Question about salvation/assurance

[hawkmoon269]

I'm new to calvinism/reformed theology, and I have a question...

I'm sure that most people from time to time question their salvation. Usually they can come to the conclusion, "I know I am saved because I did what was required, etc." - i.e. I confessed my sins/turned away from them, accepted the offer of salvation and so forth. Now, in light of the fact that I actually did nothing whatsoever to gain salvation - it was all God and his grace (which I totally believe) - if I am ever to doubt my salvation, what is my assurance? Or, how do I know I am one of the elect, as there are surely people who think they are but aren't?

Honest question, not bait. Thanks.

--Rob

 

[mlqurgw]

I'm new to calvinism/reformed theology, and I have a question...

I'm sure that most people from time to time question their salvation. Usually they can come to the conclusion, "I know I am saved because I did what was required, etc." - i.e. I confessed my sins/turned away from them, accepted the offer of salvation and so forth. Now, in light of the fact that I actually did nothing whatsoever to gain salvation - it was all God and his grace (which I totally believe) - if I am ever to doubt my salvation, what is my assurance? Or, how do I know I am one of the elect, as there are surely people who think they are but aren't?

Honest question, not bait. Thanks.

--Rob

Hello Rob and welcome to truth and to these boards. Assurance doesn't come to the believer because of what we do or what we feel but it is rooted in the faithfulness of God. I am saved even though I sometimes don't feel like it. I have assurance because God says that if I trust His Son I am saved. He doesn't say that I must have a great deal of faith but simply that I must have faith. I do believe on Christ, though not like I should, therefore God has saved me. He does not lie nor does He go back on His word. If you belive you are elect. It is that simple. Paul did give us a list of proofs though in 1Thess. 1: 4-10:

1Th 1:4 Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God.
1Th 1:5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
1Th 1:6 And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost:
1Th 1:7 So that ye were ensamples to all that believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
1Th 1:8 For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
1Th 1:9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

 

[kw5kw]

Romans Chapter Eight is full of the theology about salvation. Here are but a few of the verses that can fill you with reassurance that God is with you always.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
Rom 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Rom 8:31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[UMP]

I'm new to calvinism/reformed theology, and I have a question...

I'm sure that most people from time to time question their salvation. Usually they can come to the conclusion, "I know I am saved because I did what was required, etc." - i.e. I confessed my sins/turned away from them, accepted the offer of salvation and so forth. Now, in light of the fact that I actually did nothing whatsoever to gain salvation - it was all God and his grace (which I totally believe) - if I am ever to doubt my salvation, what is my assurance? Or, how do I know I am one of the elect, as there are surely people who think they are but aren't?

Honest question, not bait. Thanks.

--Rob

2 Peter 1:
[10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[11] For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

What are "these things" "if ye do" that Peter is talking about?

2 Peter 1
[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
[6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
[7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
[8] For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[9] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


However, I find myself barren in many of these areas, I am full of sin, Where I would do good, I do evil, I am the "chief of sinners" , as it were.
Yet Peter says that it is God that has given unto us "all things that pertain unto life and godliness" :

2 Peter 1:
[3] According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
[4] Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

That still puts me between a rock and a hard place because of my perceived lack of fruit. God makes me willing, gives me all things pertaining to godliness yet I must diligently seek him, I must give "diligence to make my calling and election sure"

Philip 2:
[13] For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Yet:

Hebrews 11:
[6] But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Yet faith is the gift of God and God will finish what HE started:

Philip 1:
[6] Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

It's all God, yet it's me too, but not really, if you get my drift


My only recommendation is to hold to Christ and Him alone. I don't understand much, but by the grace of God I hold onto the leg of Christ like a little child and WON'T LET GO, no matter what !!!!!
Why? Because Christ is ALL we have and nothing else.

 

[hawkmoon269]

Wow. Thanks a lot, guys - that all helps a whole lot. In addition to that, I did some thinking & praying yesterday & the thing about the fruits of the Spirit kept coming up with me. Not to say that I am perfect in those fruits, but since Christ found me I have grown in those areas... so I am bearing fruit in one degree or another.

