Question: Catholics

[Wolseley]

Let's all be respectful here, folks, or Unca Wols will take severe action.

 

[Rising_Suns]

oh no, not the countdown!

 

[BAChristian]

I just disagree with it.

Yeah, we understand that...so what's your point?

We're happy you disagree. Good for you. So what are you trying to do here?

Ya know what I think...here, let me tell you what I think...I think that you are having doubts...you keep throwing this stuff out, and we're like, ok...soooo, your point is? And we keep telling you what we believe in, and you just keep throwing it back...so, what do you want us to tell you?

Like I've said...go do your research. This is getting annoying...

Wols, for the love of God, please start the countdown...

Man, I dig the countdown...LOL...

 

[Benedicta00]

So the wafer IS Jesus. Oookaaaay, if that's what you believe.

Well technically the belief is it is no longer a wafer, the substance changes while the accidence remain, so the host becomes the body and blood, soul and divinity of our lord Jesus Christ. see John 6 and the last supper.

When I take communion each week, the wafer and grape juice are symbols of and represent the body and blood of the Lord.

Yes, I know in Protestant Church's it is only a symbol, it is not the real presence, you do not have a valid ordained clergy to consecrate.

They don't become Jesus, I don't worship the wafer. I worship Christ.

I agree the wafer in Protestant Churches should not be worshipped because Christ is not truly present, the wafer in your Church does not become Jesus Christ, body blood soul and divinity.

But that's one of the differences between Catholics and Protestants.

Yup. It is. A one difference why I am Catholic and not Protestant.

It just sounds s weird to hear you say that you worship a wafer because it's Jesus.

I guess it is wired because you do not comprehend that it is not a wafer that we worship, it no longer remains a wafer, it becomes the body and blood of Christ by way of a miracle.

I know the whole transubstantiation theory so you don't have to explain it. I just disagree with it. The wafer is NOT Jesus to me.

The wafer isn't Jesus to me either, Jesus is Jesus to me and with all due respect, you do not know the doctrine of transubstantiation if you believe that the wafer is what we worship.

I would hate for those in this forum who are learning about Christianity to get this impression about Catholics because it is error about what we believe. We do not worship a wafer, we worship Jesus Christ and him alone. Read John 6 and the Last Supper discourse.

 

[Benedicta00]

I think BAChristian has good advice, research the Catholic Church without bias and learn about what we believe, do not mock what you do not understand. Make an educated and informed decision about our beliefs that are not based on myths, misconceptions and lies that you may have been indoctrinated to believe about us.

 

[Dawn Marie]

I'm Catholic... I don't believe the 'wafer' is Jesus... is that bad of me?

 

[Wolseley]

oh no, not the countdown!

Wols, for the love of God, please start the countdown...

Man, I dig the countdown...LOL...

LOL. My reputation precedes me.....

 

[Brax]

Like I've said...go do your research. This is getting annoying...

I dont think its annoying, sometimes just doing the research causes even more confusion, I know thats what happened with me. Besides no two people will look at data the same way. Isn't the whole purpose of this forum to ask questions. If you aere getting annoyed why bother trying to answer?
I have a question for one of the more patient members, what are the chances of there ever being married clergy within the church and why not allow them to be married to begin with?

 

[TheBear]

http://www.christianforums.com/t27964

 

[Rising_Suns]

hey brax,
the problem is when the same questions and misconceptions get thrown at you time and time again; accusations that can easily be addresses by just going over to the Catholic Q&A page. They are all answered there. If someone can't take a little time to do their own research before spitting out things they heard people say about the Catholic church, then I don't think that person is really interested in the truth anyway...just what they think they know what the truth is.

EDIT: thanks bear.

 

[Benedicta00]

I'm Catholic... I don't believe the 'wafer' is Jesus... is that bad of me?

Not really because I do not believe the wafer is Jesus either, I believe at the consecration Jesus becomes present to us body, blood, soul, and divinity just like he said he would in John 6 and at the Last Supper.

What happens is he takes the appearance of humble bread and wine so he can come to us and give us his very own divine life of grace to share with him, he binds himself to us and we have life because of him (see John 6).

So not believing in the real presence is not bad, it just means you are not catechized enough in this doctrine. Please take some time to learn about this doctrine because if you are a practicing Catholic it is a sin against faith to deny this, it is one thing to not know it, but another to out right deny it especially if you receive him at Mass. It is the heart of your worship and belief; if you attended Mass, it is the sacrament in which all the others spring fourth from.

 

[Dawn Marie]

Actually I never knew it until I read it on this forum.

But I don't go to Mass or anything anyway... well not regularly. And when I do, I don't go up for Communion... I get too nervous... (but that's a different story.)

I will read up on it, though.

