Question about the parable of the sower.

[faroukfarouk]

Don't all believers bear some kind of fruit..even if it's just faith?

True believers do bear fruit; and John 15 has the Lord Jesus's lesson of abiding in the vine.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Again show me from the Bible where every believer bears fruit. Because The soil parable shows they do not.

Well, in the parable of the sower - explained in subsequent verses by the Lord - not all the types of ground represent true believers.

 

[d taylor]

Don't all believers bear some kind of fruit..even if it's just faith?

A believer is not guarantied to bear fruit again the parable of the soils speaks to this. The soils describe three types of believers. unfruitful, partial fruitful, and then the last soil that bears a lot of fruit.

 

[Jeshu]

Don't all believers bear some kind of fruit..even if it's just faith?

I agree believers always bear fruits because the H.S is at work in them. Not just faith, but love and hope as well, for these three always remain in a believers life, especially love. 1 Corinthians 13:13.

 

[d taylor]

Well, in the parable of the sower - explained in subsequent verses by the Lord - not all the types of ground represent true believers.

Show me where in Jesus explanation, He Jesus states these are not true believers.

 

[d taylor]

Only believers receive the word.

And that is stated in this parable of the three soils.

The only one that does not receive the word is the first soil. And it says of that soil, the first one, that the devil takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

 

[d taylor]

Do you think the people that fell on shallow dirt had their sins forgiven once and fell away or they never truly asked and weren't saved to begin with?

The Parable of the Four Soils: Do the Middle Two Soils Represent Believers or Unbelievers? – Matthew 13:20-22 | Grace Evangelical Society

Impossible Interpretation of the Parable of the Four Soils | Grace Evangelical Society

Grace in Focus

How Long Must You Believe To Be Saved?

 

[Tania11]

Only believers receive the word.

And that is stated in this parable of the three soils.

The only one that does not receive the word is the first soil. And it says of that soil, the first one, that the devil takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Not trying to argue. How do you know they had true saving faith and were not the kind that 1 John 2:19 speaks of?

 

[d taylor]

Not trying to argue. How do you know they had true saving faith and were not the kind that 1 John 2:19 speaks of?

Do you understand the verse you posted 1 John 2:19 is speaking about antichrist and not believers. Read the verse before 2:19 and antichrist are not believers.

 

[miamited]

Do you think the people that fell on shallow dirt had their sins forgiven once and fell away or they never truly asked and weren't saved to begin with?

Hi tania,

Good question. While you'll find that I'm not much in agreement with a lot of mainstream christianity on this issue, it will at least give you a reasonable answer to your question.

It is my understanding from the Scriptures that none of us are saved until we reach God's judgment day and He looks over the books and declares that we may enter into His rest. What we receive in this life is what Paul explained to us that we get. We get a guarantee, the indwelling Holy Spirit as a deposit that we will be saved on the day of God's judgment. However, in following along with the parable of the sower, we can grieve the Holy Spirit and we can forfeit that deposit.

I base this understanding on the words of Jesus, that whoever perseveres to the end, will be saved.

You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

For me, this seems to clearly tell us that we aren't saved yet. We are saved, having persevered to the end in faith and trust in God through Jesus, on the day of God's judgment. That is the 'end' referred to.

Jesus then repeats that claim later on in Matthew's account of Jesus' ministry.

...but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Further, just about every time the new covenant writers speak of 'being saved', it is proposed as a future tense event. It is often stated as 'will be saved'.

Ezekiel is warned by God that he must give the warning that God is giving him to the people. He then tells Ezekiel that if he warns someone and they don't listen to him, then they will die for their sin, but Ezekiel 'will be saved'.

In Amos we find the first claim that anyone calling on the name of the Lord, 'will be saved'. In both Matthew and Mark we find the admonition that I posted before with Jesus' final words to them being that they 'will be saved'. In Mark, while yet sometimes disputed, we find Jesus' words that only the one who is baptized and believes 'will be saved'. In fact, ten times outside of the gospels we find salvation mentioned as a future event.

Now, there are places where the new covenant Scriptures discuss this issue and it isn't clear that it is a future event, but I find the preponderance of the evidence to be that this idea we have that proclaiming faith in Jesus means that today we are saved, isn't really the whole truth of the matter. That day will have prepared us for our coming salvation, if we persevere throughout our life to the end with that faith. So, the seed on the thin dirt and the weedy dirt are people who professed a faith in Jesus, but they didn't persevere in that faith. In the end, on God's day of judgment, they were not saved.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

 

[Tania11]

@d taylor Oh shoot! I think I replied to the wrong person. Sorry I'm on my phone. I just want to delete this whole thread..

 

[faroukfarouk]

@Tania11 Romans 8.38-39 is very assuring to the true believer. John's First Epistle has a lot about the assurance and security of the believer in God's Son.

 

[Tania11]

@Tania11 Romans 8.38-39 is very assuring to the true believer. John's First Epistle has a lot about the assurance and security of the believer in God's Son.

THAT IS a good verse. I want to use that as my morning verse.

I think I want that on the "tattoo I'm going to get" The dove would have to be a big fat one to fit everything in

 

[Hammster]

Again show me from the Bible where every believer bears fruit. Because The soil parable shows they do not.

Actually, it doesn’t. There’s no salvation with fruit bearing. We can look at John 15 where Jesus talks about those who bear fruit are pruned so that they bear more fruit. We can look at John 10 where Jesus is clear that His sheep hear His voice and follow. There are many more examples.

 

[Hammster]

A believer is not guarantied to bear fruit again the parable of the soils speaks to this. The soils describe three types of believers. unfruitful, partial fruitful, and then the last soil that bears a lot of fruit.

There’s no partial fruitful.

 

[d taylor]

Actually, it doesn’t. There’s no salvation with fruit bearing. We can look at John 15 where Jesus talks about those who bear fruit are pruned so that they bear more fruit. We can look at John 10 where Jesus is clear that His sheep hear His voice and follow. There are many more examples.

Explain how a unbeliever can be rightly called a branch in Jesus, in John 15

 

[faroukfarouk]

THAT IS a good verse. I want to use that as my morning verse.

@Tania11 It so very reassuring, isn't it?

 

[d taylor]

There’s no partial fruitful.

Right in the Bible it is stated the believer becomes unfruitful. To become unfruitful they had to at one time be fruitful.

deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.

 

[Hammster]

Explain how a unbeliever can be rightly called a branch in Jesus, in John 15

They are unfruitful branches. The ones that bear fruit bear more fruit.

 

[d taylor]

They are unfruitful branches. The ones that bear fruit bear more fruit.

So unbelievers are in Jesus and are clean.