Thanks again... I have no doubts now. One of my main problems, I see now, has been obedience...

--Rob

 

[mlqurgw]

Wow. Thanks a lot, guys - that all helps a whole lot. In addition to that, I did some thinking & praying yesterday & the thing about the fruits of the Spirit kept coming up with me. Not to say that I am perfect in those fruits, but since Christ found me I have grown in those areas... so I am bearing fruit in one degree or another.

Thanks again... I have no doubts now. One of my main problems, I see now, has been obedience...

--Rob

Seek to honor Christ in everything you do but don't beat yourself up when you fall. We all fall but He is faithful to pick us up and renew the love of God that is shed abroad in our hearts.

 

[UMP]

One of my main problems, I see now, has been obedience...

--Rob

Just remember that even the obedience is from God, all of it.

John 15:
[5] I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

1 Corinthians 15:
[10] But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.

In other words, admittance of total inability is necessary for TRUE obedience, in Christ (ONLY)

 

[mlqurgw]

as there are surely people who think they are but aren't?

I did want to comment on this statement if I might. One of the many things that strikes me in the Scriptures is the fact that God continually calls Himself thy God. I can rejoice in the truth that He is your God and I can rejoice in that He is the God of all the elect but what really gives me joy unseakable and full of glory is that He is my God.

 

[UMP]

I did want to comment on this statement if I might. One of the many things that strikes me in the Scriptures is the fact that God continually calls Himself thy God. I can rejoice in the truth that He is your God and I can rejoice in that He is the God of all the elect but what really gives me joy unseakable and full of glory is that He is my God.

YES, indeed !
However, as shown, there are some who think they are that are not:

Matthew 7:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Also notice those that are reply like this:

Matthew 25:
[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

Not saying your wrong, just saying that "hawkmoon"'s statement is also true...."as there are surely people who think they are but aren't?"

 

[mlqurgw]

YES, indeed !
However, as shown, there are some who think they are that are not:

Matthew 7:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Also notice those that are reply like this:

Matthew 25:
[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

Not saying your wrong, just saying that "hawkmoon"'s statement is also true...."as there are surely people who think they are but aren't?"

You are correct and I do surely believe that there are many who think they are elect but aren't. That is clear from Scripture. Still it is my concern to comfort the people of God and while seeking to tear down every wall of false faith and self-righteousness point people to Christ alone. Whether they are actually elect or not is not really my concern but Christ's. This makes the preaching of the whole council of God in Christ all the more urgent, for me at least. I write this not as a rebuttal to you but just to clarify my view.

BTW; I am sooo looking forward to golf with you.

 

[hawkmoon269]

However, as shown, there are some who think they are that are not:

Matthew 7:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Also notice those that are reply like this:

Matthew 25:
[37] Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[38] When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[39] Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

That's helpful, as well... I've heard that passage many, many times. Just noticed the contrast of the replies... they are quite different, when you think about it. Good one.

 

[heymikey80]

Wow. Thanks a lot, guys - that all helps a whole lot. In addition to that, I did some thinking & praying yesterday & the thing about the fruits of the Spirit kept coming up with me. Not to say that I am perfect in those fruits, but since Christ found me I have grown in those areas... so I am bearing fruit in one degree or another.

Thanks again... I have no doubts now. One of my main problems, I see now, has been obedience...

--Rob

That's helpful [Mt 25:37-39, 7:21-22], as well... I've heard that passage many, many times. Just noticed the contrast of the replies... they are quite different, when you think about it. Good one.

I could offer you a perplexing response right here, but I feel compelled to offer you the Calvinistic solution to the paradox before I do. ok? So ... this will be a bit backward.

You've seen how you are assured when you fall that you shall still stand before the Judgement Throne in righteousness (2 Pt 1:3-4, Rom 8:35-39 e.g., but the thread has many, many more). This is no doubt true, and when you rely on Christ the battle is truly won.