 

[Benedicta00]

I dont think its annoying, sometimes just doing the research causes even more confusion, I know thats what happened with me.

Please visit OBOB.

Besides no two people will look at data the same way. Isn't the whole purpose of this forum to ask questions. If you aere getting annoyed why bother trying to answer?

OBOB would be the best place if you truly want to learn about Catholicism.

I have a question for one of the more patient members, what are the chances of there ever being married clergy within the church and why not allow them to be married to begin with?

Not being allowed to be married is a discipline in the Church, it was decided way back, I do not know when, Wolsely is the one who can give details but disciplines are put in place so that we can better serve our vocations, the Church believed that it would be best if the did not marry. We have the permanent deaconit for those who are married. They are not exactly like a priest but they can do a lot of the priestly duties accept for consecrating the Eucharist and hearing confessions.

I personally do not think they will be allowed to marry again, but I do not know that for sure, maybe when we have a new pope...?

 

[Benedicta00]

Actually I never knew it until I read it on this forum.

But I don't go to Mass or anything anyway... well not regularly. And when I do, I don't go up for Communion... I get too nervous... (but that's a different story.)

I will read up on it, though.

Bless you, Please do read up on it, you can do a search engine for the Catechism of the Catholic Church which usually will have a search engine of it's own and all you would have to do it put in the word "Eucharist."

 

[Rising_Suns]

XangelX,


Catechsim search engine.....
http://www.kofc.org/publications/cis/catechism/index.cfm

 

[ps139]

So the wafer IS Jesus. Oookaaaay, if that's what you believe. When I take communion each week, the wafer and grape juice are symbols of and represent the body and blood of the Lord. They don't become Jesus, I don't worship the wafer. I worship Christ. But that's one of the differences between Catholics and Protestants. It just sounds s weird to hear you say that you worship a wafer because it's Jesus. I know the whole transubstantiation theory so you don't have to explain it. I just disagree with it. The wafer is NOT Jesus to me.

Why do you think so many disciples left Jesus in John 6?

Jesus said, "I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his own flesh to eat?"
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eatthe flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink." (John 6:51-55)

On hearing it, many of his disciples said, "This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?" (John 6:60)

I think His words are clear enough. Real Food. Real Drink. Hard Teaching. Who Can Accept It? In verse 66 many disciples deserted Him. If they left because they thought that he was speaking literally, but He was really speaking metaphorically, He would have cleared up the confusion. But there was no confusion, He was speaking literally.

 

[ps139]

I have a question for one of the more patient members, what are the chances of there ever being married clergy within the church and why not allow them to be married to begin with?

As far as I know, there could be a married clergy, because I think clerical celibacy is a tradition (lowercase t ) just like not eating meat on Fridays, fasting before Communion etc. If I'm wrong someone let me know and I'll do some editing here .

Why not allow them to be married to begin with? Think of this situation: a marriage falls apart because the husband is a workaholic and has no time for the family. Priests are (or should be) "workaholics," and their boss is Jesus.

In Matt. 19, after Jesus explains the reasons for the Mosaic law on marriage and divorce, the disciples said (v10-12) "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry." Jesus replied "Not everyone can accept this word, but only to those to whom it has been given.......others have renounced marriage because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this [word] should accept it." I personally think that those "others" are men and women called to be priests and nuns.

But I think a better explanation, from Paul this time, is found in 1 Cor. 7:32-38
"I would like you to be free from concern.
An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs - how he can please the Lord.
But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world - how he can please his wife - and his interests are divided.
An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord's affairs: her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit.
But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of the world - how she can please her husband.
I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord."

Now, if he is not talking about why priests and nuns should be celibate, please tell me what he is talking about.

 

[Benedicta00]

ps139,

Thanks for pointing that out, there are some cases where married priests have been accepted in the Catholic priesthood, some Anglican married priest when converted to Catholicism was allowed. There are some circumstances but once a priest, you can not marry.

 

[Fiat]

ps139,

Thanks for pointing that out, there are some cases where married priests have been accepted in the Catholic priesthood, some Anglican married priest when converted to Catholicism was allowed. There are some circumstances but once a priest, you can not marry.

Do you think if the Catholic Church allowed marriage of priest..... would this help the priesthood look more inviting to some considering it......would it help the priest shortage?

 

[Benedicta00]

Do you think if the Catholic Church allowed marriage of priest..... would this help the priesthood look more inviting to some considering it......would it help the priest shortage?

I dunno, I don't give that any thought. I believe it is best that they remain unmarried because if they marry then it they won't lasts as priests or as husbands, they can not do both, one will have to play a back seat to the other and that is not fair to either vocation. Besides, Jesus in the gospels says that they should be unmarried.