rising_Suns]

oh nevermind. i found it. www.scripturecatholic.com

 

[BAChristian]

And the other thing we have to remember here as well is, "So what...if priests feel closer to God by giving up marriage and dedicating their lives to Him, then...what's the big deal?"

There sure isn't anything wrong with that.

 

[Fiat]

And the other thing we have to remember here as well is, "So what...if priests feel closer to God by giving up marriage and dedicating their lives to Him, then...what's the big deal?"

There sure isn't anything wrong with that.

Absolutely.......there is nothing wrong with that! Those who give up the desire of marriage/families for the dedication of priesthood are great devoted men. Praise God for their devotion to him.

 

[ps139]

Do you think if the Catholic Church allowed marriage of priest..... would this help the priesthood look more inviting to some considering it......would it help the priest shortage?

I think it would help the "priest shortage" but I think it would add less-effective priests. As Paul explained in Corinthians, unmarried clergy can devote all of their time to the service of the Lord, which is better than the "divided interests" he talks about. And Jesus did say that "whoever can accept this should accept it."

Also, I think the "I'd like to be a priest but I want to get married" issue is the result of our society and the sex that is everywhere. You can't even go into a supermarket without seeing magazine covers full of busty women, advertising "SEX SEX SEX." And I'm not talking about Playboy here, its Cosmopolitan and the rest of that ****. TV is the same way. "Sex in the City" etc... plus all the shows that imply that its normal to be in a sexually active relationship, married or not. So when the human brain is inundated with so much discussion of sex, its natural that sex will be on the mind more. And I don't think the Church should change its rules and cave in to the styles of the time. Who knows, we could be living in a Puritan style sociery in 200 years, and I actually think we will. In history, there have been cycles of moral breakdown, sexual promiscuity etc that have reached such a high level that people finally say "enough is enough" and change to really really strict rules. Compare Roman society in AD 100 and AD 500. Its a historical pattern. Then what should the Church do? Change back? No. I think Jesus and Paul made it clear enough as to what is desirable.

 

[ps139]

Where? Does it say that it's wrong for them to marry? What about "to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife and every woman her own husband?" Priests aren't immune to lust and fornication. The Bible says that it's good for a man to be celibate and unmarried so that he can concentrate on the Lord but if he behaves unseemly toward his virgin, they sin not, let them marry. I would think that it would be wrong to forbid them to marry. They have sexual desire just like everyone else. Wouldn't it be better to allow them to marry to avoid fornication instead of forbidding them and then they fall in love with someone and wind up committing fornication? And please don't try to tell me that that can't or hasn't happened.

Thats assuming that everybody has to act on these sexual desires. Jesus made it clear that if you can control yourself and live as a lifelong celibate, then it is the best thing to do. Sometimes I feel as if my posts are completely ignored. On the previous page I gave ample Scripture passages.

 

[PRMan]

Plus, "PK's" (Pastor's Kids) have a horrendous reputation in the Protestant church, which I take as proof of being neglected by their fathers.

PS. I'm not Catholic, but just thought I would share some evidence.

On the contrary, the well-known abuse cases against priests would argue that some of them should have chosen differently.

 

[ps139]

On the contrary, the well-known abuse cases against priests would argue that some of them should have chosen differently.

I can't agree with you more on that point. There are many priests in the USA who should not be priests. The American Catholic Church has to revise & toughen its standards, even if, God forbid!, the liberals are unhappy.

 

[Lynn73]

Thats assuming that everybody has to act on these sexual desires. Jesus made it clear that if you can control yourself and live as a lifelong celibate, then it is the best thing to do. Sometimes I feel as if my posts are completely ignored. On the previous page I gave ample Scripture passages.

No, I don't assume that everyone has to act on these desires, but many do. (even priests, I'll wager) The Bible also says that if a man behaves uncomly toward his virgin, let them marry, they sin not. To avoid fornication, let a man have a wife and a woman a husband. I don't see anything wrong with allowing the priests who desire to do so to marry, that's all. They shouldn't be forced to choose between a marriage and family and the priesthood when the scriptures don't demand that choice. It's the Catholic church that's forcing them to make the choice, not God. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Miss Shelby]

They shouldn't be forced to choose between a marriage and family and the priesthood when the scriptures don't demand that choice. It's the Catholic church that's forcing them to make the choice, not God. Just my humble opinion.

That may be your opinion, but I believe if you had more of an understanding of the priesthood you may change your mind. Priests are not forced into celibacy, they enter the seminary voluntarily and they know full well what they're getting into. Yes, there are those unrepentant wicked hearted priests who sin through the lusts of their flesh, just as there are protestant pastors who do that---but they do not make up the majority of the priesthood. If you asked an orthodox priest why he became a priest and whether or not he regretted not having a family, he would probably tell you that he felt called to the priesthood and not the sacramental life of marriage.