It's just not over. You have a life to live -- as Rom 8:35-39 says your life will not overwhelm this gift of righteousness. It can't, God's too good at this.

But there's always that nagging question, "Did I sin too much?" Or it's counterpoint, "I can't sin too much." Both are deceptive questions. Christ's work is what's relevant, not sin. And so we look for the greater, "Am I relying on Christ in the way that saves me?"

So Scripture calls people to make an accounting. Can you see the Spirit's working out in your life? If you can, you have cause to say, "See, not me, but my God's Spirit is doing things that I can't attribute to myself."

How that's done is by a number of checks. But the knee-jerk human reaction is to try to "do better next time" if we think we fail. The reaction of the Spirit is to honestly admit the wrong we see, that we continue to sin (1 Jn 1:6,8-10), but to honestly admit the Spirit we see growing in our midst as well (1 Jn 1:7,2:3). First John has a number of different metrics for helping us to see the Spirit at work in us. They're calibrated to showing us, they're how we "know we know" (1 Jn 2:3). They are not performance-based, "Do this and live". They're knowledge based, "you see the Spirit's effect, so you know He's at work."

This is hotly argued in many other theologies. I find 1 John can be read this way, though.

 

[FLA2760]

Hi
Chist is the Author and FINISHER of our faith(Heb12:2) Prasie God! Read Eph. 2: 8 ,9 and John 5:24
"Wherefore He is Able also TO SAVE THEM TO THE UTTERMOST(Completly and Forever) that come unto God by Him(Jesus) , seeing He ever liveth to make INTERCESSION for them. (Heb 7:25)
Christ is our atoning sacrifice that died in our place (in-STEAD) of us. Crhist's substitutionary death on the cross saves us and His office as our High Preist and Intercessor keeps us! I have attached a poem by Martha Snell Nicolson that illustrates this beautifully. God Bless.

I SINNED. AND STRAIGHTWAY, POSTHASTE
SATAN FLEW BEFORE THE PRESENCE OF THE
MOST HIGH GOD, AND MADE A RAILING
ACCUSATION THERE. HE SAID, "THIS SOUL,
THIS THING OF CLAY AND SOD, HAS SINNED.
'TIS, TRUE THAT HE HAS NAMED THY NAME,
BUT I DEMAND HIS DEATH, FOR THOU HAST
SAID, 'THE SOUL THAT SINNETH, IT SHALL
DIE. 'SHALL NOT THY SENTENCE BE
FULLFILLED? IS JUSTICE DEAD? SEND NOW
THIS WRETCHED SINNER TO HIS DOOM.
WHAT OTHER THING CAN RIGHTEOUS RULER
DO? AND THUS HE DID ACCUSE ME DAY AND
NIGHT, AND EVERY WORD HE SPOKE, OH GOD,
WAS TRUE! THEN QUICKLY ONE ROSE UP
FROM GOD'S RIGHT HAND, BEFORE WHOSE
GLORY ANGELS VEILED THEIR EYES,
HE SPOKE, "EACH JOT AND TITTLE OF THE
LAW MUST BE FULFILLED; THE GUILTY
SINNER DIES! BUT WAIT--SUPPOSE HIS
GUILT WERE ALL TRANFERRED TO ME,
AND THAT I PAID HIS PENALTY!
BEHOLD MY HANDS, MY SIDE, MY FEET!
ONE DAY I WAS MADE SIN FOR HIM,
AND DIED THAT HE MIGHT BE PRESENTED
FAULTLESS, AT THEY THRONE!"
AND SATAN FLED AWAY. FULL WELL HE KNEW
THAT HE COULD NOT PREVAIL AGAINST SUCH
LOVE, FOR EVERY WORD MY DEAR LORD
WAS TRUE!

God

 

[Rick Otto]

Ya got me right down to my jots & tittles!

 

[Rhetor]

Amen to that, FLA. I doubt my salvation often, and I am helpless in saving myself, but in the end, if God wants to save he will, and so I can just hope he shall, and know that he is merciful.