Also, there are plenty of orders within Catholicism, some that women are in, that require a vow of chastity. It's because they feel called to devote their life to God in a different way than getting married and having a family.

Michelle

 

[Benedicta00]

Plus, "PK's" (Pastor's Kids) have a horrendous reputation in the Protestant church, which I take as proof of being neglected by their fathers.

PS. I'm not Catholic, but just thought I would share some evidence.

On the contrary, the well-known abuse cases against priests would argue that some of them should have chosen differently.

What everybody in the free world needs to get a grip on is that abuse is going to occur EVERY WHERE in the universe because we ALL are FALLEN, so pastors and priest who do bad things is not a “Church” problem for either one of us, it is societies problem. There are freaks on the outside too.

Lynn,

Married priest do not work well in the Church for the simple reason they calling to serve God’s people in the catholic Church is a whole lot more demanding than a Protestant mister. They are literally on call 24/7 and they say mass everyday and they have to prepare to say mass everyday and on Sundays they have several masses in the morning and in the evenings, they have other pastoral matters they see to so it just would not be possible of fair to the wives and children, it is not a 9-5. Ask the wives of the priest who are married, the cross they carry.

 

[Rising_Suns]

they not only have to be well trained spiritually, but since they are running the whole church and every aspect about it, they must also have knowledge in leadership, economics, business, communication, etc. That is one thing I wish the church could work more on; is training their priests in a more complete manner.

 

[PRMan]

What everybody in the free world needs to get a grip on is that abuse is going to occur EVERY WHERE in the universe because we ALL are FALLEN, so pastors and priest who do bad things is not a “Church” problem for either one of us, it is societies problem. There are freaks on the outside too.

Lynn,

Married priest do not work well in the Church for the simple reason they calling to serve God’s people in the catholic Church is a whole lot more demanding than a Protestant mister. They are literally on call 24/7 and they say mass everyday and they have to prepare to say mass everyday and on Sundays they have several masses in the morning and in the evenings, they have other pastoral matters they see to so it just would not be possible of fair to the wives and children, it is not a 9-5. Ask the wives of the priest who are married, the cross they carry.

Agree with you and that was my point as well. It is not 9-5 for Protestant ministers either, hence the PK problem.

 

[BAChristian]

It is not 9-5 for Protestant ministers either...

That is very true.

 

[Fiat]

I think it would help the "priest shortage" but I think it would add less-effective priests. As Paul explained in Corinthians, unmarried clergy can devote all of their time to the service of the Lord, which is better than the "divided interests" he talks about. And Jesus did say that "whoever can accept this should accept it."

Also, I think the "I'd like to be a priest but I want to get married" issue is the result of our society and the sex that is everywhere. You can't even go into a supermarket without seeing magazine covers full of busty women, advertising "SEX SEX SEX." And I'm not talking about Playboy here, its Cosmopolitan and the rest of that ****. TV is the same way. "Sex in the City" etc... plus all the shows that imply that its normal to be in a sexually active relationship, married or not. So when the human brain is inundated with so much discussion of sex, its natural that sex will be on the mind more. And I don't think the Church should change its rules and cave in to the styles of the time. Who knows, we could be living in a Puritan style sociery in 200 years, and I actually think we will. In history, there have been cycles of moral breakdown, sexual promiscuity etc that have reached such a high level that people finally say "enough is enough" and change to really really strict rules. Compare Roman society in AD 100 and AD 500. Its a historical pattern. Then what should the Church do? Change back? No. I think Jesus and Paul made it clear enough as to what is desirable.

I agree that the Church should not change it's historical pattern. If the Lord calls you and you answer.....then he called you to abide by his rules. If you don't think you can fulfill his rules, than maybe a reconsideration of the call is in order?

 

[Benedicta00]

Agree with you and that was my point as well. It is not 9-5 for Protestant ministers either, hence the PK problem.

Right, I should not have made it sound as if their work is not demanding and I believe this is why the Church along with the bible says, it would be better if they weren't married, so the Church made it a discipline because they thought it would be best.

I guess what drives me crazy is that people think celibacy is the reason for the abuse in the Church and it is not because of that, how could it be? You have this thing happening in families outside the Church, with the same covering up where no one is looking out for the kids. It is a disorder and a crime; it is not because one can not be married. That is silly for people to think that. This is societies problem because we do not value children enough in every walk of life, not just in the Church. Shame on us, I think another ill of abortion where the message is kids don’t matter.

Alright, I’m done preaching.